Latter-Day Copperheads

[Caravaggio]

Latter-Day Copperheads

* "I believe . . . that this war is lost, and this surge is not accomplishing anything, as is shown by the extreme violence in Iraq this week."--Senate Democratic Leader Harry Reid, April 19, 2007

* "Resolved, that this convention does explicitly declare, as the sense of the American people, that after four years of failure to restore the Union by the experiment of war, during which, under the pretence of military necessity, or war power higher than the Constitution, the Constitution itself has been disregarded in every part, and public liberty and private right alike trodden down, and the material prosperity of the country essentially impaired, justice, humanity, liberty, and the public welfare demand that immediate efforts be made for a cessation of hostilities, with a view to an ultimate convention of the States or other peaceable means, to the end that at the earliest practicable moment peace may be restored on the basis of the federal Union of the States."--1864 Democratic platform


http://www.opinionjournal.com/best/

[Caravaggio]

They Won the War Before They Lost It



"I am proud of these troops and what they have done. They won the war and the mission was accomplished. We cannot win it militarily."--Rep. John Murtha, April 20


http://www.opinionjournal.com/best/

[lily]

I'm not sure what you are trying to say. More than one expert has said this war can't be won militarily.

I'll tell you what.....I made this challenge on a mostly Republican forum and no one could answer my question, so let's see if you can......Can you tell me what we have accomplished in the last 2 years militarily in Iraq?

[Caravaggio]

I'm not sure what you are trying to say. More than one expert has said this war can't be won militarily.

[Caravaggio]

I'm not sure what you are trying to say. More than one expert has said this war can't be won militarily.


Depends on the experts...but if you want to lose a war...telegraph to the enemy that you are going to quit and give them a definite date.

[Elrathin]

I'm not sure what you are trying to say. More than one expert has said this war can't be won militarily.


As a liberal I will say this war can't be won militarily. Given the rules that we abide by. If we want to win a war by any means necessary we can. But that would require us to kill anyone no matter what.

So if we want to win the war by becoming the thing we hate, then we can. If we want to win this war by using AMERICAN values, then we can't.

The question is, do we want to win this war and become the very thing we hate? Or do we want to retreat with our values in tact?

Winning isn't everything, and winning could very well mean we become the very thing we hate. What kinda of win is that?

[Caravaggio]

I'm not sure what you are trying to say. More than one expert has said this war can't be won militarily.


As a liberal I will say this war can't be won militarily. Given the rules that we abide by. If we want to win a war by any means necessary we can. But that would require us to kill anyone no matter what.

So if we want to win the war by becoming the thing we hate, then we can. If we want to win this war by using AMERICAN values, then we can't.

The question is, do we want to win this war and become the very thing we hate? Or do we want to retreat with our values in tact?

Winning isn't everything, and winning could very well mean we become the very thing we hate. What kinda of win is that?



Dude.!!!!..that is so righteously exact..have you signed up with Kerry or Klitoon campaign yet?..I will...Haaaaa....Haaaaaa...

[lily]

Depends on the experts...but if you want to lose a war...telegraph to the enemy that you are going to quit and give them a definite date.



Yes, that is what this administration has said......and they have been dead on with their strategy and what they say..........

But then, please don't avoid the question.......this thread was about Reid saying that we are loosing the war militarily........Can you tell me what we have accomplished in the last 2 years militarily in Iraq?

[Elrathin]

Dude.!!!!..that is so righteously exact..have you signed up with Kerry or Klitoon campaign yet?..I will...Haaaaa....Haaaaaa...


Um no I haven't signed on with Kerry, I have FOUGHT the war you claim, and have seen the consequences, have you?

It is obvious that this enemy is going to fight this war to the bitter end no matter what. It is obvious that with our current military strategy we will not win this war.

The only way we will win this war militarily is if we are willing to fight the same way they are. And if we are willing to fight the war the same way they are, what make us any better than they are?

That is the point ANYONE with a brain realizes. Now the choice is yours. Do you want to defeat the enemy by becoming the enemy?

[lily]

The only way we will win this war militarily is if we are willing to fight the same way they are.Â*Â*And if we are willing to fight the war the same way they are, what make us any better than they are?



I have to disagree with you here El....I think the only way we are going to win this war and I do think it is winable is with a different administration. Whether it be Democrat or Republican, it really doesn't matter. This administrations credibility is shot. They insist on doing the same things over and over and won't even consider any other of the experts opinions.

[Alonzo]

The only way we will win this war militarily is if we are willing to fight the same way they are. And if we are willing to fight the war the same way they are, what make us any better than they are?


I don't think that would work unless we wipe them out, which really defeats the whole purpose and puts us on the level of stalin.

And the more brutal you are, the worst the result is in terms of terrorism, as they will get more and more recruits.

[Elrathin]

I don't think that would work unless we wipe them out, which really defeats the whole purpose and puts us on the level of stalin.

And the more brutal you are, the worst the result is in terms of terrorism, as they will get more and more recruits.


That is the point I was trying to say Zo.

[Alonzo]

Oh, I thought you were saying to be extremely brutal, but not exactly genocide.

[Elrathin]

Oh, I thought you were saying to be extremely brutal, but not exactly genocide.


No I was trying to say that the only way to truly win this war is to be genocidal, but then are we truly better than the enemy when we do so?

