Great new debate forum

[OnTheLeft.org]

Hi, everyone!

I'd like to invite people to come participate at www.OnTheLeft.org.Â*Â*We are a left-leaning forum, however all political affiliations are more than welcome.Â*Â*:) Feel free to stop by and join in our discussions and debates.

[Stoner]

Wow, that seems like a great place not to go to.

[OnTheLeft.org]

Wow, that seems like a great place not to go to.
What would you change, Stoner?

[Stoner]

What would you change, Stoner?


The posters.

[OnTheLeft.org]

What would you change, Stoner?


The posters.
LOL Sounds to me like it's not the forum for you. ;)

[bobbylien]

I don't know why anyone from another party would want to join a liberal forum. A mix like DF is the only way to go.
Its one of those places that the incoherent liberals go to give themselves a pat on the back and bitch without anyone to tell them that they might be wrong.

[OnTheLeft.org]

I don't know why anyone from another party would want to join a liberal forum. A mix like DF is the only way to go.
Its one of those places that the incoherent liberals go to give themselves a pat on the back and bitch without anyone to tell them that they might be wrong.
There's a mix there, too.Â*Â*We have several conservatives and libertarians there who are regulars.Â*Â*

I certainly don't mind if someone tells me why they think I'm wrong.....as long as they back their viewpoints up with rational statements and sources.Â*Â*I tend to feel it takes effort and input from both sides to make this country work.

[Mayberry]

Just the title makes me say "no thanks".

[OnTheLeft.org]

Just the title makes me say "no thanks".
If you choose to judge a book by it's cover, that's your right. Whatever.....:rolleyes:

[Stoner]

I've read quite a few posts from his "debate site".

Basically it's just a bunch of left-wing extremists bashing Bush in every thread. Not a whole lot of debating.

[OnTheLeft.org]

I've read quite a few posts from his "debate site".

Basically it's just a bunch of left-wing extremists bashing Bush in every thread.Â*Â*Not a whole lot of debating.
First of all, I'm female.

Secondly, there's a great deal to criticize this administration for. Do you think Bush is doing a heckuva job? If so, most Republicans don't even agree with you these days.

I'd take Dubya's daddy back in a heartbeat over this guy.

[Not Prince Hamlet]

What constitutes "extremist" in your mind? They seem to have a pretty diverse opinion set: some libertarians, some liberals, and even a handful of conservatives. What about them strikes you as extremist, other than that they, like most Americans (http://www.usatoday.com/news/graphics/presidential_approval/flash.htm), don't like Bush?

Jeff

[Mayberry]

like most Americans, don't like Bush?
He is still the president, and deserves some respect. Right or wrong, he has stood by his beliefs, and brushed off his detractors. That's a lot more than you can say about a lot of left wing flip-floppers.

[Not Prince Hamlet]

You could say the same thing about any two-bit despot: that they have stood by their beliefs and brushed off their detractors. That's a lot more than you can say about a lot of right wing flip-floppers, too.

Jeff

[Mayberry]

You could say the same thing about any two-bit despot You have the gall to compare our President to the likes of Castro or Saddam? These monsters were not elected as our President was. Yes, there are some right wing flip-floppers as well, but no one seems to remember that a lot of Democrats voted to go to war as well.

[Not Prince Hamlet]

Yes, I do have the necessary gall to compare him to Castro and Saddam. And so should you.

Actually, the comparison breaks down if you dig deeper. Neither Castro nor Saddam Hussein are responsible for the deaths of as many innocent people as Bush. So really, it's not fair to either Castro or Saddam Hussein to compare them to this monster.

And no, to answer the straw man you're almost certainly going to spew next, I don't like either Castro or Saddam Hussein. I just like Bush less, which should give you an idea of how little respect I have for Bush.

Oh, and actually, to my knowledge NO democrats voted to go to war. They voted for a resolution authorizing the use of force against Saddam Hussein PROVIDED THAT Bush took a number of steps first, such as getting a second United Nations resolution first.

He didn't take those steps.

That's an important distinction that seems to be conveniently forgotten by those on the right who want to make those on the left look like flip-floppers.

