'Democrat Party'

[ECW]

WASHINGTON — Will President Bush put the "-ic" back in "Democratic"?

That was the hot topic around Washington on Monday after the president was asked why, during his State of the Union address last week, he referred to Congress' new "Democrat majority."

"That was an oversight," Bush said in an interview Monday with National Public Radio. "I'm not trying to needle…. I didn't even know I did it."

The issue of whether it is a slur to refer to the Democratic Party without the "-ic" has become an irritant. It comes at a time when Democrats and Republicans are trying to figure out whether they can work together, after years of fierce partisanship in the nation's capital.

Some Democrats said the president's usage in the speech — even though his prepared text included the "-ic" — sent the wrong message.

"It's a long-standing intentional partisan political slight," said Daniel Weiss, chief of staff to Rep. George Miller (D-Martinez). "It's kind of like flashing colors in a gang. It's code. It says, 'I'm one of you, I'm a right-wing conservative.' "

And experts on political locution say it's a deliberate, if ungrammatical, linguistic strategy.

"The word 'democratic' has such positive emotional valence … so they politicize it to use it as a term to describe a group of political rivals," said Roderick P. Hart, a professor of communications and government at the University of Texas in Austin.

"Democrat Party" is not common usage in Texas, Hart said, noting that the only people he had heard use it were "sitting Republican legislators."

For the president's part, when told the term grates on Democrats, he pleaded ignorance. "I didn't mean to be putting fingernails on the board. I meant to be saying, Why don't we show the American people we can actually work together?" Bush told NPR.

For her part, the government's most powerful Democrat, House Speaker Nancy Pelosi of San Francisco, has brushed off the controversy. "She takes the president at his word that it was an oversight," said Pelosi spokesman Brendan Daly.

The use of the term "Democrat Party" goes back decades. One explanation sometimes offered is that Republicans began to use it to hint that corrupt Democrats were not terribly "democratic" and had no right to use that word to describe themselves. Others say it was adopted because it sounds annoying and echoes the word "bureaucrat," with its negative connotations.

Whatever the initial impulse or rationale, the term became controversial as far back as the 1950s. Sen. Joseph McCarthy (R-Wis.) famously used it to deride Democrats during his hearings investigating whether Communists had infiltrated the U.S. government. During the 1956 Republican convention, the usage was so common that it prompted the New York Times to report that dropping the "-ic" had become official party policy.

" 'Democratic' as an adjective is not descriptive of the party as it exists today," GOP spokesman L. Richard Guylay explained in that report, referring to allegations of vote-fixing by the Democratic Party's political machine in large cities. "I can't consider the party of the Pendergasts or Tammany Hall as a democratic party."

In 1957, writing about the phenomenon in American Speech, the quarterly journal of the American Dialect Society, scholar Ignace Feuerlicht wrote: "It will be interesting to see whether 'Democrat Party' will stay with us or go out of existence again or be revived and revitalized at intervals just before successive national elections."

Feuerlicht seems to have been prescient: A search of a database of presidential speeches and remarks shows that use of the term has increased during election seasons and has been aimed primarily at partisan audiences.

President Reagan used it more in 1984, the year of his reelection campaign, than at any other time in his presidency. In the case of President Bush, the term shows up in his remarks more in 2004 and 2006 — both election years — than during the rest of his time in office.

In fact, Bush's usage of the term increased dramatically last year; according to the American Presidency Project, based at UC Santa Barbara, the president was recorded using the term 22 times in 2006 — more than in the previous five years of his presidency combined.

The term also is commonly used by other Republican leaders. On Monday afternoon, the office of the top GOP leader in the House, Minority Leader John A. Boehner of Ohio, issued a news release asking, "What is the Democrat strategy in Iraq?"

"It sounds illiterate to me," said the University of Texas' Hart. "It's a noun used to modify a noun, and everyone knows you use an adjective to modify a noun."

Some Democrats doubt that the president is truly unaware of the pejorative tone of the term, but others acknowledged that it might have become such common parlance among Republican politicians that Bush used it without understanding its origin or undertones.

"It's like 'nuclear.' I just don't think he understands what he's saying," said one Democratic aide.

That was another defense Bush himself offered during the NPR interview.

"Gosh, it's probably Texas. Who knows what it is?" he said. "But I'm not that good at pronouncing words anyway." ~link~ (http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-democrat30jan30,1,7048308.story?track=rss)

To say that Republicans don't know the difference is saying either they flunked junior high English where you learn the difference between nouns and adjectives orÂ*Â*it's just smoke to cover up their arrogance at the intentional slam.Â*Â*

"That was an oversight," Bush said in an interview Monday with National Public Radio. "I'm not trying to needle…. I didn't even know I did it." Bullshit.

