An explosion of disbelief - fresh doubts over 9/11

[BoogyMan]

Wow, the insanity of the 9/11 "truther" has gone mainstream in Britain.


Sources: Link (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/worldnews.html?in_article_id=435265&in_page_id=1811) and Link (http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/article-23385010-details/An+explosion+of+disbelief+-+fresh+doubts+over+911/article.do)

The official story of what happened on 9/11 never fails to shock. Four American airliners are hijacked by Osama Bin Laden's terrorists in an attack on the heart of the Western world on September 11, 2001.

Two are deliberately flown into New York's famous Twin Towers, which collapse. A third rams into the United States defence headquarters at the Pentagon, in Washington D.C.

The last goes down in rural Pennsylvania, 150 miles north of the capital, after a tussle between the hijackers and some of the passengers onboard, whose bravery was recently portrayed in a Hollywood film, United 93.

Nearly 3,000 ordinary, decent Americans die in the attacks, provoking the U.S. President George W. Bush to mount a global war on terror, which leads to the invasion of Iraq, with Britain in tow.

Or that's how the official story goes.

Yet today, more than five years on, this accepted version of what happened on 9/11 is being challenged by a 90-minute internet movie made for £1,500 on a cheap laptop by three young American men. The film is so popular that up to 100 million viewers have watched what is being dubbed the first internet blockbuster.

The movie was shown on television to 50 million people in 12 countries on the fifth anniversary of 9/11 last autumn. More than 100,000 DVDs have been sold and another 50,000 have been given away. In Britain, 491,000 people have clicked on to Google Video to watch it on their computers.

Called Loose Change, the film is a blitz of statistics, photographs pinched from the web, eyewitness accounts and expert testimony, all set to hip-hop music. And it is dramatically changing the way people think about 9/11.

A recent poll by the respected New York Times revealed that three out of four Americans now suspect the U.S. government of not telling the truth about 9/11. This proportion has shot up from a year ago, when half the population said they did not believe the official story of an Al Qaeda attack.

The video claims the Bush administration was, at the very least, criminally negligent in allowing the terrorist attacks to take place. It also makes the startling claim that the U.S. government might have been directly responsible for 9/11 and is now orchestrating a cover-up.

Unsurprisingly, the film's allegations have been denied, even roundly condemned, by White House sources and U.S. intelligence services.

Only this week, the letters page of the Guardian newspaper was full of discourse about Loose Change, which was made by a trio of twentysomethings, including a failed film school student and a disillusioned ex-soldier.

Indeed, the movie's assertions are being explored by a number of commentators in America and Britain - including the former Labour Cabinet Minister Michael Meacher - who are questioning the official account of 9/11.

Mr Meacher, who last year proposed holding a screening of Loose Change at the House of Commons (he later changed his mind), has said of 9/11: "Never in modern history has an event of such cataclysmic significance been shrouded in such mystery. Some of the key facts remain unexplained on any plausible basis."

These words were written in a foreword for Professor David Ray Griffin's bestselling book, The New Pearl Harbour (a pointed reference to the conspiracy theory that President Roosevelt allowed the Japanese to assault the U.S. fleet in 1941, in order to force America into World War II).

Griffin, now nearing retirement, is emeritus professor at the Claremont School of Theology in California and a respected philosopher. While Loose Change is capturing the interest of internet devotees, Professor Griffin's equally contentious theories are receiving standing ovations in book clubs across the U.S.

Together, the book and the movie have raised the question: could the attack be a carbon copy of Operation Northwoods, an aborted plan by President Kennedy to stage terror attacks in America and blame them on Communist Cuba as a pretext for a U.S. invasion to overthrow Fidel Castro?

In other words, on a fateful September morning in 2001, did America fabricate an outrage against civilians to fool the world and provide a pretext for war on Al Qaeda and Iraq?

This, and other deeply disturbing questions, are now being furiously debated on both sides of the Atlantic.

Why were no military aircraft scrambled in time to head off the attacks? Was the collapse of the Twin Towers caused by a careful use of explosives? How could a rookie pilot - as one of the terrorists was - fly a Boeing 757 aircraft so precisely into the Pentagon? And who made millions of dollars by accurately betting that shares in United and American Airlines, owners of the four doomed aircraft, were going to fall on 9/11 as they duly did?

An extremely high volume of bets on the price of shares dropping were placed on these two airline companies, and only these two. In the three days prior to the catastrophe, trade in their shares went up 1,200 per cent.

Initially, like most people in America, Professor Griffin dismissed claims the attacks could have been an inside job.

It was only a year later, when he was writing a special chapter on American imperialism and 9/11 for his latest academic tome, that the professor was sent a 'timeline' on the day's events based entirely on newspaper and television accounts. It was then that he changed his mind.

And one of the most puzzling anomalies that he studied was that none of the hijacked planes was intercepted by fighter jets, even though there was plenty of time to do so and it would have been standard emergency procedure in response to a suspected terrorist attack.

Indeed, it is mandatory procedure in the U.S. if there is any suspicion of an air hijack. In the nine months before 9/11, the procedure had been implemented 67 times in America.

Readers of The New Pearl Harbour and viewers of Loose Change are reminded that it was 7.59am when American Airlines Flight 11 left Boston. Fifteen minutes later, at 8.14am, radio contact between the pilot and air traffic control stopped suddenly, providing the first indication that the plane might have been hijacked.

Flight 11 should have been immediately intercepted by fighter pilots sent up from the nearby McGuire Air Force Base in New Jersey. They could have made the journey to the World Trade Centre in three minutes.

But, surprisingly, F-15 fighter jets were instead ordered out of an airbase 180 miles away at Cape Cod. They appear to have flown so slowly - at 700mph, instead of their top speed of 1,850mph - that they did not arrive in time to stop the second attack, on the South Tower of the World Trade Centre. They were 11 minutes too late.

And this is not the only worrying question. Incredibly, the attack on the Pentagon was not prevented either. The defence headquarters was hit by the hijacked American Airlines Flight 77 at 9.38am. But fighter jets from Andrews Air Force Base, just ten miles from Washington, weren't scrambled to intercept it.

Instead, jets were ordered from Langley Air Force Base in Virginia, 100 miles away. By the time they arrived, Flight 77 had already hit the Pentagon.

So what of the fall of the Twin Towers?

The official version is that the buildings collapsed because their steel columns were melted by the heat from the fuel fires of the two crashed planes.

It is a mantra that has been repeated in White House briefings, official inquiries into 9/11, leaks by the American intelligence services and almost every TV documentary on the attack in the U.S. and Britain.

But, according to the allegations of Loose Change (which are endorsed by Professor Griffin), the science does not stand up. Steel does not begin to melt until it reaches around 2,800 degrees Fahrenheit, but open fires of jet fuel - such as those in the Twin Towers inferno - cannot rise above 1,700 degrees.

Professor Griffin and the makers of Loose Change are convinced the Twin Towers were deliberately blown up.

The film shows clip after clip of the towers coming down in one fell swoop to loud and distinct booms. Were they the sound of detonators being set off?

And the Pentagon attack? The hotly disputed theory of the film and Professor Griffin is that a passenger plane never hit the building at all.

The terrorist pilot, Hani Hanjour, was so slow to learn the fundamentals at flight school that his tutors reported him to the authorities for his incompetence five times.

How could he have guided the huge aircraft in such a complex manoeuvre into the building? And if he did, what happened to the aircraft?

The Loose Change narrator says: "The official explanation is that the intense heat from the jet fuel vapourised the entire plane. Indeed, from the pictures, it seems there was no discernible trace of a fully loaded Boeing 757 at the crash scene.

"But if the fire was hot enough to incinerate a jumbo jet, then how could investigators identify 184 out of 189 dead people found at the defence headquarters?"

Intriguingly, the narrator adds: "The only visible damage to the outer wall of the Pentagon is a single hole no more than 16ft in diameter. But a Boeing 757 is 155ft long, 44ft high, has a 124ft wingspan and weighs almost 100 tons.

"Are we supposed to believe that it disappeared into this hole without leaving any wreckage on the outside? Why is there no damage from the wings or the vertical stabiliser or the engines which would have slammed into the building?

"Remember how big the engines were," the film adds persuasively.

"If six tons of steel and titanium banged into the Pentagon at 530mph, they would bury themselves inside the building, leaving two very distinct imprints. And yet the only damage to the outer wall is this single hole."

And what of the Boeing's 40ft high tail? "Did it obligingly duck before entering the building?" asks Professor Griffin.

So if a commercial aircraft did not hit the building, what did? The wildest of all the theories in Professor Griffin's writings - echoed in Loose Change - is that the Pentagon was attacked by a military missile of some kind. Certainly, several onlookers quoted in the film claim that they saw a tiny aircraft piercing the defence HQ.

Another witness says it made a shrill noise, quite unlike a giant passenger plane.

So if it wasn't hijacked and flown by a terrorist into the Pentagon, what happened to Flight 77, last heard of on its way to Ohio?

No one knows. But one thing is sure, asserts Professor Griffin. Dick Cheney, the U.S. vice- President, and Condoleezza Rice, at the time President Bush's national security adviser, were in the White House bunker as the drama unfolded.

They, and their advisers, knew a hijacked aircraft was heading towards Washington. The obvious target was the White House, not the Pentagon. Yet Cheney and Rice were never evacuated from the White House. Did someone in high places already know that they were safe and that it was the Pentagon that was going to be the target?

Of course, no account of 9/11 by the conspiracy lobby is complete without a minute-by-minute observation of President Bush's behaviour.

He was hundreds of miles away in Florida, about to read a book to primary school children when the worst terrorist attack of the modern age happened.

The President reportedly showed little reaction when an aide told him that the first plane had crashed into the Twin Towers. Why not?

He, apparently, told the school's principal: "A commercial plane has hit the World Trade Centre, but we're going ahead with the reading thing anyway."

