U.S. soldier gets 100 years for Iraq rape, killings

[lily]

Link (http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/02/22/ussoldier.rape.ap/index.html?eref=rss_topstories)
U.S. soldier gets 100 years for Iraq rape, killings
POSTED: 10:29 p.m. EST, February 22, 2007



FORT CAMPBELL, Kentucky (AP) -- A U.S. soldier was sentenced to 100
years in prison Thursday for the gang rape and murder of an Iraqi girl and
the killing of her family last year.

Sgt. Paul E. Cortez, 24, also was given a dishonorable discharge. He
will be eligible for parole in 10 years under the terms of his plea
agreement.

Cortez, of Barstow, California, pleaded guilty this week to four
counts of felony murder, rape and conspiracy to rape in a case considered
among the worst atrocities by U.S. military personnel in Iraq.

In his plea agreement, he said he conspired with three other soldiers
from the Fort Campbell-based 101st Airborne Division to rape 14-year-old
Abeer Qassim al-Janabi. The girl, her parents and a younger sister were all
killed.

Earlier Thursday, tears rolled down Cortez's face as he apologized for
the rape and murders. He said he could not explain why he took part.

"I still don't have an answer," Cortez told the judge. "I don't know
why. I wish I hadn't. The lives of four innocent people were taken. I want
to apologize for all of the pain and suffering I have caused the al-Janabi
family."

The military judge hearing the case, Col. Stephen R. Henley, issued a
sentence of life in prison without parole, the maximum for the charges.
Under military law, the defendant is given the lesser sentence unless he
violates terms of the plea agreement, which requires Cortez to testify
against others charged in the case.

Psychologist Charles Figley testified that Cortez and the other
soldiers likely suffered stress brought on by fatigue and trauma.

"It eats you up," Figley said. "It's a horrible thing. This is not
unique. We've seen this in other wars."

Five soldiers who served with Cortez in Iraq testified that his
actions were out of character and described the hardships of war they
experienced, including sleep deprivation and the lack of running water.

"I just never would have seen it coming," said Staff Sgt. Tim Briggs,
who has known Cortez for five years and served with him in Iraq.

Prosecutors said the stress was no excuse for the actions of Cortez
and the other soldiers from the 101st Airborne Division, based at Fort
Campbell.

On Wednesday, Cortez described raping the girl in her family's home in
Mahmoudiya last March, along with Spc. James Barker, 24. Barker pleaded
guilty in November to rape and murder and was sentenced to 90 years in
military prison.

Cortez said this week that former private Steven D. Green raped the
girl in front of him; shot her father, mother and sister; and then shot her
in the head. He also testified that the soldiers attempted to burn the
girl's body; burned their own clothes; and threw the murder weapon, an
AK-47, into a canal in an attempt to dispose of the evidence.

Cortez was found not guilty of more serious charges of premeditated
murder and conspiracy to premeditated murder.

Pfcs. Jesse Spielman, 22, and Bryan Howard, 19, await courts-martial.
Green, who is accused of being the ringleader but was discharged from the
military before being charged, will be prosecuted in a federal court in
Kentucky.

[Guitarmitch]

Good.

[lily]

I agree, if nothing else it shows that the US Army won't put up with this sort of thing.

[BoogyMan]

They guy should face the same end as he showed that poor girl, 100 years will do however.

[Red Dragon]

I doubt that he'll live a hundred years but it does seem an acceptable punishment.

[CheesyMuslim]

Sorry bout that,

1. But sure these guys did wrong.
2. And seeing they thought that they may not come back alive they did this.
3. And seeing that they did what they did, taking advantage of a young girl and raping her.
4. They did it out of desperation.
5. I feel for these guys, and wonder why they have to now pay for this.
6. Maybe they should shell out some cash to the family, and call it even.
7. They do even worse to each other and nothing happens.

Regards,
SirJamesofTexas

[lily]

Sorry bout that,

1. But sure these guys did wrong.
2. And seeing they thought that they may not come back alive they did this.
3. And seeing that they did what they did, taking advantage of a young girl and raping her.
4. They did it out of desperation.
5. I feel for these guys, and wonder why they have to now pay for this.
6. Maybe they should shell out some cash to the family, and call it even.
7. They do even worse to each other and nothing happens.

Regards,
SirJamesofTexas



Chess.......I don't know how they can just give some cash to the family and call it even........when they murdered the whole family.

YOU of all people excusing rape! According to you, they were just a bunch of mis-understood lads. Shame on you.

