Wanted To Rent Section 8 Housing

[Thomas Crane]

Greetings,

The enclosed advertisement appeared in our neighborhood newspaper, "The Shopper."Â*Â*The location to which Tawanda has referred to is in the south suburbs of Chicago.Â*Â*You should also note that I have removed her telephone number for privacy reasons.

Isn't it nice to know that Tawanda is making use of your tax dollars through the Section 8 Program which is US Government subsidized housing as she has $1420.00 a month available to spend towards renting a house in, "A nice location."

Actually, I feel kind of bad because she did not mention my area and that being Calumet City, Illinois.Â*Â*Anyone familiar with the south suburbs of Chicago will know that Calumet City is just north of Lansing, Illinois, and due east of South Holland.Â*Â*Maybe its because people like me are now in the minority which means that Calumet City is not nice anymore.Â*Â*Perhaps if she moved next door to me, she would find out how nice I am.Â*Â*On the other hand, our houses are quite small in comparison to what she wants as our primary source of income is social security and the Federal Government does not pay as much when you work for a living.Â*Â*That being the case, she might want something a bit better than what we have since Uncle Sam is going to pay for it anyhow and she might look down upon us a being "riff-raff."

Maybe one of you nice folks out there might wish to rent a house to Tawanda.Â*Â*Remember, this rent is guaranteed by the Federal Government and you are certain to receive a monthly check for renting to her and her family.Â*Â*

Ain't America grand?

Best wishes,

Tom Crane

P.S.Â*Â*Please note:Â*Â*I literally spent hours trying to get an attachment of Tawanda's ad on this post and unfortunately, I was not successful.Â*Â*That being the case, you are going to have to trust me on this one.Â*Â*Whatever the case maybe, I would be willing to swear on whatever religious tome fits your fancy and for those of you that are atheists (non-believers), I would even bow down before a goat's head that what follows is a true and actual duplication of the aforementioned advertisement.Â*Â*If, perchance, there are any doubters among you, all you need to do is contact The Shopper as I have included the date of publication, the address and the telephone number.

Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* April 11, 2007

Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* The Shopper
Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* [removed personal info]

Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* Wanted:Â*Â*Family of 6 looking for a
Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* 3 or 4 bedroom house with basement in
Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* Lansing, South Holland or other
Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* nice location that will takes
Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* section 8 vouchers for $1420.00 only
Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* TawandaÂ*Â*(telephone number
Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* Â* deleted)
Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Buck Laser]

I guess I'm not clear what the issue is here, Tom. A house big enough to hold six would probably rent for around $1450 in Austin, which is a much cheaper place to live than the Chicago area. This isn't to say that there aren't a good many people getting by on less, but it doesn't exactly juice my outrage glands.
Maybe you'd better give a little more context.

[Thomas Crane]

Oops.Â*Â*I forgot to include the contact numbers in my previous posting for The Shopper in the event that someone might wish to verify the advertisement in question. The contact numbers are: (708) 333-5901 or 1-800-410-5250 or Fax (708) 333-9630.Â*Â*The Email address is general@myshopper.biz and the Web Page: www.myshopper.biz

Tom Crane

[Thomas Crane]

Dear Buck,
The cost of housing in the various neighborhhods is not the problem. The ability to pay is another thing entirely. The fact that the Federal Government supports Section 8 Housing while a person on social security has to pay "out of Pocket" is the issue. How about if the person who is on social security receives a supplemental in the way of subsidized housing? The bottom line is, where are the rewards for a lifetime of work rather than rely on the support of the Federal Government? Why don't we all just sit home and let the Federal Government pay our way? That would be the easy way, don't you think? I guess the question here is, why work?

[Drocket]

Absolutely correct. Anyone who falls upon hard time at any point in their life - losing a job, for example, or the death of the primary income spouse, or massive life-threatening illness - should simply be pitched into the nearest alley and left to die. It's absolutely shameful that we live in a country where the government helps people through difficult times in their lives so that they can eventually become working, productive members of society again.

[Labrocca]

So you are using an example of a person using the section 8 law to criticize the goverment? I am getting that right?

Section 8 is something we could easily argue about all day. I have one section 8 housing in my 1/2 million dollar per house GATED community. I know how it happend and a lot of the home owners in the neighborhood are NOT happy about it.

The family of 6 may very well mean she has 5 children. I also wonder if you would complain if the name was Alice or Mary instead of Tawanda? If she doesn't have a man around to help her than 5 children would mean she can't work. What in your view is the solution here? Force her to live in a project where the children run a greater chance of growing up as criminals? I really want to know how you see a persons right to fair housing in this.

[Elrathin]

Absolutely correct. Anyone who falls upon hard time at any point in their life - losing a job, for example, or the death of the primary income spouse, or massive life-threatening illness - should simply be pitched into the nearest alley and left to die. It's absolutely shameful that we live in a country where the government helps people through difficult times in their lives so that they can eventually become working, productive members of society again.


Drocket, the problem is that many people abuse the system and they don't use it to get back on their feet, but they use it to stay on their backs and not ever work again. Take a look at some statistics, there are third generation families that have been on welfare straight, that is just wrong.

Welfare and government programs are there to help people through difficult times, but not give them a free ride for three generations.

[Labrocca]

Take a look at some statistics, there are third generation families that have been on welfare straight, that is just wrong.

Well doesn't the question then become WHY there are 3 generations of welfare families? Is it possibly due to a systematic supression? Where they grow up poor, underpriviledged, and have bad education? This imho is where section 8 makes the attempt to give families a chance to be in a more middle class environment and bring up their children to a higher standard.

[Elrathin]

Well doesn't the question then become WHY there are 3 generations of welfare families? Is it possibly due to a systematic supression? Where they grow up poor, underpriviledged, and have bad education? This imho is where section 8 makes the attempt to give families a chance to be in a more middle class environment and bring up their children to a higher standard.


Now wait a minute, there was a poll that I posted a while back asking if people think that the federal government should pay for college education.

The majority of the comments were no, because it was said there are plenty of scholraships, GED programs, etc. to get you to where you can go to college.

You can't have it both ways. Either it's people's fault where they are at or it isn't and the government needs to step in and help, which is it?

Like I said there is a difference in helping someone get back on their feet and a family that is going on three generations on welfare straight. I am all for helping people get back on their feet, but I don't buy into the suppression argument for 3 generations. That just doesn't cut it.

[CheesyMuslim]

Sorry bout that,

1. But in America, anyone can have great wealth, black, white, brown, green.
2. While I agree with a helping hand, for those who intend to step out on their own, and within 6 months.
3. I do not agree with generational welfare recipients.
4. Its a crime against ones self.
5. And a crime against all Americans.
6. Its a crime against their children.
7. Its a crime period.

