36 Signs Your Empire Is Crumbling

[ECW]

This is what happens when you elect a dogmatic ideologue neocon as president.

Here are some rules of thumb to keep in mind, thirty-six sure-fire indicators that your empire is falling apart:

You know your empire’s crumbling when the folks who are gearing up their empire to replace yours start blowing up satellites in space. And then they don’t bother to return your phone calls when you ring up to ask why.

You know your empire’s crumbling when those same folks are cutting deals left, right and center across Asia, Latin America and Africa, while you, your lousy terms, and your arrogant attitude are no longer welcome.

You know your empire’s crumbling when you’re spending your grandchildren’s money like a drunken sailor, and letting your soon-to-be rivals finance your little splurge (i.e., letting them own your country).

You know your empire’s crumbling when it’s considered an achievement to pretend that you’ve halved the rate at which you’re adding to the massive mountain of debt you’ve already accumulated.

You know your empire’s crumbling when you weaken your currency until it looks as anemic as a Paris runway model, and you’re still setting record trade deficits. (Hint: Because you’re not making anything anymore.)

You know your empire’s crumbling when “the little brown ones� (thank you George H.W. Bush – certainly not me – for that lovely expression) in country after country of “your backyard� blow you off and proudly elect anti-imperialist leftist governments.

You know your empire’s crumbling when you can’t topple those governments and replace them with nice puppet regimes – like in the good old days – even if you wanted to. And you badly want to.

You know your empire’s crumbling when one of their leaders comes to the United Nations and makes fun of your emperor, calling him the devil, and joking about smelling sulphur where he just stood. And though a few folks cringe, everybody laughs.

You know your empire’s crumbling when just about your entire military land force is tied up in a worse-than-useless war launched on the basis of complete fabrications, that every day is actually making you less – not more – secure from external threat.

You know your empire’s crumbling when almost half the soldiers in that war are high-paid mercenaries, and you don’t dare institute a draft.

You know your empire’s crumbling when you send soldiers into war with two weeks training and a lack of armor, and then you keep them there for three, four and five rotations.

You know your empire’s crumbling when a member of the Axis of Evil can test missiles and explode nuclear warheads, and all you can do about it is mumble some pathetic warnings about how they better not do that again or there will be consequences.

You know your empire’s crumbling when you even think that there is an Axis of Evil.

You know your empire’s crumbling when a rag-tag military hodge-podge of irregulars has you pinned down in an endless fight you can’t win, but also can’t lose.

You know your empire’s crumbling when you’re too dumb to even ban Humvees as a first step toward ending your dependency on a foreign-owned crucial resource.

You know your empire’s crumbling when you trade your prior moral leadership on human rights issues for global disgust at your torture, ‘extraordinary rendition’ (a.k.a. kidnaping for torture) and the dismantling of nine centuries worth of civil liberties progress.

You know your empire’s crumbling when you blow off international law that you once helped create, and undermine the institutions of international governance that you once helped build.

You know your empire’s crumbling when opinion polls confirm that every month you’re more and more despised throughout the world.

You know your empire’s crumbling when you can’t even pull off the hanging of a tin-pot murderous former dictator without turning him into a hero.

You know your empire’s crumbling when you’re the richest country in the world, but nearly 50 million of your people don’t have basic health care coverage.

You know your empire’s crumbling when the World Health Organization ranks your healthcare system 37th ‘best’ in the world, just above Slovenia, and just below Costa Rica. (And far below Colombia, Cyprus, Saudi Arabia and Morocco.)

You know your empire’s crumbling when instead of making it easier for citizens to obtain a higher education, you’re making it harder and more expensive.

You know your empire’s crumbling when your government gives tax breaks to industries as a reward for exporting your jobs elsewhere.

You know your empire’s crumbling when the so-called ‘opposition’ party can’t even turn that obscenity into a viable campaign theme and use it to clobber the worst emperor in your history.

You know your empire’s crumbling when your middle class has been stagnant for three decades, while the wealth of the hyper-rich continues to climb through the roof.

You know your empire’s crumbling when your reaction to that is to exacerbate the problem by enacting tax policies that massively increase further still the gap between the rich and the rest.

You know your empire’s crumbling when the predatory class has taken over your government and is stripping the country of everything not bolted down to the floor. And then it sells the floor itself, as well, to your rivals.

You know your empire’s crumbling when you’re spending tens of billions of dollars you don’t own on new nuclear warheads and space weapons that don’t work, to be used against an enemy you don’t have.

You know your empire’s crumbling when one of your cities drowns and your government does next to nothing before, during and after.

You know your empire’s crumbling when a massive environmental nightmare is looming around the corner, and your emperor not only ignores it, but claims it isn’t real while taking steps to exacerbate it.

You know your empire’s crumbling when your emperor is warned by a CIA briefer of an imminent terrorist attack of vast proportions, and responds by remaining on vacation and dismissing the briefer with the words: “All right. You've covered your ass, now.�

You know your empire’s crumbling when the same emperor drops everything to fly across the country from his vacation home in order to sign a bill intervening on the wrong side of a personal medical drama involving a single family.

You know your empire’s crumbling when gays and immigrants are used as diversionary issues to keep people from thinking about the pillaging of their country and their wallets actually taking place. And it works.