[Alonzo]

Sorry bout that,

1. But sure these guys did wrong.
2. And seeing they thought that they may not come back alive they did this.
3. And seeing that they did what they did, taking advantage of a young girl and raping her.
4. They did it out of desperation.
5. I feel for these guys, and wonder why they have to now pay for this.
6. Maybe they should shell out some cash to the family, and call it even.
7. They do even worse to each other and nothing happens.

Regards,
SirJamesofTexas


Well, that just about confirms what I've always though. No one who would want to be taken seriously would come out and say that a person who rapes and kills someone, and isn't 10 years old, shouldn't be put in prison or in a psychiatric hospital.

[CheesyMuslim]

Sorry bout that,

1. Hey lily, I did say they did wrong.
2. And that's saying enough.
3. People do wrong every day.
4. Some get caught, some don't.
5. I think they getting caught doing this wrong was right.
6. And now they have to pay.
7. But day in and day out they do as much and worse to each other, and no one goes to jail.

Regards,
SirJamesofTexas

[lily]

Sorry bout that,

1. Hey lily, I did say they did wrong.
2. And that's saying enough.
3. People do wrong every day.
4. Some get caught, some don't.
5. I think they getting caught doing this wrong was right.
6. And now they have to pay.


Regards,
SirJamesofTexas


Chess........the only reason "they got caught" was because someone had a conscience.

7. But day in and day out they do as much and worse to each other, and no one goes to jail.

I don't know why you keep sticking up for them. I thought as American soldiers we were better than that?

[BoogyMan]

Chess, man, these guys raped a child and murdered her and her family. This is not typical of our military, but the guys who do these kinds of things have GOT to pay for it.

100 years works but they deserve much more.

[Elrathin]

1. Hey lily, I did say they did wrong.


From a Previous Quote of Chess the Rapist Supporter.


5. I feel for these guys, and wonder why they have to now pay for this.


So these soldiers RAPED AND KILLED HER FAMILY AND YOU WONDER WHY THEY HAVE TO PAY FOR THIS?!?!?!

CHESS YOU ARE ONE SICK FUCK and yes, I will take a warning on that because anyone who has to question why a rapist needs to pay for a crime like that is sick.

[Alonzo]

Calm down el. Chess is simply trying to piss people off. I'm sure he's sitting at his pc laughing at how upset people are getting at him comments.

[lily]

In all fairness, Zo.........there are just some things that are not a joke.

[Elrathin]

Calm down el. Chess is simply trying to piss people off. I'm sure he's sitting at his pc laughing at how upset people are getting at him comments.


Again, my comments stand, you don't joke nor laugh about rape.

If he is truly laughing about that then he is sicker than I originally thought.

[Elrathin]

In all fairness, Zo.........there are just some things that are not a joke.


Thank you Lily. Having a friend who was raped that is something that I take VERY seriously.

[Alonzo]

Wow, wait. I didn't mean it was acceptable to joke about. I just figure that the more upset people get the more likely he is to keep doing it.

As for whether chess is sick or not, no comment.

[lily]

My mistake, I'm sorry. I should have known you better. It's just that Chess seems to think nothing of this.

[Elrathin]

Wow, wait. I didn't mean it was acceptable to joke about.

I know that Zo, I didn't accuse you otherwise.



I just figure that the more upset people get the more likely he is to keep doing it.


And like I said if he is doing it for that reason, he is sicker than I originally thought.

[CheesyMuslim]

Sorry bout that,

1. But this behavior happens in just about every war man has been involved with sense the begining of time.
2. Sure its bad, and more likely to continue.
3. This war, that war, all wars.
4. Why does a man see its time to do this anyway?
5. In the heated battle, they snap I would suspect.
6. And go off and do this.
7. Its sad yes, but these men need help more than jail time.

Regards,
SirJamesofTexas

[Elrathin]

7. Its sad yes, but these men need help more than jail time.


They need to be raped themselves, then shot. And anyone that excuses rape is a sick individual that deserves the same fate.

[Alonzo]

See, shooting them is kind of pointless. It ends it quickly.

What you really need to do to these guys is what is done to kidnapped women who are forced into prostitution. You get dozens of people rape them over a few days, one after the other. You beat them if they resist. Typically they give up hope and become compliant.

Then you use them for target practice. Not just any target practice either. Use them to train soldiers in non lethal shooting, such as shooting people in their arms and legs, while avoiding the chest and head.