Regards,
SirJamesofTexas

[Labrocca]

Well doesn't the question then become WHY there are 3 generations of welfare families?Â*Â*Is it possibly due to a systematic supression?Â*Â*Where they grow up poor, underpriviledged, and have bad education?Â*Â*This imho is where section 8 makes the attempt to give families a chance to be in a more middle class environment and bring up their children to a higher standard.


Now wait a minute, there was a poll that I posted a while back asking if people think that the federal government should pay for college education.

The majority of the comments were no, because it was said there are plenty of scholraships, GED programs, etc. to get you to where you can go to college.

You can't have it both ways.Â*Â*Either it's people's fault where they are at or it isn't and the government needs to step in and help, which is it?

Like I said there is a difference in helping someone get back on their feet and a family that is going on three generations on welfare straight.Â*Â*I am all for helping people get back on their feet, but I don't buy into the suppression argument for 3 generations.Â*Â*That just doesn't cut it.



I don't believe comparing advanced education to fair and equal housing the same thing. And yes...there are already programs for college...just like there is the section 8 program for housing. So you are in a way agreeing that section 8 is a viable and needed program.

[Thomas Crane]

Dear Friends,

While I can appreciate all of the good answers that have flowed from the topic that I posed, I think that the major premise has been lost and that is in the course of trying to correct or alleviate some of the problems that some people suffer in our society, for one reason or another, the Federal Goverment has developed a program, Section 8, that diminishes the investment that some people have made in order to sustain themselves in good times and in bad.

The fact is that whether you realize it or not, I am a senior citizen who is 74 years of age.Â*Â*This may or may not surprise some of you as my mind is still a bit agile and as yet I have not faded into dementia.Â*Â*I am also a product of the working classes as my father was a roofer who came from coal mining country.Â*Â*As I look back upon my years growing up in the Depression Era and the fact that my father went through some lean years in trying to provide for our family at a time when there just were not any welfare programs other than what FDR provided through the his various work programs such as WPA and CCC camps, we somehow managed to struggle through it all.Â*Â*The fact is, I was the beneficiary of medical care through various public and private health care programs that if some people had not provided them, I probably would not be typing this message today.

Now then, in getting back to my basic premise, all that I am trying to say is that in trying to provide for the general welfare of society, the Federal Government has placed hardships on another segment of our society and that is our country's senior citizens.Â*Â*It is rather difficult for me to reconcile the fact that after my many years of work, and some of them were difficult ones, I see much of what I worked for slipping away.Â*Â*The reason being that while we literally worked during an era when we were "nickel and dimed" to death we were not able to build up much of a reserve other than social security.Â*Â*The fact is, some of the rent subsidies now issued through the Federal Government exceed what we seniors now receive through social security.Â*Â*In effect, we are forced to "pay as you go" while others receive benefits that far exceed what we have invested a lifetime in securing.

I can think of many examples of what I am referring to that have been represented in the movies and the most recent example being, "Cindrella Man," with Richard Crowe.Â*Â*Another was , "The Grapes of Warth," with Henry Fonda.Â*Â*These people portrayed hardships!Â*Â*So you see, Dear Friends, I have also seen those "Hard Times" and unfortunately they have come upon me once again because the "nature of the times" with its extrodinary inflation has hit home once again.Â*Â*To say the least, it is rather difficult to find that some people are now the recipients of welfare that far exceeds my own standard of living that come in the form of rent subsidies, food stamps, medical care and etc.Â*Â*Aside of the fact that I do receive Medicare, a program that includes deductibiles, I must pay for other things on my own because I do not fit into any of those other programs as I am on social security.Â*Â*I am also what one of our respondents said was, "One step away from a catastropic illiness or economic disaster."Â*Â*What the Federal Government has done in its attempt to help others is to take some of us working class people and diminsh our purchasing power.Â*Â*To me that is an injustice that somehow needs to be addressed.Â*Â*

Not to get biblical on you, but I can see many similarities in the story of the Prodigal Son.Â*Â*One son worked hard and was loyal to his father while the other squandered his wealth and upon his return was welcomed back home and treated as an equal as if he had never been gone.Â*Â*

In any case, to those who may differ with my ideas or premise, I do not bear you any ill will.Â*Â*Rather, in what is quickly becoming my old age, I find no fault, but rather seek for a cure.

Best wishes to one and all,

Tom Crane

[Elrathin]

I don't believe comparing advanced education to fair and equal housing the same thing. And yes...there are already programs for college...just like there is the section 8 program for housing. So you are in a way agreeing that section 8 is a viable and needed program.


Sure it's a valid comparison, because if there are college programs for advanced education, then they can get higher paying jobs and get off the need for section 8. So in a sense if they stay on welfare, then it is of their own choosing.

My point is that yes, it is a needed and viable program, for helping those people get back on their feet. It is not meant to be a 3 generation program so that people don't have to work and get the government to pay for everything.

[sbannon]

Tom, there's sadly no cure to be had. I would only suggest our time is more productive and better spent looking at how to improve our own tiny lots in life rather than pointing out those who seemingly have it easier as examples.

For all any of us know, Tawanda here may be a new young widow, her husband having been killed in Iraq. Left with 5 small children, no job or job skills and her on-base housing being withdrawn, she's just trying to make the best situation she can for her family.

Or, she and her 5 lazy adult siblings who all refuse to work may just be abusing the system, that's equally or more possible.

I'm sure you're probably a good man, Tom, and it's true that our nation and many of we the people haven't been very kind or respectful to your generation in recent years.

It's absolutely fair and right of you to lash out for that. To demand and expect better. But, I believe you'll feel better and likely get further by saying "look what you're doing to us"--rather than pointing out where others seem to have it better. When you do that, you pit yourself against that group of people rather than the original sinners, the leaders willing to leave your generation by the way-side to fend for itself.

[Drocket]

One thing that's sorely lacking with the specific example given is any sort of indication that anything is amiss. Someone, for reasons we don't know, is looking for a house that accept government funding. Possibly there's something amiss there - but we have no idea what it might be. It could be illegitimate, but it could easily be a single mother who's husband just ran off with his secretary, or died in a car crash, or it could be a family who's finances have been destroyed because of a family member with cancer or other illness, or any one of a dozen entirely legitimate reasons why they would need help. It's hard to get outraged about a situation that we know so little about.

Regarding families who are 'multi-generational welfare', I actually know one who's like that, as they lived nearby and the one daughter has kept in contact with my sister as they were friends as children. The father was an alcoholic who couldn't keep down a job. It was later discovered that he sexually molested his daughter, who wound up getting pregnant and dropping out of high-school at about 15. She's now about 20 or so, recently divorced from an abusive relationship, and has three kids.

The reality is that she HAS made a lot of bad choices in her life. She knows this herself, and she IS trying to put her life back together. The reality of the situation, though, is that no matter what she does, there's really nothing she's going to be able to do for at least a decade - high school dropouts with 3 children under the age of 5 aren't exactly employable, and even if she managed to get a job, what would she do with her kids while she was at work? Daycare would likely be more than she could earn, and leaving them with her sexual-predator father doesn't exactly sound like a good idea...