You know your empire’s crumbling when people are getting more religious and less scientific, not the other way around.

You know your empire’s crumbling when your political leaders start to be chosen by dynastic rules of succession.

And you especially know your empire’s crumbling when the most idiotic child of one of the least accomplished leaders in its history is not only crowned as the next emperor, but is even revered for a time by most of the public as a great one.

Rome? Britain? Spain?

At this rate we’ll be lucky to end up like Belgium.~link~ (http://www.commondreams.org/views07/0202-26.htm)

At least Belgium has strong neighbors. We have Canada and Mexico.

[underdawg]

Sounds about right to me ECW.

[CheesyMuslim]

Sorry bout that.

1. But I got one label for you ,*neolib blatherings*.

Regards,
SirJamesofTexas

[lily]

ECW......I don't know whether to laugh or cry........but I do know that it's time for someone to tell the emperor he has no clothes.

[Labrocca]

And this is what happens when you have people that are overtly concerned about tearing down a president rightfully elected by the people. It's getting sickening to me your commentary ECW. You are great at throwing the president jabs all day long. Yet I rarely see anything of substance or suggestions to fix America's problems from you. The venom you spew is really getting old. Neocons, chimpy, and the rest of your hyperbole isn't changing peoples minds.

It just appears that you are an anarchist waiting for America to fall.

[lily]

Odd, I see a lot of attacking the poster, but nothing attacking the post.

[Elrathin]

It just appears that you are an anarchist waiting for America to fall.


And it appears that some here can see Bush doing no wrong.

[Labrocca]

That's because the entire post is an attack on America and the President. There is almost nothing to comment on other than his attack.

This is what happens when you elect a dogmatic ideologue neocon as president.

Not what I consider substance to argue against.

1. America is not an "empire".
2. If his post is true then our "crumbling empire" is over and we can leave the planet now.
3. Most of the comments don't even have any evidence.[hr]

It just appears that you are an anarchist waiting for America to fall.


And it appears that some here can see Bush doing no wrong.


If you are speaking about me personally that's simply not true at all. I can't speak for others.

[Elrathin]

That's because the entire post is an attack on America and the President. There is almost nothing to comment on other than his attack.


Then refute the article and the points. This Bush loving "Nuh uh" mantra is getting old from the right.

Gay marriage ban anyone? Always is brought about a few months before an election as a "talking point" to try and sucker the Religious right into voting for the candidate that uses it.

Iraq war? Is the insurgency still in the last throes Labrocca? Oh wait, that one was debunked. This whole administration has blown smoke up the people's ass in regards to the Iraq war.

How about the out of control spending Laborcca? Or do you think just like a 16 year old that you don't have to worry about paying any of the money back?

How about the economy Labrocca? If it is doing so well, why is the middle class suffering, housing starting to decline, more foreclosures, more people with little savings, etc. I guess that is a fairy tale as well.

Sorry, but there is a lot of truth in the article with some of the points. Not all of it is, but there is DEFINATELY points that are true outside the "empire" statements that Bush lovers like to hide from and pretend they don't exist or to candy coat them.

[Labrocca]

It appears Elrathin that you don't read too many of my posts.

1. gay marriage....not really brought up as a recent topic by GOP
2. I have been saying for a while now we should leave Iraq and all hell be damned
3. I have said the economy is great but spending is out of control. Most true conservatives understand this. Lots of the spending has to do with the military budget which I would be fine with cutting half.

However his quoted post is nothing more than some idealistic diatribe against America (the empire) and Bush. His post is leftist propaganda. It's lies told so often and so well that many believe them.

[CheesyMuslim]

Sorry bout that,

1. Ahhh The Empire Strikes Back!
2. With Global Warming.
3. The Sky Is Falling, coming from the neolibs.
4. People loose houses, ahhh help!!!!!
5. Crime is rampant, and its Bush's fault!!!!
6. Mexico is sending people here to take our jobs!!!!!
7. And its those GD Republicans doing it to us Democratics!!!!!!!!!!!
8. Hehehehehehehehehehehe,.......

Regards,
SirJamesofTexas

[Elrathin]

It appears Elrathin that you don't read too many of my posts.


I read enough of them to know you never come down on the conservatives here with their "idealistic diatribe" such as when Chess writes his stuff about Gays, Muslims, "neolibs" etc. , but like to hammer ECW for posting an article he didn't even write and you refuse to refute the inner points. That is what is known as bias.


1. gay marriage....not really brought up as a recent topic by GOP

It happens each election year Labrocca, and I would be willing to bet money it is brought up in 2008 right on time.


2. I have been saying for a while now we should leave Iraq and all hell be damned

Many conservatives are saying that now, however, they were trumpeting their horns of victory before the 2004 election.


3. I have said the economy is great but spending is out of control. Most true conservatives understand this.

Again, if the economy is soo great, why are many more people having troubles then ever before financially?


However his quoted post is nothing more than some idealistic diatribe against America (the empire) and Bush. His post is leftist propaganda. It's lies told so often and so well that many believe them.


As I said, aside from the "empire" analogy, there were good points raised.

The lies the rightist propaganda tell are even more dangerous and have cost lives.