[Stoner]

Wow. Libs are really starting to reach now. Awesome.

[CheesyMuslim]

Sorry bout that,

1. But the neolibs are Democrats.
2. Funny how some pounce on one word.
3. Hehehehehehehehehehe,........
4. I understand that they want an ic in their party name.
5. IC!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
6. There you go!!!!
7. When you talk about the Democratic Party, and what they stand for you use Democratic, but when you speek only of the party, its *The Democrat Party*.

Regards,
SirJamesofTexas

[ECW]

Wrong, as usual. It's why neocons just don't get it.

[BoogyMan]

I find it truly amusing that this keeps getting drug up by the one single poster who consistently uses the MOST pejorative terms to describe the right side of the isle.

Cry me a river.

[Buck Laser]

Republicans have been trying this "democrat" shit for just about as long as I can remember. Back in the late 60s, a few Texans tried floating "publican" as a synonym for republican, but it just didn't catch.

It's probably fair to assume that the republicans, as the party of fine print would be intrigued by such little bits of linguistic warfare. I used to be annoyed by this shit, but now I just tend to be amused.

And Boogie's "you're another" response to ECW just adds to the impression that Dan Quayle already created of republicans as the spokesman for "inarticulate, dark things..."

[BoogyMan]

Republicans have been trying this "democrat" shit for just about as long as I can remember. Back in the late 60s, a few Texans tried floating "publican" as a synonym for republican, but it just didn't catch.

It's probably fair to assume that the republicans, as the party of fine print would be intrigued by such little bits of linguistic warfare. I used to be annoyed by this shit, but now I just tend to be amused.

And Boogie's "you're another" response to ECW just adds to the impression that Dan Quayle already created of republicans as the spokesman for "inarticulate, dark things..."


I love it when my commentary draws your attention Buck. You never fail to allow it to draw attention to the dearth of truth posted in your responses. :D

On a side note, I hope you are feeling better.

[Buck Laser]

OK, Booger, would you care to detail the "dearth of truth," or is that the first little gob you could catch onto to fling?

[BoogyMan]

OK, Booger, would you care to detail the "dearth of truth," or is that the first little gob you could catch onto to fling?


ROFLOL

My commentary dealt with the mental waste you posted with regard to my commentary.

And Boogie's "you're another" response to ECW just adds to the impression that Dan Quayle already created of republicans as the spokesman for "inarticulate, dark things..."

Oh, and I still hope you are feeling better.

[ECW]

I find it truly amusing that this keeps getting drug up by the one single poster who consistently uses the MOST pejorative terms to describe the right side of the isle.

Cry me a river.


Life's a bitch when it comes back to bite you in the ass, isn't it? I guess getting called a neocon is pejorative after all. See what you started? We just finish it.

[BoogyMan]

I find it truly amusing that this keeps getting drug up by the one single poster who consistently uses the MOST pejorative terms to describe the right side of the isle.

Cry me a river.


Life's a bitch when it comes back to bite you in the ass, isn't it? I guess getting called a neocon is pejorative after all. See what you started? We just finish it.


As I previously stated, it is AMAZINGLY humorous for you to post something like this.

Thanks for the belly laugh.

[Stoner]

Thanks for the belly laugh.


We need to switch ECW's logo from a wrestler to a jester.

ECW is sort of the class clown of our cyber-class here.

[ECW]

Thanks for the belly laugh.


We need to switch ECW's logo from a wrestler to a jester.Â*Â*

ECW is sort of the class clown of our cyber-class here.


And you are our stoned out of his mind pseudo-Republican drug addict. Thanks for another worthless time-wasting post. You seem to do a lot of these.

[ECW]

I find it truly amusing that this keeps getting drug up by the one single poster who consistently uses the MOST pejorative terms to describe the right side of the isle.

Cry me a river.


Life's a bitch when it comes back to bite you in the ass, isn't it? I guess getting called a neocon is pejorative after all. See what you started? We just finish it.


As I previously stated, it is AMAZINGLY humorous for you to post something like this.

Thanks for the belly laugh.


Hey, no problem. Like I said, it sure is telling that Republicans can play the namecalling game but piss and whine like babies when it comes back at you. I'll remember this the next time you are whining about someone being called Chimpy or The. Worst. President. Ever. or when you take "umbrige" at a baseball metaphor or when you find yourself on the other end of the Neocon call. You'll be laughing so hard your stomach hurts.

