ECW targets Stoner as the butt of his "jokes".

[Labrocca]

Members here are NOT to be attacked personally. The continued barrage on Stoner by ECW is getting intolerable. While Stoner himself has not reported any of these it has become obvious and apparent that the rules of the site are being broken on a continued basis by ECW. This is now blatant and will no longer be tolerated by me or the staff. The below quotes are NOT in the spirit of this sites mission. They are not in the spirit of open honest debate. Instead they are personal hit pieces. I don't see anyone making fun of ECW on a daily basis. He should respect all the members here even if he doesn't respect their views.

These are quotes I easily found from just the past week.

"Spoken like the resident drug addict that you are."

"You're the perfect person to talk about maturity: it's the unreachable goal for an illicit drug user."

"Especially when it's stoned."

"Are you stealing Stoner's weed and smoking it? Are you kidding me?"

"He's a troll. No more no less."

"Man, have you taken a page out of the Stoner Posting Manual lately or what?"

"I guess when you are that stoned you fair to realize that Chimpy is the Worst."


Now I could have sent ECW a PM. But honestly...I think he would just ignore me, dismiss me or worse...argue. I am posting this in public because I want ECW and everyone to know this is NOT acceptable to me. Lately I haven't been posting as viligantly as I normally do. That does not mean the rules are to be ignored.

[Buck Laser]

Perhaps ECW has been a little over the top, but the fact is that I can't recall a single cogent argument Stoner has posted. His posts have been either smartass one-liners, something all of us have done, perhaps to excess, or links to news articles he rarely bothers to read carefully. I think it's completely fair to say that he doesn't engage in real discussion or argument, but merely fires back with personal attacks.

What seems to happen most often here is that when liberals post a news story or argument, Boogy leads the attack with the charge that it's "partisan" or "out of context." Well, hell yes, it's partisan": this is a political forum, in case no one had noticed. For the most part, the responses seem to me to have been lamentably one-sided, because attacks on partisanship seem to be all the conservatives can muster, while the liberals do seem to be a little more creative with 'yes, but' responses.

It's mostly as if we're all standing about a thousand yards away from each other, firing scattershot in a way that rarely scores a real point. Logical arguments in political matters don't depend on the niceties of the rules of debate, but on the interest and ability to make cogent points. It's not a real debate if someone disagrees with me, says 'that's your opinion, and fires back with a contrary opinion, claiming to have "refuted" me. Or, if we're dealing with something this administration allegedly did, it's not a refutation to say "but Clinton did it."

A while back, Labrocca, I think you actually admitted that global warming might be real, and suggested that we ought to discuss what we can do about it. But since then, for whatever reason, damned near ALL the conservatives have decided to treat it all as a big joke, and any attempt at discussion immediately gets stoned by conservatives who ridicule the whole idea--mostly, apparently--because it's been a bad winter.

Personally, I think it's time to stand back, take a LOOOONNNGGG look at whether Democratic Forum is worth visiting anymore if all we're gonna get is the same old shit we've had for the past few weeks. In no sense am I claiming that the conservatives are completely responsible for the state of affairs, though. In fact, there are some pretty smart libertarians on the forum, and at least one conservative (I won't name him, because I don't want it ALL to be about personalities) who expresses many opinions that I agree with, and a good many more that I'd LIKE to agree with. And by the way, several people of EVERY political bent have been helpful and supportive to me via PMs during my recent and ongoing health issues.

What to do? Well sir, YOU own the forum, and I think you need to decide which way it should go. But I really don't believe ECW is is your villain, even though he regularly pisses off two or three regular posters. I'm kinda disappointed when he's not here, because then CWN is the only entertainment, and I feel like I have to go take a bath after I read his posts. By the way, I'm extremely glad we have the two Islamic posters, because they finally bring some sense of reality to discussions about that faith.

I don't envy you, but I wish you well.

[Elrathin]

Funny, these are the comments from Stoner I have found in the past week:

"I think ECW is off his meds again.

Increase the dosage, son...increase the dosage."

Quote from someone: "Brain dead jerk offs that think Bush can do no wrong".
Reply from Stoner: "ECW?"

When replying to ECW comment "Typical hypocrite comment from a lib. "

"Condi Rice is smarter than any 5 liberals on this board put together."