[CheesyMuslim]

Sorry bout that,

1. Kinda like what Clinton's did and not go after Osama Obama, eh?
2. If they had just gone after the tall one with beard, then we wouldn't of lost the 3k on 911 eh ???
3. Yeah Bush sent men to go fight a war, or conflict, hasn't been much warring going on really.
4. The real crimes, are the neolibs media machine trying to turn the populace against our own Nation and troops, that's a freak-in crime, if you asked me!

Regards,
SirJamesofTexas

[Elrathin]

3. Yeah Bush sent men to go fight a war, or conflict, hasn't been much warring going on really.

Yeah a civil war in Iraq where 100s of thousands have died or been injured, along with U.S. troops dying or being injured, isn't really much going on right Chess. :rolleyes: Of course you can say that considering you are not doing the fighting, dying, or being injured in war.


. The real crimes, are the neolibs media machine trying to turn the populace against our own Nation and troops, that's a freak-in crime, if you asked me!

Well no one asked you Chess ;) As for the media being a crime, you're right, Fox news is a crime.

[lily]

Anyone care to actually discuss the post, point by point?

[Cobra]

Not me.

I don't really agree with the article is my opinion, my brain is to tired for anything more right now.

[Labrocca]

Anyone care to actually discuss the post, point by point?


That's the problem. That entire post he made is like every thread here rolled into one. It would take me a week to type out a proper response to all that garbage. It's unfocused and a general attack on America and the President and that's how I chose to respond...to attack his attack.

Elrathin - I don't have a bias for CWN...I have already stated I don't take him seriously with his listed posts and often I think he is being comical but it's missed by members. If ECW is trying to be funny I don't sense it. His posts are always the exact same type of name calling on our President and his cabinet. This time he even calls America an Empire and wishes for it's collapse with glee. That post could have been pulled or translated from ANY Al-Qaeda or terrorist site. It was posted here and it's offensive that an American has these views and agrees. No wonder the world hates us...we have too many self-loathers in America to gain any external respect. To get respect you must at least respect yourself.

[CheesyMuslim]

Sorry bout that,

1. But sure I post with a flare of humor.
2. That's how I, *The Highly Trained Political/Conservative Biblical Adviser*, gathers an audience.
3. Those of wisdom know that you can't spout out gloom and doom all the time, and keep your audience, if no one reads my stuff, then it would be pointless to share it, don't you think?
4. I want you to take what I say seriously, when I'm being serious, and when I'm being funny, I want you to have a chuckle or laugh.
5. I do not want to depress you when I am scolding you for being wrong, I want you to take away with you a smile, even thou you have be sharply reproved.
6. For if I make you sad, and depressed, you will in-turn want to do the same to me, and if that were to happen, then we would all be depressing, and full of doom and gloom.
7. And for the betterment of my fellow man, I try not to add misery to you and depression, I want you to see the light, and find the better way, and at the same time feel free to make your own decisions.
8. Back on Topic: I think that this thread is one long piss and moan, where some geek, somewhere who hates everyone and everything, wrote this, and wants to go to another country, but hasn't got the balls to leave, so he wants to force change by shame, and gloom.
9. Which I don't think is a sound way of getting to change, you have to provide a better way, if you want change, and in this thread there is no way suggested.
10. So its just a gloomy piece that puts everyone in the same gloomy mood, which I *The Great CWN* refuse.

Regards,
SirJamesofTexas

[Elrathin]

Elrathin - I don't have a bias for CWN...I have already stated I don't take him seriously with his listed posts and often I think he is being comical but it's missed by members.

So you think calling for the death of all Muslims is comical? Wow, that's pretty sick there, because that is what CWN has said in the past.

As for the article, it is quite clear no conservative here will actual debate what is in the article and chooses to play "attack the messenger instead".

[Labrocca]

Jeez Elrathin why don't you put MORE words into my mouth. I stated it very clearly and you even quoted it.

I DON'T TAKE HIM SERIOUSLY and OFTEN I tHINK HE IS BEING COMICAL.

Nowhere in there does it say I find his post about the death of all Muslims funny. Just because I think he is trying to be funny doesn't mean I always find everything he says as humorous or in good taste.

[BoogyMan]

My cable Internet connection died last night or I would have chimed in on this mess earlier. Let me see if I get the gist.

The left wingers here are demanding a point by point refutation of this "article" as if it were fact based journalism and in having done so expect commondreams.org to be accepted as a legitimate source. The hypocrisy is amazing and it has evidenced a sickening level of dishonesty.

The "About Us" page at commondreams.org opines thusly:


Source: Link (http://www.commondreams.org/about.htm)

It's been said that dreams are our roadmaps to the future. If so, where are we headed? Common Dreams is a national non-profit citizens' organization working to bring progressive Americans together to promote progressive visions for America's future. Founded in 1997, we are committed to being on the cutting-edge of using the internet as a political organizing tool - and creating new models for internet activism.

This is NOT a site that is objective and the "article" is little more than a hit piece that evidences the unhinged lefts desire to see the failure of the U.S. on the national stage.

[underdawg]

I don't think the post had anything to do with being against america. I feel more hopefull now that Democrats are in control of congress and now there is a balance of power restored to the government. The Empire that Bush was intent on creating was one of complete control of government without checks and balances. I think it is a good thing to see Bush's power and influence weakened. I don't think he had the best interest of the country in mind.

