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lily
01-29-2007, 01:09 AM
Link (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/01/28/wkim28.xml)

Unhappy as a boy, Kim became youngest ever transsexual at 12

By Bojan Pancevski in Vienna, Sunday Telegraph
Last Updated: 1:12am GMT 29/01/2007



A boy of 12 is believed to have become the world's youngest sex change
patient after convincing doctors that he wanted to live the rest of his life
as a female.

The boy - originally called Tim, but now known as Kim - has started to
receive hormone treatment, in preparation for the operation that will
eventually complete the sex change.

Tim was diagnosed as a transsexual two years ago, when doctors and
psychiatrists concluded that his claims to be "in the wrong body" were so
deeply felt that he required treatment. The therapy involves artificially
arresting male puberty, with a series of potent hormone injections before
the administration of female hormones to initiate the development of
features such as breasts.



Now aged 14, and officially registered as a female, Kim looks like a
typical girl of her age. She dresses in fashionable clothes, has long blonde
hair and blue eyes and dreams of moving to Paris to become a fashion
designer. Her parents, who initially assumed their son was going through a
temporary phase, eventually grew accustomed to seeing him as a girl.

The family's full identity has not been made public. But Kim's father,
known as Lutz P. - speaking to the German publications Der Spiegel and
Stern - said that as a child, the boy liked to play with Barbie dolls,
enjoyed wearing dresses and, from the age of two, insisted that he was a
girl. "We saw Kim as a girl, but not as a problem. Our life was surprisingly
normal."

Kim reacted badly to the first signs of puberty, he said. "At that
stage we realised that she was terrified of growing facial hair and her
voice breaking."

Kim's parents consulted psychiatrists across Germany. Some condemned
their support of their child's desire to undergo a sex change, or suggested
that Kim be kept under observation in a closed psychiatric ward. But others
agreed that the child should receive therapy, because growing up to be a man
would have damaged her personality.

Dr Bern Meyenburg, the head of a clinic for children and adolescents
with identity disturbances at Frankfurt University, concluded that the child
was serious. He wrote in his diagnosis: "Kim is a mentally well-developed
child who appears happy and balanced. There is no doubt of the determined
wish, that was already detectable since early childhood. It would have been
very wrong to let Kim grow up to be a man. It is rare to have such a
clear-cut case."

Kim is reportedly fully accepted by her fellow school pupils and
teachers. The costs of the procedure are being covered by health insurance,
as the condition qualifies as an illness.

Dr Achim Wuesthof, an endocrinologist specialising in children and
adolescents, who is treating the teenager at a clinic in Hamburg, said the
procedure had been a success so far. Speaking to The Sunday Telegraph, he
said that even though under-16s were not permitted to undergo a sex change
in other countries, he and his colleagues felt that in this case it had been
best to start earlier. He said: "To the best of my knowledge, Kim is the
youngest sex change patient in the world. According to German law, two
independent psychiatrists must confirm that the child is indeed transsexual
and approve the sex change. Once that has been done, it is best to start as
early as possible.

"Transsexuals experience the onset of puberty, and the physical
changes it brings, as a serious trauma. But there is a general lack of
empathy with cases like Kim's, mostly because people know little about the
condition. Imagine a man that suddenly starts growing breasts or a woman
that starts growing a beard against their will - that is how Kim and people
like her experience puberty.

"They are not freaks, nor do they suffer mental illness. They are
simply trapped in the wrong bodies. That is why it is best to help them as
early as possible and reduce the trauma for them and their families."

The problem that Dr Meyenburg and other psychiatrists faced was
distinguishing a true transsexual personality from a temporary gender
identity crisis. Dr Meyenburg quoted an example of a 15-year-old girl who
wanted to change her sex, but who revealed during counselling that she had
suffered brutal sexual abuse by her father - a case for psychological,
rather than hormonal therapy.

Should Kim change her mind before the surgery, the procedure could be
reversed. Doctors admit that the treatment involves a risk, however, and
that its effects on children as young as Kim are not fully understood.

For legal reasons, the final stage - cosmetic surgery to remove the
male genitalia - cannot take place until Kim is 18. Britain's youngest
transsexual is Angel Paris-Jordan, who was granted an operation on the NHS
at the age of 17.