She's not a bad person, but she has made a lot of mistakes in her life, mostly because of the situation that she came from. When you see what she's been through, it's hard to place too much blame on her. Its hard, even, to blame her father who (it was revealed during his trial) had been molested by HIS father as a kid. These issues are hard ones to deal with. She needs a lot of help, and I hope she gets it because it's the only way she's ever going to have a shot of putting her life back together. Because what are the alternatives? Throwing her, and her children, away?

[Labrocca]

Mr Crane while I do understand that in the past America has experienced hardships. However we are now a MUCH richer country. The hardships you endured do not have to be suffered by todays society simply because you dealt with them. We are an advancing society that adapts and grows on a continued basis (for better or worse). I would think that after experiencing the harder times that you have would give you more compassion than most to see that others do not go through the same problems.

I am sure some of your complaint is that seniors do not see enough benefits from Social Security and that imho is a valid complaint. But rest assured...then next few generations will most likely not even have SS at all. The system of SS is nearly broken and going bankrupt. (sorry if that's too far off-topic).

[CheesyMuslim]

Sorry bout that,

1. I am going to allow you folks a little back ground info on, *The Great CWN*.
2. My dear mother raised 5 of us, on a small salary job, after my drunk father was run off while I was still in diapers.
3. She never asked for squat.
4. She never got food stamps even.
5. Now she is 80 years old and scraping by on a small SS check of 600 approximate per month.
6. She is cut from a different cloth that those who suck up on free rent, free food, free transportation, free health care, free child care, free cloths, free satellite, all free!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
7. Do not think I am over blowing this, I am under blowing it.
8. I agree 100% with *The Honorable Tom Crane* !
9. His father was as I was a roofer, I roofed for 24 years, and being on a roof for so long taught me plenty.
10. My dear mother taught me very much as well, she was and is a tough person, who can deal with adversity, but that ought not to be, not at the twilight of her life.
11. Many welfare recipients will lay down in the street if they can't get free satellite TV on demand.
12. Most of us children have done well as we are very successful, on the most part.
12.(a) As I was growing up I never knew I would own houses on both sides of the planet, free and clear, and lands, commercial and residential.

Regards,
SirJamesofTexas

[Thomas Crane]

Dear Friends,

It is with heart-felt sadness that I feel that it is time for me to disengage from the topic, "Wanted To Rent Section 8 Housing."Â*Â*Before I leave however, I would to make comment on what I have learned these past few days.

First of all, and without appearing to be too preferential, I would like to thank Sir James of Texas for the honor that he has bestowed upon me by granting me the title, "The Honorable Tom Crane."Â*Â*Sir James, I am sincere when I say that you have brought recognition to just one of the many unwashed and unknowns that are sometimes lost in our very vast and complex society.

Generally speaking, I have to say that I have gained a renewed awareness of the compassion that now exists within our society by the many examples offered by some people as to what others must face in order to survive.Â*Â*You have provided me with all sorts examples of the trials and tribulations that some people must endure in order to survive.Â*Â*Based upon what I have learned, I will try to take a new approach towards life in dealing with some of the particular difficulties that I must face knowing full well that you are out there, somewhere, feeling my pain.

Therefore, and I know with each of your blessings, it is my intent to post the following advertisement in our local newspaper.Â*Â*I am sure, based upon what many of you have said regarding the new awareness that now exists within our society, that it will not be too long before someone, maybe even one of yourselves, will answer my plea.

The advertisement:

Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Wanted. Old man with old wife and dog on limited
Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*and fixed income wishes to re-locate to
Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*more suitable climate.Â*Â*Would especially desire
Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*a location that offers numerous outdoor activities
Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*such as fishing, hunting and etc.Â*Â*Also Bingo
Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Parlor and hairdresser for wife.Â*Â*Must be close to
Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*thrift marts and especially Wal-Mart.
Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Would like advice on how to apply for Federally
Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Subsidized Housing (Section 8).Â*Â*Would be willing
Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*to relinquish Social Security and Medicare in return
Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*for other governmental gratuities.Â*Â*
Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*

Best wishes,Â*Â*Tom Crane
Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* Â*Â*Â*
Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*

[CheesyMuslim]

Sorry bout that,

1. But you hang in there *The Honourable Thomas Crane*.
2. I am sure your fortitude is what got you as far as you have gotten.
3. I wish you well old buddy, and hope some day you can reach all your life long goals.
4. And find retirement fun and enjoyable, fishing and goofing off on a beach some where.
5. Live long and prosper, send my regards to your boss, the wife.

Regards,
SirJamesofTexas

[Elrathin]

I hate to say it Tom, but Chess is one of those folk that have said that SSN is for welfare people that don't deserve it. He feels that SSN is for welfrare people and has even said such a thing, so don't let his sincerity now confuses you.

[CheesyMuslim]

Sorry bout that,

1. Just that you know, *The Honourable Thomas Crane*, just know old buddy, that when you are, *The Great CWN*, you will always have some detractors.
2. Comes with the territory.
3. Its a *Badge of Honour* for , *The Great CWN*.
4. Social Security is for the old folks mostly, and should be geared towards them on the most part, but to buy votes the Neoliberals have gift carded countless free rides, to the detriment of all involved, meaning all Americans.

Regards,
SIrJamesofTexas

[Professor]

I am from the Chicago area and framiliar with the neighborhood you are talking about. It's not that nice. It's not a ghetto; it is a suburb, however you make it sound like Oak Brook (where Sammy Sosa lives and Mc Donalds is headquartered) or downtown Chicago in the Watertowers (where Oprah lives).

Further more, your concern doesn't seem to be with the wasting of government resources but with the state of your neightborhood and keeping those not like you out of it.


Maybe its because people like me are now in the minority which means that Calumet City is not nice anymore.


The "I suffered" arguement is rubbish. Because past generations had flu epidemics, polio, whopping cough and chicken pox, should we stop administering vacinations? What about shoes? I'm sure throughout history people dealt without shoes, no more shoes?

If we can help, then we should help. We have the ability to give vacines, shoes at affordable prices and up to date medical care. Why should we as a society hold out on anyone if we have the ability to help them?

While I agree some are abusing the system, I think they are the minority. I worked fast food over a few summers and knew most of the workers had some sort of aid. One woman had free housing, 4 bedroom house, basement. She had a 14 year old girl, a 13 year old girl, a 10 year old girl and an 11 year old boy. The law mandates the boy had to have his own room, Mom had to have her own room (by law) and there couldn't be more than one kid to a room (also by law). They were on food stamps and salvation army clothes. The woman had sezuires brought on from sheer exhustion from working two fast food jobs full time (total of 80 hours a week). When they got bad she would quit one, then as she needed more money, a few months later she would go back. Then they would come back and so on. This was a family who was trying. The 14 year old was already looking for work as a babysitter or something, the kids all pitched in to help out. They were a very nice family. They used the system but I wouldn't say they took advantage of it.