Then President Bush, who is also the commander-in-chief of the American military, settled down to recite My Pet Goat to a group of seven-year-olds.

He was interrupted a few minutes later by a whispered message in his ear from an aide that a second aircraft had hit the Twin Towers.

The President's face, captured by photographers at the school, remained completely passive. He showed no sign of emotion.

Now it must have been obvious a terrorist maelstrom was being unleashed on his country. But three days later, back in the American capital, he was a different man. By now he was certain that Osama Bin Laden and his Al Qaeda henchmen were to blame.

Surrounded by the Christian evangelist preacher Billy Graham, a cardinal, a rabbi and an imam, the President delivered a sermon in America's national cathedral in Washington.

The words he uttered are recounted by both Professor Griffin and the makers of Loose Change.

President Bush announced: "Our responsibility to history is already clear: to answer these attacks waged against us by stealth, deceit and murder and rid the world of evil."

The scene had been swiftly set for the West's war on terror.

[Stoner]

Whoever believes in this 9/11 conspiracy dribble has absolutely no brains in their skull and should be beaten over the head 88,902 times with a pickaxe.

[Churchel]

Whoever believes in this 9/11 conspiracy dribble has absolutely no brains in their skull and should be beaten over the head 88,902 times with a pickaxe.


You can start with me, but I suggest packing a lunch.

I believe it shows a psychological flaw with persons who believe in their government to the point they would refer to violence (yes I know the 88,902 pickaxe thing is made as a point towards your frustration and not in literal sense) when something that typical logic and reason describe differently than what they get as an answer from someone they trust.

I believe there is much more in this story than what has been told, if the facts of this documentary are refutable I suggest someone in the government do so. There seems to be no mystery to me, or any sort of "national security" that would be compromised by releasing the evidence that a 757 flew into the pentagon. Big fucking plane hitting big fucking building on tape is not that hard to imagine. From my standpoint there is no inclination that any terrorist in the world would learn any new technique on how to fly a plane into a building.

As I have gotten older I have learned to assume less and ask more questions. I suggest not looking at the government as an act of faith and remember aside from all the statues and memorials dedicated to heroes past that it is still made up from people. Watching the news on any given night reminds me of what the human mind is capable of reasoning into fruition.

[underdawg]

I think there are a lot of unanswered questions concerning 9-11. The day of 9-11 was handled in such a way that leads me to suspect that either the administration was totally incompetant, or that they somehow knew something was going to happen and chose to not react. It is not a difficult thing to see that the administration has not been forthright with the American public, but trying to find a motive always leads to speculation. Now that the Democrats are in power, I would finally like to see an investigation done to see if any wrong doing was done on the part of the administration.

[BoogyMan]

I think there are a lot of unanswered questions concerning 9-11. The day of 9-11 was handled in such a way that leads me to suspect that either the administration was totally incompetant, or that they somehow knew something was going to happen and chose to not react. It is not a difficult thing to see that the administration has not been forthright with the American public, but trying to find a motive always leads to speculation. Now that the Democrats are in power, I would finally like to see an investigation done to see if any wrong doing was done on the part of the administration.


I would agree that there are things that we will never know about 9/11 but to say that they knew someone would fly planes into those buildings and did nothing about it is reprehensible and disgusting.

[underdawg]

I don't think so. I think this president would take advantage of any available situation. I know you think so highly of this president, but I think his administration is crooked enough to do almost anything.

[Buck Laser]

I don't think so. I think this president would take advantage of any available situation. I know you think so highly of this president, but I think his administration is crooked enough to do almost anything.


After 9/11, I suspended my distrust of the Bush administration pretty completely because I thought we faced a national crisis. By six weeks into the crisis period, it began to become evident to me that the administration was trying to subvert it to its own ends. The attack on the Taliban made good sense, because it was the home of Al Qaeda. But Bush's wrath to go after Saddam made no sense to me in 2001, and it makes even less sense now.

I don't think the administration was actually complicit in any serious way in the 9/11 attacks, but it's hard to escape a conclusion that they used it as an excuse to go after a country and its leader who had no role in 9/11. I don't know if that's treason, but it's dishonest as hell.

[Stoner]

I think his administration is crooked enough to do almost anything.


Well I do know Bush hasn't lied under oath to a federal grand jury perjuring himself. See, that we can prove. The problem with libs' ignorant accusations against Bush is they can't prove any of them. They're all baseless. At least with Clinton we knew all of his lies and incompetence.

[abaddon]

I count 3 central core columms cut at the base in this photo tell me what u see ????
http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j178/peterholmes7/9-11_thermite1.jpg


this video alone proves 100% bush lied and was in on it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y-dcIPR-D4Y

he claims to see the first plane hit on tv but the naudet footage was not seen by anyone till 24 hours after the attack.

fireman says "theres a bomb in the building , start clearing out"
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4574366633014832928

police report bombs and a possible van bomb in the towers
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dvc9C96EyyE

listen to one of the bombs
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5182535448932065917

911 eyewitness listen to 9 bombs going off
part 1
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4563604978641682920

part 2
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=65460757734339444

part 3
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1499087335913993078

Auxiliary Lieutenant Fireman and former Auxiliary Police Officer, Paul Isaac Jr.Paul, along with many other firemen, is very upset about the obvious cover-up and he is on a crusade for answers and justice. He was stationed at Engine 10, across the street from the World Trade centre in 1998 and 99; Engine 10 was entirely wiped out in the destruction of the towers. He explained to me that, “many other firemen know there were bombs in the buildings, but they’re afraid for their jobs to admit it because the ‘higher-ups’ forbid discussion of this fact.” Paul further elaborated that former CIA director Robert Woolsey, as the Fire Department’s Anti-terrorism Consultant, is sending a gag order down the ranks. “There were definitely bombs in those buildings,” he told me. He explained to me that, if the building had ‘pancaked’ as it’s been called, the falling floors would have met great resistance from the steel support columns, which would have sent debris flying outward into the surrounding blocks. I asked him about the trusses, and quoted the history channel’s ‘don’t trust a truss’ explanation for the collapses. He responded in disbelief, and told me, “You could never build a truss building that high. A slight wind would knock it over! Those buildings were supported by reinforced steel. Building don’t just implode like that; this was a demolition.”

Just after the disaster, Firefighter Louie Cacchioli said, “We think there were bombs set in the building.” Notice he said ‘we’. At 9:04, just after flight 175 collided with the South Tower, a huge explosion shot 550 feet into the air from the U.S. Customs House known as WTC 6. A huge crater scars the ground where this building once stood. Something blew up WTC 6 - it wasn’t a plane; it must have been a bomb of some sort.

full story http://www.prisonplanet.com/analysis_lavello_050503_bombs.html


911 justice A carefully supported criminal indictment of George Bush, Dick Cheney, Richard Myers, and Condoleeza Rice for murder in the events of 9-11, presenting all the best evidence in a concise but powerful manner. It includes Larry Silverstein's admission that explosives were used to bring down the buildings in New York; and Norman Mineta's identification of Dick Cheney as the person who gave the order not to scramble jets, or fire any weapons in defense of the Pentagon.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8079325414286598240


still a few unanswered questions yet !!!!

[abaddon]

Former NYPD Officer and 9/11 First Responder Craig Bartmer worked on the rescue operation at Ground Zero.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2283625397351664218

William Rodriguez Interview About Numerous Explosions in the basement
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C1DbvyhZtnY

[Elrathin]

Well I do know Bush hasn't lied under oath to a federal grand jury perjuring himself.


That's because the fucking coward won't talk UNDER OATH.

[abaddon]

open complicity , This is a 9/11 doc for the advanced class.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=347655064407137426

911 justice A carefully supported criminal indictment of George Bush, Dick Cheney, Richard Myers, and Condoleeza Rice for murder in the events of 9-11.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8079325414286598240

[Stoner]

I count 3 central core columms cut at the base in this photo tell me what u see ????


I see columns cut so during cleanup they would fall a cetain direction for safety purposes.Â*Â*Here's some pics showing them making the cuts.

http://www.debunking911.com/cut.jpg

http://www.debunking911.com/cut2.jpg

http://www.debunking911.com/cut3.jpg

Oops.Â*Â*Guess they didn't tell you that at moveon.org.Â*Â*I understand most of the kooks that believe these conspiracy theories believe thermite was used to make the cuts.Â*Â*Your problem there is thermite does not burn a hole nice and straight like the way the column is cut.Â*Â*Thermite burns in a random, chaotic-like manner.Â*Â*

I am also aware that in your little pic most moveon.org kool-aid drinkers think that yellow residue is from thermite.Â*Â*Well check out the pic I posted and what color smoke do you see that worker using?

Here's a video of thermite in action.Â*Â*http://www.guzer.com/videos/thermite_car.php

Next time do some research before you spew hate towards America and not be so quick to believe Kos and moveon.org blindly.

still a few unanswered questions yet !!!!


Not really.Â*Â*Science, engineering and common sense has answered almost every question.Â*Â*Wether one chooses to believe logic and not partisan ramblings and kooky conspiracy theories from the whacko left is another issue altogether.

[Mayberry]

Geez. Who in their right mind would actually believe that the government would let this happen knowingly, much less do it themselves? Rosie O'Donnel being the spokesman for this tells me just how off- the- rocker it really is. Does anyone actually think someone could do this and get away with it? No one is that stupid. And what would you stand to gain? Nothing.

[abaddon]

Stoner nice of you to post a photo showing the thermite residue and then claim it's not thermite you need to check your eyes maybe u need glasses.