When replying to one of my posts "Yeah, they probably wouldn't let you log on to moveon.org to find out what you're supposed to say next live on the air.

Plus in a live debate you would have a hard time dealing with direct issues instead of changing the subject like you do here. It's a whole other ballpark."

Personal attacks are being thrown around by Stoner as well. Don't even try to play Stoner as an innocent, he's dished it out himself quite a few times as well.

[NortheastCynic]

Listen, I'm not taking sides in this but I don't agree with this at all: Perhaps ECW has been a little over the top, but the fact is that I can't recall a single cogent argument Stoner has posted. His posts have been either smartass one-liners, something all of us have done, perhaps to excess, or links to news articles he rarely bothers to read carefully. I think it's completely fair to say that he doesn't engage in real discussion or argument, but merely fires back with personal attacks.Even if what you're saying about Stoner were true 100% of the time the question one must ask is: Are ECDubs [who I love to read and hope he stays at this site] personal jabs cooling a potentially quarrelsome situation down or exacerbating it? In some cases they just make it worse.

As I said, I'm not taking sides, but "he did it first" is no legit argument here.

-NC

[Labrocca]

Funny, these are the comments from Stoner I have found in the past week:

"I think ECW is off his meds again.

Increase the dosage, son...increase the dosage."

Quote from someone: "Brain dead jerk offs that think Bush can do no wrong".
Reply from Stoner: "ECW?"

When replying to ECW comment "Typical hypocrite comment from a lib. "

"Condi Rice is smarter than any 5 liberals on this board put together."

When replying to one of my posts "Yeah, they probably wouldn't let you log on to moveon.org to find out what you're supposed to say next live on the air.

Plus in a live debate you would have a hard time dealing with direct issues instead of changing the subject like you do here. It's a whole other ballpark."

Personal attacks are being thrown around by Stoner as well. Don't even try to play Stoner as an innocent, he's dished it out himself quite a few times as well.



Fair enough that mud gets slung around from both sides...however..some of your comments you quote are not even personal attacks.

"Typical hypocrite comment from a lib."...if you regard that as a personal attack then how about the 1000+ times ECW uses neocon?

Either way..I am asking that this behavior STOP. WHOEVER IT'S FROM. Every now and then we all need a refresher course in civil debate. Today is the crash course.

I am asking politely...please try to refrain from personal attacks. Let's try our hardest to stick to the subject matter and keep the debates civil. Debate the topic not the poster. PLEASE.

[Stoner]

Wanted to apologize in person for my part. I'm usually pretty civil but do get carried away from time to time and press some buttons. I've actually become an expert at pressing ECWs buttons.

Anyways, I'll cut back some. I like this site and want to see it grow. I definitly don't want to be a part of the reason it doesn't.

PS - Me and Lily will probably continue to bash each other but it's more of that brother/sister thing where we hate each other but crack each other up at the same time. In fact here's a scene from us yesterday...Lily's the one in green. http://planetsmilies.net/tongue-smiley-8865.gif (http://planetsmilies.net)

Just kidding. I love good ol' Lily. I don't hate her too much.

[lily]

I wasn't going to participate in this thread, but I can't let stoner's comments go without.........well commenting.


PS - Me and Lily will probably continue to bash each other but it's more of that brother/sister thing where we hate each other but crack each other up at the same time. In fact here's a scene from us yesterday...Lily's the one in green.


Stoner.........you flashed me man boobs yesterday, not someone pushing a girl down!!!!! Own up to it!:P

[Stoner]

Stoner.........you flashed me man boobs yesterday

That wasn't man-boobs. That was you flashing your sweater-cows for beer money http://planetsmilies.net/happy-smiley-808.gif (http://planetsmilies.net)

I kid, I kid!!!!!

[lily]

Oh trust me dear, if I were flashing you'd remember and it's be a hell of a lot more than man boobs!

[Stoner]

I love boobies. Nothing better than a good pair of skin-sacks. Underrated in my opinion.

[Elrathin]

Oh trust me dear, if I were flashing you'd remember and it's be a hell of a lot more than man boobs!


Holy Shit, send me pics....

Oh wait, I didn't say that really I didn't send me pictures :)

[Stoner]

Holy Shit, send me pics....



