How left?

[eggs]

I have noticed a growing trend in the political realm that typically not used to be true.
Lately the Democrats have been moving toward the middle on topics where as they used to be to the far left.
Same thing holds I feel with the Republicans. They used to be extream right but now are shifting toward the middle.
I do not mean as a whole but i feel that on major topics like National Security and Abortion. It now has got to the point that some "centralist" will cross party boarders and vote in opposition to their party, weather it be due to pressures of their state or the simple fact that they just dont agree with their own party.
Do you feel these statements are accurate or inacurate?

[Defender]

I think that's true the past 2-3 months but with the new "port security" issue I think they see an opening and are getting some results.

[Deacon]

Finally the gov't is getting somewhere, hopefully they both stay in the middle, that makes life good

[IRoNiK]

i think that is true. both parties seem to be leaning to the middle. I believe it is because its becoming too much of a "risk" to flat out say that one group is completely against a topic. in order to get as many voters as possible, i think they must stay in the center. In my belief, most voters arent completely left or right winged, they tend to have more beliefs on one side, but a few in the middle or opposite side.

[E-Z-B]

No, I see the right moving further to the right and the dems moving to the middle since the country is shifting right.

Examples of Repubs moving right:

1) Gay marriage ban
2) Intelligent Design
3) The looming end of Roe v. Wade
4) Abstinence only education

Example of the Dems moving to the middle:

1) Support for the war
2) Attacks on video game violence
3) Democratic objection to current government spending

[justanotherstayathomead]

they turned left so many times they went right

[Spaz]

I agree with EZB, I don't think things are really moving to the middle (as they're supposed to) things have just shifted to the right since Reagan. It seems to me that centrist ideas are treated as pretty liberal ones, but it's all relative as our left-wing is pretty centrist by European standards.

[PittsburghAfterDark]

Shifted right since Reagan? Hardly. The left has practically embraced communist ideals under the liberal/progressive banner.

Current Communist Goals EXTENSION OF REMARKS OF HON. A. S. HERLONG, JR. OF FLORIDA IN THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES Thursday, January 10, 1963 .

Communist Goals (1963) Congressional Record--Appendix, pp. A34-A35 January 10, 1963

Mr. HERLONG. Mr. Speaker, Mrs. Patricia Nordman of De Land, Fla., is an ardent and articulate opponent of communism, and until recently published the De Land Courier, which she dedicated to the purpose of alerting the public to the dangers of communism in America.

At Mrs. Nordman's request, I include in the RECORD, under unanimous consent, the following "Current Communist Goals," which she identifies as an excerpt from "The Naked Communist," by Cleon Skousen:

[From "The Naked Communist," by Cleon Skousen]

1. U.S. acceptance of coexistence as the only alternative to atomic war.

This was done. No one that lived through the Reagan Presidency can deny this. All in the spirit of detente.

2. U.S. willingness to capitulate in preference to engaging in atomic war.

Fortunately the USSR and Eastern Bloc collapsed. However the same thing is now true if you replace those former adversaries with the current armed struggle against Islamic terrorism and Islamic states seeking atomic arms.

3. Develop the illusion that total disarmament [by] the United States would be a demonstration of moral strength.

This is alive and well in the liberal population.

4. Permit free trade between all nations regardless of Communist affiliation and regardless of whether or not items could be used for war.

China has now received MFN trade satus. The Clinton technology transfers to mainland China add extra credibility to this point.

5. Extension of long-term loans to Russia and Soviet satellites.

It's really tough to summarize this without it's own thread. Many of the former satellites are now NATO members and seeking admission to the EU. However with Russia's admission to the G-8 despite not having the requisite GDP gives them increased stature in the world financial markets they don't otherwise deserve.

6. Provide American aid to all nations regardless of Communist domination.

Humanitarian missions resulting in hoarding of supplies by warlords, dictators and despots to be used as weapons against the citizenry they were intended to help.

7. Grant recognition of Red China. Admission of Red China to the U.N.

It happened in 1971 when they replaced the ROC.

8. Set up East and West Germany as separate states in spite of Khrushchev's promise in 1955 to settle the German question by free elections under supervision of the U.N.

This was done under Kennedy's watch, fortunately the GDR no longer exists. However it was never Gorbachev's goal to re-unite Germany.

9. Prolong the conferences to ban atomic tests because the United States has agreed to suspend tests as long as negotiations are in progress.

This is still in practice. Unfortnately the ban on testing is self-imposed and held in check politically by the American left.

10. Allow all Soviet satellites individual representation in the U.N.

This happened. East Germany was given U.N. status in 1973. Funny how during the era of Vietnam and under LBJ how the movements to give credibility to puppet states took root.