The residue has been tested and the results are in guess what they found ...... Thermate

http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/april2007/240407Evidence.htm

Professor Steven Jones presenting his X-ray spectrometry evidence from samples taken at the WTC site. They dramatically show a PERFECT MATCH for the highly specialized compound "thermate" (used for cutting through steel) found in the WTC debris. (And no, thermate was NOT used during the clean up operation...this stuff was in the building, and ignited, prior to collapse.) If you're new to this information, you might want to check out "Molten Metal" and "Fire Initiated Collapse - Primary Arguments Against"

[abaddon]

as you don't seem to have much of a grasp on 911 truth here is a few good places to start .

http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/911-beginners.php

http://www.apfn.org/apfn/WTC_questions.htm

http://stj911.org/

[Stoner]

Ok, I thought I made things clear but let me simplify this so people of all levels of education can understand.

- Thermite was not used to make those cuts.Â*Â*It is physically impossible for thermite to make those cuts.Â*Â*Thermite burns very chaotically.Â*Â*The last thing thermite does is cut in a perfectly straight line.Â*Â*

- You can plainly see the worker making those cuts after the attacks.Â*Â*It doesn't get any more clearer than that.Â*Â*In fact in the one pic you can see the cuts perfectly.Â*Â*Here, I'll post it again since you ignored missed it the first time.

http://www.debunking911.com/cut.jpg

http://www.debunking911.com/cut2.jpg

Anything else?Â*Â*Because, quite frankly, the next step is to take a trip to the grocery store and buy a bunch of aluminum foil for your hat if you can't see the pics with the cut being made clear as day after the attacks.

I also notice you ignored missed the part where the worker was using yellowish smoke...the same color your mystical thermite leaves behind.

Since you come off like an explosives expert would you mind if I ask you a few intermediate to advanced explosive questions? I guarantee you won't be able to google these. This will tell us if you know what you're talking about or just reciting moveon.org/Kos/Huffington crap. Mind if I quiz you?

[jafar00]

With respect Stoner, the Thermate residue discovered, is not some conspiracy theory. It's a scientifically proven fact. Despite the fact that what is shown may be recovery cuts.

[Stoner]

Ah, I see you're quoting Mr. Jones.Â*Â*That would be Steven Jones.Â*Â*Steven Jones as in the 9/11 conspiracy theorist.Â*Â*Let's look at the accolades of Steven Jones.

- Specialty is cold fusion.Â*Â*That's right...cold fusion.

- Brigham Young University relieved him of his teaching duties because of his ridiculous hypothesis he came up with which is the same one you and all of the other 9/11 conspiracy theorists use and quote.

- Was a speaker for the 9/11 Neocon Agenda Symposium (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/9/11_%2B_The_Neo-Con_Agenda_Symposium).Â*Â*No shit.Â*Â*I'm not making this up.

- Scientists and professors have said many times that Jones' findings were flimsy at best and being doubted by almost everyone in the scientific community.Â*Â*They also say that his findings have not been put through the proper scientific tests.Â*Â*


- Jones lied about his hypothesis being perr-reviewed.Â*Â*He claimed this many times but to this day it has never been published in an independent peer-reviewed journal.Â*Â*Pretty interesting, huh?Â*Â*Wonder why that is?

- Is a founding member of the Scholars for 9/11 Truth which is a whacko, left-wing conspiracy theorist orginization.Â*Â*Now there's someone with a good, clear unbias opinion.

Now there's an impressive resume for you.Â*Â*

Now, back to that fact thing you keep avoiding...

Go to this (http://www.debunking911.com/thermite.htm) page and scroll to the very bottom.Â*Â*There you will see a video of workers cleaning up.Â*Â*The one worker is talking about what everyone is doing and at about 1:12 into it listen to what he has to say and what it shows.Â*Â*I'll put it in text in case you decide to ignore skip the video.

"You can see where they made the cuts along - [Dave points to columns with angled cuts]Â*Â*right above - that's the bow tie connection they're cutting at about 3 to 5 foot above the bow tie connection before it starts in to the forming of the candle stick. They've got three candles left to cut."

So now that we've debunked the loony conspiracy theory about thermite being used to make those presice cuts I suppose the only thing left to do before we send abaddon on his way is explain the thermite residue at the WTC site.

Since Jones seems to be such a "reliable" source we'll quote someone he loves to quote himself.Â*Â*

In Steven Jones' PDF "Answers to Objections and Questions",Â*Â*to support his claim for Sol-gels/Thermite he states:

"One molecule, described by the EPA's Erik Swartz, was present at levels "that dwarfed all others": 1,3-diphenylpropane. "We've never observed it in any sampling we've ever done,"

However when you look at the link he uses...

http://www.newsday.com/news/health/ny-hsair0911,0,471193.story?coll=ny-homepage-right-area

You find out Mr. Jones edits out the VERY next line which states

"He said it was most likely produced by the plastic of tens of thousands of burning computers."

Huh.Â*Â*Interesting.Â*Â*Was most likely produced by the plastic of tens of thousands of burning computers.Â*Â*Wow.Â*Â*The same person he quotes and uses as evidence to his lunatic claims is the same person who has now debunked his entire hypothesis.

Buh bye, abaddon.Â*Â*See ya!

And oh, by the way, next time you want to step up and play ball with the big boys make sure you bring something better than Stevie Jones. I mean seriously. The guy is a nutjob and a complete emberassment to the scientific community. He is now a black sheep and a laughing stock amongst scientists. May want to keep that in mind next time you feel the urge to quote him.

[abaddon]

Stoner your the blacksheep get used to it

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bsp3DPTmiN0&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Eprisonplanet%2Ecom%2Fartic les%2Fapril2007%2F240407Evidence%2Ehtm

[Stoner]

Stoner your the blacksheep get used to it



Uh huh. Thanks for playing. Better luck next time.

[abaddon]

what does steven jones have to do with XRAY spectrometry results you gave your long speech but the FACT still remains the sample from wtc steel had thermate residue.

[Mayberry]

A thermite reaction is a type of aluminothermic reaction in which aluminium metal is oxidized by the oxide of another metal, most commonly iron oxide. The name thermite is also used to refer to a mixture of two such chemicals. The products are aluminium oxide, free elemental iron, and a large amount of heat. The reactants are commonly powdered and mixed with a binder to keep the material solid and prevent separation. The reaction is used for thermite welding, often used to join rails.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermite Well, let's see here. Aluminum airplane, steel beams, hmmmm..... Iron oxide is rust, by the way, and we know steel forms rust, now don't we? There are all kinds of chemical reactions that occur during a fire. The Myth Busters just had an interesting thermite experiment in regards to the Hindenburg disaster, in which they dis-proved the theory of the dirigible's coating having caused a thermite reaction, starting the fire. There was, however, a thermite reaction during the fire in their test. Keep tryin' kooks.

[Elrathin]

Well there you have it folks, the conspiracy theory has been busted because Mayberry watched Mythbusters LOL.

[Mayberry]

Well there you have it folks, the conspiracy theory has been busted because Mayberry watched Mythbusters LOL. Do you dispute the validity of anything I said?

[abaddon]

Mayberry did u even read my post you are referring to thermite when it clearly in my post says thermate.

[Mayberry]

Mayberry did u even read my post you are referring to thermite when it clearly in my post says thermate. Yes. Thermate, or Thermate-TH3, is an incendiary compound primarily used for military applications. Because of the similarity in names, thermate is sometimes confused with one of its components, thermite.

Thermate is a mixture of thermite and pyrotechnic additives which have been found to be superior to standard thermite for incendiary purposes. Its composition by weight is generally thermite 68.7%, barium nitrate 29.0%, sulphur 2.0% and binder 0.3%. Addition of barium nitrate to thermite increases its thermal effect, creates flame in burning and significantly reduces the ignition temperature.

Thermate is used in incendiary hand grenades. Apparently you don't have a grasp on what thermate is.

[abaddon]

I do know what it is but you were referring to rust and aluminium from the planes as your thermite source . Where do you get your barium nitrate from ????

[Mayberry]

Who knows? There's all kinda stuff in a building.

[abaddon]

This is a 9/11 doc for the advanced class. It starts off with the defeat of the official story as point of departure, then examines specific anomalies and advances a theory to explain their presence.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=347655064407137426

Theres all kinda stuff in this documentary as well.

[Labrocca]

The day of 9-11 was handled in such a way that leads me to suspect that either the administration was totally incompetant, or...


Well you can't have it both ways. This administration is under intense scrutiny. No way they concocted this scheme and it wasn't leaked by this point. Every lefty and even centers now call this president incompetent. You can't in one breathe say how incompetent he is and in the next say he pulled off the greatest conspiracy in history. Do you honestly believe Bush to be a mastermind? Please...I know NONE of you believe this. Even those that like Bush understand he ain't the brightest guy. If you want to look at anyone suspicious try your genious buddy Gore...yeah the guy who was actually IN the whitehouse just 18 months previously...he could have conconcted the whole thing to make Bush look bad and because he was bitter he lost the election.

For crying out loud..I was there..that shit happened.

[Pookie]

I don't think it was a government plot and I also do not believe Bush or Cheney would be bright enough to pull something like off. I do think they were asleep on the job and might have ignored some clues. I believe it's just incompetency and I do hope this will be investigated.
Purrs,

[abaddon]

Bush was sworn in to defend America and you say he was asleep on 911 , isn't that enough too sack him ??? What are you waiting for ????

[jafar00]

Bush was sworn in to defend America and you say he was asleep on 911 , isn't that enough too sack him ??? What are you waiting for ????


He wasn't asleep. We all saw him doing important things on the day like reading "My Pet Goat" to distract everyone while the Bin Ladens and anyone else who may be connected like the infamous dancing Israelis were flown out of the country.

[PatrickHenry]

Whoever believes in this 9/11 conspiracy dribble has absolutely no brains in their skull and should be beaten over the head 88,902 times with a pickaxe.
If you think you can, bring it on! My armament is larger caliber and I can assure you of my functional brain for accuracy of aim!

I will point out the effen evidence and you can whine to the least popular President since Tricky...:P Why isn't Dubya popular? Because he LIES!

Here's a video I like, no dialog, just captions and a cool soundtrack: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6702050570069604257&hl=en

[suedanim]

I gotcha back Pat. Excellent video btw...

