Reason #13,487,395 I won't be joining the army

[Alonzo]

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- Tours of duty for members of the U.S. Army will be extended from 12 months to 15 months effective immediately, Defense Secretary Robert Gates announced Wednesday.

"What we're trying to do here is provide some long-term predictability to our soldiers and their families," Gates told reporters at the Pentagon.

In exchange for the extension, Gates said the service will be able to give all units a year at home between deployments.

He denied the order was a sign that the Army has passed its breaking point under the stresses of the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, saying the service has met or passed its recruiting and retention goals.

But he added that the military has been "stretched" by the conflicts.

And he blasted Tuesday's leak of that proposal to the media, saying the Defense Department hoped to give the troops 48 hours' advance notice of the decision.

The order covers the active-duty Army, which provides most of the estimated 146,000 U.S. troops in Iraq. National Guard and reserve troops would continue to spend a year in the war zone, Gates said.

About 15,000 more troops are expected to be deployed to Iraq in coming months to support the efforts to pacify Baghdad and other provinces.

The Marines, whose members serve seven months deployed, are unaffected by Wednesday's order, said Gen. Peter Pace, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff.

Troops now held beyond 12 months are paid an additional $1,000 a month. That policy will continue, Gates said.

Also, the Army has struggled to entice soldiers and Marines not to leave the service. The campaign to retain soldiers has reached $1 billion, with bonuses soaring nearly sixfold since 2003. (Read full story)

Army: Money crunch ahead
Last week, the Army warned program managers to prepare for a possible money crunch if President Bush vetoes an emergency war spending bill that calls for the eventual withdrawal of combat troops from Iraq.

But analysts say Pentagon staff will be the first to face cuts. In a memo sent Monday, the Army Budget Office warned that a resolution to the standoff between Bush and Congress over the bill "is doubtful before the end of April."

It said managers needed to plan to stretch current funds into June, with operations in Iraq and Afghanistan exempt from the restrictions. (Read full story)

News of the budget crunch and the announcement of deployment extensions sparked outrage from Democratic Rep. Ike Skelton, chairman of the House Armed Services Committee.

A well-respected Democratic voice on military issues in the House and a vocal opponent of the Iraq war, Skelton said the extensions "will have a chilling effect on recruiting, retention and readiness."

In a prepared statement released by his office, he characterized the extensions as "an additional burden to an already overstretched Army."



http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/04/11/military.stay/index.html?eref=rss_topstories

It's reaching the point where anyone who joins the army expecting anything that they were told to actually occur is naive. If you join the army expect to do whatever, whenever, and for however long. Unfortunately, most don't seem to expect that.

[lily]

Nice notice. Hey guys.......you just think you're going home.

But analysts say Pentagon staff will be the first to face cuts. In a memo sent Monday, the Army Budget Office warned that a resolution to the standoff between Bush and Congress over the bill "is doubtful before the end of April."

It said managers needed to plan to stretch current funds into June, with operations in Iraq and Afghanistan exempt from the restrictions.

This is what cracks me up. Bush uses for one of his excuses that the army will have to stay longer and sooner.......yet he is doing it already. We're being sold a bill of goods.

[Professor]

This is one of the reasons so many of my friends refuse to sign up for anything resembling national service. They don't know what they will be getting into and don't trust the government to tell the truth.

[speedracer]

Everyone that joins knows that they'll do whatever they want with you. It's a part of the package. It sucks, don't get me wrong, but it's not like the boots on the ground didn't think something like this was coming.

[Professor]

It sucks, don't get me wrong, but it's not like the boots on the ground didn't think something like this was coming.


They might not have. With extending and extending service times, the people currently serving could have signed up who knows when.

[lily]

Everyone that joins knows that they'll do whatever they want with you. It's a part of the package. It sucks, don't get me wrong, but it's not like the boots on the ground didn't think something like this was coming.


Anyone who signs up now would. I don't know that much about the service. Have we ever used the National Guard in war before and didn't they sign up years ago, before all this started? Also those that did sign up before it got this bad and were told we would be greeted as liberators.....

[speedracer]

Anyone who signs up now would. I don't know that much about the service. Have we ever used the National Guard in war before and didn't they sign up years ago, before all this started?

It's been four years since the beginning of the war. Anyone still in has enlisted or re-upped since the war. There's no surprises to anyone in.

Also those that did sign up before it got this bad and were told we would be greeted as liberators.....

You should give soldiers more credit. They aren't as stupid as your average administration official.

[Caravaggio]

Hmmmm...I doubt a Girly Man would join up!

[Caravaggio]

He denied the order was a sign that the Army has passed its breaking point under the stresses of the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, saying the service has met or passed its recruiting and retention goals.

[Alonzo]

It helps to meet your goals when you keep lowering them.

[lily]

Pentagon officials say the recruiting success is not the result of any lowering of its quality standards. Pentagon spokesman Bryan Whitman told reporters today that 90 percent of all recruits have high school diplomas and nearly two-thirds have scored in the top half of military entrance exams.

