IGNORING THE POWELL DOCTRINE

[rastaman]

Why will the Bush Admin. lose the Iraq War? Bush went in to Iraq without Overwhelming Force, a game plan to win the PEACE" and w/o an Exit Strategy. Bush also did not listen to his Generals. Instead of adhering to the "POWELL DOCTRINE" (like his Father did during the first gulf war), this President decided to listen to Rumsfeld and the "Project for a New American Century" think tank pundits.

Powell Doctrine and Consequences to Ignore

1.) Going in with overwhelming force allows you to secure the country and key strategic areas. The American military made a rush (beeline) to capture Baghdad leaving behind ammo depots; which were raided by insurgents to make bombs (IED's) which have killed and permanently maimed over 15,000 service members.

2. Having a Plan for the Peace; allows for plans to put the Iraqi people back to work rebuilding their own country and infrastructure. Instead the jobs for rebuilding Iraq went to American contractors (20,000). Leaving millions of Iraqi men and women un-employed. If you gainfully employ the masses they are unlikely to get into mischief---which usually involve criminal behavior and murder. A plan for peace dis-allows chaos to get a firm grip in the after math of a war.

3. Having an exit Strategy; avoids the trap of appearing as an occupying force. As occupiers you loose the support and trust of the people you are trying to protect. Lack of an exit strategy puts our soldiers into policemen and social worker mode, neither of which they are trained to perform.

Had the Powell Doctrine been utilized it would have provided you a good strategy to ensure complete victory in Iraq. The Generals who were asked to retire b/c they did not agree with Rumsfeld plan for invading Iraq; would have provided you the experienced strategist you so desperately want now.

Sorry you guys (Bush Admin. & his merry band of supporters of 34%) had your shot. By the time Bush leaves office in shame, the Iraq war (2003 - 2008) will be in its 6th year with no end in sight.

Bush had his chance for victory in Iraq----but he blew it. Now he will leave Office in Jan. 09 by abandoning the troops he sent over there; and leaving this horrific mess for the next President to cleanup.

THANKS ALOT CURRIOUS GEORGE.

[bobbylien]

2. Having a Plan for the Peace; allows for plans to put the Iraqi people back to work rebuilding their own country and infrastructure. Instead the jobs for rebuilding Iraq went to American contractors (20,000). Leaving millions of Iraqi men and women un-employed. If you gainfully employ the masses they are unlikely to get into mischief---which usually involve criminal behavior and murder.

You do understand that the major work is being done by Iraqis employed by the American contractors right? This is just a matter of who bid the job and can do it the cheapest. It would be stupid to import american workers to do basic jobs, these contractors are high tech companies.

[rastaman]

2.Â*Â*Having a Plan for the Peace; allows for plans to put the Iraqi people back to work rebuilding their own country and infrastructure.Â*Â*Instead the jobs for rebuilding Iraq went to American contractors (20,000).Â*Â*Leaving millions of Iraqi men and women un-employed.Â*Â*If you gainfully employ the masses they are unlikely to get into mischief---which usually involve criminal behavior and murder.

You do understand that the major work is being done by Iraqis employed by the American contractors right? This is just a matter of who bid the job and can do it the cheapest. It would be stupid to import american workers to do basic jobs, these contractors are high tech companies.


American contractors in Iraq are exploiting and abusing foreign workers horribly. They are lured to low-wage jobs in Iraq that they can’t leave by being promise high-wage jobs in Kuwait. It seems that one of the biggest villains in this is Kellogg Brown & Root Inc., a subsidiary of vice-president Dick Cheney’s old firm Haliburton.

http://www.americanchronicle.com/articles/viewArticle.asp?articleID=9276

[bobbylien]

2. Having a Plan for the Peace; allows for plans to put the Iraqi people back to work rebuilding their own country and infrastructure. Instead the jobs for rebuilding Iraq went to American contractors (20,000). Leaving millions of Iraqi men and women un-employed. If you gainfully employ the masses they are unlikely to get into mischief---which usually involve criminal behavior and murder.

You do understand that the major work is being done by Iraqis employed by the American contractors right? This is just a matter of who bid the job and can do it the cheapest. It would be stupid to import american workers to do basic jobs, these contractors are high tech companies.


