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Caravaggio
04-09-2007, 11:41 PM
Why So Gloomy?


By Richard S. Lindzen
Newsweek International



April 16, 2007 issue - Judging from the media in recent months, the debate over global warming is now over. There has been a net warming of the earth over the last century and a half, and our greenhouse gas emissions are contributing at some level. Both of these statements are almost certainly true. What of it? Recently many people have said that the earth is facing a crisis requiring urgent action. This statement has nothing to do with science. There is no compelling evidence that the warming trend we've seen will amount to anything close to catastrophe. What most commentators—and many scientists—seem to miss is that the only thing we can say with certainly about climate is that it changes. The earth is always warming or cooling by as much as a few tenths of a degree a year; periods of constant average temperatures are rare. Looking back on the earth's climate history, it's apparent that there's no such thing as an optimal temperature—a climate at which everything is just right. The current alarm rests on the false assumption not only that we live in a perfect world, temperaturewise, but also that our warming forecasts for the year 2040 are somehow more reliable than the weatherman's forecast for next week.



A warmer climate could prove to be more beneficial than the one we have now. Much of the alarm over climate change is based on ignorance of what is normal for weather and climate. There is no evidence, for instance, that extreme weather events are increasing in any systematic way, according to scientists at the U.S. National Hurricane Center, the World Meteorological Organization and the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (which released the second part of this year's report earlier this month). Indeed, meteorological theory holds that, outside the tropics, weather in a warming world should be less variable, which might be a good thing.

In many other respects, the ill effects of warming are overblown. Sea levels, for example, have been increasing since the end of the last ice age. When you look at recent centuries in perspective, ignoring short-term fluctuations, the rate of sea-level rise has been relatively uniform (less than a couple of millimeters a year). There's even some evidence that the rate was higher in the first half of the twentieth century than in the second half. Overall, the risk of sea-level rise from global warming is less at almost any given location than that from other causes, such as tectonic motions of the earth's surface.

Many of the most alarming studies rely on long-range predictions using inherently untrustworthy climate models, similar to those that cannot accurately forecast the weather a week from now. Interpretations of these studies rarely consider that the impact of carbon on temperature goes down—not up—the more carbon accumulates in the atmosphere. Even if emissions were the sole cause of the recent temperature rise—a dubious proposition—future increases wouldn't be as steep as the climb in emissions.

Indeed, one overlooked mystery is why temperatures are not already higher. Various models predict that a doubling of CO2 in the atmosphere will raise the world's average temperature by as little as 1.5 degrees Celsius or as much as 4.5 degrees. The important thing about doubled CO2 (or any other greenhouse gas) is its "forcing"—its contribution to warming. At present, the greenhouse forcing is already about three-quarters of what one would get from a doubling of CO2. But average temperatures rose only about 0.6 degrees since the beginning of the industrial era, and the change hasn't been uniform—warming has largely occurred during the periods from 1919 to 1940 and from 1976 to 1998, with cooling in between. Researchers have been unable to explain this discrepancy.

Modelers claim to have simulated the warming and cooling that occurred before 1976 by choosing among various guesses as to what effect poorly observed volcanoes and unmeasured output from the sun have had. These factors, they claim, don't explain the warming of about 0.4 degrees C between 1976 and 1998. Climate modelers assume the cause must be greenhouse-gas emissions because they have no other explanation. This is a poor substitute for evidence, and simulation hardly constitutes explanation. Ten years ago climate modelers also couldn't account for the warming that occurred from about 1050 to 1300. They tried to expunge the medieval warm period from the observational record—an effort that is now generally discredited. The models have also severely underestimated short-term variability El Niño and the Intraseasonal Oscillation. Such phenomena illustrate the ability of the complex and turbulent climate system to vary significantly with no external cause whatever, and to do so over many years, even centuries.

Is there any point in pretending that CO2 increases will be catastrophic? Or could they be modest and on balance beneficial? India has warmed during the second half of the 20th century, and agricultural output has increased greatly. Infectious diseases like malaria are a matter not so much of temperature as poverty and public-health policies (like eliminating DDT). Exposure to cold is generally found to be both more dangerous and less comfortable.