Pathetic.

[CheesyMuslim]

Sorry bout that,

1. But my *Bug In Brain* censor just went off.
2. Yeah ECW, has formed a *Bug In Brain*, and is one a triad.
3. Everything is pathetic to him now.
4. Ahh shoot, I did like ranting with him.

Regards,
SirJamesofTexas

[Labrocca]

Bush mispoke another word and you guys think it was deliberate? OMG!

Don't you guys remember this?

http://youtube.com/watch?v=0qDuG0ZYD5I

The guys says something awful in just about every speech. So what he said Democrat instead of Democratic. BIG WHOOP.

[piratemonkey]

In the long run, silliness like this out of some conservatives will backfire.
It shows they don't know the difference between a noun and an adjective. :)

(noun) http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/democrat


(adjective) http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/democratic

[Labrocca]

Ugh..."out of some conservatives"? I just see Bush misspeaking again. What's the big deal?

[piratemonkey]

Ugh..."out of some conservatives"?Â*Â*I just see Bush misspeaking again. What's the big deal?


Are you really claiming that some conservatives don't use the grammatically incorrect misnomer "Democrat Party" as some sort of weird, juvenile put-down?

You're saying that the way Bush "misspoke" just happened to be a trendy way some conservatives denigrate Democrats?

C'mon. :rolleyes:

[BoogyMan]

It really is no different than those on the left calling the president Chimpy, calling every conservative a neocon, or calling the republican party rethugs, repugs or some other such silliness.

[Labrocca]

I was absolutely unaware that calling anyone in the Democratic Party a "Democrat" was a slur.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democratic_Party_(United_States)

At the wiki page about the party "Democrats" is used VERY frequently and without any negative undertone to it. I still don't get the outrage?

Are you really claiming that some conservatives don't use the grammatically incorrect misnomer "Democrat Party" as some sort of weird, juvenile put-down?

That's exactly what I am claiming. I see the word liberals as the general slur word used by the right to describe the left they don't like.

[piratemonkey]

I was absolutely unaware that calling anyone in the Democratic Party a "Democrat" was a slur.Â*Â*

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democratic_Party_(United_States)

At the wiki page about the party "Democrats" is used VERY frequently and without any negative undertone to it.Â*Â*I still don't get the outrage?

I was really, really trying not to be snarky here, but you are pushing this point beyond the level of credulity. I hope you are sincere in the assertion that you don't understand this point. Whether you are or you aren't:

Democrat = noun
Democratic = adjective

In English, we use adjectives to describe nouns.Â*Â*E.g. Democratic party.

A person is a (noun) Democrat.
Anything that is associated with that party is (adjective) Democratic.

To say the word "Democrat" is used on wiki is not to understand the difference between a noun and an adjective... every time it is used on wiki, it is used as a noun, not an adjective.

[BoogyMan]

I was absolutely unaware that calling anyone in the Democratic Party a "Democrat" was a slur.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democratic_Party_(United_States)

At the wiki page about the party "Democrats" is used VERY frequently and without any negative undertone to it. I still don't get the outrage?

I was really, really trying not to be snarky here, but you are pushing this point beyond the level of credulity.

Democrat = noun
Democratic = adjective

In English, we use adjectives to describe nouns. E.g. Democratic party.

A person is a (noun) Democrat.
Anything that is associated with that party is (adjective) Democratic.

To say the word "Democrat" is used on wiki is not to understand the difference between a noun and an adjective... every time it is used on wiki, it is used as a noun, not an adjective.


I don't think you are getting Labrocca's point pirate, he said he doesn't get the issue, he isn't pushing anything.

[piratemonkey]

I don't think you are getting Labrocca's point pirate, he said he doesn't get the issue, he isn't pushing anything.


Heh... as you were posting this, I edited my above post, taking this into consideration. :)

Cheers.

[Labrocca]

I understand the difference between a noun and adjective but how does Bush saying "Democrat majority" become a slur vs Democratic majority? I understand he said it incorrectly but even if it was intentional what's the bad part about it?

[piratemonkey]

I understand the difference between a noun and adjective but how does Bush saying "Democrat majority" become a slur vs Democratic majority?Â*Â*I understand he said it incorrectly but even if it was intentional what's the bad part about it?

1) It's intentional.
2) It's wrong.

Children, when they are about 9 years old, insult one another by intentionally mispronouncing each other's names.