Alonzo
01-29-2007, 01:23 AM
I'm always leery about undertaking such major procedures with a child, but the chance of them doing the procedure and the tim deciding that "Hey, I want to be tim, not kim!" Is extremely low, far lower than would justify having her go through the trauma of puberty only to do the operation later. That's especially true since the behavior has been present for so long.

lily
01-29-2007, 02:03 AM
While I do realize that this is a natural occurance, as a parent I don't think I would be as agreeable as these parents are. 12 is such a young age. I agree with you, Zo going through puberty would be very traumatic. It seems these parents have done all the checking and psychiatric testing available and has accepted him as a girl most of his life. It still would be a hard decision.

Cobra
01-29-2007, 02:09 AM
Well if that's what he wants. He and his parents better realize what they're doing is hard to reverse if his mind happens to change.

lily
01-29-2007, 02:19 AM
Cobra.........no surgery could be performed until he is 18. She is just getting hormones now.

Alonzo
01-29-2007, 02:31 AM
Well if that's what he wants. He and his parents better realize what they're doing is hard to reverse if his mind happens to change.


Yes but the treatments or methods that would be used to reverse it are largely ineffective. While there is some data that may suggest an increased rate of comorbid psychological problems occuring in transexuals even when the social reality is taken into account (unlike in homosexuals), the treatment is typically just as ineffective as attempting to treat a homosexual. Unless this issue arose relatively recently, it's highly unlikely it was going away.

Cobra
01-29-2007, 02:31 AM
Cobra.........no surgery could be performed until he is 18. She is just getting hormones now.

Still you would think getting those hormones would cause him to be shorter than he normally would and other such things.

slappy
01-29-2007, 02:35 AM
I consider myself an extreme liberal on questions of gay rights, gay marriage, gay adoption and so on, but I'm a bit more conservative on the question of children's rights to make adult decisions of this magnitude. Traumatic as it might be, this child is simply not old enough to make medical decisions for himself. His parents, on the other hand, ought never to be allowed to make such a drastic decision for a physically "normal" child.

I realize that this is not (yet) surgery, but messing around with a kid's hormones when it is not medically necessary still strikes me as playing Frankenstein with a kid's healthy body on the basis of nothing more than his say-so. I feel terrible for the kid, but he's just not old enough to ask for this kind of medical treatment.

Alonzo
01-29-2007, 02:37 AM
They'll supress body hair, raise her voice and induce the growth of breasts. The last point is important though, since breast growth is more significant if the treatment is started at a younger age. If she waits she may even end up getting breast implants, as many transexuals do since the hormones produced insuffient growth, partially due to the age they were put on them. If you know that that's where the person is headed anyway, might as well do it while its most effective.

They won't make her shorter though.

Alonzo
01-29-2007, 02:40 AM
Traumatic as it might be, this child is simply not old enough to make medical decisions for himself.

Is there reason to believe that any of the reasons for getting the hormones will be reversed?

Cobra
01-29-2007, 02:45 AM
They won't make her shorter though.


Okay, hormones aren't involved in that process. Why are chicks shorter then and have less broad shoulders on average.

Alonzo
01-29-2007, 03:09 AM
They won't make her shorter though.


Okay, hormones aren't involved in that process. Why are chicks shorter then and have less broad shoulders on average.


Less broad shoulders yes, the hormones will do that. Hormones will cause the person to develop a feminine figure. And the person taking them will have the capability of even lactating, if properly stimulated that is.

But the Y chromosome has a gene that contributes to mens height.

Cobra
01-29-2007, 03:14 AM
Thanks for the info Alonzo. Didn't know that, not much of a science person.

slappy
01-29-2007, 03:38 AM
He's 12. There's reason to believe he doesn't appreciate what he's asking for. If he feels the same way at 18, let him sign up for the complete package (or lack thereof).

Alonzo
01-29-2007, 03:49 AM
There's reason to believe he doesn't appreciate what he's asking for.

She's actually 14:

Now aged 14, and officially registered as a female, Kim looks like a
typical girl of her age. She dresses in fashionable clothes, has long blonde
hair and blue eyes and dreams of moving to Paris to become a fashion
designer. Her parents, who initially assumed their son was going through a
temporary phase, eventually grew accustomed to seeing him as a girl.


But considering this patten of behavior has been going on for a decade, and the person has lived practically their entire social life as a female, I'm not sure what you could see as beneficial in delaying it. It's not a new thing, and I simply don't understand what benefit you could get out of it by making the person go through the trauma of going through puberty and, after dealing with that, do the procedure to reverse everything then.