[Buck Laser]

Only Cheesy would dismiss it that way. One of these days I'm gonna do a compilation of bright things he's said here. But he'd like the attention, wouldn't he?:(

[BoogyMan]

How anyone could call for restraint of justice for the perpetrators of such a heinous crime is beyond me. The guy who got the 100 years is getting much less than what he deserved.

[CheesyMuslim]

Sorry bout that,

1. But judges here in USA forgive crimes against the death of children every day.
2. Also child molesters get off clean every day in USA.
3. Other hideous crimes get passed over every day in USA.
4. This bleeding hearts, here, for our men in USA uniform is neolib bash fest, and I disagree with it, so I am saying so.
5. Like it or not, I am correct here.

Regards,
SirJamesofTexas

[Elrathin]

As I said Chess, It is sick that you stick up and excuse people that raped and killed a little girl just because they wore a uniform. And my comment above about supporters of rapists still stands.

[CheesyMuslim]

Sorry bout that,

1. But it doesn't surprise me that Elrathin would feel this way.
2. Seeing he's a neoliberal, who condones the snatching of a baby out of a women's womb and cut to pieces this is commonly know as standard neolib reality.
3. I say that you are the real criminal, not these war weary soldiers.

Regards,
SirJamesofTexas

[Elrathin]

1. But it doesn't surprise me that Elrathin would feel this way.
2. Seeing he's a neoliberal, who condones the snatching of a baby out of a women's womb and cut to pieces this is commonly know as standard neolib reality.
3. I say that you are the real criminal, not these war weary soldiers.


I'd invite someone that had an abortion into my home. Would you invite a rapists into yours for your sweet wife?

[lily]

Sorry bout that,

1. But it doesn't surprise me that Elrathin would feel this way.
2. Seeing he's a neoliberal, who condones the snatching of a baby out of a women's womb and cut to pieces this is commonly know as standard neolib reality.
3. I say that you are the real criminal, not these war weary soldiers.

Regards,
SirJamesofTexas


You know Chess.........I would try and deflect the topic if I were you too. I've seen a side of you that........well leaves me ill.

This animal stalked this young girl. He went into her house, raped her while others held her family in another room. Then they shot them all, set the house on fire, cleaned themselves up and went on their merry way.

[CheesyMuslim]

Sorry bout that,

1. This isn't deflection.
2. Its plain facts.
3. Some men snap under near death experiences.
4. These men did.
5. Find out if they were rapist's and murder's, before they went to Iraq, then get back to me.

Regards,
SirJamesofTexas

[lily]

Odd, you'll easily dismiss someone that raped a child, killed her entire family, but scream from the top of the rooftops about how God hates homosexuals.

[CheesyMuslim]

Sorry bout that,

1. But I said it was wrong, now didn't I?
2. But they are having to pay for it, not I, am I right?
3. If I was the one who snapped under near death reality, I would feel cheated to have to go to jail.

Regards,
SirJamesofTexas

[Buck Laser]

Sorry bout that,

1. But I said it was wrong, now didn't I?
2. But they are having to pay for it, not I, am I right?
3. If I was the one who snapped under near death reality, I would feel cheated to have to go to jail.

Regards,
SirJamesofTexas


Cheesy backpedaling? I've seen everything now. I can die happy.

[CheesyMuslim]

Sorry bout that,





Sorry bout that,

1. But I said it was wrong, now didn't I?
2. But they are having to pay for it, not I, am I right?
3. If I was the one who snapped under near death reality, I would feel cheated to have to go to jail.

Regards,
SirJamesofTexas


Cheesy backpedaling? I've seen everything now. I can die happy.


1. This isn't back peddling, its forward peddling.
2. I said all along what they did was wrong.
3. I also have been saying that in a war zone, some men snap.
4. When men think they will die, they say to themselves,' Ahh what the hell might as well get laid".
5. For sure these guys were neolibs, and its weird I am defending them, but they are people in a stressful situation.
6. And it can be far easier for a neolib to snap and do this kind of act.
7. My study show I am correct as always.

Regards,
SirJamesofTexas

[Elrathin]

3. If I was the one who snapped under near death reality, I would feel cheated to have to go to jail.


You just keep digging yourself into a deeper hole with each comment.

Now you're saying it is ok what these people did because they were under near death reality. The fact now you're trying to say these guys are neolibs is even sicker.

First you support the rapists, then you bring up abortion to detract from you saying it, then you said you are defending these guys that raped and killed a littler girl and killed her whole family while covering it up.