This is no different. It's amazing that grown men think this sort of thing is in any way acceptable in adult discourse.

[BoogyMan]

Children, when they are about 9 years old, insult one another by intentionally mispronouncing each other's names.

This is no different. It's amazing that grown men think this sort of thing is in any way acceptable in adult discourse.


As is chimpy or rethuglican?

[piratemonkey]

Children, when they are about 9 years old, insult one another by intentionally mispronouncing each other's names.

This is no different.Â*Â*It's amazing that grown men think this sort of thing is in any way acceptable in adult discourse.


As is chimpy or rethuglican?



You'll notice that I don't use those terms...

In addition, I've never heard a mainstream Democratic politician using those terms.

I've heard MANY mainstream Republican politicians using the term "Democrat Party."

[BoogyMan]

You'll notice that I don't use those terms...

In addition, I've never heard a mainstream Democratic politician using those terms.

I've heard MANY mainstream Republican politicians using the term "Democrat Party."


And you assume that it is being used in a derogatory fashion. That truly is the core of this discussion, assumption. I see rethug and chimpy being used by lesser functionaries of the democrat establishment all over the Internet. I have referred to the "democrat party" for years until hearing the whining coming from Democrats here about how it is a pejorative.

I will make you a deal pirate, I will call out those using democrat party if you will start calling out those using terms like chimpy and rethug.

[piratemonkey]

I will make you a deal pirate, I will call out those using democrat party if you will start calling out those using terms like chimpy and rethug.


Here's where our viewpoints might differ.

I don't have any problem with you, Labrocca or ECW using pejorative terms for political parties.Â*Â*I won't usually do it, but I'm not going to judge.Â*Â*I think one of the great things about a forum like this is that we can vent a bit from time to time.

What I don't like is when politicians and newscasters use these terms, specifically to be insulting.Â*Â*It's not appropriate.Â*Â*I'd like to hope that our leaders would be above such juvenile insults.

I also don't like it when people claim that "Democrat Party" isn't an insult.Â*Â*If they are going to insult liberals, at least take ownership of the insult.Â*Â*

It would be like me saying that "Chimpy" isn't an insult, just because Bush happens to look exactly like a chimpanzee. ;)

[BoogyMan]

Here's where our viewpoints might differ.

I don't have any problem with you, Labrocca or ECW using pejorative terms for political parties. I won't usually do it, but I'm not going to judge. I think one of the great things about a forum like this is that we can vent a bit from time to time.

What I don't like is when politicians and newscasters use these terms, specifically to be insulting. It's not appropriate. I'd like to hope that our leaders would be above such juvenile insults.

I also don't like it when people claim that "Democrat Party" isn't an insult. If they are going to insult liberals, at least take ownership of the insult.

You missed my point, I was trying to stress the idea that you cannot know whether someone is intentionally using the term "democrat party" as a pejorative, especially in light of the fact that it is a new found sensibility.

It would be like me saying that "Chimpy" isn't an insult, just because Bush happens to look exactly like a chimpanzee. ;)


Or it could be like me claiming that "dumbo" isn't an insult, just because Obama has ears just like the cartoon elephant. :D

[piratemonkey]

You missed my point, I was trying to stress the idea that you cannot know whether someone is intentionally using the term "democrat party" as a pejorative, especially in light of the fact that it is a new found sensibility.



Unfortunately, I don't believe this.

I'll buy that some individual people, like Labrocca might not know...

But Republican politicians have intentionally and purposefully used this term to be insulting for decades.Â*

Here's a bit of history:
The history of “Democrat Party� is hard to pin down with any precision, though etymologists have traced its use to as far back as the Harding Administration. According to William Safire, it got a boost in 1940 from Harold Stassen, the Republican Convention keynoter that year, who used it to signify disapproval of such less than fully democratic Democratic machine bosses as Frank Hague of Jersey City and Tom Pendergast of Kansas City. Senator Joseph McCarthy made it a regular part of his arsenal of insults, which served to dampen its popularity for a while. There was another spike in 1976, when grumpy, growly Bob Dole denounced “Democrat wars� (those were the days!) in his Vice-Presidential debate with Walter Mondale.

http://www.newyorker.com/talk/content/articles/060807ta_talk_hertzberg

It's been a insult since at least the 1940's.Â*Â*There's no way a politician, with even the slightest bit of education, couldn't know this.

[BoogyMan]

Pirate, I honestly have never heard of it being considered a pejorative until those left of center here went nuts over it. I wonder exactly how widespread the intent is?

