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jafar00
04-18-2007, 02:48 PM
I guess I should be more careful what I post on the subject of asking questions about the Holocaust from now on :P

EU aims to criminalise Holocaust denial

By Tobias Buck in Brussels

Published: April 17 2007 19:56 | Last updated: April 17 2007 19:56

Laws that make denying or trivialising the Holocaust a criminal offence punishable by jail sentences will be introduced across the European Union, according to a proposal expecting to win backing from ministers Thursday.

Offenders will face up to three years in jail under the proposed legislation, which will also apply to inciting violence against ethnic, religious or national groups.

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Diplomats in Brussels voiced confidence on Tuesday that the controversial plan, which has been the subject of heated debate for six years, will be endorsed by member states. However, the Baltic countries and Poland are still holding out for an inclusion of “Stalinist crimes” alongside the Holocaust in the text – a move that is being resisted by the majority of other EU countries.

The latest draft, seen by the Financial Times, will make it mandatory for all Union member states to punish public incitement “to violence or hatred directed against a group of persons or a member of such a group defined by reference to race, colour, religion, descent or national or ethnic origin”.

They will also have to criminalise “publicly condoning, denying or grossly trivialising crimes of genocide, crimes against humanity and war crimes” when such statements incite hatred or violence against minorities.

Diplomats stressed the provision had been carefully worded to include only denial of the Holocaust – the Nazi mass murder of Jews during the second world war – and the genocide in Rwanda in 1994.

They also stressed that the wording was designed to avoid criminalising comical plays or films about the Holocaust such as the Italian comedian Roberto Benigni’s prize-winning Life is Beautiful . The text expressly upholds countries’ constitutional traditions relating to the freedom of expression.

Holocaust denial is already a criminal offence in several European countries, including Germany and Austria. It is not a specific crime in Britain, though UK officials said it could already be tackled under existing legislation.

In an attempt to assuage Turkish fears, several EU diplomats said the provisions would not penalise the denial of mass killing of Armenians by Ottoman troops in the aftermath of the 1915 collapse of the Ottoman empire. Turkey strongly rejects claims that this episode amounted to genocide.

The proposal draws what is likely to be a controversial distinction between inciting violence against racial or ethnic groups and against religious groups. Attacks against Muslims, Jews or other faiths will only be penalised if they go on to incite violence against ethnic or racial groups, the draft text states.

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/122134be-ed14-11db-9520-000b5df10621.html

Elrathin
04-18-2007, 02:50 PM
I don't really condone laws that make holocaust denial a crime, however, I do think denying the holocaust happened is an idiotic thing.

Buck Laser
04-18-2007, 02:56 PM
Making laws to force a single reading of history is a strange way of doing things. What so many people don't seem to understand about history is that its meaning, significance and interpretation must ALWAYS be subject to examination and question.

speedracer
04-18-2007, 02:58 PM
Oh Europe... always tackling social issues with legislation. Really, if they want to be socialists, I'm cool with that even though I think it's the wrong way to go.

But legislating social beliefs? Bad, bad, bad.

Which is why questioning the "official" account of the holocaust, or performing any sort of scientific or historical review, carries a hefty prison sentence in many countries.

I guess I should be more careful what I post on the subject of asking questions about the Holocaust from now on :P

Stepping on your own feet there. :rolleyes:

bobbylien
04-18-2007, 03:09 PM
Slippery slope if you ask me. The idea that they are going to make it illegal to even discuss the holocaust is scary to me. Almost as scary as those who deny the holocaust.

wonder cow
04-18-2007, 03:15 PM
fairly common in europe already. Psst...The EU will only ever be a glorified international trade organization.

speedracer
04-18-2007, 03:26 PM
fairly common in europe already. Psst...The EU will only ever be a glorified international trade organization.

Man, I wish it were so, but it certainly doesn't seem to be going that direction.

jafar00
04-18-2007, 07:32 PM
Slippery slope if you ask me. The idea that they are going to make it illegal to even discuss the holocaust is scary to me. Almost as scary as those who deny the holocaust.


I don't deny the holocaust happened, but I do question the reasons why those people died and the real extent of it. I also question why a certain group is using it as a political tool and going out of it's way to stop any kind of real investigation Historic, Scientific or otherwise.

There have been more than enough terrible tragedies in the world where a great many people have suffered and died. None have been used and abused to the extent that the holocaust has been. I think it's an insult to the memories of those who died at time.

micfranklin
04-19-2007, 12:57 AM
Hearing this makes me think less of Europe now. Europe is a failure.