Too few people either know or are willing to talk about just WHO the PNAC is and what influence they have had on US foreign and domestic policy.

Have you seen 9/11 Mysteries (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1921357139285191482&q=9%2F11+Mysteries&total=517&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=1)? Thoughts?

[PatrickHenry]

I like the calm, rational tone and the relentless nature of the relevant questions.

[Mayberry]

rational Yeah, that's what I'd call it. :rolleyes:

[preservanation]

I don't think it was a government plot and I also do not believe Bush or Cheney would be bright enough to pull something like off. I do think they were asleep on the job and might have ignored some clues. I believe it's just incompetency and I do hope this will be investigated.
Purrs,

But Bush and Cheney were smart enough to hoodwink the Dems into voting for the use of force in Iraq. How stupid does that make them?

[PatrickHenry]

I'd say Cheney/Bush are pretty smart where it counts. Their futures are pretty well set. (For this life at least!) But, heh, on Judgement Day...

I bet you didn't even watch it, Mayberry. But I found it good enough to download it today...

[Mayberry]

[/quote]I bet you didn't even watch it, Mayberry You bet right. I've got better things to do than watch idiotic conspiracy theory videos.

[PatrickHenry]

Yeah, like work your butt off to pay for the September 11 Victims Compensation Fund, heh.

[DANG]

Heres another contradiction. The 911 Commission Report lied about the time frame. Cheney was in the PEOC (Presidential Emergency Operations Center) bunker for AT LEAST a half hour longer than they reported. Item #2... If Cheney hadnt ordered a shoot down, he must have ordered a stand down.
This article has a Youtube video of Dept of Transportation Sec. Norman Mineta Link (http://www.roguegovernment.com/news.php?id=2747)

Mineta Confirms Cheney Ordered Stand Down
06-26-2007
Jones Report
Aaron Dykes



Former Transportation Secretary Norman Mineta answered questions from members of 9/11 Truth Seattle.org about his testimony before the 9/11 Commission report.

Mineta says Vice President Cheney was "absolutely" already there when he arrived at approximately 9:25 a.m. in the PEOC (Presidential Emergency Operations Center) bunker on the morning of 9/11. Mineta seemed shocked to learn that the 9/11 Commission Report claimed Cheney had not arrived there until 9:58-- after the Pentagon had been hit, a report that Mineta definitively contradicted.

Norman Mineta revealed that Lynn Cheney was also in the PEOC bunker already at the time of his arrival, along with a number of other staff.



Mineta is on video testifying before the 9/11 Commission, though it was omitted in their final report. He told Lee Hamilton:

“During the time that the airplane was coming into the Pentagon, there was a young man who would come in and say to the Vice President…the plane is 50 miles out…the plane is 30 miles out….and when it got down to the plane is 10 miles out, the young man also said to the vice president “do the orders still stand?� And the Vice President turned and whipped his neck around and said “Of course the orders still stand, have you heard anything to the contrary!?

Mineta confirmed his statements with reporters, saying "When I overheard something about 'the orders still stand' and so, what I thought of was that they had already made the decision to shoot something down."

Mineta was still in the PEOG bunker when the plane was reported down in Shanksville, Pennsylvania.

"I remember later on when I heard about the Shanksville plane going down, the Vice President was right across from me, and I said, 'Do you think that we shot it down ourselves?' He said, 'I don't know.' He said, 'Let's find out.' So he had someone check with the Pentagon. That was about maybe, let's say 10:30 or so, and we never heard back from the DoD until probably about 12:30. And they said, 'No, we didn't do it.'"




Norman Mineta's Testimony Before the 9/11 Commission-- which was NOT included in the final report and which DISPUTES the Commission's timetable for Vice President Dick Cheney on 9/11

The two hour time delay is suspicious given the Vice President's own account of the dedicated video communications available that morning, as he told it to Tim Russert of Meet the Press on September 16, 2001.

"We had access, secured communications with Air Force One, with the secretary of Defense over in the Pentagon. We had also the secure videoconference that ties together the White House, CIA, State, Justice, Defense--a very useful and valuable facility. We have the counterterrorism task force up on that net. And so I was in a position to be able to see all the stuff coming in, receive reports and then make decisions in terms of acting with it."

At a bare minimum, this confirmation by Norman Mineta is in gross contradiction to the 9/11 Commission Report and poses serious questions about the Vice President's role in ordering NORAD to stand down on 9/11.The 911 Report is full of contradictions..... this is a glaring one, imho.
Mineta testafied, why was it not reported correctly?

Smell a cover-up?

I do

[Labrocca]

Cheney was in the PEOC (Presidential Emergency Operations Center) bunker for AT LEAST a half hour longer than they reported.

So is your assumption that Cheney was hiding in a bunker from an attack he was part of the planning? How does that make any sense? That's like planning to murder your wife, hiring a killer, then being present at the murder. What's the point? If he knew this was going to happen why not just go about a regular scheduled day?

Again..holes in the conspiracy. Always someone pointing at a cover up simply because they don't know a fact or a fact is incorrect now and again.

What makes you think Norman Mineta is credible? Did you even WATCH the video? The guy seems rather unsure in that video about time frames. Mineta also seems unconcerned about his testimony not being included. Basically the interviewer is spouting lots of crap as all these "9/11 liars" do.

[DANG]

Cheney was in the PEOC (Presidential Emergency Operations Center) bunker for AT LEAST a half hour longer than they reported.

So is your assumption that Cheney was hiding in a bunker from an attack he was part of the planning? Negative. My point is that the multimillion dollar Commission got another "fact" wrong by at least 1/2 hour. They barely even included Minetas testimony in the report.... He was a major player, being in Dept of Transp.
But his testimony included an uncomfortable witness of Dick Cheneys utterance "Of course the order stands" when he was told the plane was 10 miles out (very close for a speeding jet). And then Cheney would not testify under oath....I am I the only one who wants to know what the order was??
Since no planes were shot down and NORAD had not reported even engaging radio contact with ANY of the planes.... Was the order to shoot down the only remaining plane in the air? Or to continue to stand down as they had for nearly 2 hours already. Remember... Cheney said, "Did you hear any CHANGE in orders?"

But, if Cheney didnt arrive at the bunker until AFTER the Pentagon was hit.... then he was talking about Flight 93. One half hour means a lot. The whole damn timeline matters one helluva lot. But the whole day is treated as moot by the Ommission Commission on several accounts.
For instance if the VP had a direct line to the DoD as stated: "I remember later on when I heard about the Shanksville plane going down, the Vice President was right across from me, and I said, 'Do you think that we shot it down ourselves?' He said, 'I don't know.' He said, 'Let's find out.' So he had someone check with the Pentagon. That was about maybe, let's say 10:30 or so, and we never heard back from the DoD until probably about 12:30. And they said, 'No, we didn't do it.'"

The two hour time delay is suspicious given the Vice President's own account of the dedicated video communications available that morning, as he told it to Tim Russert of Meet the Press on September 16, 2001 .

"We had access, secured communications with Air Force One, with the secretary of Defense over in the Pentagon. We had also the secure videoconference that ties together the White House, CIA, State, Justice, Defense--a very useful and valuable facility. We have the counterterrorism task force up on that net. And so I was in a position to be able to see all the stuff coming in, receive reports and then make decisions in terms of acting with it."

At a bare minimum, this confirmation by Norman Mineta is in gross contradiction to the 9/11 Commission Report and poses serious questions about the Vice President's role in ordering NORAD to stand down on 9/11.They sure had to think about it for a long time. 2 Hours!? This is the head of terrorism. Eary in bushs first year he turned all things related to terrorism to Cheney. Besides, he was the one who would have given the order to begin with. He was running the war games that morning. Cheney ordered NORAD to stand down. He didnt have to ask DoD. He was calling the shots.


Again..holes in the conspiracy. Always someone pointing at a cover up simply because they don't know a fact or a fact is incorrect now and again.Yeah, kinda like a sponge. But this sponge dont hold water.What makes you think Norman Mineta is credible? Did you even WATCH the video? The guy seems rather unsure in that video about time frames. Mineta also seems unconcerned about his testimony not being included. Basically the interviewer is spouting lots of crap as all these "9/11 liars" do.
Yes I watched the first video. Some time has passed... should he be angry about being left out? He didnt seem unsure to me... he seemed to have trouble finding an end to a sentence so he could respond.... Dont you love interviwers who never shut up?

A lot of testimony didnt get included, not just his... A lot of major players. The main testimony we all needed to hear was from the FDNY, but their testimony was sealed until 2005.

This is his testimony to the Commission (http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/july2005/270705testimonycensored.htm), it was left out of the book.

The real smoking gun; however, was in Florida that day.

This is from WRH (http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/9-11secretservice.html)The fictional Sherlock Holmes solved the crime in "Silver Blaze" by deducing it was the owner of the house who was the criminal. How did he know? Because the dog did not bark. The only person who could have committed the crime without arousing the dog was someone the dog knew as a friend, the dog's owner.

Inspector Gregory: "Is there any other point to which you would wish to draw my attention?"

Holmes: "To the curious incident of the dog in the night-time."

"The dog did nothing in the night time"

"That was the curious incident," remarked Sherlock Holmes.

From "The Adventure of Silver Blaze" by Arthur Conan Doyle


Now let us turn our Sherlockian logic on 9-11.

Hijacked aircraft were wandering across the eastern half of the country. In theory no-one could have known how many planes had been hijacked. Two planes had crashed into the World Trade Center, Bush was at a publicised photo opportunity at Booker Elementary School, and there is an airport only four miles from this School.

Florida Straits:
Bush Presses Education Agenda in Sunshine State

W A S H I N G T O N, Sept. 10 � President Bush headed to Florida today to push for quick passage of his education reforms as the flagging economy commands increasing attention back in the nation's capital. [ABC News (http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/story?id=121331&page=1)]

Federal News 9/11 schedule - click for full size



The Sarasota Herald Tribune announced Bush's visit to Booker Elementary on September 8th, giving the 9-11 planners three days to include Bush as a target for a diving jetliner. Nobody could have safely assumed he was not a target.

