Boo-Hoo The Truth Hurts

[Viper2]

http://www.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2007/1/18/141101.shtml?s=al&promo_code=2C46-1

Thursday, Jan. 18, 2007 2:08 p.m. EST

Muslims Upset Over '24' Portrayal

Two years ago, Muslim groups protested when the plot of the hit Fox drama '24' cast Islamic terrorists as the villains who launched a stolen nuclear missile in an attack on America.

Now, after a one-year respite during which Russian separatists played the bad guys on the critically acclaimed series, Muslims are back in the evil spotlight. Unlike last time, when agent Jack Bauer saved the day, the terrorists this time have already succeeded in detonating a nuclear bomb in a Los Angeles suburb.

Being portrayed again as the heartless wrongdoers has drawn renewed protests from Muslim groups, including one that had a meeting with Fox executives two years ago over the issue.

"The overwhelming impression you get is fear and hatred for Muslims," said Rabiah Ahmed, a spokeswoman for the Washington-based Council on American-Islamic Relations. She said Thursday she was distressed by this season's premiere. "After watching that show, I was afraid to go to the grocery store because I wasn't sure the person next to me would be able to differentiate between fiction and reality."

She said the group had a conference call Wednesday with Fox executives to protest the current plot line and request more positive portrayals of Muslims on the show, but was not promised anything.

After a January 2005 meeting with CAIR, Fox aired a commercial in which the show's star, Kiefer Sutherland, urged viewers to keep in mind that the show's villains are not representative of all Muslims.

In a written statement issued late Wednesday night, the network said it has not singled out any ethnic or religious group for blame in creating its characters.

"24 is a heightened drama about anti-terrorism," the statement read. "After five seasons, the audience clearly understands this, and realizes that any individual, family, or group (ethnic or otherwise) that engages in violence is not meant to be typical.

"Over the past several seasons, the villains have included shadowy Anglo businessmen, Baltic Europeans, Germans, Russians, Islamic fundamentalists, and even the (Anglo-American) president of the United States," the network said. "The show has made a concerted effort to show ethnic, religious and political groups as multidimensional, and political issues are debated from multiple viewpoints."

The current season began with Muslim terrorists waging an 11-week campaign of suicide bombings across America, culminating in the detonation of a suitcase-sized nuclear bomb in Valencia, Calif., about 26 miles north of Los Angeles. Estimated death toll: 12,000.

Watching the show's characters talk about detonating a nuclear weapon a few blocks from where she works unnerved Sireen Sawaf, an official with the Los Angeles-based Muslim Public Affairs Council, and a self-described "huge '24' fan."

"It's a great show, and I do realize it's a multidimensional show that portrays extreme situations," she said. "They have gone out of their way to have non-Muslim terror cells.

"But I'm concerned about the image it ingrains in the minds of the American public and the American government, particularly when you have anti-Muslim statements spewing from the mouths of government officials."

Sohail Mohammed, a New Jersey immigration lawyer who represented scores of detainees caught up in the post Sept. 11, 2001 dragnet, watched the episode depicting the nuclear attack with an Associated Press reporter.

"I was shocked," he said. "Somewhere, some lunatic out there watching this will do something to an innocent American Muslim because he believes what he saw on TV."

Engy Abdelkader, a member of the American Arab Anti-Discrimination Committee from Howell, N.J., launched a campaign Wednesday to encourage Muslims offended by the program to complain to Fox.

"I found the portrayal of American Muslims to be pretty horrendous," she said. "It was denigrating from beginning to end. This is one of the most popular programs on television today. It's pretty distressing."

Concerns about Muslims' civil rights, detention of terror suspects in Guantanamo-like holding centers, and stereotyping are given vastly expanded treatment on '24' this year. In one exchange, the show depicts the president's national security adviser challenging the White House chief of staff over the detention of Muslims without criminal charges.

"Right now the American Muslim community is our greatest asset," the security adviser says. "They have provided law enforcement with hundreds of tips, and not a single member of that community has been implicated in these attacks."

"So far," the chief of staff responds.

© 2007 Associated Press.

Question - If they're so damned worried about their "reputation", then why don't the "moderates" band together and present a united position condemning the radicals, and begin turning those in their communities who they "know" are planning attacks and/or are sleepers awaiting instructions. ??????????

Not all Muslims are terrorists, however, since 9/11 all terrorists are Muslim.

