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Surfe
04-20-2007, 06:26 AM
Their Power With Your Money

April 20th, 2007

By LSG III

Reverend Jonathan Mayhew’s demand of, ”No taxation without representation”, provided Americans granite resolve to violently reject taxes from a despicable government oppressively working against the citizens’ interests. He knew prohibitive taxation was a crime on his country. Two hundred years later Americans have forgotten the lessons of those that bled and died for to remove a deplorable government. Today, the American government benefits special interests as a goliath of taxation and spending greater than anything the world has ever witnessed at the expense of its people.

Americans will labor until April 30 this year for nothing more than sustaining government spending. Corporate welfare, military redundancy, senseless subsidies, and failed programs will maintain a parasitic grip on our hard work. Democrats nor Republicans will cut scandalous spending in areas which reward special interests that keep them in power. It would be more appropriate to require congress to wear NASCAR apparel so we at least know what companies and special interests they actually represent.

Bought politicians jockey for position to spend your money first. The party affiliation matters not. Randall Cunningham (14 years U.S. Congress) had an actual menu with prices per illegal favor. William J. Jefferson (14 years U.S. Congress) was caught red handed with over $90,000 cash in his freezer and remains in the U.S. Congress to this day. The seniority system in Congress rewards those regions that are willing to permanently crown their representatives regardless of how dastardly they have conducted themselves. Teddy Kennedy’s (43 years in the Senate) exploits continue to remain ignored by the people of Massachusetts. In turn he rewarded his cronies with a massive fiasco known as “The Big Dig”. “The Big Dig” is the most expensive highway project in American history was fraught with corrupt contractors who contributed heavily to Teddy. It was supposed to cost $2.6 Billion; instead it has cost $14.6 Billion and is still racking up more of our hard earned dollars after being 5 years beyond its proposed completion date. Senators Ted Stevens (39 years in the Senate) and Daniel Inouye (44 years in the Senate) of Alaska and Hawaii are nearly the top two states in pork spending every year although their populations are a minute segment of America. Narcissistic “leaders” and the special interests put themselves above the people. When will the true Americans stand up for themselves?

The money the U.S. Government spends is your money! They are supposed to be representing your best interests. Who among us actually believes our Senators and Congresspersons are looking out for us? Do you work a third of your time to have your money employed in a manner that is counter productive to your pursuit of happiness? Are you being taxed without receiving honest representation? Our Government will spend and waste even more of our money next year. The trend will continue until America collapses; that is the history of Democracies which we need to overcome.

There is a real, courageous, and just alternative. Americans can stand up and take their government and livelihoods back in one bold move. Destroying the current tax system and replacing it with a fair tax would remove our politicians’ extortion abilities. Making income and employment tax obsolete in favor of an all inclusive consumption tax would end the Teddy Kennedy, Randy Cunningham, William J. Jefferson, Daniel Inouye, Ted Stevens, and your representatives current pay for power system.

* Kill employment tax; the most regressive and escalating tax we have been forced to endure
* Kill corporate income tax which will vanquish enormous amounts of special interests
* Increase the tax base from a portion of income to all consumption
* Eliminate the obtrusive I.R.S. and its malignant nature.
* Save Americans and American businesses enormous amounts of time and money wasted on dealing with a ridiculous tax code.
* Make America the #1 tax haven for ALL businesses

The rich spend and consume more and will pay more. The poor would be provided with a credit prior up front to protect those below the poverty line. The tax base would be much greater and the corruption would be crushed. Favored constituencies would lose their grip on our elected officials. A Fair Tax solution will never be proposed by the Democrats or Republicans. It would destroy their strangle hold on power and the contemptible pork, waste, and corruption which they currently revel in. Amending the constitution through the state process is the solution. Expect the current power structure to oppose it with every fiber in their soulless beings.

Do not fear the big idea… fear the status quo.


http://rwbusa.wordpress.com/

The above article hits the mark in every way for me.

Drocket
04-20-2007, 07:09 AM
* Kill corporate income tax which will vanquish enormous amounts of special interests

I gotta admit, this one is pretty true: if you give the special interests (companies who want massive tax breaks) what they want, they probably WILL go away. Because, you know, they'll have gotten what they wanted. Of course, logically, that brings up a rather big problem, since there's really no particular problem with special interests existing except that they want things they otherwise shouldn't have. If one gives them what they want in order to get them to go away, you'd automatically made them successful, which is the reason that they exist in the first place.

In other words, this suggestion, by definition, works in the best interests of the special interest groups it appears to be decrying. If said special interest groups are to be considered untrustworthy, then this suggestion would also have to be considered untrustworthy. If we consider this from the opposite viewpoint - way that we consider this suggestion to be a worthy idea for the purposes of getting rid of special interests by giving them what they want, then there's no real harm to them sticking around since, at worst, they'll potentially someday get what they want, which really isn't much different than simply giving it to them now.

* Kill employment tax; the most regressive and escalating tax we have been forced to endure
* Increase the tax base from a portion of income to all consumption

You DO realize that consumption taxes are, by a wide margin, the most regressive form of taxation possible, right? They're also the ones most favored by the previously mentioned special interest groups, since they rarely affect them, adding another bit of evidence that these suggestions come from those oh-so-evil special interest groups that we're supposed to fear.