1913: Congress authorized permanent [Secret Service] protection of the President and the statutory authorization for President-elect protection. [secretsevice.gov (http://www.secretservice.gov/history.shtml)]

The Booker Elementary video shows the Secret Service did not rush in to remove the President to a secure location, or at least to the safety of the armored Presidential Limousine. That's their job. That's what they do in the case of a real surprise attack with many unknowns. They don't do anything else.

But the Secret Service did nothing. The dog did not bark.



Bush defenders try to explain Bush's inaction as his not wanting to upset the children. Michael Moore's "Fahrenheit 9-11" suggests Bush's inaction was due to his not being told to leave. But Michael Moore fails to follow that line of reasoning through to its logical conclusion; where were the people whose job it is to get the President to a place of safety in event of attack, the people who would have, SHOULD have, pulled Bush out of there, children and public appearances be damned!

The Secret Service did nothing. The dog did not bark.

If the events of 9-11 were truly a surprise to the United States Government then there is no way the Secret Service could have known there wasn't a hijacked or stolen plane heading towards Booker Elementary School that very second.

Three Secret Service agents, a SWAT member, the Marine and Balkwill turned on the television in a nearby front office as United Airlines Flight 175 out of Boston crashed into the south tower.
"We're out of here," the Marine told Balkwill. "Can you get everyone ready?" [Sarasota Herald Tribune (http://billstclair.com/911timeline/2002/sarasotaheraldtribune091002.html)]

The Secret Service did nothing. The dog did not bark.

The Secret Service should be in that video, but they are not. It is clear from their inaction that they KNEW FOR A FACT THAT THE PRESIDENT WAS NOT A TARGET OF ONE OF THE HIJACKED PLANES. The intended targets of the planes had to have been known.

The dog did not bark because the criminal was its master.

Quod Erat Demonstradum, the Bush administration was part of the 9-11 plot.(More documentation and videos at the link)

His itenerary was published in the Sarasota Herald on Sept 8th???. I guess terrorists dont read newspapers,AND THE SECRET SERVICE RELIED ON THAT FACT. Its their job to swoop in and rush the president to safety. in fact.... THATS their ONLY job.

But they knew ---- somehow; that he wasnt in danger that day. Good thing for those kids he was hiding behind, eh??

[BoogyMan]

After reading this DANG, I have to ask, what really happened at Roswell NM?

[DANG]

BoogyMan;
Thats off topic, but for the record:

I never really looked into it much. It seems like a waste of time until we have a landing or crash in a metropolitan area. There is obviously a cover-up.

I dont doubt, there very well COULD be intelligent life on other planets.

If we can build space ships why should we be so arrogant to think nobody else could have this technology?

Did you hear about the British Airliner pilot who spotted 2 UFO's approximately 1 mile wide? It was just last week.

On topic:
Is it so irrational to believe, corrupt politicians could stage a false flag attack, in order to get a war they want?
Its not a unique situation.

Besides, We have all those trillions of dollars invested in the Industrial-military complex.... it has to justify its own existence.

Check this out, Cheney Fans:
From the Wilderness (http://www.fromthewilderness.com/free/ww3/011805_simplify_case.shtml)

Crossing the Rubicon
Simplifying the case against Dick Cheney

by
Michael Kane

January 18, 2005 (FTW) - In an argument of over 600 pages and 1,000 footnotes, Crossing the Rubicon makes the case for official complicity within the U.S. government and names Dick Cheney as the prime suspect in the crimes of 9/11. Since the publication of this book (to which I had the privilege of contributing a chapter), many people have asked to hear the case against Cheney argued "short & sweet."

I will make it as short as possible, but it can never be sweet.

There are 3 major points made within this book that are crucial to proving Cheney's guilt. I shall first list them and then go on to prove each point as laid out in Crossing the Rubicon.
Means - Dick Cheney and the Secret Service: Dick Cheney was running a completely separate chain of Command & Control via the Secret Service, assuring the paralysis of Air Force response on 9/11. The Secret Service has the technology to see the same radar screens the FAA sees in real time. They also have the legal authority and technological capability to take supreme command in cases of national emergency. Dick Cheney was the acting Commander in Chief on 9/11. (Click here (http://www.fromthewilderness.com/free/ww3/011805_simplify_case.shtml#bullmeans) for a summary of these points)


Motive - Peak Oil: At some point between 2000 and 2007, world oil production reaches its peak; from that point on, every barrel of oil is going to be harder to find, more expensive to recover, and more valuable to those who recover and control it. Dick Cheney was well aware of the coming Peak Oil crisis at least as early as 1999, and 9/11 provided the pretext for the series of energy wars that Cheney stated, "will not end in our lifetime." (Click here (http://www.fromthewilderness.com/free/ww3/011805_simplify_case.shtml#bullmotive) for a summary of these points)


Opportunity - 9/11 War Games: The Air Force was running multiple war games on the morning of 9/11 simulating hijackings over the continental United States that included (at least) one "live-fly" exercise as well as simulations that placed "false blips" on FAA radar screens. These war games eerily mirrored the real events of 9/11 to the point of the Air Force running drills involving hijacked aircraft as the 9/11 plot actually unfolded. The war games & terror drills played a critical role in ensuring no Air Force fighter jocks - who had trained their entire lives for this moment - would be able to prevent the attacks from succeeding. These exercises were under Dick Cheney's management. (Click here (http://www.fromthewilderness.com/free/ww3/011805_simplify_case.shtml#bullopp) for a summary of these points)
Here is the supporting documentation as laid out in Crossing the Rubicon, making a legal case against Dick Cheney for the crimes of 9/11.

• MEANS: Dick Cheney and the Secret Service
As the 9/11 plot unfolded, it has been reported that Secret Service whisked Dick Cheney into an underground presidential bunker at 9:03. 1 This establishes that the Secret Service was in the loop giving orders by at least 9:03, and almost certainly much earlier, as we will show.

Former counter-terrorism advisor Richard Clarke writes in Against All Enemies: "Secret Service had a system that allowed them to see what FAA's radar was seeing." The Kean Commission (also known as the 9/11 Commission) would have us believe that the chain of command on 9/11 was a complex web, but in reality the Secret Service had the authority to communicate presidential and vice presidential orders directly to fighter pilots in the air. 2

In Air War Over America, a book commissioned by the Air Force documenting the morning of 9/11, it is stated that the FAA contacted Otis Air Force base informing them Flight 11 was headed to Manhattan and had lost its identification signal by 8:30. 3 This indicates Secret Service was in the loop by the same time, or shortly thereafter, since they are able to see FAA radar screens in real time and FAA is reaching out to the military. There is no question that by 8:45 at the absolute latest, likely much earlier, Secret Service is in the decision-making loop. They were most likely in the loop after 8:15 when flight 11 turned its transponder off.

more... (http://www.fromthewilderness.com/free/ww3/011805_simplify_case.shtml) In league with the Secret Service, Dick Cheneys orders superceded all others that day. It is my contention that at the very least he allowed those planes to strike their targets.... more likely that he Made it Happen.

Cheney (in league with Secret Service) was soley responsible for National Security that day. So.....

What does he have to say about it?

Where is his statement?

His testimony was unsworn and behind closed doors. Sealed.

Hide much?

I would like to submit, that the you man who was keeping Cheney informed of the progress of the incoming Pentagon "missile"....and asking "Do the orders stand?" was referring to the War Games orders.
The war games were not called off, in spite of a priority that required S.O.P....
and not a damned game that would surely cause even more deaths than the 2 WTC hits that already happened. He wanted that Pentagon hit. Needed that hit. On so many levels.

That brings us to...
FLIGHT 93

According to Newsweek, the last plane was doomed to be shot down. Cheney and Bush agreed to it shoot down. NEWSWEEK (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5251871/site/newsweek/)

Cheney didn't flinch, the report said. "In about the time it takes a batter to decide to swing," he gave the order to shoot it down, telling others the president had "signed off on the concept" during a brief phone chat. When the plane was 60 miles out, Cheney was again informed and again he ordered: take it out.But by the time they shot it down... it was no longer a threat. The plane had been wrestled away from hijackers.....
It was heading WEST.
Away.
From.
D.C.
Check the debris field. The plane was first hit above New Baltimore.
Then it crashed (supposedly**{see vid below}) in Shanksville:
http://img519.imageshack.us/img519/989/debrisfieldflt93mr2.th.png (http://img519.imageshack.us/my.php?image=debrisfieldflt93mr2.png)Click to enlarge.
Westbound!

They couldnt have any living witnesses to what really happened, could they? (No Iraqi or Arab hijackers?.... )

The above map and others, plus more info...are available HERE (http://911research.wtc7.net/planes/attack/flight93site.html)

I have my doubts about that crash site though. The plane had apparently VAPORIZED on impact. Not even a scrap of DNA remained. NO LUGGAGE? Unlike any other crash site EVER! Another first!

Lets say, for the sake of argument, that that is the crash site

(Of course we are supposed to OVERLOOK another shiney trinket:
**United Airlines reports Flight 93 landed at an Ohio airport)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sueAQB3fjqo
Another Ohio landing Video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PoWCIFmlSgg

Another YouTube video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLJrpdozRTI&mode=related&search=): The Coroner was done in 20 minutes. There was not a single body at the flight 93 crash site. Not even a drop of blood.
Come on...you gotta admit its at least a bit odd. No?

A world record for world records that day.

[BoogyMan]

Its called sarcasm D, didn't think you would get it. :D

[DANG]

See the last link, in the last paragraph, in my last post, above?
I like this comment on that page:antiemowarrior (2 months ago)
I agree. Look at the space shuttle thingy that crash a while back. The fucker was going, what 12,000 MPH when it hit the ground? There were still pieces of it. The plane (UA 93) was going 500-600 MPH and there's nothing left of it.