11. Promote the U.N. as the only hope for mankind. If its charter is rewritten, demand that it be set up as a one-world government with its own independent armed forces. (Some Communist leaders believe the world can be taken over as easily by the U.N. as by Moscow. Sometimes these two centers compete with each other as they are now doing in the Congo.)

This is the centerpiece of American progressives hope to reign in the U.S. superiority economically, militarily and politically.

12. Resist any attempt to outlaw the Communist Party.

While legal it's a joke. However the Democratic party has been successfully co-opted in its stead.

13. Do away with all loyalty oaths.

Every single Senator and Representative that passes budgets continuing entitlements has broken their loyalty oath. They are meaningless photo opportunities every 2 and 6 years.

14. Continue giving Russia access to the U.S. Patent Office.

Replace Russia with China.

15. Capture one or both of the political parties in the United States.

Successfully done. The Democrat party has fully capitulated to these ideals and Republican moderates hope to drag the "knuckle dragging" Conservatives right behind them in lockstep.

16. Use technical decisions of the courts to weaken basic American institutions by claiming their activities violate civil rights.

Funny how this was the entire plot of "The Devil's Advocate" and it stemmed from a communist ideal. Now the ACLU and its supporters on the American left are continuing the assault nearly unabted.

17. Get control of the schools. Use them as transmission belts for socialism and current Communist propaganda. Soften the curriculum. Get control of teachers' associations. Put the party line in textbooks.

Wow. Just.... wow. Forget a thread, this one could be a book.

18. Gain control of all student newspapers.

At the collegiate level this has been achieved.

19. Use student riots to foment public protests against programs or organizations which are under Communist attack.

Achieved in the 60's and the spirit is alive and well today.

20. Infiltrate the press. Get control of book-review assignments, editorial writing, policy-making positions.

Done.

21. Gain control of key positions in radio, TV, and motion pictures.

Done.

22. Continue discrediting American culture by degrading all forms of artistic expression. An American Communist cell was told to "eliminate all good sculpture from parks and buildings, substitute shapeless, awkward and meaningless forms."

One thing that has not come to fruition on this list. However if you replace meaningless forms with form meant to outrage the goal has been achieved.

23. Control art critics and directors of art museums. "Our plan is to promote ugliness, repulsive, meaningless art."

Done. Ugly, repulsive art is the de facto standard. Those who criticize just don't "get it".

24. Eliminate all laws governing obscenity by calling them "censorship" and a violation of free speech and free press.

Done.

25. Break down cultural standards of morality by promoting pornography and obscenity in books, magazines, motion pictures, radio, and TV.

Done.

26. Present homosexuality, degeneracy and promiscuity as "normal, natural, healthy."

Done.

27. Infiltrate the churches and replace revealed religion with "social" religion. Discredit the Bible and emphasize the need for intellectual maturity, which does not need a "religious crutch."

Is there any doubt to this statement?

28. Eliminate prayer or any phase of religious expression in the schools on the ground that it violates the principle of "separation of church and state."

Done. BTW, seperation of church and state is not a Constitutional phrase or principle.

29. Discredit the American Constitution by calling it inadequate, old-fashioned, out of step with modern needs, a hindrance to cooperation between nations on a worldwide basis.

Just look at the calls of the left to ignore, frame the Constitution as a "living document" and desire to change the elctoral process as daily evidence that the ideals of the Communist movement are alive and well on the American left.

30. Discredit the American Founding Fathers. Present them as selfish aristocrats who had no concern for the "common man."

Done.

31. Belittle all forms of American culture and discourage the teaching of American history on the ground that it was only a minor part of the "big picture." Give more emphasis to Russian history since the Communists took over.

Done but the more emphaisis part is being switched to native persons, slaves and African culture and a de-emphasis of American and Western Civilization. Obviously portraying the history of the USSR now is a losing issue. Portraying the striaght up evils of America though is very much in vogue.

32. Support any socialist movement to give centralized control over any part of the culture--education, social agencies, welfare programs, mental health clinics, etc.

Continued growth of public education dollars, lack of school choice, NEA giving 95% of their union contributions to Democrats. Welfare is dominated by Democratic politicians and now the call is to centralize control of the health care industry.

33. Eliminate all laws or procedures which interfere with the operation of the Communist apparatus.

Done but communists can't win. Since the Democratic party has been co-opted it operates as the communist apparatus.

34. Eliminate the House Committee on Un-American Activities.

Done.

35. Discredit and eventually dismantle the FBI.

This is, hard to believe, the goal that is seemingly the hardest goal to do. Unless of course Democrats aim to "strengthen" Homeland Security by removing the alphabet agencies and have them operate under one head bureaucrat.