[Caravaggio]

Dude.!!!!..that is so righteously exact..have you signed up with Kerry or Klitoon campaign yet?..I will...Haaaaa....Haaaaaa...


Um no I haven't signed on with Kerry, I have FOUGHT the war you claim, and have seen the consequences, have you?

It is obvious that this enemy is going to fight this war to the bitter end no matter what. It is obvious that with our current military strategy we will not win this war.

The only way we will win this war militarily is if we are willing to fight the same way they are. And if we are willing to fight the war the same way they are, what make us any better than they are?

That is the point ANYONE with a brain realizes. Now the choice is yours. Do you want to defeat the enemy by becoming the enemy?



I have FOUGHT the war you claim, and have seen the consequences, have you?

Really...in what capacity?...Me...187th infantry 101st Airborne 1969-71 RVN.

[Caravaggio]

I'm not sure what you are trying to say. More than one expert has said this war can't be won militarily.

I'll tell you what.....I made this challenge on a mostly Republican forum and no one could answer my question, so let's see if you can......Can you tell me what we have accomplished in the last 2 years militarily in Iraq?


Hmmmm...something called democracy and free elections?

[Elrathin]

I have to disagree with you here El....I think the only way we are going to win this war and I do think it is winable is with a different administration. Whether it be Democrat or Republican, it really doesn't matter. This administrations credibility is shot. They insist on doing the same things over and over and won't even consider any other of the experts opinions.


I was talking militarily winning the war. There are diplomatic ways as well to win it that are possible, but I stick to my original comment about the only way to win it militarily is to become the enemy which is something I do not want happening.

[Caravaggio]

The only way we will win this war militarily is if we are willing to fight the same way they are. And if we are willing to fight the war the same way they are, what make us any better than they are?



I have to disagree with you here El....I think the only way we are going to win this war and I do think it is winable is with a different administration. Whether it be Democrat or Republican, it really doesn't matter. This administrations credibility is shot. They insist on doing the same things over and over and won't even consider any other of the experts opinions.


Although every death is tragic...America has not got the will and heart to take any casualties any more for any purpose...they expect a two month Nintendo war were you just lob some cruise missiles at camels and tents.

Check out the casualties for this little forgotten war...


Philippines insurrection..
CASUALTY FIGURES:

U.S.-- 4,234 dead and 2,818 wounded.

Philippines-- 20,000 military dead and 200,000 civilian dead. (approximate numbers). Some historians place the numbers of civilian dead at 500,000 or higher.

http://www.historyguy.com/PhilipineAmericanwar.html

[Caravaggio]

I have to disagree with you here El....I think the only way we are going to win this war and I do think it is winable is with a different administration. Whether it be Democrat or Republican, it really doesn't matter. This administrations credibility is shot. They insist on doing the same things over and over and won't even consider any other of the experts opinions.


I was talking militarily winning the war. There are diplomatic ways as well to win it that are possible, but I stick to my original comment about the only way to win it militarily is to become the enemy which is something I do not want happening.


Diplomacy with who?

[lily]

I'm not sure what you are trying to say. More than one expert has said this war can't be won militarily.

I'll tell you what.....I made this challenge on a mostly Republican forum and no one could answer my question, so let's see if you can......Can you tell me what we have accomplished in the last 2 years militarily in Iraq?


Hmmmm...something called democracy and free elections?


One more time.........Can you tell me what we have accomplished in the last 2 years militarily in Iraq?

Although every death is tragic...America has not got the will and heart to take any casualties any more for any purpose...they expect a two month Nintendo war were you just lob some cruise missiles at camels and tents.

Oh, on the contrary......I'm still waiting for those Iraqis to stand up as promised.

[Caravaggio]

I'm not sure what you are trying to say. More than one expert has said this war can't be won militarily.

I'll tell you what.....I made this challenge on a mostly Republican forum and no one could answer my question, so let's see if you can......Can you tell me what we have accomplished in the last 2 years militarily in Iraq?


Hmmmm...something called democracy and free elections?


One more time.........Can you tell me what we have accomplished in the last 2 years militarily in Iraq?





Although every death is tragic...America has not got the will and heart to take any casualties any more for any purpose...they expect a two month Nintendo war were you just lob some cruise missiles at camels and tents.

Oh, on the contrary......I'm still waiting for those Iraqis to stand up as promised.



On January 30, 2005, a majority of Iraqi voters voted in an election conducted by their transitional government which elected a 275-member Transitional National Assembly.

Gee..I guess if you want to quibble about a few months.

[Caravaggio]

1949
May 12 'Berlin Blockade' is lifted by Soviets
May 23 "Basic Law" (Grundgesetz) as Westgermany's Constitution
August 14 Election of first Bundestag
Sept.12 Election of Theodor Heuss (FDP) as first (West) German Federal President
Sept.15 Election of Konrad Adenauer (CDU) as first Federal Chancellor
Oct.7 GDR (DDR) was formally established

[Caravaggio]

http://www.ibdeditorials.com/IMAGES/cartoons/toon042307.gif

[Caravaggio]

http://bp2.blogger.com/_ZUuM2QZu0ng/RimDtHHXLUI/AAAAAAAAACI/VAolT09lCqA/s400/reidtroops.jpg