Boogey,
You have to keep in mind, some facial gestures are not visible to me when you face down ...... The pixel cam in my avatar is not perfect. I will have to install one between the keys of your keyboard, as well. ;)

Edit to add:
Look closely at my right eye

[Labrocca]

Your doubts and ignorance over 9/11 do not add up to a conspiracy.

My point is that the multimillion dollar Commission got another "fact" wrong by at least 1/2 hour.

Yet college kids making youtube videos have the facts right? OMG...Yeah...you hang on to those beliefs of yours and see how well it does for you. I bet you wake up everyday feeling so comforted that THEY are out to get YOU! And only you a few select people really know the truth. It's like you're a spy or something...like a rebellious revolutionary out to take down the system. This isn't the DaVince Code...it's reality. Some radical islamic terrorists hijacked planes and used them to attack America. It's really THAT SIMPLE. For your theory to work that there is some cover-up or vast conspiracy would require so many people that it wouldn't be a conspiracy at all.

I guess you feel most of America is dumb sheep and you are the smart one for knowing what really happened on 9/11. This really gets old and boring listening to these arguments from the "9/11 liars". Every time you give them common sense they find one small point and claim that's proof of a coverup hence the entire 9/11 was a conspiracy. bah...laughable if it wasn't so sad

http://www.cirocco.nl/wp-content/uploads/2006/08/cuckoo-foto.jpg

[Mayberry]

I guess you feel most of America is dumb sheep and you are the smart one for knowing what really happened on 9/11. I couldn't have said it better myself Lab. A cover up of this magnitude is so far fetched it is ridiculous, especially in this age of instant information. There is no way possible to pull it off.

[jafar00]

But they knew ---- somehow; that he wasnt in danger that day. Good thing for those kids he was hiding behind, eh??


ergo, Bush was using school children as Human Shields (well, using CWN style logic anyway ;) ). Despicable.

[DANG]

I lost a lot of work when the Forum crashed a few minutes ago. I hope everything is ok? I managed to save some of my post, I will post what I have and respond to the rest later, when the system is more stable
Your doubts and ignorance over 9/11 do not add up to a conspiracy.

My point is that the multimillion dollar Commission got another "fact" wrong by at least 1/2 hour.

Yet college kids making youtube videos have the facts right? Did you find fault with any of the facts presented? ...or would you rather just assault the messenger? The 911 Commission had access to the same information, yet chose not to report it because it contraticted the official conspiracy. You did not mention any facts you wish to dispute in your post. I cannot defend the character of those who produced ONE of the 3 videos (the 1st clip in the trio (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sueAQB3fjqo) came from "Loose Change", I assume thats the one you are referring to) because I dont know them personally. It seems like you do.
However; In the 2nd clip (1 minute) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PoWCIFmlSgg) WCPO TV Channel 9 in Cincinnati, Reported a plane landed at Cleveland Hopkins Int'l Airport Flight 93, a Boeing 767 flying out of Boston. The reporter in that story is a middle aged man. That doesnt mean he isnt going to college, though. I am 49 and went to college the last 2 semesters (4.0, btw), does that mean I can't relate facts I have found? I would think college is not incriminating. So we have no physical evdence of a plane in Shanksville, but theres a report of that plane (Flight 93) landing at Cleveland Hopkins with a bomb on board... and you still choose to believe the lard asses on the "Blue Ribbon" Kean Commission. I can understand the ability to overlook an anomally or 2, but the 911 Commission is full of them.
http://img510.imageshack.us/img510/3691/ommissionsdistortionsmk6.th.jpg (http://img510.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ommissionsdistortionsmk6.jpg)

Book Review (http://www.interlinkbooks.com/Books_/911CommRep.html)

<snip>
The Commission’s account, by popular reckoning, has made an impression with its heft, its footnotes, its portrayal of the confusion of that sobering day, its detail, its narrative finesse. Yet under the magnifying glass of David Ray Griffin, eminent theologian and author of The New Pearl Harbor (a book that explores questions that reporters, eyewitnesses, and political observers have raised about the 9/11 attacks), the report appears much shabbier. In fact, there are holes in the places where detail ought to be thickest: Is it possible that Secretary of Defense Rumsfeld has given three different stories of what he was doing the morning of September 11, and that the Commission combines two of them and ignores eyewitness reports to the contrary? Is it possible that the man in charge of the military that day, Acting Head of the Joint Chiefs of Staff Myers, saw the first tower hit on TV, and then went into a meeting, where he remained unaware of what was happening for the next 40 minutes? Is it possible, as the Commission reports, that the FAA did not inform military that the fourth airplane appeared to have been hijacked�contrary to both common sense and the word of FAA employees? Is it possible that the Report, upon which are based recommendations for overhauling the nation’s intelligence, fails to mention even in a footnote the most serious allegations made public by Coleen Rowley, FBI whistleblower and Time person of the year?

David Ray Griffin’s critique of the Kean-Zelikow report makes clear that our nation’s highest leaders have told tales that wear extremely thin when held up to the light of other eyewitness reports, research, and the dictates of common sense�and that the Commission charged with the task of investigating all of the facts surrounding 9/11 has succeeded in obscuring, rather than unearthing, the truth.
Heres a lecture by the author, David Ray Griffin, on Google Video (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6837001821567284154).

Here are the first 15 (in a list of 115) found HERE (http://www.911truth.org/article.php?story=20050523112738404):
Given this clarification, I now list the omissions and claims of The 9/11 Commission Report that I, in my critique of that report, portrayed as lies:

1. The omission of evidence that at least six of the alleged hijackers---including Waleed al-Shehri, said by the Commission probably to have stabbed a flight attendant on Flight 11 before it crashed into the North Tower of the WTC---are still alive (19-20).

2. The omission of evidence about Mohamed Atta---such as his reported fondness for alcohol, pork, and lap dances---that is in tension with the Commission's claim that he had become fanatically religious (20-21).

3. The obfuscation of the evidence that Hani Hanjour was too poor a pilot to have flown an airliner into the Pentagon (21-22).

4. The omission of the fact that the publicly released flight manifests contain no Arab names (23).

5. The omission of the fact that fire has never, before or after 9/11, caused steel-frame buildings to collapse (25).

6. The omission of the fact that the fires in the Twin Towers were not very big, very hot, or very long-lasting compared with fires in several steel-frame buildings that did not collapse (25-26).

7. The omission of the fact that, given the hypothesis that the collapses were caused by fire, the South Tower, which was struck later than the North Tower and also had smaller fires, should not have collapsed first (26).

8. The omission of the fact that WTC 7 (which was not hit by an airplane and which had only small, localized fires) also collapsed---an occurrence that FEMA admitted it could not explain (26).

9. The omission of the fact that the collapse of the Twin Towers (like that of Building 7) exemplified at least 10 features suggestive of controlled demolition (26-27).

10. The claim that the core of each of the Twin Towers was "a hollow steel shaft"---a claim that denied the existence of the 47 massive steel columns that in reality constituted the core of each tower and that, given the "pancake theory" of the collapses, should have still been sticking up many hundreds of feet in the air (27-28).

11. The omission of Larry Silverstein's statement that he and the fire department commander decided to "pull" Building 7 (28).

12. The omission of the fact that the steel from the WTC buildings was quickly removed from the crime scene and shipped overseas before it could be analyzed for evidence of explosives (30).

13. The omission of the fact that because Building 7 had been evacuated before it collapsed, the official reason for the rapid removal of the steel---that some people might still be alive in the rubble under the steel---made no sense in this case (30).

14. The omission of Mayor Giuliani's statement that he had received word that the World Trade Center was going to collapse (30-31).

15. The omission of the fact that President Bush's brother Marvin and his cousin Wirt Walker III were both principals in the company in charge of security for the WTC (31-32).



OMG...Yeah...you hang on to those beliefs of yours and see how well it does for you. I bet you wake up everyday feeling so comforted that THEY are out to get YOU! Why should I be afraid...
I dont have any oil fields; like this:
http://img512.imageshack.us/img512/7808/iraqoilfieldseb6.jpg
(This is the same map Dick Cheney was passing around in the Energy Commission meetings, before 911.)
Hell, I dont even have a gas station.
I would be worried about them if I were Iran, though:
http://img411.imageshack.us/img411/1199/iranmajoroilfields78hx1.th.jpg (http://img411.imageshack.us/my.php?image=iranmajoroilfields78hx1.jpg)
This must be an old map. They dont show the oilfields that China and Russia are developing on the border with Iraq.

To be cont'd...

[Churchel]

Surfing youtube,

Fox Noise (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TSZG3a8F-YM&mode=related&search=)

I believe the facts reported as they develop.

[Mayberry]

Surfing youtube,

Fox Noise
OK, what was that supposed to prove? There was no plane crash I guess, right? Whatever. Even though the guy said there was no smoke, it was clearly visible in the video. There was also debris scattered around. Witnesses saw the plane go down.[/quote]

[DANG]

Part 2

And only you a few select people really know the truth.On the contrary, the majority believe there is, at the very least, a cover-up...if not an actual inside job.
A Zogby Poll showed over half of New Yorkers believed there was a cover up.
A CNN poll had 89% believed a 911 cover-up.
ABC had 85%
(Zogby is the most scientific of the 3)
I believe most people are apathetic about things they cannot control....so they just accept the popular opinion so they can fit into society. They dont have time to do all the research themselves. A lot of people dont even have computers... they have to rely on the mainstream media, which has sold us out.
It's like you're a spy or something...like a rebellious revolutionary out to take down the system.Just call me a truth seeker. This isn't the DaVince Code...it's reality. Some radical islamic terrorists hijacked planes and used them to attack America. You mean the same Islamist TERRORISTS!!!! who were insulted by these claims and lived to adamantly deny participation? Should we ask them if they just stepped out of the wreckage, mixed with the crowd... and walked down the stairwell to freedom? OK, but that isnt their claim. Do YOU have a witness to back it up? BTW, its 7 of the 19 perps who deny participation. Thats 1/3. Kinda makes you wonder if ANY of them were Islamists of the oooga boooga tribe. Dont it? Why only lie about 7 of them? I believe they are all falsely charged and convicted by the media.
Whats with your presitard invoking Saddam Hussein in the same breath as 911 on multitude of occasions? If it was Islamists? Saddam is as secular as you can get.