Really Chess, you need help. What you have said is just truly sick.

[lily]

1. This isn't back peddling, its forward peddling.
2. I said all along what they did was wrong.

Yet you keep making excuses for them.

3. I also have been saying that in a war zone, some men snap.
4. When men think they will die, they say to themselves,' Ahh what the hell might as well get laid".

I've not read anywhere that said these men snapped. In fact one of them stalked the girl. That's not snapping, that's waiting for the chance. It involves thinking, planning and waiting for the right time.

5. For sure these guys were neolibs, and its weird I am defending them, but they are people in a stressful situation.
6. And it can be far easier for a neolib to snap and do this kind of act.

This can't be right, by your own definition of the word you made up, a neolib would never serve in the military.

[CheesyMuslim]

SOrry bout that,

1. But there are plenty of neolibs in the military.
2. And they shouldn't be.
3. They have a lower breaking point.
4. And I wouldn't want to have to count on one.

Regards,
SirJamesofTexas

[Buck Laser]

SOrry bout that,

1. But there are plenty of neolibs in the military.
2. And they shouldn't be.
3. They have a lower breaking point.
4. And I wouldn't want to have to count on one.

Regards,
SirJamesofTexas

Were you ever in the military, cheese?

[Elrathin]

Were you ever in the military, cheese?


I doubt it, but I'm sure he saw a war movie and thinks he is an expert.

[CheesyMuslim]

Sorry bout that,




Sorry bout that,

1. But there are plenty of neolibs in the military.
2. And they shouldn't be.
3. They have a lower breaking point.
4. And I wouldn't want to have to count on one.

Regards,
SirJamesofTexas

Were you ever in the military, cheese?



1. Whether I was Military isn't on topic Buck Wheat.
2. But I know I am correct here.
3. What if this family had 6 son's who were terrorist suicide bombers who had already worn the vest?
4. What if their father did as well?
5. And now that I am doing a series of *What Ifs*, perhaps Gawd had allowed this to take place for payment of so much evil coming from this one family.

Regards,
SirJamesofTexas

[Elrathin]

5. And now that I am doing a series of *What Ifs*, perhaps Gawd had allowed this to take place for payment of so much evil coming from this one family.


You can play all the what ifs you want, but that doesn't change the fact these soldiers STALKED the young girl to her home, RAPED AND KILLED HER, and then killed her family and NONE of the family there were terrorists.

They had to plant evidence on them (WHICH THE SOLDIERS ADMITTED TO) to cover it all up.

Your continued defense of rape is appalling and sickening.

[CheesyMuslim]

Sorry bout that,

1. But no body knows all the details Elrathin.
2. Don't kid yourself.
3. Find out this families full name.
4. See if you can research them, and see just how many children they had.
5. Find out where the husband is.
6. How they died.
7. Then get back to me.

Regards,
SirJamesofTexas

[Elrathin]

1. But no body knows all the details Elrathin.


They know the details of the soldier stalked the girl (He admitted to this), he helped rape and kill the girl (He admitted this), and then he helped kill her family (He admitted to this). HE PLEAD GUILTY CHESS!

There is no doubt Chess, HE ADMITTED DOING IT!

I don't care if her father was Osama Bin Laden, it doesn't excuse RAPING AND KILLING A GIRL.

And yet you defend the rape, that is what makes you sick. But please by all means support raping and killing a girl all you want, it still makes you sick.

[Stoner]

Hey, El, have you ever served in our armed forces? Any armed forces?

[Elrathin]

Hey, El, have you ever served in our armed forces? Any armed forces?


Yes, I am retired Army.

[Stoner]

Hey, El, have you ever served in our armed forces? Any armed forces?


Yes, I am retired Army.


When are you going to start acting like it?

[Elrathin]

When are you going to start acting like it?


Wow, is that all you have to say? And here I thought you had something important to say.

[lily]

Hey, El, have you ever served in our armed forces? Any armed forces?


Yes, I am retired Army.


When are you going to start acting like it?


Have you served?

[lily]

I want to know where the hell you get off, telling someone that served his country, to start acting like you prefer him to act. Do you think he is less American, because he doesn't follow this idjit in the White House? He put in his time......and then some. What about you?

You're saying these things, because he questions Chess nonchalant replies sticking up for a child rapist and murderer? What a load of crap.

[Stoner]

Have you served?


10 years USMC.

[Stoner]

Do you think he is less American, because he doesn't follow this idjit in the White House?