[Elrathin]

Not all Muslims are terrorists, however, since 9/11 all terrorists are Muslim.


Yeah those terrorists in South America and Africa are all Muslim :rolleyes:

[Alonzo]

It seems that most muslims I see on tv and movies are terrorists. Guess that means that most muslims are terrorist. That's how tv portrays it, and you say tv is the truth.

Sometimes I wish they'd start making all Irish people on tv drunks who beat up their wives every night.

Of course, when a show puts muslims in a non terrorist role (like little mosque on the prairie), many denounce it.

[Labrocca]

Too bad I dislike the show entirely. 9/11 was reality and Muslims imho got off pretty easy. I don't think over a TV show muslims should be afraid. They should be afraid of the reality that radical muslims are tainting their supposedly peaceful religion. Funny they protest a show but barely hear a peep when a bomb goes off in Israel.

[Alonzo]

I hear about as much from muslims when a bomb goes off in israel as I do from jews when a missile explodes on a crowded palestinian street. Yet if one were to go around condemning jews they'd be labeled an anti-semite.

Though I'm not sure what rational reason there is to claim a group got off lightly for an event they played absolutely no role in.

[Labrocca]

I don't see Jews protesting shows...oh wait...I take that back.

http://www.catholicleague.org/research/lapin.htm

hehe...well F them all I tell you.

[Viper2]

Not all Muslims are terrorists, however, since 9/11 all terrorists are Muslim.


Yeah those terrorists in South America and Africa are all Muslim :rolleyes:


Cute reply - however, who do you see being reported in the daily newspapers and broadcasts ?????

Perhaps any of these:

The Salafist Group for CallÂ*Â*and Combat Europe / Africa / Middle EastÂ*Â* Islamic Extremists

Shining Path National Liberation Army Columbia - Communist

Revolutionary Armed ForcesÂ*Â*of Columbia (FARC) Columbia - CommunistÂ*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*

(Sendero Luminoso) Peru - Xenophobic Revolutionary

United Self-Defense Forces / Group of Colombia - Colombia Nationalistic

Tupac Amaru Revolutionary Movement Peru - Communist

Lord's Resistance Army (LRA)Â*Â*Uganda

Al-lttihad al-Islami (AIAI)Â*Â*Â*Â*Somalia

Allied Democratic ForcesÂ*Â* Uganda

Army for the Liberation of RwandaÂ*Â*Â*Â*
Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*
Revolutionary United Front (RUF)Â*Â* Sierra Leone

The Tunisian Combatant Group (TCG)Â*Â* Tunisia

Tupac Amaru Revolutionary Movement (MRTA)Â*Â* Peru

Or is it the Islamic terrorists with ties to Al Qaeda ?????

Oh, and by the way - who was it that just got their asses kicked out of Ethiopia ?????

[Viper2]

It seems that most muslims I see on tv and movies are terrorists. Guess that means that most muslims are terrorist. That's how tv portrays it, and you say tv is the truth.

Sometimes I wish they'd start making all Irish people on tv drunks who beat up their wives every night.

Of course, when a show puts muslims in a non terrorist role (like little mosque on the prairie), many denounce it.


Where have I stated that TV is the truth ?? Please be so kind as to refresh my memory.

[Viper2]

Too bad I dislike the show entirely.Â*Â*9/11 was reality and Muslims imho got off pretty easy.Â*Â*I don't think over a TV show muslims should be afraid. They should be afraid of the reality that radical muslims are tainting their supposedly peaceful religion.Â*Â*Funny they protest a show but barely hear a peep when a bomb goes off in Israel.


I happen to enjoy 24, but that's me (and my family).

They protest cartoons, and call for the Pope's assassination over a comment which happens to be the truth. They preach & teach hatred to their children grooming them for suicide, wantonly kill their own if they side with the West - issue Jihads and Farwas against America & Israel - they run rampant burning and destroying - and this is the religion of peace ?????

[Alonzo]

"Boo-Hoo the truth hurts"

You claim the way they're being portrayed on tv is true.

Cute reply - however, who do you see being reported in the daily newspapers and broadcasts ?????


Thank you for pointing out the media bias. Though you did forget the christian terrorist groups in northern india who have carried out bombings which killed civilians, and secular groups like ETA.