Easy, Thumper. Don't make me get the hose.

[Elrathin]

Easy, Thumper. Don't make me get the hose.


If I were to announce I got the pics, I have no doubt there would be a PM from you saying share them :D

[Stoner]

Easy, Thumper. Don't make me get the hose.


If I were to announce I got the pics, I have no doubt there would be a PM from you saying share them :D


LOL. Funny, but not my style.

[Elrathin]

LOL. Funny, but not my style.


We'll see, Lily, my inbox is empty still :D

[lily]

El, it saddens me that you have forgotten what I look like. So there is no fighting, I'll post my picture here.........although if you want me to send a picture of me flashing, then I will have to PM it to you. Just let me know!










http://www.randykerr.com/ftp/images/k000116f.jpg

Yep.....it's me! Enjoy!

[Stoner]

Mmmmmmmmmmmm, you hot little mama!

Throw you down and do you National Geographic style!

[ECW]

Members here are NOT to be attacked personally. The continued barrage on Stoner by ECW is getting intolerable. While Stoner himself has not reported any of these it has become obvious and apparent that the rules of the site are being broken on a continued basis by ECW. This is now blatant and will no longer be tolerated by me or the staff. The below quotes are NOT in the spirit of this sites mission. They are not in the spirit of open honest debate. Instead they are personal hit pieces. I don't see anyone making fun of ECW on a daily basis. He should respect all the members here even if he doesn't respect their views.

These are quotes I easily found from just the past week.

"Spoken like the resident drug addict that you are."

"You're the perfect person to talk about maturity: it's the unreachable goal for an illicit drug user."

"Especially when it's stoned."

"Are you stealing Stoner's weed and smoking it? Are you kidding me?"

"He's a troll. No more no less."

"Man, have you taken a page out of the Stoner Posting Manual lately or what?"

"I guess when you are that stoned you fair to realize that Chimpy is the Worst."


Now I could have sent ECW a PM. But honestly...I think he would just ignore me, dismiss me or worse...argue. I am posting this in public because I want ECW and everyone to know this is NOT acceptable to me. Lately I haven't been posting as viligantly as I normally do. That does not mean the rules are to be ignored.


Not to interrupt the Stoner-Lily cybersexcapade here but I just came upon this thread this morning.

First, Labrocca, when have I EVER ignored a PM from you? I remember Boogy just last week telling me to take my issues with you to PM and that he wouldn't respond to them in public. I retorted that you made it a public matter when you posted your personal attack on me in the forum. I responded to that personal attack a week later after I had calmed down enough (as Lily will testify to) and took you to task. You responded by locking the thread. If the owner of the site is going to engage in personal attacks, I sure as hell ain't gonna be your bitch about it. You'll get back from me in spades anything you have heaped my way. It's the one thing I have learned about conservatives on line: they got no problem attacking Liberals but they squeal like stuck pigs when Liberals attack back. My real name ISN'T Alan Combes.

Then, you attacked me again in the thread about the New York Times and Al Gore. This time I gave it back to you right away. You deleted both your comments and mine and started this thread which is just another attack thread, as far as I can see.

You never ONCE tried to deal with me via PM. Had you done so in the beginning when you decided to attack me as a terrorist sympathizer and as someone who would use material from al-Qaeda to pull this country down, you could have avoided this whole nasty mess. An apology would have defused all of this. But when the owner of the board attacks a member not once or twice but now three times, this is the bullshit you wind up with.

Funny thing, my closest friend on this board is also the one that has dinged me on numerous occasions for stepping over the line. Ask her if I have ever complained about the unfairness of her dings. Ask her if I ever ARGUED about them. The answer is NO. I know you didn't get dinged for whipping your asshole comments on me before and you certainly didn't get one for trying to jump my ass in the NYT/Gore thread. I know where the line is and I know what a personal attack is. The question is, do you?

If you are not seeing "anyone making fun of ECW on a daily basis" then you aren't looking very hard. Of course, I have found that, much like Ann Coulter, conservatives take shots at people that they call jokes that no one else seems to think are jokes. The person that you are defending in this thread makes it a habit of dumping off topic comments in almost every thread that he posts except in threads he starts. Then he complains mightily about thread hijacking. Pot meet kettle.