Negative. There are many other reasons why he is "less-american".

I can tell you exactly how many seconds El would have lasted in the Corps before a group of people beat the shit out of him if he ran his pie-hole about how bad America sucked and how much he hated his CIC and country.

[Elrathin]

I want to know where the hell you get off, telling someone that served his country, to start acting like you prefer him to act. Do you think he is less American, because he doesn't follow this idjit in the White House? He put in his time......and then some. What about you?

You're saying these things, because he questions Chess nonchalant replies sticking up for a child rapist and murderer? What a load of crap.


Thank you LIly, but I am not really surprised by Stoner's comment. See he made it right after I explained to Chess that the soldier ADMITTED to stalking, raping, and killing the girl and then killing her family.

So I can therefore come to the conclusion that Stoner is also supportive of rapists as long as the rapist wears a U.S. military uniform or he wouldn't have inserted his comment in there in such a manner.

Either that or he was really stoned and just acted like a complete moron. Either of those choices are viable at this point and time.

[Elrathin]

Do you think he is less American, because he doesn't follow this idjit in the White House?

Negative. There are many other reasons why he is "less-american".

I can tell you exactly how many seconds El would have lasted in the Corps before a group of people beat the shit out of him if he ran his pie-hole about how bad America sucked and how much he hated his CIC and country.


Stoner, while in the military I never mentioned my disdain for the CIC, nor did I have any disdain for my country. I did my job and I did it well until I retired.

Just because someone disagrees with the way the president is handling things does not make them anti-american.

The fact you cannot understand that only proves that Dope kills the brain. You don't have much longer to go.

[lily]

Negative. There are many other reasons why he is "less-american".

Negative??? You're joking right? All of a sudden you use the word negative instead of no.:rolleyes:

I can tell you exactly how many seconds El would have lasted in the Corps before a group of people beat the shit out of him if he ran his pie-hole about how bad America sucked and how much he hated his CIC and country.

I do believe that you are allowed to speak any way you want, once you are out of the service. I also believe that El didn't serve under this asshole in the White House.

So........anyway........what would those in the Corps do to someone that raped a child and killed her entire family........because after all that is what the discussion is about.

[Elrathin]

I also believe that El didn't serve under this asshole in the White House.

Actually I did Lily, and I bit my tongue many times, but never once in uniform or out did I speak badly about the president while I was in the service.

I did my job and did it to the best of my ability. In retrospect, we were so busy that we didn't have a lot of time to even think about politics.

The mission is what we had and the mission is what we had to complete.

[lily]

Always willing to admit when I was wrong.

[Buck Laser]

So what we seem to have here is two sterling characters--Cheesy and Stoner--neither of whom have ever served in any military service--spouting off about how some things are just "understandable" or "forgiveable" because things are so tough in "real" war. And they don't know diddly shit about it, but they want to find a way to put the blame back on people who've been there. I really can't find words to express my reactions. All I can figure is that both are stoned beyond redemption. Neither contributes anything of value to the Forum.

[Alonzo]

Hey, El, have you ever served in our armed forces? Any armed forces?


Yes, I am retired Army.


When are you going to start acting like it?


If the way to act like a soldier was to sit down and shutup whenever a fellow soldiers rapes, tortures or kills innocents, then I wouldn't give a damn what happens to them. Anyone who wants to be a soldier and behave that way can go to hell.

Read about some real heroes that I'm sure you think should have been jailed, or worse:

http://www.law.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/mylai/Myl_hero.html

[lily]

Winning the hearts and minds, one child at a time.

[CheesyMuslim]

Sorry bout that,

1. But lets look at the people of Iraq for a second.
2. A father of a young girl rapes her, then says shes been raped by some one else.
3. They get a rit, so to say, and get her stoned to death.
4. Oh what a feeling huh folks?
5. Same can go for a wife.
6. Sons can be done the same way.
7. Life is cheaper than hell in all arab countries.
8. I say these men were wrong, but there is far greater evils in arab lands, that way over power this sinful thing done.

Regards,
SirJamesofTexas

[Red Dragon]

So we should ignore what some of our own do and let them get away with their crimes?

[Elrathin]

Sorry bout that,

1. But lets look at the people of Iraq for a second.
2. A father of a young girl rapes her, then says shes been raped by some one else.
3. They get a rit, so to say, and get her stoned to death.
4. Oh what a feeling huh folks?
5. Same can go for a wife.
6. Sons can be done the same way.
7. Life is cheaper than hell in all arab countries.
8. I say these men were wrong, but there is far greater evils in arab lands, that way over power this sinful thing done.