Jeff

[Mayberry]

They voted for a resolution authorizing the use of force against Saddam Hussein PROVIDED THAT Bush took a number of steps first, such as getting a second United Nations resolution first. Oh? Then why does Hillary say she made a mistake voting for the war? You know, I really don't care for Bush either, especially due to his lax standing on immigration, but give him a little credit for doing what he believes to be right. Personally, I would have bombed Afganistan and Iraq until they resembled the surface of a golf ball from the beginning, but Bush chose the high road of using ground forces to avoid civilian casualties. Of course this strategy has backfired to a certain degree, mostly due to the impatience of the "gotta have it now" mentality of most people today. America grew weary of fighting in 1945 as well. So we ended the war quickly, and victoriously. Would you like to do that now? The troops could come home next week, right before we turned Iraq into a sheet of glass. Defeat is not an option here.

[Stoner]

Here's the typical debate you'll find on that lib website.

Lib extremist #1 - I hate Bush.

Lib extremist #2 - I hate Bush more.

Lib extremist #1 - Nuh uh, I hate him more.

Lib extremist #2 - No way.Â*Â*I hate him more.

Lib extremist #1 - You're full of shit.Â*Â*I hate him more.

Lib extremist #2 - No way, dude.Â*Â*I definitly hate him more.

Lib extremist #1 - Go to Hell.Â*Â*There is no way someone hates Bush more than me.

Lib extremist #2 - F*ck you.Â*Â*If you can't see I hate him more you are a hopeless cause.

Lib extremist #1 - Go to Hell, bitch.Â*Â*No one hates Bush more than me.

Lib extremist #2 - You are wrong.Â*Â*I hate him more.Â*Â*I've been hating him since God created earth the Big Bang.

Lib extremist #1 - Bush wasn't even alive back then you liar!

Lib extremist #2 - Look.Â*Â*Let's just put all this bickering behind us and go make up some more Karl Rove jokes.

Lib extremist #1 - Deal.

[Buck Laser]

Personally, I would have bombed Afganistan and Iraq until they resembled the surface of a golf ball from the beginning, but Bush chose the high road of using ground forces to avoid civilian casualties. Of course this strategy has backfired to a certain degree, mostly due to the impatience of the "gotta have it now" mentality of most people today. America grew weary of fighting in 1945 as well. So we ended the war quickly, and victoriously. Would you like to do that now? The troops could come home next week, right before we turned Iraq into a sheet of glass. Defeat is not an option here.

Are you actually suggesting that we should consider dropping a nuke in the Mideast? That just beggars belief. Do you have any IDEA what kind of shitstorm that would cause?[/b]

[Mayberry]

Do you have any IDEA what kind of shitstorm that would cause? Why yes. There would be a huge mushroom cloud, intense heat...... Oh yeah, and the rest of the world would hate us. Oh, wait, they already do. I'm not really advocating using nuclear weapons, just trying to demonstrate that the only way to end this war quickly is to step things up exponentially. The surge is all good, but should be multiplied by 10 at least. Unfortunately, we don't have that many soldiers, and the rest of the world is too chicken sh!t to pitch in and help.

[Not Prince Hamlet]

Oh? Then why does Hillary say she made a mistake voting for the war? You know, I really don't care for Bush either, especially due to his lax standing on immigration, but give him a little credit for doing what he believes to be right. Personally, I would have bombed Afganistan and Iraq until they resembled the surface of a golf ball from the beginning, but Bush chose the high road of using ground forces to avoid civilian casualties. Of course this strategy has backfired to a certain degree, mostly due to the impatience of the "gotta have it now" mentality of most people today. America grew weary of fighting in 1945 as well. So we ended the war quickly, and victoriously. Would you like to do that now? The troops could come home next week, right before we turned Iraq into a sheet of glass. Defeat is not an option here.


No, "let's just keep killing our soldiers for a war we can't win" is not an option here.

Look, I know you want a victory in Iraq. So do I. But I also want Nicole Kidman to beg to be my love slave, and thus, I've learned the hard way that sometimes wanting something does not make that thing a a possibility.

At this point, I think the only reason we're still in Iraq is because many people just can't stomach the idea that we've lost. It IS a bitter pill to swallow, but unlike with most pills, if you refuse to swallow this one, you're not killing yourself, you're killing our soldiers. How many more soldiers have to die for our ego?

Pretty much every sane person has come to the conclusion that we can not win in Iraq by military force alone. Have you read the bipartisan Baker-Hamilton report (http://www.usip.org/isg/iraq_study_group_report/report/1206/iraq_study_group_report.pdf)? Or is James Baker III, the former Chief of Staff and Secretary of the Treasury under Reagan and Secretay of State under H. W. Bush, a left-wing surrender monkey, too?

We were all hoping and praying that Bush would take that proposal to heart. He didn't. He pretty much ignored it and continued along the same path.