American contractors in Iraq are exploiting and abusing foreign workers horribly. They are lured to low-wage jobs in Iraq that they can’t leave by being promise high-wage jobs in Kuwait. It seems that one of the biggest villains in this is Kellogg Brown & Root Inc., a subsidiary of vice-president Dick Cheney’s old firm Haliburton.

http://www.americanchronicle.com/articles/viewArticle.asp?articleID=9276

I think you are missing the point of my comment. You said that giving the jobs to american contractors was taking away jobs from the Iraqis when the majority of the jobs iraqis can perform are still given to them. These contractors are just managers.

[rastaman]

2.Â*Â*Having a Plan for the Peace; allows for plans to put the Iraqi people back to work rebuilding their own country and infrastructure.Â*Â*Instead the jobs for rebuilding Iraq went to American contractors (20,000).Â*Â*Leaving millions of Iraqi men and women un-employed.Â*Â*If you gainfully employ the masses they are unlikely to get into mischief---which usually involve criminal behavior and murder.

You do understand that the major work is being done by Iraqis employed by the American contractors right? This is just a matter of who bid the job and can do it the cheapest. It would be stupid to import american workers to do basic jobs, these contractors are high tech companies.


American contractors in Iraq are exploiting and abusing foreign workers horribly. They are lured to low-wage jobs in Iraq that they can’t leave by being promise high-wage jobs in Kuwait. It seems that one of the biggest villains in this is Kellogg Brown & Root Inc., a subsidiary of vice-president Dick Cheney’s old firm Haliburton.

http://www.americanchronicle.com/articles/viewArticle.asp?articleID=9276

I think you are missing the point of my comment. You said that giving the jobs to american contractors was taking away jobs from the Iraqis when the majority of the jobs iraqis can perform are still given to them. These contractors are just managers.



The Iraqi's do not need over 20,000 american contractors in their country to rebuild Iraq!. The jobs that are left for the Iraqi's to perform are low paying jobs and they are pissed off. What hell are 20,000 american contract managers truely doing besides riping off american tax payers and Iraqi citizens. These 20,000 Ameican contractor managers you speak of are hired mercenaries who have sold their souls for money on behalf of War Profiteering Republican Corporations such as Haliburton, KR Brown & Root, etc.

[Labrocca]

The Iraqi's do not need over 20,000 american contractors in their country to rebuild Iraq!.Â*Â*The jobs that are left for the Iraqi's to perform are low paying jobs and they are pissed off.Â*Â*What hell are 20,000 american contract managers truely doing besides riping off american tax payers and Iraqi citizens.Â*Â*These 20,000 Ameican contractor managers you speak of are hired mercenaries who have sold their souls for money on behalf of War Profiteering Republican Corporations such as Haliburton, KR Brown & Root, etc.


I see your point but really what's the big deal that American contractors are there. I can't personally speak on the capabilities of the Iraqi people to rebuild their country but since we just toppled their government and bombed their factories I would think America should assist in the clean up and reconstruction. War profiteering sounds ugly but all being told it happens in every way. I don't think America is profitting all that much from this war anyways. Since Americans have to financially support the war don't you think it's fair we reap some benefits from it too?

[rastaman]

Fair enough Labrocca, but you or we must ask how where is the benefits from Iraq? The war is costing Americans $2 billion per year and Bush is borrwing the money to fight in Iraq---it's like he is paying for the war with a credit card and the interest is mounting!!!

America should only assist in re-building Iraq with loans, let the Iraqi's re-build their own country is my point. Before we bombed Iraq back to the stone age, Iraqi's had built their own country w/o the interference and exploitation of American corporate contractors.

If you have sometime "Goggle" the Marashall Plan used to rebuild Japan and Germany after WWII, and you will realize the Marshall Plan allowed both countries to become the economic florishing industrialize nation.

There is no end in sight in Iraq, until war profiteering corporations have finished stealing the Iraqi resources. Plain and simple.

[BoogyMan]

Fair enough Labrocca, but you or we must ask how where is the benefits from Iraq?Â*Â*The war is costing Americans $2 billion per year and Bush is borrwing the money to fight in Iraq---it's like he is paying for the war with a credit card and the interest is mounting!!!

America should only assist in re-building Iraq with loans, let the Iraqi's re-build their own country is my point. Before we bombed Iraq back to the stone age, Iraqi's had built their own country w/o the interference and exploitation of American corporate contractors.Â*Â*

If you have sometime "Goggle" the Marashall Plan used to rebuild Japan and Germany after WWII, and you will realize the Marshall Plan allowed both countries to become the economic florishing industrialize nation.