Regards,
SirJamesofTexas


Well at least you're finally admitting what they did as wrong.

As to the rest of your post, regardless of how the country is, that doesn't excuse our soldiers doing something like that, PERIOD.

The soldier admitted he was in the wrong, and now he is being punished. Albeit not as I bad as I want him to, but he is being punished.

I have a feeling Chess, that is someone raped your wife, you wouldn't want them to receive no punishment by the law for what they had done.

So why should it be excused just because the men that did the raping wore a military uniform?

[CheesyMuslim]

Sorry bout that,

1. But did any body research this family?
2. Find out who they are, or were.
3. I have said all along that what they did, if they in fact did it, I wasn't there, was wrong.
4. Murder is worse than rape.
5. All the details of this case may never know the light of day.
6. Myself knowing the reality over there, it wouldn't surprise me one bit, if this was a terrorist family.

Regards,
SirJamesofTexas

[Elrathin]

6. Myself knowing the reality over there, it wouldn't surprise me one bit, if this was a terrorist family.


Let's just say for the sake of argument it was a terrorist family. Does that give the soldiers the right to rape and kill the girl?

[CheesyMuslim]

Sorry bout that,

1. Nope, not the right, but it would smooth over the sinful thing that they did.
2. Also it would perhaps be a cause to a reason, biblically.
3. Happened many times like that in the Bible.
4. Person or persons, escaped mans justice, but then met Gawds.

Regards,
SirJamesofTexas

[Elrathin]

1. Nope, not the right, but it would smooth over the sinful thing that they did.


Chess you make no sense whatsoever. Are you now trying to say that if someone sins it is ok for someone else to commit a sin against that person?

Face facts Chess, everyone in the CIVILIZED world agrees that the soldiers that raped and killed this girl, along with killing her family was wrong.

You are convinced that this family was terrorists, but that doesn't change the fact of what these soldiers did, nor does it excuse it. The soldiers admitted their guilt, and the evidence found that this family had done not done anything wrong on record.

Anything else is playing what ifs, but the one what if you can't play with is these soldiers, like scumbags, stalked, raped, and killed this girl, then killed her family. No amount of "what ifs" is going to change that FACT.

[BoogyMan]

Sorry bout that,

1. Nope, not the right, but it would smooth over the sinful thing that they did.
2. Also it would perhaps be a cause to a reason, biblically.
3. Happened many times like that in the Bible.
4. Person or persons, escaped mans justice, but then met Gawds.

Regards,
SirJamesofTexas


Chess, you cannot be arguing that God ever gave a man excuse to rape someone? It just isn't a supportable point my friend.

[CheesyMuslim]

Sorry bout that,

1. But sure I can.
2. There is a story in the Bible that relates to this issue..
3. Some one had just raped one of the patriarchs daughters and then asked to marry her.
4. And as it were one of her brothers tricked this man and his clan to all have circumcisions.
5. Before this man could take his sister to wife.
6. As it were the whole family got circumcised, and then the brothers killed them all with the sword.
7. Gawd wasn't happy about it, after the killings.

Regards,
SirJamesofTexas

[Buck Laser]

Give it up, Cheesy! You screwed the pooch by trying to excuse the misdeeds of those soldiers. A REAL mensch can admit a mistake and go on. Are you a mensch?

[BoogyMan]

Sorry bout that,

1. But sure I can.
2. There is a story in the Bible that relates to this issue..
3. Some one had just raped one of the patriarchs daughters and then asked to marry her.
4. And as it were one of her brothers tricked this man and his clan to all have circumcisions.
5. Before this man could take his sister to wife.
6. As it were the whole family got circumcised, and then the brothers killed them all with the sword.
7. Gawd wasn't happy about it, after the killings.

Regards,
SirJamesofTexas


Sorry Chess, but the Genesis chapter 34 depiction of the rape of Dina by Shechem, son of Hamor the Hivite doesn't support your scenario. As a matter of fact in that account the one who raped her and all of the men of the city were slain for the treachery of Shechem.

[CheesyMuslim]

Sorry bout that,

1. But the way I see it, this act of killing, from the sons of Jacob, caused huge turmoil for Jacob.
2. Simon and Levi mucked up Jacobs name, by killing these folks.
3. The way Jacob put it, they made Jacob, "to stink among the inhabitants of the land".
4. So Gawd gave him a new name, and his wife died giving birth to Benjamin.
5. They had to move, Rebekah's nurse died.
6. Then Issac who is Israels father, who was Jacob, had to die.
7. So I'd say Gawd wasn't happy at all.