Moreover, actions taken thus far to reduce emissions have already had negative consequences without improving our ability to adapt to climate change. An emphasis on ethanol, for instance, has led to angry protests against corn-price increases in Mexico, and forest clearing and habitat destruction in Southeast Asia. Carbon caps are likely to lead to increased prices, as well as corruption associated with permit trading. (Enron was a leading lobbyist for Kyoto because it had hoped to capitalize on emissions trading.) The alleged solutions have more potential for catastrophe than the putative problem. The conclusion of the late climate scientist Roger Revelle—Al Gore's supposed mentor—is worth pondering: the evidence for global warming thus far doesn't warrant any action unless it is justifiable on grounds that have nothing to do with climate.

Lindzen is the Alfred P. Sloan Professor of Meteorology at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology. His research has always been funded exclusively by the U.S. government. He receives no funding from any energy companies.
© 2007 Newsweek, Inc.

piratemonkey
04-10-2007, 01:48 PM
Congratulations.

You found one of the 10 reputable scientists in the world that is a Global Warming skeptic.

Unfortunately, posting a single person's op-ed piece, however educated the person, is not how science is done.Â*Â*The number of straw men, speculative assumptions and logical fallacies in this editorial is amazing (Enron, anyone?).:rolleyes:

I'll give you the same challenge that I've offered to Stoner about 10 times now.

If you think the scientific evidence for Global Warming is inadequate, please tell which peer-reviewed journal article you want to debate, post it, and we'll debate the science.



FYI, Linzen is generally not very well thought of in the scientific community because he makes patently, provably false statements like: "There is no consensus, unanimous or otherwise, about long-term climate trends or what casues them."

But there is a scientific consensus on the reality of anthropogenic climate change.
http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/full/306/5702/1686

Professor
04-10-2007, 07:43 PM
Congratulations.

You found one of the 10 reputable scientists in the world that is a Global Warming skeptic.


I'd like to know, who are the other 9?

potter
04-10-2007, 08:22 PM
The worst that could happen with global warming is the polar caps could melt and the oceans rise 200 feet. New oceanfront property folks! No big deal.....;)

Caravaggio
04-14-2007, 11:19 PM
Tuesday, 6 July, 2004, 16:07 GMT 17:07 UK

Sunspots reaching 1,000-year high
By Dr David Whitehouse
BBC News Online science editor



A new analysis shows that the Sun is more active now than it has been at anytime in the previous 1,000 years.

Scientists based at the Institute for Astronomy in Zurich used ice cores from Greenland to construct a picture of our star's activity in the past.

They say that over the last century the number of sunspots rose at the same time that the Earth's climate became steadily warmer.

This trend is being amplified by gases from fossil fuel burning, they argue.

'Little Ice Age'

Sunspots have been monitored on the Sun since 1610, shortly after the invention of the telescope. They provide the longest-running direct measurement of our star's activity.

The variation in sunspot numbers has revealed the Sun's 11-year cycle of activity as well as other, longer-term changes.

In particular, it has been noted that between about 1645 and 1715, few sunspots were seen on the Sun's surface.

This period is called the Maunder Minimum after the English astronomer who studied it.


Ice cores record climate trends back beyond human measurements
It coincided with a spell of prolonged cold weather often referred to as the "Little Ice Age". Solar scientists strongly suspect there is a link between the two events - but the exact mechanism remains elusive.

Over the past few thousand years there is evidence of earlier Maunder-like coolings in the Earth's climate - indicated by tree-ring measurements that show slow growth due to prolonged cold.

In an attempt to determine what happened to sunspots during these other cold periods, Dr Sami Solanki and colleagues have looked at concentrations of a form, or isotope, of beryllium in ice cores from Greenland.

The isotope is created by cosmic rays - high-energy particles from the depths of the galaxy.

The flux of cosmic rays reaching the Earth's surface is modulated by the strength of the solar wind, the charged particles that stream away from the Sun's surface.

And since the strength of the solar wind varies over the sunspot cycle, the amount of beryllium in the ice at a time in the past can therefore be used to infer the state of the Sun and, roughly, the number of sunspots.

Latest warming

Dr Solanki is presenting a paper on the reconstruction of past solar activity at Cool Stars, Stellar Systems And The Sun, a conference in Hamburg, Germany.

He says that the reconstruction shows the Maunder Minimum and the other minima that are known in the past thousand years.

But the most striking feature, he says, is that looking at the past 1,150 years the Sun has never been as active as it has been during the past 60 years.

Over the past few hundred years, there has been a steady increase in the numbers of sunspots, a trend that has accelerated in the past century, just at the time when the Earth has been getting warmer.