The Army has received millions in new funding to pay for additional recruiters and added bonuses. According to Army spokesman Lt. Col. Bryan Hilferty about half the current total 51,612 new soldiers signed up this year have qualified for enlistment bonuses.


http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=2176450&page=1



Um..........you do know that your article is dated July 10, 2006, don't you? You do know since then that Bush ordered a troop surge of over 20,000, don't you?.....then decided, being the decider and all.......oooopppssss........looks like we'll need a couple more thousand.

Soldiers don't grow on trees.

[Caravaggio]

Pentagon officials say the recruiting success is not the result of any lowering of its quality standards. Pentagon spokesman Bryan Whitman told reporters today that 90 percent of all recruits have high school diplomas and nearly two-thirds have scored in the top half of military entrance exams.

The Army has received millions in new funding to pay for additional recruiters and added bonuses. According to Army spokesman Lt. Col. Bryan Hilferty about half the current total 51,612 new soldiers signed up this year have qualified for enlistment bonuses.


http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=2176450&page=1

[Alonzo]

Pentagon officials say the recruiting success is not the result of any lowering of its quality standards.

Lowering goals is not the same as lowering standards.

[Caravaggio]

Lowering goals is not the same as lowering standards

Please explain...

[Alonzo]

I can't believe I actually need to show someone the difference between goal and standard:

standard: a basis for comparison; a reference point against which other things can be evaluated; "the schools comply with federal standards"; "they set the measure for all subsequent work"

http://wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/webwn?s=standard

goal: the state of affairs that a plan is intended to achieve and that (when achieved) terminates behavior intended to achieve it; "the ends justify the means"


http://wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/webwn?s=goal

[Caravaggio]

I can't believe I actually need to show someone the difference between goal and standard:


Really?...explain the goal of the U.S. military versus their standard!

[Alonzo]

Ok. Now standard means a basis for comparison. So, to put into terms you may understand, the military wants people who meet certain requirements. If they want people with a high school degree, and you don't have one, then you don't meet the standard.

Goal means what you plan or want to achieve, in this case it is a numerical goal. So, in simpler terms, the military wants 100 people, so they need 100 people to meet their goal. Whether the 100 people are nuclear physicists, bodybuilders, or inbred paint eaters makes no difference in this case.

[Caravaggio]

Ok. Now standard means a basis for comparison. So, to put into terms you may understand, the military wants people who meet certain requirements. If they want people with a high school degree, and you don't have one, then you don't meet the standard.

Goal means what you plan or want to achieve, in this case it is a numerical goal. So, in simpler terms, the military wants 100 people, so they need 100 people to meet their goal. Whether the 100 people are nuclear physicists, bodybuilders, or inbred paint eaters makes no difference in this case.


The military automatically excludes people who have committed certain crimes. They include drug traffickers, recruits who have more than one felony on their record or people who have committed sexually violent crimes. A felony is defined as a crime that carries a sentence of a year or more in prison.

Bill Carr, the under secretary of military personnel policy, said the military granted waivers selectively and scrutinized a recruit’s full record, the nature of the crime, when it was committed, the degree of rehabilitation and references from teachers, employers, coaches and clergy members.

In many cases, Mr. Carr said, the applicant may have committed the crime at a young age and then stayed out of trouble. To his knowledge, he said, recruits who are issued moral waivers are not tracked once inside the military.

“If the community backs them, we are willing to take a hard look,� Mr. Carr said, referring to the waiver process, which includes checks of local, state and federal records.

The majority of moral waivers are for serious misdemeanors, most often committed by juveniles. As Douglas Smith, the public information officer for the Army’s recruiting command, said, “We understand that people make mistakes in their lives and they can overcome those mistakes.�

Fewer than 3 in 10 people ages 17 to 24 are fully qualified to join the Army. That means they have a high school diploma, have met aptitude test score requirements and fitness levels, and would not be barred for medical reasons, their sexual orientation or their criminal histories.


http://www.nytimes.com/2007/02/14/us/14military.html?ex=1329109200&en=06c953182b1c51bb&ei=5088&pa

[Alonzo]

This really is difficult for you. Ok, once again:

standard= reference point, level of quality, basis for comparison
goal= A set point to be reached, such as needing 100 troops to sign up

I have no idea why you don't understand these simple terms.

[Caravaggio]

This really is difficult for you. Ok, once again:

standard= reference point, level of quality, basis for comparison
goal= A set point to be reached, such as needing 100 troops to sign up

I have no idea why you don't understand these simple terms.



The military automatically excludes people who have committed certain crimes. They include drug traffickers, recruits who have more than one felony on their record or people who have committed sexually violent crimes. A felony is defined as a crime that carries a sentence of a year or more in prison.

Bill Carr, the under secretary of military personnel policy, said the military granted waivers selectively and scrutinized a recruit’s full record, the nature of the crime, when it was committed, the degree of rehabilitation and references from teachers, employers, coaches and clergy members.