* Make America the #1 tax haven for ALL businesses
Wow, this one doesn't even PRETEND to be anything other than what it is...

speedracer
04-20-2007, 02:48 PM
I agree with the basic premise of the article, but the doctor prescribes to kill the patient as a way of curing the sickness.

* Increase the tax base from a portion of income to all consumption
In baby steps, it would acceptable. In one fell swoop, the American government would probably be overthrown. The perception of fairness built into "progressive" taxation is one of the reasons Americans tolerate the royalty class. Throughout history, removal of that perception always leads to peasant revolution.

potter
04-20-2007, 08:42 PM
You could kill the corporate income taxes but they would still lobby for programs that specificily enrich their industries with tax dollars paid for by everyone else. For instance the weapons industry could lobby to create international conflicts which create wars which enrich their industries, construction companies could lobby for big construction projects paid for by taxpayers, which taxpayers really don't need, Pharmaceutical companies could lobby for non compete clauses in medicare contracts so they can charge Americans more for drugs than they can elsewhere. There really is no getting around corporate control of our government. Corporations don't pay taxes? They just have more bribe money.

Surfe
04-21-2007, 05:52 PM
Corporations would pay taxes with no exemptions on their consumption. Corporations consume greatly.

Labrocca
04-21-2007, 08:43 PM
If you think corporations only care about paying taxes you are mistaken. Corporations also have laws changed so that they can make more money. The drug companies are a good example of that. The health industry lobbies heavily to make sure they stay in business and that's why we don't have government health care system in America not because Americans don't want it. They 100% absolutely do!

Income tax SHOULD be abolished imho BUT...the election of our politicians imho is problem #1. The manner that donations and spending for an election are the beginning of the corruption of our democracy.

Surfe
04-22-2007, 09:25 AM
Labrocca,

I do not disagree with you at all. I also believe in Federal term limits, but I believe the needed change in our tax code will go a very long way.

By the way... here is the correct link for the article.

http://rwbusa.wordpress.com/their-power-with-your-money/

bobbylien
04-22-2007, 12:29 PM
As much as I would like to have the tax code change I don't believe its ever going to happen. The public would oust liberals so fast if we enacted a flat tax system because they'd actually know how much they are paying every year. I'm sick of politicians running a campaign promising tax reductions but somehow their budget grows every year.

Fuck those American sugar farmers.. I want cheap sugar, not this nasty corn syrup shit.

Drocket
04-22-2007, 06:49 PM
Fuck those American sugar farmers.. I want cheap sugar, not this nasty corn syrup shit.

Actually, what needs to be done to fix the high fructose corn syrup issue is a chance to the subsidies given to corn growers. The problem isn't that sugar is too expensive, the problem is that corn is so heavily subsidized that corn syrup is virtually free. There is, coincidentally, an excellent article about that in the NYT magazine today, which you can read here (http://www.nytimes.com/2007/04/22/magazine/22wwlnlede.t.html?_r=2&oref=slogin&oref=slogin).

micfranklin
04-22-2007, 06:52 PM
Are most of the taxes we pay even legal?

NortheastCynic
04-22-2007, 06:54 PM
Yes, because most of them come from the State level.**The unfortunate thing is they're used to finance programs that are illegal.

BTW: Welcome to DF, Surfe. Always good to see another libertarian.

-NC

Buck Laser
04-22-2007, 07:02 PM
Fuck those American sugar farmers.. I want cheap sugar, not this nasty corn syrup shit.

Actually, what needs to be done to fix the high fructose corn syrup issue is a chance to the subsidies given to corn growers. The problem isn't that sugar is too expensive, the problem is that corn is so heavily subsidized that corn syrup is virtually free. There is, coincidentally, an excellent article about that in the NYT magazine today, which you can read here (http://www.nytimes.com/2007/04/22/magazine/22wwlnlede.t.html?_r=2&oref=slogin&oref=slogin).

Actually, I'll bet the subsidies continue as the pressure grows for ethanol as a motor fuel. But maybe the demand for ethanol will reduce the market for corn syrup.

Drocket
04-22-2007, 07:28 PM
Actually, I'll bet the subsidies continue as the pressure grows for ethanol as a motor fuel. But maybe the demand for ethanol will reduce the market for corn syrup.
That's a good point, but I think what needs to be done there is to shift the financial incentives to the production of ethanol, not the production of corn. And quite frankly, corn isn't the best source of ethanol anyway - hemp is far better. Unfortunately, it suffers from its association with marijuana, something that people need to get over. In an ideal world, we'd be seeing a strong push for large-scale hemp growing. The midwest would have hemp fields for as far as the eye can see. That's really just not going to be happening any time soon, though...

bobbylien
04-22-2007, 07:49 PM
Actually, I'll bet the subsidies continue as the pressure grows for ethanol as a motor fuel. But maybe the demand for ethanol will reduce the market for corn syrup.