[Labrocca]

I don't think the post had anything to do with being against america. I feel more hopefull now that Democrats are in control of congress and now there is a balance of power restored to the government. The Empire that Bush was intent on creating was one of complete control of government without checks and balances. I think it is a good thing to see Bush's power and influence weakened. I don't think he had the best interest of the country in mind.


That post most certainly did attack America. Working to change government is one thing but undermining the confidence of our country and political system is another. That's great the Dems got some power...good for them. Do you see me screaming any bloody murder over it?

The Empire that Bush was intent on creating was one of complete control of government without checks and balances.

That's complete conjecture.

[underdawg]

Bush did everything in his power to ruin our repution in the world. Bush ruined the confidence that people felt towards this country by trying to divide this nation by pitting democrats against republicans. We were united for a brief period of time, but Bush took advantage of the American people's fears used it against ourselves.

[BoogyMan]

Bush did everything in his power to ruin our repution in the world.

Unprovable and simple the speculation of one who is known to despise the president and everything he stands for. Conjecture.

Bush ruined the confidence that people felt towards this country by trying to divide this nation by pitting democrats against republicans.

See previous commentary and add on that EVERY politician's job is to pit their ideas and beliefs against those with whom they disagree. Don't even try to tell me that in the years before Bush took office they were holding hands and singing kumbaya together in the wells of the house and senate.

You speak as if your side of the isle has clean hands in all of this and it is completely foolish.

We were united for a brief period of time, but Bush took advantage of the American people's fears used it against ourselves.

Kool-aid? Yeah, I think so.

[underdawg]

Yes, Bush's actions led me to believe this way. I remember the lead up to the war in Iraq. What you republicans saw as determination in Bush, I saw as arrogance and being blinded to other opposing views. It was no fantasy that Republicans tried to link dissent and being opposed to the war as being on the side of terrorism. It is one thing to have opposing views, but this president created an atmosphere of fear and seemed quite determined to keep the country divided. He kept pushing hot button domestic issues during a time of war and seemed to try to link the war into some sort of battle against "good vs evil".

Those stupid color charts they came up with showing higher forms of warning quickly dissappeared immediately after the 1004 presidential election. They were mearely scare tactics used to keep us under control and vote out of fear.

I think it was indeed fact that our reputation was ruined by Bush's arrogance and lack of diplomacy during the lead up to the war. It is my opinion that Bush was an aweful president, but apparently I am not alone. It seems that now a majority of the American public is against him as well. I always wondered how long it would take and how far down in the gutter we would be dragged before the American people woke up and realized how wrong this administration has been. I hope to see Bush take the same helicopter ride of shame home that Nixon took home years ago. No president deserves it more.

[lily]

My cable Internet connection died last night or I would have chimed in on this mess earlier.Â*Â*Let me see if I get the gist.

The left wingers here are demanding a point by point refutation of this "article" as if it were fact based journalism and in having done so expect commondreams.org to be accepted as a legitimate source.Â*Â*The hypocrisy is amazing and it has evidenced a sickening level of dishonesty.

Demand a point by point refutation.........what a hoot! What I asked was, how about attacking the post instead of the poster.......but now I see that you have changed it up to attacking the source......this coming from someone that thinks ynet is an unbiased source and posting posts from DU equals proof.:rolleyes:

[J316]

If you hate america SO much, why don't you leave and go to another country and tell me if it's better off. this really Ticks me off. NEw orleans happened because of natral causes. everyone who was there KNEW this could happened. bush had no control over it. NEWSFLASH: BUSH AIN'T GOD EVERYBODY!!!!

[Elrathin]

If you hate america SO much, why don't you leave and go to another country and tell me if it's better off.


There is a difference in hating your country and hating how the people are running it. It would serve you well to learn that difference.

Criticizing how people are running it, is not Un-American.

[lily]

If you hate america SO much, why don't you leave and go to another country and tell me if it's better off. this really Ticks me off.

What yo don't realize is that we are just as American as you are, maybe more so, because we can't stand what has been done to a once great country.

NEw orleans happened because of natral causes. everyone who was there KNEW this could happened. bush had no control over it. NEWSFLASH: BUSH AIN'T GOD EVERYBODY!!!!

Don't know where you pulled that one out of, since no one was discussing it.

[lily]

Thought I'd give a few a try, I don't much care for football and nothing
else is on.........and I can never resist page 4!

Odd, people complain that this is nothing but another Bush bash,
or I hate America. I've posted pro-Bush threads and the only comments posted
on them were I'm surprised you posted them, others were completely ignored.
I also don't see those complaing posting any positive threads.



Quote:
Here are some rules of thumb to keep in mind, thirty-six sure-fire
indicators that your empire is falling apart:

You know your empire's crumbling when the folks who are gearing up their
empire to replace yours start blowing up satellites in space. And then they
don't bother to return your phone calls when you ring up to ask why.

You know your empire's crumbling when those same folks are cutting deals
left, right and center across Asia, Latin America and Africa, while you,
your lousy terms, and your arrogant attitude are no longer welcome.