Another example, one of my friends was left abruptly by her husband. She decided to go to college, while raising to young kids on her own, while trying to work. The work didn't work out for the first two years of her college. So she used public housing, aid, food stamps, student loans, ect. Now she is happily remarried to a different, wonderful man, off welfare, working in her chosen profession, with a two year old. Completely on her own.

There are always going to be some people who take advantage of the system. But when people need it and use it, then why not keep it. It's not only the parents, but providing the aid we are helping the kids have a chance.

[Thomas Crane]

Sorry Professor, but I beg to differ.

I had fully intended to drop from this forum, but I could not let your comments go unanswered.Â*Â*I am sorry if I gave you the wrong impression as to what my neighborhood is like.Â*Â*I mean no offense, but I just searched through the Calumet City Forum and came up with this little tid-bit that I have included below.Â*Â*I don't know if the person is telling a lie, but I have to let his comments stand as stated.Â*Â*If you wish to check it out, just go to the sub-title, "Lansing Illinois Is Changing."Â*Â*I believe that you will find other comments of a like nature.Â*Â*Sometimes reality is difficult to face, but face it we must because if we deny reality, then our very existance becomes a lie.Â*Â*

Also, as far as my own life experiences are concerned, I have to revert to the old Indian saying, "Never judge a man until you have walked a mile in his moccasins."Â*Â*My life's experiences have been many and varied.Â*Â*The fact is, I was born in the inner of the City of Chicago and on the South Side to be exact.Â*Â*The neighborhood in which I lived was known as Woodlawn.Â*Â*As any student of urban society or affairs should know, Woodlawn was the birthplace of the Black P. Stone Nation under Jeff Fort.Â*Â*One need only do a computer search in order to read the history of the development of these gangs or organizations as some might call them.Â*Â*

My experiences in the Big City covered the back alleys which once were teeming with peddlers and ice-men who filled outdoor ice chests where cold food was stored. Many were those who walked through the gangways and would serenade the apartment building occupants with songs in hopes that someone would throw down a dime.Â*Â*Many of those stairs I climbed myself in order to deliver newspapers.Â*Â*The milkmen even delivered milk from horse-drawn wagons and many were the times that I hitched a ride.Â*Â*Horse droppings were a common sight in those days and one got accustomed to the smell and the flies that came along with it.Â*Â*There was no air-conditioning in those days and many of us slept out on the porches in the hot summertime.Â*Â* My grandmother, who happened to be a midwife, delivered her daughter-in-law's babies at home by way of natural birth without any pain killers.

My migration throughout the racial changes that took place in the various neighborhoods in which we lived were beyond my control as my family were apartment dwellers during the early part of my life and we were subject to the whim of the various landlords who sold the buildings in which we lived.Â*Â*Not until my later years were we able to purchase a home and I must say, with a bit of sweat and tears.Â*Â*Honestly speaking, our neighborhood is undergoing rapid change. A computer check of the demographics of Calumet City will reveal this.Â*Â*Along with this change is an increase in crime that no honest person can deny.Â*Â*It is not my intent to escape from this situation unless I am forced to do so.Â*Â*The fact is, many of my neighbors are both Black and Latino and I am on good speaking terms with all of them.Â*Â*Our problem exists with what I call the "Roamers" who come through the neighborhood in gangs or groups and cause mayhem.

I just hope that in our anguish that we do not overlook some of the good people that are among us as you most certainly have done when you mentioned that good lady who worked two jobs.Â*Â*All that I can say is, "God bless her."Â*Â*Unfortunately, there hides beneath the surface an element that preys upon all of us and in most instances they do so when cultures are in transition and they seize upon the weak that are among us much as the lion will seek out the lonely stray.Â*Â*To say that I am one of those suburban whites who wishes to keep his neighborhood lily white is to deny all of the many cultural relationships that I have had over the years and the many friends that I have made that span all races and colors. This was the case even when I served in the US Army.Â*Â*The fact is, we can never live in a vacumn, however, if through their sheer blindness and their own prejudice some of these black gang members wish to drive out what remains of us whites, I will have no other alternative than to move once again and at an age which I do not wish to do so, because at the same time, my resources are quite limited.Â*Â*

Working people do not acquire wealth because, unlike corporate executives who simply push papers and assemble great fortunes, we grow callouses on our hands and have dirty fingernails.Â*Â*Our houses are plain and simple and for the most part, our cars are beaters as opposed to limosines.Â*Â*We do not live in gated communities in lofty mansions, but rather live next to the street and deal with whatever comes our way.Â*Â*The fact is, whether you realize it or not, we are the grass roots of America and whenever change takes place we are the ones most affected.Â*Â*The people on the Gold Coast in Chicago exist worlds apart from all of us and for the most part, they affect us rather than we affect them, as we are members of the lower classes and as such, we have no power no control.Â*Â*The reality is we are the passive ones whereas the wealthy are the ones who control our lives by their sheer power and influence.Â*Â*While we might struggle over bits and pieces, they control vast fortunes that exist in the way of financial empires that encompasses not only money, but people and lands.

In closing, about all that I can say is "My peace go with you,"Â*Â* Hopefully, someday, somewhere we may be able to cross the great divide.

Tom Crane

Concerned too
Hinsdale, ILÂ*Â*
#5 Jan 27, 2007
Mike wrote:
Lansing Illinois is going to be the next Calument City insofar as crime, gangs and shootings. White flight is now fully underway. Close to 40% is black and Mexican. And wheather one declares this as a racist statement or not I really don't give a damn.
But when blacks move in crime soon follows it. Anyone know a good realtor?
I agree w/you - I plan on moving - last year a "loose single mom" moved into a house on 186th, the house was shot up with her poor kids in the house, due to her lifstyle, and the way she lives with all kinds of men who deal drugs....what @@@@@ me off is that the children in that house are brought up to think that this is "normal", and what's bugging me is that the bullet holes in her windows still have not been fixed - almost like she's proud to display...where I live in Lansing is only a block away from this woman - it was a wonderful neighborhood, with many people being retired......now we have this trash........

[Thomas Crane]

Dear Professor,

It is not my intent to overwhelm you, but I felt obliged to substantiate what I have already written with one more example that was taken from The Calumet City Forum under the sub-title, "Lansing Illinois Is Changing," because it appears as though my integrity might have been brought into question.

This example is "supposedly" written by a Black man.Â*Â*Whether or not it really is, I cannot say.Â*Â*Besides, the final reality is that you are your own best judge and you can believe it or not.