It's really THAT SIMPLE. Yup, its all very obvious to me. For your theory to work that there is some cover-up or vast conspiracy would require so many people that it wouldn't be a conspiracy at all. Upper management and profiteering operatives from Haliburton (I speculate Blackwater Mercenary involvment, as well). Follow the money. Defense contractors and greasy oil men had a lot to gain and the power/cashola to buy the right kind of goons.
As for upper managment:
A) Rotten Rudy had the crime scene shipped to China in a no-bid contract.
B) Air traffic controllers got together that day to record the events of that day on tape. They were comparing notes. Their supervisor confiscated those tapes...shredded them to pieces... then tossed them in several trash cans.
C) Many who were involved have been promoted...many others may have been re-assigned (disappeared) via extraorinary renditions...
Many have spoken out and you attack their character. The janitor in the WTC who witnessed the explosions first hand. What did you call him? Nutbag or something? There were over 150 FDNYs who witnessed demolition style explosions...whose testimony was SEALED until 2005. You have CLOSED DOOR testimony....WTF?
Then you have testimony that is worthless:
(From 911 Commission):
911 Commission (http://www.9-11commission.gov/report/911Report_Ch5.htm)

Detainee Interrogation Reports
Chapters 5 and 7 rely heavily on information obtained from captured al Qaeda members. A number of these "detainees" have firsthand knowledge of the 9/11 plot.

Assessing the truth of statements by these witnesses-sworn enemies of the United States-is challenging. Our access to them has been limited to the review of intelligence reports based on communications received from the locations where the actual interrogations take place. We submitted questions for use in the interrogations, but had no control over whether, when, or how questions of particular interest would be asked. Nor were we allowed to talk to the interrogators so that we could better judge the credibility of the detainees and clarify ambiguities in the reporting. We were told that our requests might disrupt the sensitive interrogation process. Are you going to believe any admissions of a tortured man??
Or would you rather FOLLOW the $$$$ Trail (http://crimesofthestate.blogspot.com/2007/05/pakistani-smoking-gun-of-911.html)


I guess you feel most of America is dumb sheep and you are the smart one for knowing what really happened on 9/11. Many are sheep
http://img516.imageshack.us/img516/4908/sheepletvbf3.jpg
But the MAJORITY of Americans dont trust the government. Most people do not believe the official THEORY. Most people want an independant 911 investigation. This really gets old and boring listening to these arguments from the "9/11 liars". Every time you give them common sense they find one small point and claim that's proof of a coverup hence the entire 9/11 was a conspiracy.Common sense?
When the police question somebody and their story keeps changing and there are inconsistencies, distortions and ommissions.... it can only mean one thing.

The only reason they have gotten away with it so far, is because all oversight was in the minority and had no subpoena power.... they were brushed aside as incosequential. Its not over yet. Nothing done in secret, will stay a secret.

Where was Donald Rumsfeld? He was "out of the loop", by his own admission, until the threat had passed. We were under attack for 2 hours!!
Why wasnt Rumsfeld sacked? He FAILED at defense the one and only day he needed to show up. He sure showed up for the AGRESSION against Iraq, (who never even threatened us). Secretary of Defense my ass!
Link (http://motherjones.com/news/update/2004/07/07_400.html)

Extracts from 'Who's in Charge Here?' by Gail Sheehy

When President Bush finally agreed to have a "conversation" with the 9-11 commissioners--provided it was not under oath, not recorded, and Cheney was at his side--the account the two top leaders gave was murky and unverifiable. On the crucial matter of whether fighters should be sent up to protect the nation's capital, for example, the final report says that "the Vice President stated that he called the President to discuss the rules of engagement for ordering [air cover]." But, it continues, the two did not order air cover because it would "do no good unless pilots had instructions on whether they were authorized to shoot if the plane would not divert." The job of issuing such instructions belonged to Secretary of Defense Rumsfeld.
Rumsfeld's public testimony before the commission last March was bizarre. When Gorelick asked the Secretary of Defense what he had done to protect the nation�or even the Pentagon�during the "summer of threat" preceding the attacks, Rumsfeld replied simply that "it was a law-enforcement issue." (So, observers were left to wonder, should the FBI be out with shoulder-launched missiles?)

"We still don't have a full accounting of Rumsfeld's whereabouts and knowledge on the morning of 9-11," Gorelick acknowledged after the commission's final public hearing. "We don't have answers to the questions that you're asking. But I'm going to make sure it's nailed down," she promised. Yet the final published report offers no further details on Rumsfeld's inactions or the reason he was "out of the loop" (as the secretary himself put it) that morning.

The National Military Command Center (NMCC) inside the Pentagon was the nerve center of the military's response to the attacks on 9-11. But the lead military officer that day, Brigadier General Montague Winfield, told the commission that the center had been leaderless."For 30 minutes we couldn't find [Secretary Rumsfeld]." Where was Rumsfeld on 9-11? I put the question to the commission's vice chair, Lee Hamilton, following the release of the report the commissioners call "the definitive account of 9-11."

"We investigated very carefully Mr. Rumsfeld's actions," said Hamilton. "He was having breakfast with Congressional leaders, and they hear a plane has hit the Pentagon, and he runs out."

"He had to have been told before the Pentagon was hit that two trade centers were hit and the country was under attack," I suggested.

Was the commission comfortable with the fact that the country's Secretary of Defense was not in the chain of command or present in the Pentagon's command center until all four suicide hijacked planes were down?

"I'm not going to answer that question," said Hamilton, and turned away.Rummy is Cheneys lap dog. Sense is rare, not common when it comes to 911. There is no shortage of common sense that day... it just isnt on the side of the globalists who got their New Pearl Harbor and proceeded to abuse the wave of patriotism to hijack our miltary and our Constitution for nefarious purposes.
bah...laughable if it wasn't so sadHeres an "avian" response to your peacock lady.
http://img512.imageshack.us/img512/4261/ostrichmw9.jpg

[DANG]

OK, what was that supposed to prove? There was no plane crash I guess, right? Have you ever seen a plane crash where there wasnt a huge carcass smoldering?
You didnt even have to guess what the hell is THAT? It was obvious.
Even though the guy said there was no smoke, it was clearly visible in the video.Obviously the guy got there 10 minutes later, after the smoke cleared... they just ran the audio over earlier video footage.
Audio and video dont have to be real time. There was also debris scattered around. Witnesses saw the plane go down. None of them saw the actual crash. They saw the plane disappear behind a hill...right? The area looked like a trash burn... just small litter. No seats or fuselage.... those HUGE sheets of aluminum vaporized???

Nothing to see here kids... move along now.

[Mayberry]

they just ran the audio over earlier video footage.
Audio and video dont have to be real time.
Right. So the video can be manipulated to support your claim. [/quote]None of them saw the actual crash. They saw the plane disappear behind a hill...right?[/quote] So where did it go? It couldn't land there. It would have been seen and or heard pulling back up. [/quote]Have you ever seen a plane crash where there wasnt a huge carcass smoldering?
[/quote] Yes. [/quote]The area looked like a trash burn... just small litter. No seats or fuselage.... those HUGE sheets of aluminum vaporized???
[/quote] The crash scene was behind the trees, as shown by the smoke in the video. [/quote]Nothing to see here kids... move along now.[/quote] You're right. Ever watch "Darma and Greg"? I'm going to start calling you Larry Finkelstein. :P[/quote]

[Stoner]

A CNN poll had 89% believed a 911 cover-up.


Ah, CNN. Now there's a reputable news network.

http://cagle.msnbc.com/working/070626/benson.gif

[DANG]