Ok, people are you saying that China didn't conduct an anti-satellite
weapons test, blowing up an old weather satellite, showing that they could
also blow up our spy satellites? Are you saying that Bush didn't piss away
some of the goodwill that he had built up with China, because they wouldn't
go along with the harsh sanctions Bush wanted against Israel and then
settled for more leient? Are you saying that China isn't selling weapons and
anything else they can to Asia, Latin America and Africa?

You know your empire's crumbling when you're spending your grandchildren's
money like a drunken sailor, and letting your soon-to-be rivals finance your
little splurge (i.e., letting them own your country).

Well......I don't think there is anyone on this forum, that doesn't agree
with this.

You know your empire's crumbling when it's considered an achievement to
pretend that you've halved the rate at which you're adding to the massive
mountain of debt you've already accumulated.

Are you saying that Bush hasn't gone to congress asking for more money than
he previously thought he would need? There's a bill before congress now
asking for more money. When you tell the people it's going to cost 1
billion, then come back six months later and say, woops, looks like we need
more, then you are only asking for half of what you need. Most recent (http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/02/01/iraq.surge/index.html?eref=rss_topstories)


You know your empire's crumbling when you weaken your currency until it
looks as anemic as a Paris runway model, and you're still setting record
trade deficits. (Hint: Because you're not making anything anymore.)

Are you saying that the dollar is strong, or are you saying we export more
than we import, because other than cars, I can't think of much else that
we're exporting and I also can't remember the last time I saw Made in
America stamped on anything. I take that back. I still have a 10 year old
RCA TV.

You know your empire's crumbling when "the little brown ones" (thank you
George H.W. Bush - certainly not me - for that lovely expression) in country
after country of "your backyard" blow you off and proudly elect
anti-imperialist leftist governments.

Iran, Syria.

You know your empire's crumbling when you can't topple those governments and
replace them with nice puppet regimes - like in the good old days - even if
you wanted to. And you badly want to.

I don't even have to mention Iran and Syria in this one. If al-Maliki
doesn't straighten up, Bush promised him his job was in danger.

You know your empire's crumbling when one of their leaders comes to the
United Nations and makes fun of your emperor, calling him the devil, and
joking about smelling sulphur where he just stood. And though a few folks
cringe, everybody laughs.

Well, if you don't remeber Chavez's trip, then I do and how people laughed about it.
We are a laughing stock.

You know your empire's crumbling when just about your entire military land
force is tied up in a worse-than-useless war launched on the basis of
complete fabrications, that every day is actually making you less - not
more - secure from external threat.

I don't see how anyone can deny this.

You know your empire's crumbling when almost half the soldiers in that war
are high-paid mercenaries, and you don't dare institute a draft.
Most recent example, right here on this forum. (http://www.democracyforums.com/showthread.php?tid=3337)

You know your empire's crumbling when you send soldiers into war with two
weeks training and a lack of armor, and then you keep them there for three,
four and five rotations.

Well on this one, I'm sure everyone here has read articles about soldiers
sending letters home asking for armour......or even silly string and I'm
sure no one is going to argue that stop gap hasn't been used. I will freely
admit that I don't know much about basic training and thought that 2 weeks
training was unbelievable, but then I did a search and found this one part
was untrue and the 2 week training was intense and did get the soldiers
ready.Â*Â*Link (http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0OXU/is_9_60/ai_n15675504)

You know your empire's crumbling when a member of the Axis of Evil can test
missiles and explode nuclear warheads, and all you can do about it is mumble
some pathetic warnings about how they better not do that again or there will
be consequences.

North Korea?

You know your empire's crumbling when you even think that there is an Axis
of Evil.

This one I have no reply to.

You know your empire's crumbling when a rag-tag military hodge-podge of
irregulars has you pinned down in an endless fight you can't win, but also
can't lose.

This should be obvious. Stay the course is working so well, that we're adding on to it.

You know your empire's crumbling when you're too dumb to even ban Humvees as
a first step toward ending your dependency on a foreign-owned crucial
resource.

Well, you can't tell peole what to drive, but I think it's a sin, when we
are driving the Humvees and our soldiers can't even get them with proper
armour.

You know your empire's crumbling when you trade your prior moral leadership
on human rights issues for global disgust at your torture, 'extraordinary
rendition' (a.k.a. kidnaping for torture) and the dismantling of nine
centuries worth of civil liberties progress.

Rather obvious.

You know your empire's crumbling when you blow off international law that
you once helped create, and undermine the institutions of international
governance that you once helped build.

Geneva Convention?

You know your empire's crumbling when opinion polls confirm that every month
you're more and more despised throughout the world.

Another obvious

You know your empire's crumbling when you can't even pull off the hanging of
a tin-pot murderous former dictator without turning him into a hero.

Well, you got to admit, that was a fiasco, as the taunters were calling out
the name of the leader of the army that is killing our army and it doesn't
look like al-Maliki is bothering to put an end to his fighting. Why should
he, when he is his main protector? In fact it now seems that they've gone
underground.Â*Â*Sorry, the bumbling of Sadaam's hanging in some Muslim's eyes
did make his a hero, especially when he had more pride than the people
hanging him. Even Bush said he was embarrassed by this.

You know your empire's crumbling when you're the richest country in the
world, but nearly 50 million of your people don't have basic health care
coverage.

