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lily
01-31-2007, 11:26 PM
I don't care which resolution they pic, Democrat or Republican, just as long as the message gets out. We the people do not agree with this surge. (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/01/30/AR2007013000456.html?referrer=email)

For GOP, Discord In Dissent On Iraq
Senators With Doubts Over Bush Troop Plan Debate 5 Resolutions

By Jonathan Weisman and Shailagh Murray
Washington Post Staff Writers
Wednesday, January 31, 2007; Page A01

Republican misgivings over President Bush's new war strategy are
increasingly dividing the GOP as the Senate moves toward a showdown over the
deployment of 21,500 additional troops to Iraq.

Republican strategy had envisioned a single resolution that would allow the
party's senators to express doubts about the plan without stating their
outright opposition. Instead, Republicans appear to be balkanizing, with at
least five GOP drafts now in play and more Republicans stating their
reservations.


"We're all looking for a plan that will work," said Sen. Arlen Specter
(R-Pa.). "The current plan is not working, and 21,500 additional troops --
it's a snowball in July. It's not going to work."

Vice President Cheney and senior military officials attended a Republican
policy lunch yesterday, which turned into a raucous debate about the various
resolutions, according to a party leadership aide. Bush will meet with GOP
senators on Friday as the White House continues to try to tamp down
opposition.

But Republican misgivings are not subsiding. "This war has been mishandled.
No one doubts that mistakes have been made in Iraq," Sen. John McCain
(R-Ariz.), long a supporter of Bush's war policy, told Adm. William J.
Fallon at Fallon's confirmation hearing to become the top U.S. commander for
the Middle East. "I have to tell you, this committee did not get candid
assessments in the past, and I view that with deep regret."

Having chastised Democrats for not showing unity on Iraq, Republican leaders
have decided they need a resolution of their own when the Senate begins
debate on nonbinding resolutions of opposition next week.

Specter, the ranking Republican on the Senate Judiciary Committee, pushed
back against Bush's claim he is the "decision maker," saying the White House
needs to accept Congress's role in shaping war policy.

"I would suggest respectfully to the president that he is not the sole
decider," Specter said during a hearing on Congress's war powers. "The
decider is a shared and joint responsibility."

Republican leaders had hoped to divide Senate opinion largely along party
lines, to allow Bush to argue that any outright statement opposing his plan
was politically motivated partisanship. A resolution by McCain and Sen.
Lindsey O. Graham (R-S.C.) demanding tough benchmarks for progress in Iraq
was supposed to garner overwhelming Republican support, being a more
palatable alternative to language by Sen. John W. Warner (R-Va.) that would
state opposition to the troop buildup.

Instead, rival measures continue to proliferate. Sen. Judd Gregg (R-N.H.)
said he is circulating language that would forbid a cutoff of funding for
troops in the field under any circumstance, similar to another proposal by
Sen. Johnny Isakson (R-Ga.).

Sen. John Cornyn (R-Tex.) is shopping around a measure that would demand
that the president's policies be given a chance to work while calling for
the reversal of perceived war-related mistakes, such as the wholesale
purging of Baath Party members from the Iraqi government and the failure to
ensure equitable oil-revenue sharing among Iraqi groups.

"Resolutions are flying like snowflakes around here," Specter said.

Meanwhile, the two camps promoting competing resolutions of opposition --
one headed by Sens. Joseph R. Biden Jr. (D-Del.) and Chuck Hagel (R-Neb.)
and the other by Warner -- have not agreed on common language that could win
a clear majority.

"This isn't about party loyalty. This isn't about presidential politics.
It's about policy," said an exasperated Sen. Olympia J. Snowe (R-Maine), who
has been urging Warner to negotiate an agreement to meld his language with
the Democratic-driven resolution approved last week by the Senate Foreign
Relations Committee. "What America is desperately thirsting for is for the
United States Senate and the United States House of Representatives to come
to terms with where we are in Iraq."

One group of ruminating Republicans is made up of the 20 GOP senators who
will face voters in 2008. Sen. Lisa Murkowski (Alaska) said she plans to
support at least one of the measures -- but first "I've got to study them
all." Sen. John E. Sununu (N.H.), whose state is strongly against the war,
reiterated his concerns about a troop buildup even as he refused to commit
to any resolution.