Once again, may peace be with us,

Tom Crane


LANSING
River Forest, ILÂ*Â*Reply »
|Flag |#20 Thursday Mar 29
I LIVE IN LANSING AND HAVE LIVED THERE FOR YEARS AS AN AFRICAN AMERICAN I SEE CRIME ON THE RISE BUT FROM ALL PARTIES THE ONLY REASON PEOPLE THINK CRIME GOES UP WHEN BLACKS AND MEXICANS MOVE IN BECAUSE ITS SHOWN TO LOOK THAT WAY, I LIVE IN THE MOSTLY WHITE PARTY OF LANSING NEAR THE KKK LODGE AND THERE'S BEEN RAPES OF WHITE WOMEN BY THEIR WHITE MALE PALS AFTER DRINKING BUT THIS TYPE OF STUFF YOU DON'T HEAR ABOUT I ALSO LIVED NEAR THE WHITE WOMEN WHO CUT HER CHILDREN 11 TIMES ON HENRY 9 YEARS AGO I ALSO LIVED NEAR THE POLICE OFFICER THAT WAS SELLING DRUGS USING BLACK BOYS FROM TFS AND TFN THAT GOT IN TROUBLE AND NONE OF THIS WAS TOLD BY THE NEWS JUST THE GUN SHOTS AND STUPID CRIMES AND BLACKS

LISTEN PEOPLE BLACKS WANT WHITES TO MOVE OUT WHEN THEY MOVE IN SO THAT THE PROPERTY VALUE WILL STABLE OFF AND THEY SISTER AND BUY THE HOUSE NEXT DOOR FOR LESS THAN ITS WORTH WE'VE GOTTEN HIP TO YOU'LL AND NOW USING YOUR FEARS AGAINST YOU TO HAVE YOU MOVE TO THE EVEN MORE BOOM DOCKS WHILE WE AND MEXICANS LIVE NEAR PUBLIC TRANS, MALLS, AND EXPRESSWAYS FOR A MORE EASY LIVE WITHOUT LIVING DIRECTLY DOWNTOWN.

LOOKS LIKE ITS WORKING AND WATCH 5 FIVES FROM NOW WHEN MOST OF THE WHITES HAVE MOVED SO FAR OUT THE BLACKS AND MEXICANS WILL COME TO LIVE BETTER WITH UPGRADED SCHOOLS, SHOPS, AND NEW EXPRESSWAYS NEAR BY LOOK AT THE SOUTH SHORE AREA, BRONZEVILLE AND THE GAP KEEP LIVING IN THE PAST AND YOUR FUTURE WILL BE FILLED WITH LIES AND TRICKS OF THE TRADE.Â*Â*

[Thomas Crane]

Dear Professor and Fellow Members,

As most of you well know, a democracy forum, by its very nature, should be one of a free exchange of ideas.Â*Â*When someone chooses to adopt the title, "Professor," it is assumed that person will not only impart knowledge, but also will engage in impartial discourse towards the purpose of reaching a final consensus of opinion or solution.Â*Â*In order to do so, one must always have a complete knowledge of the facts at hand before a final consensus is made.Â*Â*To prejudge or express ones personal opinion before all of the facts are known is to stifle dissent and therefore corrupt the very nature of the process.

When I first expressed the issue of Section 8 Housing, many of you offered opinions as to whether or not this was a viable solution to solving the issue of poverty.Â*Â*Many of you offered your opinions as to why someone might need the assistance of government to help them through a particular crisis or need.Â*Â*Your intent or ideas were, to me, noble, indeed.Â*Â*By and large, I do not disagree with you, but when the program becomes abused to the point where it becomes a detriment to society rather than a cure, I believe that the program should be subject to review.

Oftentimes, in the attempt to do good, programs become an end in themselves and without any consideration of what such actions might have on a community as a whole.Â*Â*To continue to give candy to a child without measuring the amount soon has a very detrimental effect on that child as any good nutritionist should know.Â*Â* So too should government realize when it has over-stepped the bounds of common sense or need.Â*Â*The system, like the human body, is soon corrupted or abused.

No longer do we live in isolated communities or pockets subject to the resources that are directly at hand.Â*Â*The Internet has given us the opportunity to reach out to those who, in years past, were beyond our grasp or ideas.Â*Â*

In the words of John Gillespie Magee, Jr. in his poem, High Flight, "Oh! I have slipped the surly bonds of earth, And danced the skies on laughter-silvered wings, etc."Â*Â*

This does not mean that we have license to project our own views of the world upon others until we have a complete understanding of the area in which we are engaged.Â*Â*The fact is, we are, in many instances, interlopers on that which we have never experienced or seen.Â*Â* It does no good to pretend to have a complete understanding or knowledge of an area, when one does not, because it give a false impression to others.Â*Â*It changes the dynamics of the problems at hand.

Returning once again to the problems that we are now experiencing in the southern suburbs of Chicago; namely Lansing and Calumet City, Illinois one must actually be there rather than assume or cast judgment upon the people who are directly affected.Â*Â*Whereas I, myself, have experienced many instances of cultural change, others have not.Â*Â*They have, for the most part, never experienced the transition that is now impacting their communities and therefore, some react in anger, as the overt actions on the part of others are alien to what they have previously experienced in the course of their lives.

It is on that note that I offer you one more example of what has appeared on the, "Calumet City Forum - Lansing Illinois Is Changing."Â*Â*Once again, this person has taken note of the lady and the problems that she has not only brought upon herself, but on the community as a whole.Â*Â*Since the person writing the review has made reference to the fact that her husband died almost a year ago and she is a single mother, one can only speculate as to how her rent is being paid.Â*Â*

In keeping with the spirit of this posting board, I have edited out some of the obscene words with a (#), that I believe might offend.Â*Â*At the same time, please do not be to anxious to condemn or cast dispersions upon this person as he is acting out or writing with some of the anguish that he surely must feel.Â*Â*In actuality, this person might very well be black himself as he projects a knowledge of what is not only going on in this house, but a knowledge of the area or communities involved.Â*Â*Then again, I could be wrong as I only have his writings to base my assumptions upon.

And so you have it, Dear Friends

Hopefully with some sense and understanding of the problem it will one day be solved.Â*Â*If not, then we all are surely going to be dragged down into the Great Abyss.