Truth hurts, although I do take this as a partisan shot.

You know your empire's crumbling when the World Health Organization ranks
your healthcare system 37th 'best' in the world, just above Slovenia, and
just below Costa Rica. (And far below Colombia, Cyprus, Saudi Arabia and
Morocco.)

This I found hard to believe, so I did a check. (http://www.who.int/inf-pr-2000/en/pr2000-44.html)


You know your empire's crumbling when instead of making it easier for
citizens to obtain a higher education, you're making it harder and more
expensive.

Never fear, the Democrats are here! (http://www.chicagotribune.com/business/yourmoney/chi-0702040391feb04,0,1634924.story?coll=chi-businessyourmoney-hed)

[BoogyMan]

Lily what you are desperate to overlook is the source. Commondreams.org is a left-wing site. Had I posted from an equivalent site you would be all over me like the smell of alcohol on a Kennedy.

This is the equivalent of posting an entry from Democratic Underground or the Daily Kos and demanding that it be refuted.

This is truly beneath you.

[lily]

Lily what you are desperate to overlook is the source.Â*Â*Commondreams.org is a left-wing site.Â*Â*Had I posted from an equivalent site you would be all over me like the smell of alcohol on a Kennedy.

This is the equivalent of posting an entry from Democratic Underground or the Daily Kos and demanding that it be refuted.

This is truly beneath you.


I don't know why I have to keep re-posting my comments, Boogy. Please try and read the entire post.

this coming from someone that thinks ynet is an unbiased source and posting posts from DU equals proof

As for the original post......I've posted links to some of it and I posted my opinion on some of it......the rest I didn't bother, since I thought no one would actually be replying to the original post anyway.

So.......nit-pick, insult, ignore and compalin away, but by all means, don't discuss.

[BoogyMan]

As for the original post......I've posted links to some of it and I posted my opinion on some of it......the rest I didn't bother, since I thought no one would actually be replying to the original post anyway.

So.......nit-pick, insult, ignore and compalin away, but by all means, don't discuss.

Lily, lily, lily. Sad really. You commented thusly:

Anyone care to actually discuss the post, point by point?

If you are going to obfuscate, try not to make it so easy to completely tear apart. This hit piece anti American CRAP is unworthy of discussion.

[lily]

Boogy.........seriously your posts tonight are not making any sense.

[BoogyMan]

Boogy.........seriously your posts tonight are not making any sense.


Try READING them. LOL

[ECW]

First, it's attack the poster and then it's Shoot The Messenger. Whatever will the rightwingers do next to keep from discussing the crumbling of the American Dream?

Numerous salient points were made not only in the original post but by Lily as well and THEN you refuse to discuss them? What did you take "umbrage" at now? Better yet, sit down and have a glass of that sour grape kool-aid you keep talking about. It will calm your nerves.

[Labrocca]

I am suppose to respond to comments like this:

You know your empire?s crumbling when you?re spending your grandchildren?s money like a drunken sailor, and letting your soon-to-be rivals finance your little splurge (i.e., letting them own your country).

I don't even know what it means!Â*Â*I don't know how much drunken sailors spend on his grandchildren....and who are these soon-to-be rivals that are financing the drunken sailor?Â*Â*Is it Bluto trying to get Olive Oil again by getting Popeye into trouble?

What yo don't realize is that we are just as American as you are, maybe more so, because we can't stand what has been done to a once great country.

WOW...That comment is the elitist mentality of the left that's the real problem. "ONCE GREAT"....ugh..hello...STILL GREAT!

[ECW]

I am suppose to respond to comments like this:

You know your empire?s crumbling when you?re spending your grandchildren?s money like a drunken sailor, and letting your soon-to-be rivals finance your little splurge (i.e., letting them own your country).

I don't even know what it means!Â*Â*I don't know how much drunken sailors spend on his grandchildren....and who are these soon-to-be rivals that are financing the drunken sailor?Â*Â*Is it Bluto trying to get Olive Oil again by getting Popeye into trouble?

It means that you are spending money that you don't have and letting Communist China buy our debt which in turn puts us at their mercy.

What yo don't realize is that we are just as American as you are, maybe more so, because we can't stand what has been done to a once great country.

WOW...That comment is the elitist mentality of the left that's the real problem.Â*Â*"ONCE GREAT"....ugh..hello...STILL GREAT!

I hope you are not telling me that we still have the respect of the world, are you? We may be powerful militarily and perhaps economically but morally were are broken. "Elitist mentality of the left"? Nope, not unless you are saying that leftists care that our moral standing has evaporated under this president while righties could care less because we could wipe them off the face of the earth.

The point here of all of this is that for six years conservatives have had their way in running this government and country without any substantial opposition. Look what you have done to it. You have destroyed in six short years what had taken us more than a half century to build up. Sad part is, you all can't see it.

[ECW]

Anyone care to actually discuss the post, point by point?


That's the problem.Â*Â*That entire post he made is like every thread here rolled into one.Â*Â*It would take me a week to type out a proper response to all that garbage.Â*Â*It's unfocused and a general attack on America and the President and that's how I chose to respond...to attack his attack.