36. Infiltrate and gain control of more unions.

The unions that are not losing membership and near or have collapsed are dominated by leaders that have exercised every socialist and communist point put forth so far.

37. Infiltrate and gain control of big business.

Thank God for capitalism. I know there are "leftist" leaning companies as identified by websites like buyblue.org however capitalist controls are truly maintained by stockholders and investors.

38. Transfer some of the powers of arrest from the police to social agencies. Treat all behavioral problems as psychiatric disorders which no one but psychiatrists can understand [or treat].

Done.

39. Dominate the psychiatric profession and use mental health laws as a means of gaining coercive control over those who oppose Communist goals.

This is happening not so much in the psychiatric profession as in education.

40. Discredit the family as an institution. Encourage promiscuity and easy divorce.

Done.

41. Emphasize the need to raise children away from the negative influence of parents. Attribute prejudices, mental blocks and retarding of children to suppressive influence of parents.

Well in progress. Subject is book worthy. No, I don't mean "It Takes a Village".

42. Create the impression that violence and insurrection are legitimate aspects of the American tradition; that students and special-interest groups should rise up and use ["]united force["] to solve economic, political or social problems.

Done.

43. Overthrow all colonial governments before native populations are ready for self-government.

The progressive solution to Iraq. Run and let the American birthed Republic collapse.

44. Internationalize the Panama Canal.

Jimmy Carter, 1978.

45. Repeal the Connally reservation so the United States cannot prevent the World Court from seizing jurisdiction [over domestic problems. Give the World Court jurisdiction] over nations and individuals alike.

Another thing the progressives would love to do. Make the U.S. military accountable to a world body.

[tim]

This is a lame duck season for them, they just want to keep alive till next time around.

No way anything will get done, this is why they are moving towards the middle more. The don't want to lose any votes, and my guess is they will keep doing that for some time.

[E-Z-B]

I love how Rick Santorum (senator from PA) is suddenly looking moderate. Once again, we see "Election Year Rick".

This coming from a guy who says Boston citizens are to blame for the Catholic Priest sex abuse.

[Abraham]

i think that is true. both parties seem to be leaning to the middle. I believe it is because its becoming too much of a "risk" to flat out say that one group is completely against a topic. in order to get as many voters as possible, i think they must stay in the center. In my belief, most voters arent completely left or right winged, they tend to have more beliefs on one side, but a few in the middle or opposite side.


i agree with your observation. it is true polarization in politics is no longer valid in practice except in theory.

[eggs]

i agree with your observation. it is true polarization in politics is no longer valid in practice except in theory.

just like democracy as a whole... works on paper with out red tape
but add capitalism and boom you have red tape all over your face.

[sbannon]

It's election tactics, nothing else. Dems know that the far left voters won't go Republican and Republicans know the far right won't vote Democrat, so candidates pander to the middle ground voters.

Sen. Santorum(R. PA) was mentioned earlier, he's a grand example of this and being from my state I know his style well. This guy has equated gays with bestiality in the past, yet come election time his views slide back to center--to reflect his 'big tent' ideology that welcomes voters of all lifestyles as 'good Americans'--until the election is over that is.

Clinton is a mirrored story from the other side. Whether or not she runs for the White House in '08 she'll be a major party player, so already her public rhetoric has begun to cool and shift to center as she positions herself for whatever role she'll be in.

It's ultimately a disservice to all of us that our system works this way, but sadly a majority of voters won't take the time to learn about candidates until closer to election day so they only see and hear the centralized stumping, so the tactic works.

[Labrocca]

WOW....PAD I didn't read your post before. That's really something else. Seriously each of those numbers deserves it's own topic to argue.

Just incredible. I have to find some time to post a more detailed response to most of that.

[AlonzoMourning23]

PAD's list was from an opponent of communism. Basically, the things he saw as dangerous, and had any minimal link with how he percieved communism, was included.

For example, discourage family and encourage promiscuity is an example of something no american communist, republican, democrat etc. would suggest. Some other things, like having the u.n. take over the world, are barely present even in american communism in the 60's.

And the inclusion of "present homosexuality as normal" also suggests that this is how he percieves the threat. He's picking out what he fears about them, and what he fears about cultural evolution.

Also, just like any system, no political ideology is 100% bad. Yes, communists wanted people to be liberated from colonialism, something the congressman opposed. Yet, today, no one would think that's a bad thing. Just because a similarity exists in some areas doesn't mean the values (in this case liberal) are bad. And some things, gaining ideological influence over organizations, are just things that all political groups want to spread what they view as the truth.

Basically, this is not a list created by communists. It's a list of the threat he sees posed by communism and liberalism. A communist in the 1963 would not have agreed with many things on the list.