[piratemonkey]

If the intent isn't insulting, why have you never, not once, heard a Democrat use the term?

If it is generally seen as an innocent term, I'd expect to hear it out of liberal mouths just as often as conservative.Â*Â*This is why I don't buy it.Â*Â*How could ALL Democrats know it's pejorative and not many mainstream Republicans politicians?

Read the above article... it's illuminating.

This is partly the work of Newt Gingrich, the nominal author of the notorious 1990 memo “Language: A Key Mechanism of Control,� and his Contract with America pollster, Frank Luntz, the Johnny Appleseed of such linguistic innovations as “death tax� for estate tax and “personal accounts� for Social Security privatization. Luntz, who road-tested the adjectival use of “Democrat� with a focus group in 2001, has concluded that the only people who really dislike it are highly partisan adherents of the—how you say?—Democratic Party.

The widespread use of this term has been an intentional effort of conservatives for years.Â*Â*I mean, for christ sake, Luntz tested it on a focus group!

[BoogyMan]

If the intent isn't insulting, why have you never, not once, heard a Democrat use the term?

If it is generally seen as an innocent term, I'd expect to hear it out of liberal mouths just as often as conservative. This is why I don't buy it. How could ALL Democrats know it's pejorative and not many mainstream Republicans politicians?

Read the above article... it's illuminating.

This is partly the work of Newt Gingrich, the nominal author of the notorious 1990 memo “Language: A Key Mechanism of Control,� and his Contract with America pollster, Frank Luntz, the Johnny Appleseed of such linguistic innovations as “death tax� for estate tax and “personal accounts� for Social Security privatization. Luntz, who road-tested the adjectival use of “Democrat� with a focus group in 2001, has concluded that the only people who really dislike it are highly partisan adherents of the—how you say?—Democratic Party.

The widespread use of this term has been an intentional effort of conservatives for years. I mean, for christ sake, Luntz tested it on a focus group!


Wow pirate, I guess there is nothing I can say that will drag you away from the FACT that I never intended it that way and haven't heard it considered as such other than here. I am not denying it, I am just pointing to the FACT of my experience with it.

[piratemonkey]

Wow pirate, I guess there is nothing I can say that will drag you away from the FACT that I never intended it that way and haven't heard it considered as such other than here.Â*Â*I am not denying it, I am just pointing to the FACT of my experience with it.


I believe you and Labrocca, when you say it.

I don't believe Bush, Melman or Limbaugh.

[Labrocca]

Piratemonkey...you still have not shown me HOW it's derogatory. Aren't the democratic party full of democrats? So how is Democrat Party negative? I don't get it...you haven't explained it. You just keep repeating that if Limbaugh or Bush say it then it's bad. And I have never actually paid attention if anyone else has ever said this before in a negative manner because imho it's just a simple misuse of the party name. That in itselft doesn't constitute derogatory...just a shortening. Is calling Republicans "Reps" or Goppers" derogatory? I know some think the term Liberal is derogatory YET it's part of this sites political affiliation choices and plenty of members use it.

If you want to be mad that Bush is bad with grammar that's fine but to say it was some slur and intentional is a reach. Was there any GASPS at the moment he made the statement? Doubtful. One has to wonder about this speech because it seemed to be a hit for Bush and the left sided media are looking at every word hoping to find something to put in his mouth.

[piratemonkey]

I honestly don't know how else to explain this to you.

You just repeated your errors and argument in the above post...

Boogy gets it. Ask him.

[CheesyMuslim]

Sorry bout that,

1.But when you really look at this whole thing about, *Democrat/Democratic*, you have to understand and know, that whatever the hell you call them, they hate their name.
2. And they don't want their name used in a certain way, that offends them.
3. I say screw them and their name, its all a bunch of neolibs anyway, who really cares but them anyway.
4. And why should we all be walking around them like we are stepping on egg shells?
5. Let them get a new freakin name that no one came screw up then!
6. How about, *Socialist Commie Bastards*???
7. Anyway, they could choose worse, at least no one could screw with their stupid party affiliation.

Regards,
SirJamesofTexas

[BoogyMan]

I honestly don't know how else to explain this to you.

You just repeated your errors and argument in the above post...

Boogy gets it. Ask him.


Hi pirate,

I don't know that I "get it," I am simplly willing to change my usage of the term if it is found offensive.

It is that simple.

[piratemonkey]

Hi pirate,

I don't know that I "get it," I am simplly willing to change my usage of the term if it is found offensive.Â*Â*

It is that simple.


And that's an incredibly reasonable position, Boogy.