If ECW is trying to be funny I don't sense it.Â*Â*His posts are always the exact same type of name calling on our President and his cabinet.Â*Â*This time he even calls America an Empire and wishes for it's collapse with glee.Â*Â*That post could have been pulled or translated from ANY Al-Qaeda or terrorist site. It was posted here and it's offensive that an American has these views and agrees.Â*Â*No wonder the world hates us...we have too many self-loathers in America to gain any external respect.Â*Â*To get respect you must at least respect yourself.


I hesitated to respond to this attack on my patriotism and my Americanism but I've never let anyone get away with it so far and I'm not going to make an exception for you.

First of all, I didn't write this. Someone else did and I posted it to get a discussion going. Since you decided to attack me for posting it instead of discussing the article itself, I won't bother telling you where I differ with it. You seemingly would rather make this about me. Fine. No problem.

You got any fucking clue why I go after Chimpy & Company so hard? Any fucking clue at all, Labrocca? It's because the promise he made in 2000 to bring a different tone to Washington, to have a humble foreign policy, to "work to build a single nation of justice and opportunity," "to advance my convictions with civility, to pursue the public interest with courage, to speak for greater justice and compassion" were promises I actually believed he would keep. Little did I know at the time he was inaugurated he was already working to put his neoconservative stamp on every aspect of government to the exclusion of every other ideal. All that wonderful language was just one huge ass lie. It was my introduction to the World of The Neocon where words don't mean anything if you are talking to the other side. Liberals like me are not important enough to tell the truth to in the world of George Walker Bush.

I felt an enormous sense of betrayal until 9/11 when I believed in him again. I truly believed that he was mad enough to hunt down Osama Bin Laden and bring him to the justice he so richly deserves. Well... how that worm got turned around I'll never know because now we were going after some tin pot dictator that we supported in a war against Iran just a few short years before. WTF?

The more I saw of your precious George Walker Bush, the more I realized that we had been sold a bill of goods by George Walker Bush himself. Well, fool me twice, shame on me. I am critical of him and his like minded minions because they are clueless as far as the world goes and as far as the country goes because their ideology rules them, not their common sense. And they will lie at the drop of a hat to cover their asses.

That post could have been pulled or translated from ANY Al-Qaeda or terrorist site.

You can stuff that al-Qaeda reference up your ass, pal. I am a loyal American and have been all my life. If you think for one fucking second that I actually wish for a fascist religious outfit to rule over me and this country, you're dumber than a box of rocks. Ban me if you want for that but I won't let you or anyone else on this board call me a terrorist sympathizer because I don't agree with the direction that this country is taking. That bullshit about either being with us or against us is just that: bullshit.

The world hates us because we have betrayed OUR OWN IDEALS in the name of political expediency. We used to be able to use our moral compass to influence the world by example. Now our words on these issues ring hollow by our actions. They ring hollow because we torture people, we send them to other countries so they can torture them, we hold people for years without trials and when we do hold trials they are in secret. We invaded a country that was not a threat to our country all because someone believed a blowhard dictator's claims to have powerful weapons (that he somehow never used despite numerous opportunities to do so). The world sees it. I see it. 66% of the country sees it.

Self-loather? Not hardly. I am a critic, a partisan, a Christian, a demanding son of a bitch when it comes to the actions of my elected representatives but I am hardly a self-loather. I want the best from them and when I don't get it, I let them hear about it. Not only do I write to the worthless fuck of a Congressman that I have but also the two dumbshit Senators that suck tit on George Walker Bush's every move as if they were cloned from him. I write to them about matters that concern my family and everything else worth talking about you get to witness from me when you put up a board like this here.

Just for your clarification, not every thread that I post here is critical of your beloved president and his followers. Look around. Just in the last few weeks I posted a Super Bowl prediction thread, Molly Ivins thread, a TV show thread, as well as articles about Texas since you have a host of Texans here.

My sense of this is that you are tired of all the criticism of George Walker Bush. Well, I am tired of criticizing him because he never changes his spots no matter what he says he will do. When he has a choice between the middle class and the rich, he picks the rich every time. When he can choose between serving the people and serving big business, he picks big business every time. When he can choose between making the government do something and letting private contractors fill in, he picks the private contractors everytime and the public gets shortchanged every time. When he spends money, the military gets all they want and the people and their programs are left wanting. It's been the same thing for six years. I have only two more years of bashing Bush to go and then I can reload for the next administration.

In the meantime, I'll be posting somewhere and criticizing the shortcomings and failures of our elected officials. I don't really care what forum it will be on. I happen to like this one but I can move on to another one just as easily as Nemo did.

[CheesyMuslim]

Sorry bout that,

1. But I see Labrocca as doing what you do ECW, attacking the disrespectful tone of this thread.
2. People who think and post this kind of monologue, and stand with it, had better form a new country, or move on to another.
3. This kind of crap is founded on revolutionary ideas.
4. If those who really think this is reality, in all points, should consider finding another country, or try to take over this one, because if you really think this to be true, you should be true to yourself, and leave this, *GREAT NATION*, or try to take it away from us.
5. Otherwise your a hangeroner, and are just sucking up to America more or less like the illegal aliens who come here only for the money.
6. If I believed this to be true, I would be moving to my summer home in the Philippines, which some day I will, but not for these reasons.
7. Its sad to see the commentary sink to this level of total gutter talk, with F-BOMBS! and F-U!,and F-THIS!
8. That is itself shows the lack of maturity.
9. When I was a young man, say late teens, I used to talk that way, because it made me sound like I had some authority, but that was foolishness.
10. In order to be true to yourself, anyone who really really thinks this topic is true, should leave USA as soon as possible, I sure would.