Elrathin made a pretty good start at showing you what a typical post is from our resident thread hijacker but did you go back and look at the CONTEXT for every one of the posts that you quoted from me. I doubt it. You would have seen thread hijacking to an artform. He rarely has anything cogent to post on a subject so he usually posts a wise-ass remark. I enjoy a good joke as well as the next guy but when every thread is full of them you have to attribute that to a lack of serious intent to debate. That's never been my problem as many posters who have come up against me can testify. I respect everyone's views until they give me reason to believe that they are not here to debate but to press someone's buttons, which is just another way of conducting a personal attack. Serious debaters get my attention. Personal attacks get my attention as well.

I'll take stoner at his word that he intends to "cut back some."

You want the personal attacks to stop, Labrocca? No problem. You first.

(And if you really want to "talk" to me, try the PM function. Boogy does. So does Lily. It works.)

[Labrocca]

I admitted my wrongdoing in that thread where I deleted my posts. I spoke with my staff about it and even a couple members via PM. So I admit...I lost my cool. Yes...you grind me on a personal level. No butts about it. However I never said you weren't fair.

I spoke with Stoner about this too...he apologizes in this thread publically. I am asking you, staff, members, and I to be MORE CIVIL overall on the site. It's imho getting a little hot in here. It's not out of control...but it is imho not a site I want to particpate in if I read a thread and it has a handful of personal attacks in it. The site got a traffic boost this week. We need to be more diligent in looking like an attractive site to join with friendly people and honest open debate. That goes for everyone.

I know you didn't get dinged for whipping your asshole comments on me before and you certainly didn't get one for trying to jump my ass in the NYT/Gore thread.

I don't get dinged...I get smacked hard. This is my site. I lose members and respect when I do something stupid. As the site owner...I can't be "hated" or viewed as unfair...especially on a site like this...people will just leave. I knew that since day one. Any member I ban or chastise becomes a big deal. Look at the past bullshit with PAD or Flea_bit_monkey. It sucks when I fuck up.

One thing I don't notice though your entire post is any acceptable of responsibilty on your part. Instead I see defensiveness. I will tell you now and clearly. That if you feel slighted by stoner or any other member your recourse is not to attack back with more venom. It's unacceptable. If you feel a member has attacked you...report it. It's the ONLY OPTION I will allow.

Maybe what you don't understand is that attacking ANY member of my site is an attack on ME. That's why Flea_bit_monkey was banned. I like the guy...I had no personal problems with him. However...he was a problem for the site...that's a BIG problem for me. Maybe you think your comments were only to Stoner...but they aren't. This is my house...I have rules...you disrespect me and my house when you break them. Not acceptable.

The reason this isn't a PM convo is because it's not just for your ears...it's for everyone to read and understand. Also I have not been successful dealing with problem members via PM. I was very doubtful a PM with you would have gotten very far.

[ECW]

I was very doubtful a PM with you would have gotten very far.

And that's the one thing you didn't know about me because you never tried it.

One thing I don't notice though your entire post is any acceptable of responsibilty on your part.

I have accepted responsibility for things in the past on this site and I probably will do so again. I have apologized in the past on this site and will probably do so again. I decided to wait until I saw your response before went and did either.

You will have civil debate from me from now on. I apologize for allowing things to get out of hand.

[Labrocca]

I have accepted responsibility for things in the past on this site and I probably will do so again. I have apologized in the past on this site and will probably do so again. I decided to wait until I saw your response before went and did either.

You will have civil debate from me from now on. I apologize for allowing things to get out of hand.


You don't realize how much I appreciate that from you. I also apologize for being a prick to you in that thread. And things will get out of hand every now and then...it's inevitable. How we deal with it and move on is something we seem to be getting better at though. :) I have also discussed with staff some changes for dealing with issues similar to this in the future. We continue to adjust our tactics and rules for the betterment of the site, it's members, and the debates.

OK...seems everyone is sorry and happy again and no one was banned! YEAH for us!

btw...I still invite you (ECW that is) to participate with me in a DFcast. We can try and record one and see how it goes...it's not something live so if it sucks we don't have to publish it. We can just record a 30 minute show and have a few select people here it and get opinions.