Tom Crane


Concerned too wrote:
<quoted text>
I agree w/you - I plan on moving - last year a "loose single mom" moved into a house on 186th, the house was shot up with her poor kids in the house, due to her lifstyle, and the way she lives with all kinds of men who deal drugs....what ##### me off is that the children in that house are brought up to think that this is "normal", and what's bugging me is that the bullet holes in her windows still have not been fixed - almost like she's proud to display...where I live in Lansing is only a block away from this woman - it was a wonderful neighborhood, with many people being retired......now we have this trash........


i live right down the street from that crazy ##### and i agree with you, she acts all proud that she was with a drug dealing gangbangin peice of ####,doesnt give a damn about the 2 beautiful daughters she has, she lost her husband and that didnt even phase her, she was pregnant a month after her husband passed away.she had her daughters move out so she can whore her ### around town. her shooting wasnt the 1st time her and the daughters were shot at!!! on feb 14,2006 she was in harvey on emerald street, at the gangbangers familys house,(her boyfriends) where known gangbangers and cocaine dealers live, she and the girls were there for a party when the latin kings drove passed their house and started shooting with a tech-9, like a idiot, lil jesse, runs towards the car with a .22 caliber and got his lil punk ### shot the #### up,im glad it was him and not one of those 2 girls, that whole family is a peice of ####,now the mother of deceased jesse is trying to sue the harvey police dept. claiming that the same corrupt cops that they rolled with are the same officers covering up his murder, PEOPLE NEED TO KNOW THAT THE FAMILY IS NOTHING BUT A BUNCH OF GANGBANGING COKEHEAD JUNKIES WHO BREAK INTO PEOPLES HOUSE'S, BELIEVE ME I KNOW FROM EXPERIENCE, JUST DONT HAVE PROOF, BUT THANKS CHISA

[Professor]

When someone chooses to adopt the title, "Professor," it is assumed that person will not only impart knowledge, but also will engage in impartial discourse towards the purpose of reaching a final consensus of opinion or solution.

Dude, be nice so we can keep on debating.


My experiences in the Big City covered the back alleys which once were teeming with peddlers and ice-men who filled outdoor ice chests where cold food was stored. Many were those who walked through the gangways and would serenade the apartment building occupants with songs in hopes that someone would throw down a dime. Many of those stairs I climbed myself in order to deliver newspapers. The milkmen even delivered milk from horse-drawn wagons and many were the times that I hitched a ride. Horse droppings were a common sight in those days and one got accustomed to the smell and the flies that came along with it. There was no air-conditioning in those days and many of us slept out on the porches in the hot summertime. My grandmother, who happened to be a midwife, delivered her daughter-in-law's babies at home by way of natural birth without any pain killers.


That is really cool. I didn't realize the city was like that in the 30s. I always pictured more electric lights, fridges and such. I'm always facinated by old stories.


I just hope that in our anguish that we do not overlook some of the good people that are among us as you most certainly have done when you mentioned that good lady who worked two jobs.


I think we can both agree that no matter what changes need to be made to the system we must not leave families like these out in the lurch. The issue is what to do to weed out the bad ones. Perhaps a hot line would be helpful?

You use the term "we" a lot. Do you feel like you are speaking up for your entire demographic? I agree that a big part of this issue is the class divide and the idea of NIMBY. So society stashes people it doesn't necessariliy want to deal with in the "corners," not the posh suberbs, or the stylish high rises. Your corner just happens to be getting some right now.

I think everyone has some public housing. One of my friends lives in a small rural Illinois town. When driving me one day, we passed the "bad" part of town. In their small 2000 person population (the largest town for at least 30 miles) they had government housing. Though I don't know where it is, I am sure my town does.

[Thomas Crane]

Dear Professor and Fellow Members,

It is not my intent to digress from the subject at hand and that is the topic of Federalized Housing otherwise known as Section 8.Â*Â*However, since the topic involves housing and neighborhoods and the impact that socioeconomics have upon them, I thought that I might offer you and our fellow members something in the way of enlightenment that just might help you, as well as they, to understand the understatement that you made when you said,Â*Â*"I am from the Chicago area and familiar with the neighborhood you are talking about. It's not that nice. It's not a ghetto; it is a suburb, however you make it sound like Oak Brook (where Sammy Sosa lives and Mc Donalds is headquartered) or downtown Chicago in the Watertowers (where Oprah lives).

Further more, your concern doesn't seem to be with the wasting of government resources but with the state of your neighborhood and keeping those not like you out of it."

Based upon what you have written I can only assume that you do not possess any of the history that is a part of Calumet City and the people who once occupied it.Â*Â*The fact is, you no doubt look upon me as some sort of old man fighting to protect a part of suburbia that has not been affected by social impact or change and that has suddenly been thrust upon us whether we like it or not.Â*Â*In other words, something of a bedroom community where the primary concern is sweeping the sidewalk and walking the dog or taking the kids to the park.Â*Â*From a historical standpoint, I thought that I might offer you something in the way of a snapshot as to the genesis of Calumet City that just might help you as well as others to alter your opinions somewhat.Â*Â*

I believe that you as well as some of the other readers might enjoy this historical account as it takes in something of the sordid and profane.

Calumet City, Illinois, straddles the State Line with Hammond, Indiana, which at one time served a very good purpose for those who might otherwise engage in illicit activities.Â*Â*The fact is, Calumet City was once known as North Hammond until it came into its own.Â*Â*During the 1930's a mobster by the name of Al Capone saw Calumet City as serving a purpose for his bootlegging operations because of its proximity to the "State Line."Â*Â*As a consequence, the town was completely taken over by him and his henchmen and it became, in effect, his play ground.

Just north of Calumet City lies the town of Burnham.Â*Â*It was there that Al Capone built a mansion with a tunnel that ran under the road over to a golf course.Â*Â*Golf was one of "Big Al's" pastimes.Â*Â*During one of his rounds of golf, a would be killer from a rival gang attempted to shoot Al Capone, but he only succeeded in wounding him.Â*Â*This caused Al Capone to reconsider his present location and so he moved his headquarters to Cicero, Illinois.Â*Â*Never-the-less, he left behind in Calumet City am empire of, "booze and broads."Â*Â*And oh, what a rip roaring town it was!

During the 1940's and on into the 1950's Calumet City served as the "Sin Capital" of the world.Â*Â*This was long before Las Vegas, Nevada, came into being.Â*Â*Calumet City featured honky-tonks, and girlie shows and gambling and prostitutes to such an extent that servicemen from the Second World War made it a point to spend some of their leave there.Â*Â*It also attracted businessmen from all over the world. and many was the scandal that came out of Calumet City that involved politicians.Â*Â*This was the, "Boom Times."

Slowly but surely, Calumet City was able to slip from the grasp of organized crime as other places came into being and the old gang members were either put in jail or died from natural or unnatural causes.Â*Â*Although some of the places of ill-repute still remained, their lights grew dimmer.Â*Â*Never-the-less, the State Line served the purpose of providing cover for some of the prostitutes who walked the streets and the fact is, some of them are still operating even today.Â*Â*As time went on, Calumet City slowly died down and it provided housing for many of the people who worked in the nearby steel mills.Â*Â*With the closing of many of those steel mills, the town quickly took on the flavor connected with what came to be known as the, "Rust Belt."

Today, Calumet City is in the process of racial transition and as a result, many places of business have either closed or moved.Â*Â*Added to this is the fact that one of our recent Mayors was jailed for so-called embezzling; a charge, by the way, that I believe was not entirely true.Â*Â*Also, one of our primary developers, who had an investment of over one hundred million dollars in Calumet City was assassinated in one of his rental complexes.Â*Â*That is, shot through the head.Â*Â*In addition to that, a Brinks Guard was also shot in the head as he made a pick-up from one of the large department stores in our nearby shopping mall.