The data suggests that changing solar activity is influencing in some way the global climate causing the world to get warmer.

Over the past 20 years, however, the number of sunspots has remained roughly constant, yet the average temperature of the Earth has continued to increase.

This is put down to a human-produced greenhouse effect caused by the combustion of fossil fuels.

Labrocca
04-15-2007, 03:10 AM
however educated the person, is not how science is done.


And science is also not done by a concensus.Â*Â*I have posted numerous links to site that have creditable scientists and articles about global warming and YOU have not replied to them either!Â*Â*

I have already stated that none of us are scientists and we are not doing research on global warming. We are simply debating based on reports and articles on the subject.

Interestingly enough as the global warmist are popping out of the woodwork...the scientists are now starting to come out and say "hold up...this is BS".Â*Â*Simply because the movement of the global warmists has legs doesn't make it science.Â*Â*It has gained considerable momentum since Gore and his movie.Â*Â*Yet the trend from new research disputes much of the alarm and more and more I read that it's the sun that is producing the added heat.Â*Â*THE SUN...that giant fire ball in the sky!Â*Â*Yes I know it may be hard to imagine that THE SUN could cause heat but guess what..IT DOES!

Global warming is occuring...the answer isn't complicated.Â*Â*It's the damn sun which under SMALL changes can have great effects on the solar system.Â*Â*

Read all the sites you want...lots of discussion.

http://www.google.com/search?client=opera&rls=en&q=global+warming+from+the+sun&sourceid=opera&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8

I like this article.

Climate changes such as global warming may be due to changes in the sun rather than to the release of greenhouse gases on Earth.

Climatologists and astronomers speaking at the American Association for the Advancement of Science meeting in Philadelphia say the present warming may be unusual - but a mini ice age could soon follow.

The sun provides all the energy that drives our climate, but it is not the constant star it might seem.

Careful studies over the last 20 years show that its overall brightness and energy output increases slightly as sunspot activity rises to the peak of its 11-year cycle.

And individual cycles can be more or less active.

The sun is currently at its most active for 300 years.

That, say scientists in Philadelphia, could be a more significant cause of global warming than the emissions of greenhouse gases that are most often blamed.

The researchers point out that much of the half-a-degree rise in global temperature over the last 120 years occurred before 1940 - earlier than the biggest rise in greenhouse gas emissions.


Ancient trees reveal most warm spells are caused by the sun

Using ancient tree rings, they show that 17 out of 19 warm spells in the last 10,000 years coincided with peaks in solar activity.

They have also studied other sun-like stars and found that they spend significant periods without sunspots at all, so perhaps cool spells should be feared more than global warming.

The scientists do not pretend they can explain everything, nor do they say that attempts to reduce greenhouse gas emissions should be abandoned. But they do feel that understanding of our nearest star must be increased if the climate is to be understood.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/56456.stm

btw that's dated 1998!

Congratulations.

You found one of the 10 reputable scientists in the world that is a Global Warming skeptic.


10... Hardly...try nearly 15,000. You shouldn't just make up statistics.


Global average air temperature near Earth's surface rose 0.74 ± 0.18 °C (1.3 ± 0.32 °F) during the last century. The Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) concludes, "most of the observed increase in globally averaged temperatures since the mid-20th century is very likely due to the observed increase in anthropogenic greenhouse gas concentrations,"[1] which leads to warming of the surface and lower atmosphere by increasing the greenhouse effect. These conclusions have been endorsed by more than 30 scientific societies and academies of science, including all of the national academies of science of the major industrialized states, however 14,700 individual scientists reportedly expressed disagreement with some or all of these conclusions .

Caravaggio
04-16-2007, 01:43 AM
Little Ice Age

The Maunder Minimum coincided with the middle — and coldest part — of the so-called Little Ice Age, during which Europe and North America, and perhaps much of the rest of the world, were subjected to bitterly cold winters. Whether there is a causal connection between low sunspot activity and cold winters is the subject of ongoing debate (e.g. see Global Warming).

Caravaggio
04-16-2007, 01:46 AM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maunder_Minimum#Little_Ice_Age

piratemonkey
04-16-2007, 01:59 PM
however educated the person, is not how science is done.


And science is also not done by a concensus.

Uh... yes, it is.

Concensus of the scientists who know the peer-reviewed science.Â*Â*That's exactly how science is done.Â*Â*And they are correct the overwhelming majority of the time.