Stoner;
I gave a few sources. Trying to be fair.
~~~~~~~

Well, well, well; Looky here:

NIST is taking another look at WTC 7, including the possibility of controlled demolition:
NIST News Release (http://www.nist.gov/public_affairs/releases/wtc_062907.html)

NIST Status Update on World Trade Center 7 Investigation

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE:
June 29, 2007
CONTACT: Michael E. Newman
(301) 975-3025
michael.newman@nist.gov

A team of scientists and engineers at the Commerce Department's National Institute of Standards and Technology (NIST) that is investigating the collapse of New York City's World Trade Center 7 (WTC 7) building expects to release its draft report for public comment by the end of the year. WTC 7 was a 47-story office building adjacent to the WTC towers (WTC 1 and 2) that collapsed following the terrorist attacks of Sept. 11, 2001. WTC 7 collapsed later that afternoon.

<snip>
<snip>
<snip>
<snip>

This hypothesis may be supported or modified, or new hypotheses may be developed, through the course of the continuing investigation. NIST also is considering whether hypothetical blast events could have played a role in initiating the collapse. While NIST has found no evidence of a blast or controlled demolition event, NIST would like to determine the magnitude of hypothetical blast scenarios that could have led to the structural failure of one or more critical elements.Seeing how skewed their first report was, I am not getting my hopes up. Dont get me wrong. As long as they are looking at it... there is a chance the truth will come out.

Who can look at this:
http://img120.imageshack.us/img120/4426/wtc7smallgifyc4.gif
... and not see a controlled demolition??

More on this, including this tid bit; "Remarkably, the fire alarm system in WTC-7 was turned off at 6:47 AM/ET and placed on 'TEST' status for a period of eight hours."
HERE (http://www.opednews.com/articles/opedne_james_fe_070701_nist_exploring_9_2f11_.htm)

[DANG]

Mayberry,
If you want to repair your last post and repost it,
I would be glad to respond.

Its not my yob.

[PatrickHenry]

Here's another good video: http://investigate911.se/911_The_Ultimate_Con.html

[PatrickHenry]

Man who blew the whistle on Gladio tells Italy's largest newspaper attacks were run by CIA, Mossad
http://globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=7550
Former Italian President and the man who revealed the existence of Operation Gladio, Francesco Cossiga, has gone public on 9/11, telling Italy's most respected newspaper that the attacks were run by the CIA and Mossad and that this was common knowledge amongst global intelligence agencies.

Cossiga was elected President of Italian Senate in July 1983 before being winning a landslide 1985 election to become President of the country in 1985.

Cossiga gained respect from opposition parties as one of a rare breed - an honest politician - and led the country for seven years until April 1992.

Cossiga's tendency to be outspoken upset the Italian political establishment and he was forced to resign after revealing the existence of, and his part in setting up, Operation Gladio - a rogue intelligence network under NATO auspices that carried out bombings across Europe in the 60's, 70's and 80's.

Gladio's specialty was to carry out what they coined "false flag operations," terror attacks that were blamed on their domestic and geopolitical opposition.

Cossiga's revelations contributed to an Italian parliamentary investigation of Gladio in 2000, during which evidence was unearthed that the attacks were being overseen by the U.S. intelligence apparatus.

In March 2001, Gladio agent Vincenzo Vinciguerra stated, in sworn testimony, "You had to attack civilians, the people, women, children, innocent people, unknown people far removed from any political game. The reason was quite simple: to force ... the public to turn to the state to ask for greater security."

Cossiga's new revelations appeared last week in Italy's oldest and most widely read newspaper, Corriere della Sera. Below appears a rough translation.

"[Bin Laden supposedly confessed] to the Qaeda September [attack] to the two towers in New York [claiming to be] the author of the attack of the 11, while all the [intelligence services] of America and Europe ... now know well that the disastrous attack has been planned and realized from the CIA American and the Mossad with the aid of the Zionist world in order to put under accusation the Arabic Countries and in order to induce the western powers to take part ... in Iraq [and] Afghanistan."

Cossiga first expressed his doubts about 9/11 in 2001, and is quoted in Webster Tarpley's book as stating that "The mastermind of the attack must have been a "sophisticated mind, provided with ample means not only to recruit fanatic kamikazes, but also highly specialized personnel. I add one thing: it could not be accomplished without infiltrations in the radar and flight security personnel."

Coming from a widely respected former head of state, Cossiga's assertion that the 9/11 attacks were an inside job and that this is common knowledge amongst global intelligence agencies is highly unlikely to be mentioned by any establishment media outlets, because like the hundreds of other sober ex-government, military, air force professionals, allied to hundreds more professors and intellectuals - he can't be sidelined as a crackpot conspiracy theorist.

The smell of truth is bracing like the smell of coffee in the morning.

[Pookie]

Hmmm. I don't know, PH. It's a little hard to believe in a conspiracy that killed so many innocent people. I know a lot of people feel that it was a conspiracy and have gone to great lengths to try to prove it, but I just find that hard to believe. I'm not debunking it, that's just what I think, is all.
Purrs,
Pookie

[PatrickHenry]

You're a good person, Pookie.

It's hard for decent folks to imagine how greedy and lustful of power the elite are.

They are totally ruthless.

[Pookie]

Thank you, PH. You're a good person too. And I think you are right, it is hard for folks to understand the greed and lust of some people. You are right when you say some are completely ruthless, and of course history backs you up. Please know I am not debunking what you say, PH, it's just that I wonder about things like this, and I only have my own opinion, not necessarily based by facts. Perhaps it is entirely possible that those in power may have caused certain things to occur but I am an engineer and I just have my own dumb opinion.
You know opinions are like a-holes and all of em stink LOL!!
Keep up the thought-provoking posts. I appreciate that.
Purrs,
That Damn Cat Pookie

[underdawg]

It seems to me that Bush and company may have had some warning that something bad might happen soon in the case of 9-11, but chose not to take action because it would have given them cause to invade Iraq. Bush was also notorious for taking more vacations than any president in history up to that time.

[Keith Hamburger]

Ah, I see you're quoting Mr. Jones.Â*Â*That would be Steven Jones.Â*Â*Steven Jones as in the 9/11 conspiracy theorist.Â*Â*Let's look at the accolades of Steven Jones.

OK. It's been 8 months and I see that no one has taken the effort to correct you.

The person being quoted is Alex Jones, not Steven Jones.

Given that, the rest of your post is irrelevant nonsense.

While you may find something to use to slander Alex Jones, you have not done so at this point.

Keith

(please note this is not a defense of anything else posted thus far, just a point that what you have posted here is absolutely worthless)

[HumanBeast]

Did Osama bin Laden really orchstrate 9/11 solo? Who else worked with him?

[jose]

Quote.¨2007 French authorities filed preliminary charges against Guillaume Dasquié, a reporter for the daily Le Monde, for publishing state secrets related to the 9/11 hijackings. Dasquié's April 16 article in Le Monde, titled "September 11: the French had long known" claimed the General Directorate of External Security (DGSE), had warned the U.S. of a possible terrorist plot that involved al-Qaeda hijacking planes and crashing them into buildings some eight months before 9/11. The article contained excerpts from a 328-page classified DGSE report on al-Qaeda activities which included maps, analyses, graphics, and satellite photos.¨end quote
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/9/11_conspiracy_theories
And if it wasnt true, why would they accuse him of revealing state secrets?

[DANG]

Did Osama bin Laden really orchstrate 9/11 solo? Who else worked with him?
A) If Osama had anything to do with it*....
He had an accomplice in the upper management of our military defense.

B) "Hijackers" had control of 4 commercial flights and were allowed to carry out their missions**.



* The FBI has stated publically "We have no hard evidence that Osama Bin Ladin had any involvement in 911" This announcement came after (doctored)video confessions were released by the WH. Check the FBI Most Wanted Terrorists page for Osama.... No Mention of 911 at all!!
TPM Muckraker (http://www.teamliberty.net/id267.html)

<snip>

On June 5, 2006, the Muckraker Report contacted the FBI Headquarters, (202) 324-3000, to learn why Bin Laden’s Most Wanted poster did not indicate that Usama was also wanted in connection with 9/11. The Muckraker Report spoke with Rex Tomb, Chief of Investigative Publicity for the FBI. When asked why there is no mention of 9/11 on Bin Laden’s Most Wanted web page, Tomb said, “The reason why 9/11 is not mentioned on Usama Bin Laden’s Most Wanted page is because the FBI has no hard evidence connecting Bin Laden to 9/11.�



Surprised by the ease in which this FBI spokesman made such an astonishing statement, I asked, “How this was possible?� Tomb continued, “Bin Laden has not been formally charged in connection to 9/11.� I asked, “How does that work?� Tomb continued, “The FBI gathers evidence. Once evidence is gathered, it is turned over to the Department of Justice. The Department of Justice than decides whether it has enough evidence to present to a federal grand jury. In the case of the 1998 United States Embassies being bombed, Bin Laden has been formally indicted and charged by a grand jury. He has not been formally indicted and charged in connection with 9/11 because the FBI has no hard evidence connected Bin Laden to 9/11.�



It shouldn’t take long before the full meaning of these FBI statements start to prick your brain and raise your blood pressure. If you think the way I think, in quick order you will be wrestling with a barrage of very powerful questions that must be answered. First and foremost, if the U.S. government does not have enough hard evidence connecting Bin Laden to 9/11, how is it possible that it had enough evidence to invade Afghanistan to “smoke him out of his cave?� The federal government claims to have invaded Afghanistan to “root out� Bin Laden and the Taliban. Through the talking heads in the mainstream media, the Bush Administration told the American people that Usama Bin Laden was Public Enemy Number One and responsible for the deaths of nearly 3000 people on September 11, 2001. Yet nearly five years later, the FBI says that it has no hard evidence connecting Bin Laden to 9/11.



Next is the Bin Laden “confession� video that was released by the U.S. government on December 13, 2001. Most Americans remember this video. It was the video showing Bin Laden with a few of his comrades recounting with delight the September 11 terrorist attacks against the United States. The Department of Defense issued a press release to accompany this video in which Secretary of Defense Donald H. Rumsfeld said, “There was no doubt of bin Laden’s responsibility for the September 11 attacks before the tape was discovered.�[2] What Rumsfeld implied by his statement was that Bin Laden was the known mastermind behind 9/11 even before the “confession video� and that the video simply served to confirm what the U.S. government already knew; that Bin Laden was responsible for the 9/11 attacks.



In a BBC News article[3] reporting on the “9/11 confession video� release, President Bush is said to have been hesitant to release the tape because he knew it would be a vivid reminder to many people of their loss. But, he also knew it would be “a devastating declaration� of Bin Laden’s guilt. “Were going to get him,� said President Bush. “Dead or alive, it doesn’t matter to me.�



In a CNN article[4] regarding the Bin Laden tape, then New York Mayor Rudy Giuliani said that “the tape removes any doubt that the U.S. military campaign targeting bin Laden and his associates is more than justified.� Senator Richard Shelby, R-Alabama, the vice chairman of the Senate Intelligence Committee said, “The tape’s release is central to informing people in the outside world who don’t believe bin Laden was involved in the September 11 attacks.� Shelby went on to say “I don’t know how they can be in denial after they see this tape.� Well Senator Shelby, apparently the Federal Bureau of Investigation isn’t convinced by the taped confession, so why are you?

more... (http://www.teamliberty.net/id267.html)




** They owned our airways for about 2 hours that day.

Can you spell "STAND DOWN"?

If there was not actual involvement in the crime.... "Make it Happen"

then they "Let it Happen", you decide.