There is no end in sight in Iraq, until war profiteering corporations have finished stealing the Iraqi resources.Â*Â*Plain and simple.


Rastaman, since you insist on propagating this mental feces, lets get a list of what Iraqi resources are being stolen by the industry that is there working on the rebuild.

I don't want a list of nutjob talking points, I would like to see proof positive of this accusation.

Put up or shut up time?

I think so.

[rastaman]

Fair enough Labrocca, but you or we must ask how where is the benefits from Iraq?Â*Â*The war is costing Americans $2 billion per year and Bush is borrwing the money to fight in Iraq---it's like he is paying for the war with a credit card and the interest is mounting!!!

America should only assist in re-building Iraq with loans, let the Iraqi's re-build their own country is my point. Before we bombed Iraq back to the stone age, Iraqi's had built their own country w/o the interference and exploitation of American corporate contractors.Â*Â*

If you have sometime "Goggle" the Marashall Plan used to rebuild Japan and Germany after WWII, and you will realize the Marshall Plan allowed both countries to become the economic florishing industrialize nation.

There is no end in sight in Iraq, until war profiteering corporations have finished stealing the Iraqi resources.Â*Â*Plain and simple.


Rastaman, since you insist on propagating this mental feces, lets get a list of what Iraqi resources are being stolen by the industry that is there working on the rebuild.

I don't want a list of nutjob talking points, I would like to see proof positive of this accusation.

Put up or shut up time?

I think so.



Well Boogyman, I'll do you one better. So as not to unfairly show bias toward your mental feces, not bore you with nut job talking points and to provide you with the proof positives you are looking for---

Whats so Nutty About: The Marshall Plan and the role the plan had in rebuilding Japan and Germany. Is your search engine malfunctioning?

I am going to suggest that you do as I did and conduct a Google search. Now it is up to you which title to type into the search space, I typed in: "War Profiteering in Iraq". I came up with 10 pages and 630,000 entires on this topic. This way you can use your critical thinking skills read the entires that interest you and arrive at your own conclusions.

What ever you find or conclude, comeback and share it with us. So now it is your turn to put up or shut up. After all I think you tend to lean more on the cynic side or subscribe to "Show me" I'm from Missouri. So do your homework and and post what you find instead of attacking the messenger.

[BoogyMan]

Well Boogyman, I'll do you one better.Â*Â*So as not to unfairly show bias toward your mental feces, not bore you with nut job talking points and to provide you with the proof positives you are looking for---

Whats so Nutty About: The Marshall Plan and the role the plan had in rebuilding Japan and Germany.Â*Â*Is your search engine malfunctioning?

I am going to suggest that you do as I did and conduct a Google search.Â*Â*Now it is up to you which title to type into the search space, I typed in: "War Profiteering in Iraq".Â*Â*I came up with 10 pages and 630,000 entires on this topic.Â*Â*This way you can use your critical thinking skills read the entires that interest you and arrive at your own conclusions.

What ever you find or conclude, comeback and share it with us.Â*Â*So now it is your turn to put up or shut up.Â*Â*After all I think you tend to lean more on the cynic side or subscribe to "Show me" I'm from Missouri.Â*Â*So do your homework and and post what you find instead of attacking the messenger.


What you have done here is simply say that you refuse to substantiate your ever so consistent rant with credible sources. You tell me to go and do your work for you. I can google for "Aliens at Area 51" as well and get hundreds of thousands of links, but that doesn't prove there are Aliens at area 51. Provide substantiation with credible sources or belt up.

[rastaman]

Well Boogyman, I'll do you one better.Â*Â*So as not to unfairly show bias toward your mental feces, not bore you with nut job talking points and to provide you with the proof positives you are looking for---

Whats so Nutty About: The Marshall Plan and the role the plan had in rebuilding Japan and Germany.Â*Â*Is your search engine malfunctioning?

I am going to suggest that you do as I did and conduct a Google search.Â*Â*Now it is up to you which title to type into the search space, I typed in: "War Profiteering in Iraq".Â*Â*I came up with 10 pages and 630,000 entires on this topic.Â*Â*This way you can use your critical thinking skills read the entires that interest you and arrive at your own conclusions.