So there you have it, my Dear Professor.Â*Â*As far as,Â*Â*"keeping those unlike you out of it," I can only suggest that you take your pick.Â*Â*Who among the many characters that I have mentioned are, "unlike me?"

Best wishes,

Tom Crane

"The past is but the beginning of a beginning, and all that is and has been is but the twilight of the dawn."Â*Â*Herbert George WellsÂ*Â*(1866 - 1946).

[Professor]

As time went on, Calumet City slowly died down and it provided housing for many of the people who worked in the nearby steel mills. With the closing of many of those steel mills, the town quickly took on the flavor connected with what came to be known as the, "Rust Belt."


This is the Calumet City I knew about.


I believe that you as well as some of the other readers might enjoy this historical account as it takes in something of the sordid and profane.

Calumet City, Illinois, straddles the State Line with Hammond, Indiana, which at one time served a very good purpose for those who might otherwise engage in illicit activities. The fact is, Calumet City was once known as North Hammond until it came into its own. During the 1930's a mobster by the name of Al Capone saw Calumet City as serving a purpose for his bootlegging operations because of its proximity to the "State Line." As a consequence, the town was completely taken over by him and his henchmen and it became, in effect, his play ground.

Just north of Calumet City lies the town of Burnham. It was there that Al Capone built a mansion with a tunnel that ran under the road over to a golf course. Golf was one of "Big Al's" pastimes. During one of his rounds of golf, a would be killer from a rival gang attempted to shoot Al Capone, but he only succeeded in wounding him. This caused Al Capone to reconsider his present location and so he moved his headquarters to Cicero, Illinois. Never-the-less, he left behind in Calumet City am empire of, "booze and broads." And oh, what a rip roaring town it was!

During the 1940's and on into the 1950's Calumet City served as the "Sin Capital" of the world. This was long before Las Vegas, Nevada, came into being. Calumet City featured honky-tonks, and girlie shows and gambling and prostitutes to such an extent that servicemen from the Second World War made it a point to spend some of their leave there. It also attracted businessmen from all over the world. and many was the scandal that came out of Calumet City that involved politicians. This was the, "Boom Times."

Slowly but surely, Calumet City was able to slip from the grasp of organized crime as other places came into being and the old gang members were either put in jail or died from natural or unnatural causes. Although some of the places of ill-repute still remained, their lights grew dimmer. Never-the-less, the State Line served the purpose of providing cover for some of the prostitutes who walked the streets and the fact is, some of them are still operating even today. As time went on, Calumet City slowly died down and it provided housing for many of the people who worked in the nearby steel mills. With the closing of many of those steel mills, the town quickly took on the flavor connected with what came to be known as the, "Rust Belt."

Today, Calumet City is in the process of racial transition and as a result, many places of business have either closed or moved. Added to this is the fact that one of our recent Mayors was jailed for so-called embezzling; a charge, by the way, that I believe was not entirely true. Also, one of our primary developers, who had an investment of over one hundred million dollars in Calumet City was assassinated in one of his rental complexes. That is, shot through the head. In addition to that, a Brinks Guard was also shot in the head as he made a pick-up from one of the large department stores in our nearby shopping mall.


Thank you very much for that history. It was very helpful.

As for who is the most unlike you, given the portrait you've painted of yourself, I've mentally conected you with the steal minners.

So you are saying crime is on the pick up again. I am failing to see the conection between that and a section 8 housing ad.

[Thomas Crane]

Actually crime never ended, it just has taken on new forms.Â*Â*As for the connection between Section 8's and the history that I provided to you, I was merely pointing out the fact that from a historical perspective we do not consider ourselves to be "Namby, Pambys" but rather a large and diverse group of working class people who have suddenly been "placed in the trenches" so to speak.Â*Â*I hope that you are aware that this came about because of Mayor Daley and his wanting to reshape Chicago by tearing down the high-rises.Â*Â*His plans never seem to cease as he is about to destroy one of Chicago's most beautiful parks, Washington Park, for his Olympic dreams.Â*Â*Actually, and whether they realize it or not, the blacks are also victims too.Â*Â*They have been forced to relocate using the Section 8 vouchers and a major portion are being allocated to the south suburbs.Â*Â*You do not see any of the more fashonable areas taking in Section 8's as there is probably an unspoken covenant that exists between the rich as opposed to the poor.Â*Â*The end result will be the History of Woodlawn repeated all over again when it became the most depressed area in the Nation.Â*Â*The irony of all of this is that the blacks seem to think that all that is now will continue to stay in place without realizing that they will eventually become victims once again as the basic foundation of the present community repositions themselves all over again.Â*Â*The problem with this is not the blacks themselves, because as witnessed by the many good blacks and Latinos who presently live in my own neighborhood, but the fact that they are not allowed to stabilize in the community.Â*Â*We can never hope to build on a foundation that is ever shifting due to the overwhelming numbers that are moving in.Â*Â*The Federal Government is doing a disservice to them as well as to us by the manner in which the program is administered.Â*Â*In effect the Federal Government is going about constructing a "Fool's Paradise" as no real diversity will ever be allowed to take place as the whites scatter hither and yon.

[Thomas Crane]

Dear Dude (Professor) and Fellow Members,

Well, Spring is here and duty calls. This "Old Man" can hardly afford to hire a lawn care crew as he has to do most of the work around the house himself.Â*Â*I guess this type of work is what keeps me limber and able to "pluck" away on my computer.Â*Â*But, as one knows, it hardly allows for getting anything else done and as my Dear Father often said, "Things don't take care of or correct themselves." That being the case, I will try once again to divest myself from this group, but in order to let you know how much fun I have had, I should probably add, with sadness in my heart.

There is one thing that I would like to request, however, and that is that some of you please refrain from projecting your view of the world on others according to your own mind-set.Â*Â*I have tried as best as I could to describe who I am and what I am, but I sometimes find that difficult to do.Â*Â*I know that it may be difficult for some of you because you see the world and interpret things by the way in which you were raised or schooled.Â*Â*In other words, sometimes the brain processes thoughts or ideas according to your own way of thinking and then you define someone else accordingly.Â*Â*That is a problem that we all have, I guess, and given the manner in which we have all adopted the new school of thought or un-thought, society has placed upon us a great amount of psychological thinking or conditioning.Â*Â*

We have been programmed to think according to a new set of rules and terminologies and "catch words" that we sometimes mistakenly project upon others that give a false picture or idea of who and what someone else might be.Â*Â*In summary, about all that I can say is be a little flexible in your thinking because it is a vast world out there with many variables in the human makeup or condition.Â*Â*After all, we all have our own prejudices because there are probably some of you out there who do not like "Old Men."Â*Â*If you want to play a little game, I would suggest that you try to construct a little picture of who it is that you are corresponding with.Â*Â*I am sure that you would be somewhat shocked if you should ever came face to face.Â*Â*That being the case, I would appreciate it if some of you would please refrain from "throwing daggers" at me after I am gone as I would have no way of defending myself.Â*Â*That is a "Cheaters game."