In the short term maybe. But the future of ethanol production is in switch grass, poplar trees, and straw which actually yield more energy than corn. Ethanol will be the next big industry. I expect to see some huge companies emerging in the next few years. Most of that is because ethanol is still a relatively new technology despite being developed over 150 years ago.

wonder cow
04-22-2007, 09:14 PM
Surfe, is there something particularly compelling about a blog with all of three posts on it? Because you have a thread concerning 2/3 such posts on this very forum.

Anywho, I agree with some of the sentiment but not all.

Kill employment tax

I'm not going to ask what that is, because I'd rather not here your answer, you crazed libertarian you.

Kill corporate income tax which will vanquish enormous amounts of special interests

Thus giving special interests exactly what they want. Seriously, I fail to see how it will "vanquish special interests". They will just move on to other things.

Increase the tax base from a portion of income to all consumption

Oh. So on one hand you argue against the imaginary regressive "employment tax" yet embrace the most regressive of taxes, the sales tax.

Eliminate the obtrusive I.R.S. and its malignant nature.

Who is going to collect the taxes and make sure that people are not cheating on the consumption tax? The FDA? The EPA?

People don't pay their taxes, and/or greatly resent paying their taxes, and/or cheat on their taxes and they hate the IRS for calling them on it. Whatever.

Save Americans and American businesses enormous amounts of time and money wasted on dealing with a ridiculous tax code.

And at the same time destroy an industry built around helping people and businesses file their taxes. But your point is well taken, the tax code is atrocious.

I agree that their needs to be reform in our tax system. And I agree that we should put the smack down on the all out bribery that is US elections (by changing laws and putting people in jail).

And another thing I would point out: there is a basic fallacy at play with the whole "sales tax replacing all other taxes" idea.

People are more offended by income tax. And don’t notice as much sales tax. But regardless, if you replace “x” amount of collected taxes with “x or more” amount of collected taxes, you have achieved absolutely nothing.

Think of all the purchases a company like IBM makes every year. Do you think that 1% (or whatever you want the sales tax to be) of their total purchases will not exceed what they actually pay in income taxes? Maybe, maybe not. But it would be close.

The only possible change that can happen when taking this approach is that the tax burden will shift from one group to another.

Buck Laser
04-22-2007, 09:46 PM
In an ideal world, we'd be seeing a strong push for large-scale hemp growing. The midwest would have hemp fields for as far as the eye can see. That's really just not going to be happening any time soon, though...

In the summer of 1981, my son and I took a 500 mile or so bicycle tour across northern IL and down the Mississippi. As soon as we got about 25 miles west of DeKalb, we started seeing massive growths of hemp along the roadsides, particularly along the farm roads. Being just 18 at the time, he was ecstatic, and we have WAY too many pictures of him or me surrounded by forests of hemp!

It turns out that all that was a remainder from the days around WW1, when hemp was grown commercially in IL for the war effort. State officials had a several year campaign to eradicate the errant weeds, and the last time I explored those rural roads, about 2002, I saw no remnants. But I have to agree with you that it would certainly grow there. I don't know anything about its efficiency as a a plant, though:cool:

potter
04-23-2007, 06:30 PM
Income tax SHOULD be abolished imho BUT...the election of our politicians imho is problem #1.**The manner that donations and spending for an election are the beginning of the corruption of our democracy.


*sound of wild applause*

piratemonkey
04-23-2007, 06:59 PM
BUT...the election of our politicians imho is problem #1.**The manner that donations and spending for an election are the beginning of the corruption of our democracy.


Wow. I totally agree.

Are you for public campaign financing like me? Or do you have a different solution to this problem?

Alonzo
04-23-2007, 07:02 PM
In the summer of 1981, my son and I took a 500 mile or so bicycle tour across northern IL and down the Mississippi. As soon as we got about 25 miles west of DeKalb, we started seeing massive growths of hemp along the roadsides, particularly along the farm roads. Being just 18 at the time, he was ecstatic, and we have WAY too many pictures of him or me surrounded by forests of hemp!

Am I the only one who thinks it's odd that your son was sharing his love of marijuana with his father? Sure, it's hemp and not really the stuff you smoke, but it's still suprising considering the apparent interest in pot.

Buck Laser
04-23-2007, 08:15 PM
In the summer of 1981, my son and I took a 500 mile or so bicycle tour across northern IL and down the Mississippi. As soon as we got about 25 miles west of DeKalb, we started seeing massive growths of hemp along the roadsides, particularly along the farm roads. Being just 18 at the time, he was ecstatic, and we have WAY too many pictures of him or me surrounded by forests of hemp!

Am I the only one who thinks it's odd that your son was sharing his love of marijuana with his father? Sure, it's hemp and not really the stuff you smoke, but it's still suprising considering the apparent interest in pot.

I tried pot once or twice back in the 60s, didn't like it because all it did was make me hungry. My son did what most kids do in their teens, and I was aware of it. I'd say he did OK--he lives across the street from the president of the University of Texas, has been married for 21 years, has two lovely daughters, started his own company about 17 years ago, and plays in 3 or 4 jazz combos.

And yeah, my wife and I were those horrible, horrible liberal parents who didn't beat or belittle our kids. Go figure.