Regards,
SirJamesofTexas

[bobbylien]

3. This kind of crap is founded on revolutionary ideas.

You mean like the United States of America? I find it sad that this country has been turning into the very thing our founding fathers hated about Britain.
Wanting change doesn't mean you hate this country, it is people like YOU chess who are working to destroy this country.

[CheesyMuslim]

Sorry bout that,

1. Oh really?
2. Explain how so.
3. This should be funny.

Regards,
SirJamesofTexas

[BoogyMan]

You mean like the United States of America? I find it sad that this country has been turning into the very thing our founding fathers hated about Britain.

Care to flesh this one out a bit Bobby?

[Elrathin]

Care to flesh this one out a bit Bobby?


I can't speak for him, but when elitists are running this country and taking their cues from big business instead of the people, it is starting to turn into it.

Seriously Boogy, when is the last time a true politician was thinking of the people before himself? When was the last time that that you saw a congress that was truly representative of the people with the people's interest (and not their own) first? They are far and few between compared to the whole.

Take a look at all the waste that is done in congress today (and in the past) and the administrations (Notice I said plural, not just republicans) that have let this happen.

Again, I don't blame the politicians as much as I blame the people of the U.S. for letting this happen by continually voting along party lines and not getting involved to hold these politicians accountable.

[lily]

I am suppose to respond to comments like this:

You know your empire?s crumbling when you?re spending your grandchildren?s money like a drunken sailor, and letting your soon-to-be rivals finance your little splurge (i.e., letting them own your country).

I don't even know what it means!Â*Â*I don't know how much drunken sailors spend on his grandchildren....and who are these soon-to-be rivals that are financing the drunken sailor?Â*Â*Is it Bluto trying to get Olive Oil again by getting Popeye into trouble?

Odd how you memory failed you from page one, where you agreed. I'm also sorry that you didn't know that China holds most of our debt.

It appears Elrathin that you don't read too many of my posts.

3. I have said the economy is great but spending is out of control.Â*Â*Most
true conservatives understand this.Â*Â*Lots of the spending has to do with the
military budget which I would be fine with cutting half.

[lily]

Sorry bout that,

2. People who think and post this kind of monologue, and stand with it, had better form a new country, or move on to another.

I'm not sure what's different about ECW's monologues than your's, both are stating strong opinions. You just don't like his choice of topic and I can't speak for ECW, but I would imagine he feels the same about yours.
3. This kind of crap is founded on revolutionary ideas.
4. If those who really think this is reality, in all points, should consider finding another country, or try to take over this one, because if you really think this to be true, you should be true to yourself, and leave this, *GREAT NATION*, or try to take it away from us.
5. Otherwise your a hangeroner, and are just sucking up to America more or less like the illegal aliens who come here only for the money.
6. If I believed this to be true, I would be moving to my summer home in the Philippines, which some day I will, but not for these reasons.
Yes, we have seen what happens to countries that oppress their people from speaking out against their government.

[Labrocca]

It means that you are spending money that you don't have and letting Communist China buy our debt which in turn puts us at their mercy.

They say that! Why talk about Empires and Chimpy and all that other mumbo jumbo crap which is silly. If you want to present an argument that you want to win you lay it out in the most intelligent manner possible.

I applaud you for finally making some posts I can read. Your last few were actually GOOD! If you posted like that more often imho real debates would occur. IMHO you didn't need to post that entire quote here and say so very little about it.

Like I said...that quotes sums up a TON of possible debates. It's near impossible to figure out how to respond other than to attack it as a whole.

I tell you what ECW. I am gonna lock this topic. If you want...start a new one with a 1-2 of those quotes and your take on them. This topic isn't going anywhere anyways. It's been fun though and in all honesty...mostly civil.

I am also very sick the past couple days...ever since I got back from Disney I been trashed. Today I feel terrible...yesterday wasn't so good either. So I apologize if I am a but short tempered this week.

[BoogyMan]

I can't speak for him, but when elitists are running this country and taking their cues from big business instead of the people, it is starting to turn into it.

I think you have stuck a chord with this one Elrathin. What I wonder, though, is how we change it? I am less concerned about the influence of big business that the ruling class that seems to be developing. Like you, I am speaking about both sides of the isle. Could you or I become a congressman unless groomed for such a post? I doubt it.

Seriously Boogy, when is the last time a true politician was thinking of the people before himself? When was the last time that that you saw a congress that was truly representative of the people with the people's interest (and not their own) first? They are far and few between compared to the whole.

I cannot argue with this at all El.

Take a look at all the waste that is done in congress today (and in the past) and the administrations (Notice I said plural, not just republicans) that have let this happen.

Again, I don't blame the politicians as much as I blame the people of the U.S. for letting this happen by continually voting along party lines and not getting involved to hold these politicians accountable.


I would say that complacency is our enemy, wouldn't you?