What ever you find or conclude, comeback and share it with us.Â*Â*So now it is your turn to put up or shut up.Â*Â*After all I think you tend to lean more on the cynic side or subscribe to "Show me" I'm from Missouri.Â*Â*So do your homework and and post what you find instead of attacking the messenger.


What you have done here is simply say that you refuse to substantiate your ever so consistent rant with credible sources.Â*Â*You tell me to go and do your work for you.Â*Â*I can google for "Aliens at Area 51" as well and get hundreds of thousands of links, but that doesn't prove there are Aliens at area 51.Â*Â*Provide substantiation with credible sources or belt up.




I suggest you "Belt Up". You are using the oldest trick in the forum. You want me to provide you credible sources so as you can continue to say those sources are BS. So I asked of you the same request. By the way, you are Splitting Hairs when we go from Aliens at area 51 to War Profiteering in Iraq". It looks like you and I are at an Impass.

Go ahead you can have the last word.

[BoogyMan]

I suggest you "Belt Up".Â*Â*You are using the oldest trick in the forum.Â*Â*You want me to provide you credible sources so as you can continue to say those sources are BS.Â*Â*So I asked of you the same request.Â*Â*By the way, you are Splitting Hairs when we go from Aliens at area 51 to War Profiteering in Iraq".Â*Â*It looks like you and I are at an Impass.

Go ahead you can have the last word.


I will gladly take that last word. Had you the fortitude to provide a source, you would have found my response to be one of research and evaluation.

Everything I have read that you have posted so far has been unsubstantiated and wholly based in emotion and the propagation of liberal stereotypes of conservative ideology.

I guess you have chosen the belt-up option with regard to substantiating your claims.

[Athena]

I think Bush and Rumsfield made terrible errors, and entering Iraq without sufficient forces to prevent the choas that followed the invasion is certianly one of the terrible errors. Cheating those in the armed services, by using National Gaurd people, instead of building up the army was cheap and underhanded. The National Gaurd should guard the nation of the US, but Iraq is far outside borders of the US.

Personally, I think what is happening today, is a continuation of WWII. Eisenhower did not demobilize following WWII, but embedded the military complex into every aspect of US society, including replacing liberal education with education for technology for military and industrial purpose. Those of this military/political/industrial complex have been itching to succeed in the New World Order agenda, where Germany failed. The US could throw every weapon in the ocean, and it would still by under military order, but the people do not understand this.

[BoogyMan]

Athena,

I think the tin foil in your hat might be affecting your thinking a bit. :)

[Athena]

Athena,

I think the tin foil in your hat might be affecting your thinking a bit. :)


If you choose to debate my reasoning please do so. Paraphrase the idea you disagree with and explain why you disagree with it.

Some my think what you said witty and humorous, but you have not provided an arguement against what I said. At this point what you said has all the merit of the class clown acting up because enjoys attention, but really has nothing of value to contribute. Like I don't even know what you are disagreeing with, so I can't even defend the idea.

[Nitrus]

Athena,

I think the tin foil in your hat might be affecting your thinking a bit. :)


At least make a valid and relevant point in the post.

-N

[BoogyMan]

At least make a valid and relevant point in the post.

-N


Gads, don't try to joke here I guess.

Athena,

Must I really rebut the NWO theory and your effort to, in the same breath, tie Germany and the U.S. together in some oddly formed xenophobic world control ideology?

[Athena]

This may not answer the question about profiteering in Iraq, but obviously the US went in prepared to protect oil wells, but not to maintain the social order and safety of citizens. These people were not our enemy. They did us no wrong. We were suppose to be "liberating them", but were unprepared to protect them, when our intelligence on this region should have equalled fully understanding what we were up against. The CIA had infiltrated Iraq at least since the hostage affair in Iran. Those at the top had a reasonable idea of what to expect, but Bush, who is proud of not doing too much thinking before he acts, began this war without much thinking and was not prepared to protect citizens he claimed we were liberating.

How many are aware of the British encouraging the Arabs to throw off Turkish rule, and the Iraqi fight for independence from British rule? Bush, should have known better than to invade, and either is he a complete idiot or a liar. For sure he was not wise when he invaded Iarq and put on a flight suit and declared victory, before the real fight started. His "Shock and Awe" did not have the effect he wanted, and he should have known better. It is like he completely ignored the history of Iraq and top advisors. And US citizens were so mislead into this poorly thought out war.