Anyway, I'm not going to debate this any further here. If you want to thrash me within an inch of my life with your vice-like logic, do it at the site OnTheLeft.org (http://www.ontheleft.org/forums) posted. If you think we're a bunch of liberal kooks there, this is your big opportunity to set us straight. But if you do, be prepared to have solid facts at your disposal because be assured, the posters there will.

Jeff

[Stoner]

ROFLMAO.

Was that kid serious?

[Mayberry]

"let's just keep killing our soldiers for a war we can't win" is not an option here.
"Can't" is not in the American vocabulary. The war is winnable, just untie the military's hands and let them do their damned job. The "can't" attitude is the only thing standing in our way.

[Mayberry]

ROFLMAO.
Huh?

[Buck Laser]

"let's just keep killing our soldiers for a war we can't win" is not an option here.
"Can't" is not in the American vocabulary. The war is winnable, just untie the military's hands and let them do their damned job. The "can't" attitude is the only thing standing in our way.

Or maybe that and a few well-placed nukes, eh?

[Mayberry]

Or maybe that and a few well-placed nukes, eh?

:D

[lily]

"Can't" is not in the American vocabulary. The war is winnable, just untie the military's hands and let them do their damned job. The "can't" attitude is the only thing standing in our way.


I'll agree with you, this war is winable, but not under this president. He's admitted as much when he said it's up to the next president.

I'm curious, just how are the military's hands tied?

[BoogyMan]

I'll agree with you, this war is winable, but not under this president. He's admitted as much when he said it's up to the next president.


That comment doesn't mean what you are twisting it to mean, it means that the work will not have ended before the end of his presidency.

[lily]

If you say so it must be true, Boogy.

[Stoner]

That comment doesn't mean what you are twisting it to mean, it means that the work will not have ended before the end of his presidency.


You mean we have libs on here that twist the words of the POTUS to attempt to show him in a bad way?

Nooooooooooooooooooooooo!!!!!Â*Â*Surly not!!!!!Â*Â*Say it isn't so, Boog!!!!!

And libs wonder why we never take them seriously.

[Buck Laser]

I'll agree with you, this war is winable, but not under this president. He's admitted as much when he said it's up to the next president.


That comment doesn't mean what you are twisting it to mean, it means that the work will not have ended before the end of his presidency.

No, I think Lily got it exactly right. Dubya may not have intended it that way, but that's what's happened.

[lily]

That comment doesn't mean what you are twisting it to mean, it means that the work will not have ended before the end of his presidency.


You mean we have libs on here that twist the words of the POTUS to attempt to show him in a bad way?

Nooooooooooooooooooooooo!!!!!Â*Â*Surly not!!!!!Â*Â*Say it isn't so, Boog!!!!!

And libs wonder why we never take them seriously.


Stoner, he has screwed up since day one.......how else could some one take that statement? There is no twist about it. Might be the first honet thing he's said about this war, other than "mistakes were made".

[Stoner]

Stoner, he has screwed up since day one.......how else could some one take that statement? There is no twist about it. Might be the first honet thing he's said about this war, other than "mistakes were made".


Uh huh. Suuuuure. I decided to use your own words for a response.

If you say so it must be true

[Not Prince Hamlet]

No, we don't wonder why you don't take us seriously. We know you guys never made it past third grade and can't comprehend any kind of a nuanced argument. :-p

Jeff

[Stoner]

No, we don't wonder why you don't take us seriously. We know you guys never made it past third grade and can't comprehend any kind of a nuanced argument

Actually the reason we don't take you seriously is because you never do what you say you're going to. For example here's a quote you made earlier in this thread.


Anyway, I'm not going to debate this any further here

But yet here you are still whining debating. Are there any libs left who are true to their word?

[Not Prince Hamlet]

I'm not debating; I'm insulting you. There's a difference! LOL

Jeff

[bobbylien]

Oh? Then why does Hillary say she made a mistake voting for the war? You know, I really don't care for Bush either, especially due to his lax standing on immigration, but give him a little credit for doing what he believes to be right.

Hitler believed he was doing the right thing too.