The Warner measure has attracted at least three potentially vulnerable
Republicans -- Sens. Susan Collins (Maine), Norm Coleman (Minn.) and Gordon
Smith (Ore.).

Sen. Lamar Alexander (Tenn.), another Republican whose term will expire in
two years, said he was speaking for many of his GOP colleagues in asserting,
"I'm not persuaded that sending 21,500 troops into a civil war in Baghdad is
a good idea, but I haven't found a resolution I can support."

Pressed on what he is looking for, Alexander replied: "I'd like to express
my unhappiness with the way this war is being conducted, but also my support
for the troops. I think that's what we all want."

Sen. Trent Lott (Miss.), the GOP whip, said most Republican senators believe
they must support some statement about the war, given the public's growing
concerns. But he noted: "I am actually reading all the different
resolutions, and each one of them does have critical differences." He added
that he is leaning toward the Cornyn measure, which offers the fewest
objections to Bush's plan.

He said he will not try to rally Republicans around a single approach but,
rather, will urge them to "vote their conscience."

The multiplying factions raise the prospect that no measure will garner
substantially more than 50 votes next week. That would represent something
of a victory for the White House, which has argued that even nonbinding
action by the Senate would "embolden the enemy," as Defense Secretary Robert
M. Gates told reporters last week.

"The worst thing would be for the Senate by 60 votes to express disapproval
of a mission we are sending people to lay down their lives for," said Sen.
Jon Kyl (Ariz.), a member of the Republican leadership.

Democrats, who are united in their desire to stop the escalation, are
regarding the Republican divisions with some glee. "You cannot have a
resolution that is both meaningless and undercuts the troops. That's
impossible. Their position is totally inconsistent," said Rep. Rahm Emanuel
(Ill.), a member of the House Democratic leadership.

The House is expected to embark on a similar debate in the coming weeks.

Waffletush
02-01-2007, 01:03 AM
"WE" do not agree?

lily
02-01-2007, 02:00 AM
"We" as in the majority rules.

Waffletush
02-01-2007, 02:27 PM
But you said 'We the people'.Â*Â*That would be all of us.Â*Â*Which includes me. And I do not agree with your statement. :)

Guitarmitch
02-01-2007, 03:22 PM
Funny how they pull out the "majority" as being this all important thing, except when its an election. Then the majority doesnt matter so much.

I also agree that the troop surge is a good thing, as did Biden, Hillary, Ried and numerous other democrats (some as late as December '06) until Bush suggested it. Then all of the sudden they were against it.

Such hypocracy.

BoogyMan
02-01-2007, 03:27 PM
Lily, your "we the people" doesn't include me either. :)

Saigio
02-01-2007, 03:32 PM
I strongly disagree with the surge. Is it right to keep fighting when we are not needed?
We are just perpetuating more and more violence. And that is wrong.

Waffletush
02-01-2007, 04:43 PM
I strongly disagree with the surge. Is it right to keep fighting when we are not needed?

Hopefully you have some proof to back up that statement. There is a big different between 'not needed' and 'not wanted'. You disagree, fine, that means you do not want them there, but that does not mean they are not needed.

We are just perpetuating more and more violence. And that is wrong.

You think all would be peaceful if the US was not in Iraq?

Cobra
02-01-2007, 04:47 PM
Well I'll be one of the "we the people" seeing as someone has to be or it doesn't count.

lily
02-02-2007, 12:52 AM
But you said 'We the people'.Â*Â*That would be all of us.Â*Â*Which includes me.Â*Â*And I do not agree with your statement.Â*Â*:)


Well, I know bi-partisanship is something new, so read the {R} and {D}, and see what happens when both parties work together.

Link (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/01/29/AR2007012900164.html?referrer=email)

Senators Unite On Challenge to Bush's Troop Plan
Revised Warner Language That Protects Funds Is Embraced for Bipartisan
Appeal

By Shailagh Murray and Jonathan Weisman
Washington Post Staff Writers
Thursday, February 1, 2007; Page A01

Democratic and Republican opponents of President Bush's troop-buildup plan
joined forces last night behind the nonbinding resolution with the broadest
bipartisan backing: a Republican measure from Sen. John W. Warner of
Virginia.