Regards,
SirJamesofTexas

[underdawg]

This story reminds me of the movie "Casualties Of War". A group of soldiers stalk and kidnap a Vietnamese girl. Out of peer pressure they try to make the other soldiers rape this girl also. Michael J Fox's character refuses to follow orders to rape the girl and is shunned and harrassed because he refuses to go along with them. Everyone who enters the service is taught what is right and wrong on the battlefield. Rape and murder of innocent civilians and trying to cover it up is certainly not condoned by the military.

Sometimes people will do evil things that they normally would not do by themselves. It is a pack mentality. It is easy to go along with the crowd than to question the motives. This is cowardly. It is true bravery to go against your friends when you know that they are doing wrong.

Chess I think it is shamefull thing to blame the victim of a horrible crime. You even made the suggestion that the girl and her family could be terrorists. Sometimes I wonder if certain people know the difference between good and evil on there own, without having to take their cues from from the Bible or the pack mentality that they surround themselves with.

[Saigio]

Wow. Chess is defending rape and murder. Would he have the same view if the person was a civillian? It seems it is okay to commit crimes if you are a soldier, but if you are a civillian you are automatically evil and condemned to hell.

Way to be fair.

[Professor]

Chess, how would you feel if someone followed your wife somewhere then raped her and killed her? What would be an appropriate punishment then?

Now let's say the man was a schizophrenic. Does it change things because he was very ill?

What is the value of a life? It's diminished when someone rapes and kills a family, because that proves they think those actions were acceptable. The only way to inflate the value is to pursue justice. Settling the wring doing by paying someone a couple hundred US dollars only further diminishes the value of life. What was the family worth then? A playstation? Five people for a playstation?

If you still disagree with the punishment, think of this. The US is hated around the world. If we were to settle the crime with a few hundred dollars, then it would further tarnish our reputation. Who would want to be around such a country?

[Elrathin]

Wow. Chess is defending rape and murder. Would he have the same view if the person was a civillian? It seems it is okay to commit crimes if you are a soldier, but if you are a civillian you are automatically evil and condemned to hell.

Way to be fair.


No, Chess doesn't mean it like that. Chess only condones rape and murder but only if it is against a Muslim. If a soldier did this to a Christian, he would be up in arms about how the person who committed the crime should die.

What we have is a very anti-Muslim person. He has also been quoted as saying he wouldn't mind nuking Muslim countries just because they are Muslims.

[CheesyMuslim]

Sorry bout that,

1. I am not defending them, but arguing the possibility that these American Military men were used like the hand of Gawd, in taking down a possible terrorist family.
2. Just who were they, I keep asking.
3. Iraq is hip deep in terrorists.
4. You can't sling a dead cat across a broad street without hitting a terrorist.
5. So I could be right, and I admit I could be wrong.
6. But I am not convinced the whole story has come out yet.

Regards,
SirJamesofTexas

[underdawg]

So are you saying that the hand of God used these men to rape a young girl, kill the family and then try to cover it up? If this is true , the "gawd" you pray to is truely evil.

[Elrathin]

1. I am not defending them, but arguing the possibility that these American Military men were used like the hand of Gawd, in taking down a possible terrorist family.


I just love it when Chess gets trapped by his own words, like these:

5. For sure these guys were neolibs, and its weird I am defending them, but they are people in a stressful situation.

http://www.democracyforums.com/showthread.php?tid=3610&page=4

Sorry Chess, when you make up your mind let us know ok?

You have backpedaled throughout this whole thread. One minute your defending the rape, then you're not, then you are. Please make up your mind ok?

[CheesyMuslim]

Sorry bout that,

1. But after so many folks here using the word * Defending* I used it, now sue me!
2. I am not actually defending them, more so because they are more likely neolibs.
3. I'm saying that the whole story isn't out there.
4. And may never totally be revealed.
5. It goes far deeper than you or I shall ever know.
6. I don't give up on the USA military as quickly as some folks here.
7. If these men were the hand of Gawd, and brought this destruction on this family, what am I to argue that?
8. It has happened before.
9. Does anyone here wish to argue that, with Gawd?

Regards,
SirJamesofTexas

[Elrathin]

9. Does anyone here wish to argue that, with Gawd?


There is no evidence to support you outlandish claim Chess. What there is evidence of is that this soldier stalked, raped, and killed a GIRL and then killed her family.