[OnTheLeft.org]

Do you have any IDEA what kind of shitstorm that would cause? Why yes. There would be a huge mushroom cloud, intense heat...... Oh yeah, and the rest of the world would hate us. Oh, wait, they already do. I'm not really advocating using nuclear weapons, just trying to demonstrate that the only way to end this war quickly is to step things up exponentially. The surge is all good, but should be multiplied by 10 at least. Unfortunately, we don't have that many soldiers, and the rest of the world is too chicken sh!t to pitch in and help.
The rest of the world doesn't believe in being the planet police.Â*Â*They mind their own business.Â*Â*Novel thought, I realize.Â*Â*We shouldn't even be in Iraq.Â*Â*If we had stayed in Afghanistan and captured Osama (remember him?), Bush might have earned some credibility.Â*Â*Instead he chose to bomb the crap out of a country that never attacked us based on lies and distorted intel and put our next two generations into mega-debt.Â*Â*Heckuva job, Dubya.

[Buck Laser]

I'm not debating; I'm insulting you. There's a difference! LOL

Jeff


Stoner is permanently soused, so insulting him is bootless and fruitless.

[Not Prince Hamlet]

... but still fun!

[OnTheLeft.org]

Bumpity-bump. :D

[Mayberry]

Bumpity-bump. Sounds of crickets chirping...... We like it here.

[Not Prince Hamlet]

And WE like you here, too. :)

[lily]

And WE like you here, too. :)



.....and I like it when you come and visit!

[Not Prince Hamlet]

Woman, for this be all thy sins forgiven thee!

Jeff

[lily]

lol........How Shakespearian. I had to listen to my grand daughter complain for an hour about Romeo and Juliet this afternoon.

Anyways, good to have you here.

[Not Prince Hamlet]

Tell her to get a hold of The Reduced Shakespeare Company Radio Show (volume 1), in which they do an extremely irreverent send up of Romeo and Juliet. (It can be downloaded at http://www.audible.com/adbl/site/products/ProductDetail.jsp?productID=PF_LAFF_000025&BV_UseBVCookie=Yes)

Jeff

[lily]

Trust me, as much as she's complaining I don't even think comedy will help. I think Shakespeare is wasted on 15 year olds. I know I didn't appreciate it until I was older.

[Alonzo]

I remember in high school I had a teacher who complained about having to teach shakespeare, saying how even he didn't like it. Probably not the most effective method of teaching.

I've never been a fan of reading shakespeare, but some of the movies aren't bad. Merchant of Venice (the recent one) was great.

[Not Prince Hamlet]

Yes, as was Luhrman's "Romeo + Juliet", the Zefirelli (sp?) "Hamlet", and Brannagh's "Much Ado About Nothing" and "Henry V".

But yes, I didn't learn to appreciate Shakespeare until I was older, too. Oh well. :)

Jeff

[lily]

I remember in high school I had a teacher who complained about having to teach shakespeare, saying how even he didn't like it. Probably not the most effective method of teaching.

I agree, but one thing my grand daughter did mention was the teacher was trying to show them how to read between the lines to see the "dirty" humor.......and even that didn't work!

I've never been a fan of reading shakespeare, but some of the movies aren't bad. Merchant of Venice (the recent one) was great.
I liked the one Pacino did explaing it.

[Not Prince Hamlet]

Yeah, I think that one was "Looking for Richard", and I agree that it was excellent. Richard III has always been one of my favorite of the Bard's plays.

Jeff

[lily]

Not one of my favorites, but he sure did make it more interesting.

DOH.......It just clicked......your "name".

[Not Prince Hamlet]

Actually, my "name" has very little to do with Shakespeare. At least, not directly.... ;)

Jeff

[lily]

I think there's a story there.

[Not Prince Hamlet]

No, but there is a poem there. ;)

[micfranklin]

Hey dude, I'll join your forum and regularly contribute if you do the same for my own forum....

http://politicalwarfare.boardsmessage.com

[lily]

No, but there is a poem there. ;)



LOL

Venture out on a couple of other threads and get your feet wet.
I think I know you from another site and I liked what I read there.;)

[Not Prince Hamlet]

I'll look around when I get the chance. I've been insanely busy recently, what with my job, my training, and now my new board, but this place looks like fun. :)

Where do you think you know me from?

Jeff

[lily]

I'll look around when I get the chance. I've been insanely busy recently, what with my job, my training, and now my new board, but this place looks like fun. :)

Ok, sounds fair. If you give us a chance, I'll give you the same.

Where do you think you know me from?

The "old forum", I don't think there are too many Not Prince Hamlets running around. I posted there a few times.

Â*Â*

[OnTheLeft.org]

Feel free to come visit us at OnTheLeft, Lilly! :) You're always welcome.

[Not Prince Hamlet]

Yes, particularly since we could use a few more Independents to round out our selection. ;)

Jeff