Senate Majority Leader Harry M. Reid (D-Nev.) announced the shift, hoping to
unite a large majority of the Senate and thwart efforts by the White House
and GOP leaders to derail any congressional resolution of disapproval of
Bush's decision to increase U.S. troop levels in Iraq by 21,500.


Although the original Democratic language was popular within the party, it
had little appeal among Republicans. Warner's proposal drew support from
both sides, and it was retooled last night to maximize both Democratic and
Republican votes.

The revised resolution would express the Senate's opposition to the troop
increase but would vow to protect funding for the troops. The resolution
does not include the Democratic language saying the Bush plan is against the
national interest, but it also drops an earlier provision by Warner
suggesting Senate support for some additional troops.

"It's been a hard work in progress," Warner said of the revised resolution,
which will require the support of at least 60 senators to prevent a
filibuster.

After reviewing the Warner revisions, Reid decided the new text would take
the place of the original resolution, by Foreign Relations Committee
Chairman Joseph R. Biden Jr. (D-Del.), Armed Services Committee Chairman
Carl M. Levin (D-Mich.) and Sen. Chuck Hagel (R-Neb.). He said the Senate
will begin debating the resolution next week, provided Democrats and
Republicans can agree on a way to overcome some procedural hurdles.

House Democratic leaders reached the same decision, ordering committees to
draft a resolution next week patterned on Warner's language. But House
Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) went further, publicly hinting she will push
binding legislation that would begin bringing U.S. troops home from Iraq. "I
believe that you'll see initiatives on the floor to this effect: that we
have this year in which we should be able to drastically reduce the number
of troops," she said in an interview broadcast on National Public Radio
yesterday.

In both the House and the Senate, Democratic leaders decided to get the
largest possible vote, even if it means embracing weaker language than the
original Democratic resolution.

White House spokeswoman Dana Perino responded to the announcement by saying:
"The president wants to win in Iraq -- he's proposed a comprehensive plan to
do so, and he's asked Congress to give the plan a chance to work. . . .
These resolutions send mixed signals to our troops and our enemy."

The Warner and Biden resolutions reach almost identical conclusions, in that
they oppose the president's deployment of 21,500 additional troops and call
for existing troops to be reassigned to guard Iraq's borders, combat
terrorism and train Iraqi security forces. Both measures call for regional
diplomacy to draw Iraq's neighbors into a peace process.

But Warner revamped his original proposal, both to win over many reluctant
Republicans who thought it was too tough and to reassure Democrats who
complained he was not being tough enough on the administration.

He added language specifically opposing a cutoff of funding for U.S. troops
in a targeted appeal to Sen. Judd Gregg (R-N.H.), who had offered an
identical separate measure.

lily
02-02-2007, 01:02 AM
Funny how they pull out the "majority" as being this all important thing, except when its an election. Then the majority doesnt matter so much.

You know, if I was "that kind", I'd pull out what some on the right used to say, when they were in power.

I also agree that the troop surge is a good thing, as did Biden, Hillary, Ried and numerous other democrats (some as late as December '06) until Bush suggested it. Then all of the sudden they were against it.

Oh, I'm sure Hillary was, but I'd be interested in reading what Biden and Reid had to say. Also keep in mind, that until the ISG came out, everyone was told that everything was just fine and dandy in Iraq. You can only go on the information you have.

ECW
02-02-2007, 06:47 AM
Ouch. Bitten by the "Bipartisan Bug." The real one. Not the BS version that Chimpy rolls out every now and then.

This resolution isn't bad but it's not going to change anything. The troops will still be sent to Iraq. Only a resolution to pull the troops out of the quagmire will have any real effect.

Waffletush
02-02-2007, 05:19 PM
Oh, I'm sure Hillary was, but I'd be interested in reading what Biden and Reid had to say. Also keep in mind, that until the ISG came out, everyone was told that everything was just fine and dandy in Iraq. You can only go on the information you have.


Holy double standard Batman! I am saving that one.