If someone killed your wife and then said God told him to do it, would you believe it? I doubt it, so therefore quit using this idiotic excuse.

[Elrathin]

6. I don't give up on the USA military as quickly as some folks here.


It's not giving up on the U.S. military to punish a soldier for raping and killing a girl and her family. These soldiers did what they did without approval by the U.S. military.

But yet again, here we have you defending the actions of rape and murder again. Face it Chess, you lost this one BIG TIME LOL.

[Professor]

Chess, how would you feel if someone followed your wife somewhere then raped her and killed her? What would be an appropriate punishment then?

Now let's say the man was a schizophrenic. Does it change things because he was very ill?


I'd like to know the answer Chess.

I don't doubt that the soldiers in Iraq are under an incredable amount of stress and pressure. It still doesn't justify the actions. At Nuremburg at 1945, no one pleaded stressed out.

[lily]

7. If these men were the hand of Gawd, and brought this destruction on this family, what am I to argue that?
8. It has happened before.
9. Does anyone here wish to argue that, with Gawd?

Regards,
SirJamesofTexas



Ok, I'll argue with Gawd, since you seem to think he talks to you, let me ask you......they were doing God's work, since you seem to think the entire family were terrorists. Why would God want someone to rape a child, then kill her entire family so no one could identify them? Why did they cover up the crime? Why, when someone's consience...........or maybe this is where God come is and tell this person "Hey you did evil and you are covering up for the man that did this evil", didn't this man use this in his defense?

[CheesyMuslim]

Sorry bout that,

1. But I can't explain it any better, I don't think.
2. Gawd works in mysterious ways.
3. And I can't expect a bunch of Heatherns to understand.
4. I might expect Boogyman, and some others here to understand, but not all that many have the means to understand, what could of happened.
5. It could of been way different than anyone here can imagine.
6. Anyway, I think I've beaten this dead horse in half.

Regards,
SirJamesofTexas

[Elrathin]

6. Anyway, I think I've beaten this dead horse in half.



No, you've just been beaten is all :D

[Labrocca]

You guys are funny...this is a 9 page thread of everyone trying to argue with a guy that posts in points. CWN wins this one for sure just out of response from the crowd. He has got you all riled up while he is just goading you all on.

I don't see him sticking up for rape only the punishment of the soldier is he really questioning.

[Elrathin]

You guys are funny...this is a 9 page thread of everyone trying to argue with a guy that posts in points. CWN wins this one for sure just out of response from the crowd. He has got you all riled up while he is just goading you all on.

I don't see him sticking up for rape only the punishment of the soldier is he really questioning.


Right because he makes no good points, sounds like a KKK operative, and sticks up for raping an Arab woman just because her family is Muslim, he wins. Gotcha Lobraocaa LOL.

I know it's hard for you to read sometimes but yes, he did stick up for the rape because he said it would be justified if it were a terrorist family.

Boy I'm glad your not taking scores on any real games, you would give points to the losing team just because they are getting beaten so badly. :D

[Red Dragon]

Ah the ominous Prophet Chess had delivered his daily sermon I see. Chess if your god condones the rape of girls and the killing of their families I'm starting to wonder whether these are its words or yours.

[Labrocca]

Boy I'm glad your not taking scores on any real games, you would give points to the losing team just because they are getting beaten so badly. :D


I don't keep scores at games where the winning team is obviously inferior and the loser is just letting them win. :)

lol

1/2 the stuff CWN says is just to goad you guys into responses and you fall for it every time...he really has a great sense of humor if you ask me and none of you are getting it. I am sure he is sitting behind his desk thinking of what awful thing he can say to turn you guys into a moshpit of tirading lefties...He is on stage all the time. imho he is the Andy Koffman of the right.

http://andykaufman.jvlnet.com/zmutom.jpg

[Elrathin]

he really has a great sense of humor if you ask me and none of you are getting it.


It's more telling about you and Chess if you think joking about rape is having a sense of humor. Maybe when you have a loved one or someone you care about raped, you will think differently.

It's sad you and Chess think rape is a game or something to be joked about.

[CheesyMuslim]

Sorry bout that,

1. But I aint joking, I could be right on this, just as much as I could be wrong.
2. I see it as a 50/50 chance here.
3. What are the odds eh?
4. That that family was marked for destruction.
5. Just took some extra doing before they had to die, perhaps.

Regards,
SirJamesofTexas