In many cases, Mr. Carr said, the applicant may have committed the crime at a young age and then stayed out of trouble. To his knowledge, he said, recruits who are issued moral waivers are not tracked once inside the military.

“If the community backs them, we are willing to take a hard look,� Mr. Carr said, referring to the waiver process, which includes checks of local, state and federal records.

The majority of moral waivers are for serious misdemeanors, most often committed by juveniles. As Douglas Smith, the public information officer for the Army’s recruiting command, said, “We understand that people make mistakes in their lives and they can overcome those mistakes.�

Fewer than 3 in 10 people ages 17 to 24 are fully qualified to join the Army. That means they have a high school diploma, have met aptitude test score requirements and fitness levels, and would not be barred for medical reasons, their sexual orientation or their criminal histories.

[Alonzo]

Can I be excused? I need to go bang my head on the wall.

[girlygirl]

It's been four years since the beginning of the war. Anyone still in has enlisted or re-upped since the war. There's no surprises to anyone in.


Not really.Â*Â*My first enlistment period was for six years.Â*Â*I was stop lossed for almost 1 1/2 years and did not actually get out until I was in for a total of eight years without the chance to reenlist, which I declined. If you have a job they need people for and can't get recruits to sign up for they will stop loss your job and you cannot get out.Â*Â*They can also do this if your unit is scheduled for deployment.Â*Â*They can make you stay in through the deployment.

[speedracer]

It's been four years since the beginning of the war. Anyone still in has enlisted or re-upped since the war. There's no surprises to anyone in.


Not really. My first enlistment period was for six years. I was stop lossed for almost 1 1/2 years and did not actually get out until I was in for a total of eight years without the chance to reenlist, which I declined. If you have a job they need people for and can't get recruits to sign up for they will stop loss your job and you cannot get out. They can also do this if your unit is scheduled for deployment. They can make you stay in through the deployment.


Alrighty, you caught the one area I didn't specify. Yea, there is also stop loss, but the point I was making is that it wasn't a surprise to anyone in. Were you surprised at the stop loss? Probably more than a little pissed, but surprised?

I got out in June, 2001. I was holding my breath for every single day of the four years of my inactive reserve, waiting to be called back and then stop lossed, etc.

I think you get my point. By the time the end of the enlistment is on the horizon, we all know the score.

[Stoner]

#13,487,395 I won't be joining the army

I bet I know what the #1 reason is.

[Questerr]

Difference between US Army lowering its goals and standards:

*note: these are not exact numbers I'm just making examples.

Lowering standards:
-Dropping the required score on the ASVAB (the test to get in) from 36 to 25. (You can score a 36 by just answering "C")
-Allowing more wavers for crimes.
-Raising the maximum age and weight limits.

Lowering Goals:
-the army expects to recieve 3000 recruits in July, based on the numbers of recruits from January to June. So the set their quota at 2900. So that when they get 3005 recruits they can say they meet their goal.
-the next month they only expect to get 1500 recruits, so yet again they make their goal 1400 recruits.

To make it clear, the Army is manipulating the numbers of their recruiting goals in order to be able to say "we have met or exceeded our recruiting goals".

[Caravaggio]

To make it clear, the Army is manipulating the numbers of their recruiting goals in order to be able to say "we have met or exceeded our recruiting goals".



Actually they are just lowering standards a bit from the 90`s peace time VERY HIGH standard..historically the military has always been a way for people to redeem themselves from slight screw ups...As a former draftee I should know

[Caravaggio]

Pentagon officials say the recruiting success is not the result of any lowering of its quality standards. Pentagon spokesman Bryan Whitman told reporters today that 90 percent of all recruits have high school diplomas and nearly two-thirds have scored in the top half of military entrance exams.

The Army has received millions in new funding to pay for additional recruiters and added bonuses. According to Army spokesman Lt. Col. Bryan Hilferty about half the current total 51,612 new soldiers signed up this year have qualified for enlistment bonuses.


http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=2176450&page=1


I don`t believe the deomgraphic would change that much in a year.


Um..........you do know that your article is dated July 10, 2006, don't you? You do know since then that Bush ordered a troop surge of over 20,000, don't you?.....then decided, being the decider and all.......oooopppssss........looks like we'll need a couple more thousand.

Soldiers don't grow on trees.

[Caravaggio]

#13,487,395 I won't be joining the army

I bet I know what the #1 reason is.



"ROGER THAT"....

[Alonzo]

Oh, you think I'm gay? Here a nice big rainbow for you then:

http://img356.imageshack.us/img356/3065/rainbowflag1024768bt6.jpg

And a kiss:

http://img383.imageshack.us/img383/7783/istockphoto1076067pinksgk5.jpg

[Caravaggio]

Oh, you think I'm gay? Here a nice big rainbow for you then:

Nah..just a "Girly Man"...those are your words...NATCH?