My apologies to "The Professor" and the other members of this forum for causing you to become fixated on one advertisement or incident of someone wanting to rent a Section 8 house.Â*Â*People seemed to have zeroed in on this one aspect without taking in the big picture.Â*Â*As an instance, I include The Professor's question to me and that is, "So you are saying crime is on the pick up again. I am failing to see the connection between that and a section 8 housing ad."Â*Â*The fact of the matter is, I was trying to dramatize how pervasive and insidious the Section 8 Program has become that an individual could place an ad for this type of housing in the newspaper.Â*Â*In actuality, the individual in question "Tawanda" probably should have waited for her governmental agent to make arrangements or referrals for her to inspect whatever house might have been available, but I do not criticize her for her originality or ability to act on her own.Â*Â*The old idea, "If you really want something, then go after it," still applies.

Never-the-less, I found it rather interesting to see how many profiles or life's situations that people had constructed for Tawanda.Â*Â*They would probably be could be material for a movie plot or TV show.Â*Â*I can think of one title, "The Perils of Tawanda," but given this group you might have ideas of your own.

Now then, after all is said and done, I would like to request that you lift your sights a bit and take in the "Big Picture."Â*Â*Tawanda is not an isolated event.Â*Â*There are many Tawandas out there.Â*Â*All that you have to do is conduct a search of the web and you will find that every large metropolitan area in the nation is struggling with the Section 8 Program.Â*Â*The Federal Government is administering this program on a nation-wide scale and it is having an effect all over the country.Â*Â*Just look at Baltimore or Philadelphia and you will see that they are all trying to keep things in some semblance in order.

Now then, in getting back to the subject or idea of conducting a forum.Â*Â*I would like to suggest that instead of becoming emotional and jumping on "buzz" words that you should apply some critical thinking.Â*Â*I do not operate your computer, you do.Â*Â*That means that you should scan the web for sources of information before you, as they say, "Go off half-cocked."Â*Â* Some people like to get their "two cents in" without looking at the big picture.Â*Â*

As far as idealism is concerned, I guess that one could say that I am a bit of an idealist myself.Â*Â*The only problem is that whenever I try to fix things around the house and try to make it perfect, I find that it costs money.Â*Â*As my Beloved Wife would say, "Just leave it."Â*Â*And so there I go leaving things that I know could be so much better.Â*Â*In other words, I have sacrificed my principals or ideals for the sake of money.Â*Â*Now, on the other hand, if it were one of my neighbors, I might suggest, "Why don't you do it this way or that way?"Â*Â*I probably would be met with the reply, "Don't you know that costs Money!"Â*Â*I guess the moral behind this whole idea is that as long as it does not cost ourselves money than it all right.Â*Â*So long as it costs somebody else something then everything is fine.Â*Â*I hope that you get my idea.

Professor, I must commend you on your "rapid fire" use of the computer.Â*Â*As an old "hunt and pecker" and being self-schooled on the computer, I find your technique a bit overwhelming.Â*Â*Still and all, I find that speed does not necessarily overcome substance.Â*Â*Also, I admire you for wanting to set the stage by having used my comment and your subsequent follow-up, " When someone chooses to adopt the title, "Professor," it is assumed that person will not only impart knowledge, but also will engage in impartial discourse towards the purpose of reaching a final consensus of opinion or solution."Â*Â*"Dude, be nice so we can keep on debating."Â*Â*

The fact is, I like that term, "Dude," it brings a bit of commonness or familiarity to the table.Â*Â*Not only that it shows just how "hip" someone might be.Â*Â*On the other hand, if I was to coin an expression from the "Roaring 20's" such as "23 Scadoo" you would probably wonder where the heck I was coming from.Â*Â*Well, I guess, whatever it takes to place one in with the "In crowd."

I guess that all that I can say is, Touché, my Dear Professor!Â*Â*Nice try, but in using an old boxing term, "I have learned to bob and weave."Â*Â*In other words, "You do not have me backed into a corner."Â*Â*As they say, "I come out swinging."Â*Â*Still, I hope that others will not be overcome by this technique as a course of intimidation in the course of their own debates.Â*Â*My purpose was not to "debate" but rather to educate and to inform and not bring home any debating trophies.Â*Â*My comments were directed towards the Forum at Large and not necessarily directly addressed to yourself so I hope that you can appreciate it if I tell you that I am not nice, but rather a rotten old ########.Â*Â* Hey, Professor, lighten up and have a few laughs.Â*Â*This makes for good conversation over a few beers.Â*Â*The next time that I subscribe to a forum , I think that I will use the title, "The Enlightened One."Â*Â*How do you think that would fly?Â*Â*It just might place me head and shoulders above the rest.

Best wishes,

Tom (The Enlightened One) Crane

[Labrocca]

All this posting and I just don't see the point of it all. Sorry but to complain doesn't set solutions. Yes we all have a right to complain but you also can just move.

[lily]

Dear Dude (Professor) and Fellow Members,

Well, Spring is here and duty calls. This "Old Man" can hardly afford to hire a lawn care crew as he has to do most of the work around the house himself. I guess this type of work is what keeps me limber and able to "pluck" away on my computer. But, as one knows, it hardly allows for getting anything else done and as my Dear Father often said, "Things don't take care of or correct themselves." That being the case, I will try once again to divest myself from this group, but in order to let you know how much fun I have had, I should probably add, with sadness in my heart.

I do hope that you reconsider. Reading your eloquent writing style was pure pleasure.

[CheesyMuslim]

Sorry bout that,

1. But I like *The Honourable Thomas Crane* too.
2. He does make his point.
3. And I agree with him all the time.
4. Has great writing skills.
5. Not like myself, I just throw something out there, and hope it sticks!

Regards,
SirJamesofTexas

[Professor]

Dear Dude (Professor) and Fellow Members,

Well, Spring is here and duty calls. This "Old Man" can hardly afford to hire a lawn care crew as he has to do most of the work around the house himself.Â*Â*I guess this type of work is what keeps me limber and able to "pluck" away on my computer.Â*Â*But, as one knows, it hardly allows for getting anything else done and as my Dear Father often said, "Things don't take care of or correct themselves." That being the case, I will try once again to divest myself from this group, but in order to let you know how much fun I have had, I should probably add, with sadness in my heart.

I do hope that you reconsider. Reading your eloquent writing style was pure pleasure.


Agreed. I had fun debating with you.

[CheesyMuslim]

Sorry bout that,

1. But farewell ol buddy.
2. Live long and prosper.

Regards,
SirJamesofTexas