Â*Â*I have posted numerous links to site that have creditable scientists and articles about global warming and YOU have not replied to them either!

You haven't posted a link to a single peer-reviewed journal article.

I've posted dozens.


I have already stated that none of us are scientists
Speak for yourself.


and we are not doing research on global warming. We are simply debating based on reports and articles on the subject.

The most accurate of which are primary peer-reviewed journal articles.


Interestingly enough as the global warmist are popping out of the woodwork...
*laugh*
Is that the new propaganda catch phrase you got from Rush?


Yet the trend from new research disputes much of the alarmÂ*


Prove it.

If the "trend" in the research is what you say it is... List all of the recent research published and show us that more than 50% of it is on your side of this argument.

You won't.
You can't.
Because it's not true.

And I'll keep calling you on this blatantly false statement until you either admit that it's wrong, or pony up the proof.

Going around making blatantly incorrect statements like this isn't helping your cause.


THE SUN...that giant fire ball in the sky!Â*Â*Yes I know it may be hard to imagine that THE SUN could cause heat but guess what..IT DOES!

Simplistic arguments like this may convince some, but I hate to break it to ya... it's a little more complicated than that.


I like this article.

Climate changes such as global warming may be due to changes in the sun rather than to the release of greenhouse gases on Earth....


http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/56456.stm

btw that's dated 1998!
:D:D
Are you kidding me?

You acknowledge that the article is dated 1998, but don't understand what's wrong with that fact?

Hint: We've done a bit more research since 1998.Â*Â*I wan't convinced we had the data to conclude global warming was anthropogenic in 1998.Â*Â*I was on your side until about 5 years ago, when there was a flood of new studies published.



Congratulations.

You found one of the 10 reputable scientists in the world that is a Global Warming skeptic.


10...Â*Â*Hardly...try nearly 15,000.Â*Â*You shouldn't just make up statistics.
a) If you didn't know the number "10" was a sarcastic joke and not meant to be taken literally, you need help. (I think you did.)
b) Your side uses deceptive statistics all day long.

For example:


Global average air temperature near Earth's surface rose 0.74 ± 0.18 °C (1.3 ± 0.32 °F) during the last century. The Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) concludes, "most of the observed increase in globally averaged temperatures since the mid-20th century is very likely due to the observed increase in anthropogenic greenhouse gas concentrations,"[1] which leads to warming of the surface and lower atmosphere by increasing the greenhouse effect. These conclusions have been endorsed by more than 30 scientific societies and academies of science, including all of the national academies of science of the major industrialized states, however 14,700 individual scientists reportedly expressed disagreement with some or all of these conclusions .


It's curious you didn't provide a link for this one.

I know why.

The list is one that's >5 years old and been propagated over the internet ever since.

Again, 5 years ago, the jury was still out.Â*Â*I was a global warming skeptic 5 years ago.Â*Â*That's the great thing about science... we keep learning new things.

If you made a list of scientists who didn't think global warming was real 30 years ago, you'd have 100% of them on your side!!!

Caravaggio
04-18-2007, 01:04 AM
You acknowledge that the article is dated 1998, but don't understand what's wrong with that fact?

Hint: We've done a bit more research since 1998. I wan't convinced we had the data to conclude global warming was anthropogenic in 1998. I was on your side until about 5 years ago, when there was a flood of new studies published.

Gee...I thought climatology was a study of Earth`s environment over millions of years..why quibble about a decade?

mark777
06-05-2007, 12:23 PM
Global warming rally cut short by cold weather
MARTIN GRIFFITH
ASSOCIATED PRESS
Posted: 4/15/2007

"More than two dozen demonstrators braved cold, wet weather Saturday in Reno to attend a rally designed to draw attention to global warming.

The event was cut short by heavy rain and sleet, said organizer Lisa Stiller of the Northern Nevada Coalition for Climate Change.

"It's kind of disappointing that the weather kept people away," Stiller said. "But, we still think it (climate change) is something that people should talk about."

The storm prevented the use of solar ovens for a potluck picnic, Stiller said, and caused the planned two-hour dem
"

http://news.rgj.com/apps/pbcs.dll/ar...0349/1002/NEWS

Mayberry
06-10-2007, 08:04 PM
Global warming rally cut short by cold weather
:D I snorted beer out my nose when I read that!!! The epitome of irony. :P