It seems the equivalent of picking out a teenage boy, forcing him to dress as a women in school for the next 4-6 years, and then allowing him to revert back to masculine dress after that. You're likely to have emotional damage that would not have otherwise been present.

slappy
01-29-2007, 03:57 AM
Okay, sorry, he's fourteen. Still four years to go.

The fact that his parents allowed him to go whole hog into cross-dressing and calling himself Kim with full knowledge that all parents have regarding the arrival of normal male puberty makes them seem all the more irresponsible to me.

I'm not sure what you mean when you say it's not a new thing. Do you mean that other 14 year olds have been allowed to have this sort of treatment?

Alonzo
01-29-2007, 04:11 AM
No, the behavior of the girl is not a new thing. She didn't just decide to be a woman a year ago.

The fact that his parents allowed him to go whole hog into cross-dressing and calling himself Kim with full knowledge that all parents have regarding the arrival of normal male puberty makes them seem all the more irresponsible to me.

But, assuming they were aware that treatment for gender identity disorder is ineffective, what good is that? It seems akin to a parent trying to force their homosexual son to be heterosexual. You may prevent them from doing it at that point in time, but the lack of acceptance of them by their loved ones won't be good for their self esteem and long term mental state.

When the kid is 18 and goes through the procedure she can either look back on her past and say that her parents and friends accepted her for who she is, or that they tried to change her and opposed who she is. It seems the latter is much more likely to produce long term problems.

slappy
01-29-2007, 04:14 AM
I think maybe we're just disagreeing about the appropriate age of consent. Would you allow a fourteen year old to make all the same decisions that an adult can make?

Alonzo
01-29-2007, 04:18 AM
The child plays a role in the decision, and the parents are not only consenting to it, but arguing that they agree that it's best for the child. I don't see the issue.

If a 14 year old showed up for an abortion they should be able to get one in my opinion. And, from what I understand, in the mind of most who don't oppose abortions, if they show up for an abortion with a consenting parent they definatley should be able to get one.

slappy
01-29-2007, 04:26 AM
Yeah, it sounds like we're talking past each other on the age thing. I wouldn't allow a child to have any elective procedure done (save an abortion following rape or required to save her life). Neither would I allow parents to make that call. Not for a nose job, not for a boob job, not for elective hormone therapy.

I'll say this though: If the child's condition could be understood to the extent that we can objectively say he truly is a she in some sense beyond his apparent self-image over a period of time (because self-images do evolve...grown men have to go through very rigorous psychological screening for this sort of therapy), I would treat that objective evidence as sufficient grounds to green light the treatment. I just don't trust the judgment and behaviour of a child as the sole basis for such drastic measures.

Alonzo
01-29-2007, 04:31 AM
It's not the sole basis:

Kim's parents consulted psychiatrists across Germany. Some condemned
their support of their child's desire to undergo a sex change, or suggested
that Kim be kept under observation in a closed psychiatric ward. But others
agreed that the child should receive therapy, because growing up to be a man
would have damaged her personality.

Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Dr Bern Meyenburg, the head of a clinic for children and adolescents
with identity disturbances at Frankfurt University, concluded that the child
was serious. He wrote in his diagnosis: "Kim is a mentally well-developed
child who appears happy and balanced. There is no doubt of the determined
wish, that was already detectable since early childhood. It would have been
very wrong to let Kim grow up to be a man. It is rare to have such a
clear-cut case."

Kim is reportedly fully accepted by her fellow school pupils and
teachers. The costs of the procedure are being covered by health insurance,
as the condition qualifies as an illness.

Dr Achim Wuesthof, an endocrinologist specialising in children and
adolescents, who is treating the teenager at a clinic in Hamburg, said the
procedure had been a success so far. Speaking to The Sunday Telegraph, he
said that even though under-16s were not permitted to undergo a sex change
in other countries, he and his colleagues felt that in this case it had been
best to start earlier. He said: "To the best of my knowledge, Kim is the
youngest sex change patient in the world. According to German law, two
independent psychiatrists must confirm that the child is indeed transsexual
and approve the sex change. Once that has been done, it is best to start as
early as possible.

"Transsexuals experience the onset of puberty, and the physical
changes it brings, as a serious trauma. But there is a general lack of
empathy with cases like Kim's, mostly because people know little about the
condition. Imagine a man that suddenly starts growing breasts or a woman
that starts growing a beard against their will - that is how Kim and people
like her experience puberty.

slappy
01-29-2007, 04:47 AM
By "basis", I mean the foundation for an opinion, not opinion itself.