Honestly, the fact that groups like the Lord's Resistance Army are never labeled as christian terrorists isn't suprising. They're rarely even called terrorists, even though they're more ruthless and inflict more harm on the population than even the likes of the taliban. And, just like such groups, their goal is a religious state, except their state would be a christian state ruled by the 10 commanders.

They protest cartoons, and call for the Pope's assassination over a comment which happens to be the truth. They preach & teach hatred to their children grooming them for suicide, wantonly kill their own if they side with the West - issue Jihads and Farwas against America & Israel - they run rampant burning and destroying - and this is the religion of peace ?????

Why don't you look at places like Nigeria, where you have 2 powerful religions, both with similar social conditions in place. Christians and muslims both give as good as they get there.

I also have never met a muslim who fits your description, and I've met many.

[Viper2]

I hear about as much from muslims when a bomb goes off in israel as I do from jews when a missile explodes on a crowded palestinian street. Yet if one were to go around condemning jews they'd be labeled an anti-semite.


Well, I don't condemn Israel outright, however, I do hold them accountable for some of their actions which have only exerbaciated the situation. However, if Arafat had accepted the agreement at Camp David II - IMHO, Palestine & Israel would have had defined nation-states, and much of the killing would have not happened.

Question - when was the last time the UN (Kofi Annan) condemned the Palestinian suicide-bombers outright like he constantly condemns Israel for measured responses ???

[Viper2]

Now, there have been a number of comments - however, no one has addressed the question I posed starting this thread:


Question - If they're so damned worried about their "reputation", then why don't the "moderates" band together and present a united position condemning the radicals, and begin turning those in their communities who they "know" are planning attacks and/or are sleepers awaiting instructions. ??????????

[Alonzo]

Camp David II did not give the palestinians a continuous state though. You can argue about whether arafat should have continued the discussions (he should have in my opinion), but the offer on the table was not conducive to a viable state. One significant aspect of it was that it split the west bank, giving Israel control of the divide and the right to close the crossing. There were other issues with israel control and non continuous territory. The final deal offered looked nice as a percentage, but was filled with holes.

United Nations Secretary-General Kofi Annan strongly condemned today's suicide bombing in Tel Aviv and called on the Palestinian Authority to “take a clear public stand against such unjustifiable acts of terrorism.�


http://www.un.org/apps/news/story.asp?NewsID=18159&Cr=middle&Cr1=east

Took 2 seconds to find that. I simply typed "annan terrorism palestinian" and it was the first item google brought up.

[Alonzo]

Now, there have been a number of comments - however, no one has addressed the question I posed starting this thread:


Question - If they're so damned worried about their "reputation", then why don't the "moderates" band together and present a united position condemning the radicals, and begin turning those in their communities who they "know" are planning attacks and/or are sleepers awaiting instructions. ??????????


First, like christianity, there is not such thing as unified islam.

But, second, they routinely denounce terrorism. Here's a bunch of denouncements I dug up a couple years ago (this is probably the 3 or 4th time on this site alone that I've posted them). The links should all still be working, they were a few months ago anyway:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4191015.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/engla...657153.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/3646412.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/3586565.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/1554177.stm
http://www.islam-online.net/English/News...cle1.shtml
http://muslim-canada.org/news09112001.html
http://www.muslimnews.co.uk/news/news.php?article=1062
http://www.islamicity.com/articles/Artic...AM0109-335
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3939799.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/3586703.stm
http://www.risu.org.ua/eng/news/article;3133/
http://english.aljazeera.net/english/404...3FE9D535F}
http://www.muslimnews.co.uk/news/news.php?article=1080
http://www.adcnj.us/muslim-denounce-terror-ad.htm
http://www.islamfortoday.com/america05.htm
http://www.cmcla.org/press_r/condem_attacks.htm
http://www.proislam.com/articles_repudiate%20hate.htm
http://www.rediff.com/news/2003/aug/27blast3.htm
http://www.iio.org/article.php?story=20040515081444334
http://www.glocaleye.org/binladen.htm

Cair also assembled a large amount of condemnations for 9/11: http://www.cair.com/html/911statements.html

[Viper2]

alonzomourning23:

First, I'm in the midst of moving - so don't think that I'm ignoring your responses.

Let's take your last two responses in order:

Camp David II did not give the palestinians a continuous state though. You can argue about whether arafat should have continued the discussions (he should have in my opinion), but the offer on the table was not conducive to a viable state. One significant aspect of it was that it split the west bank, giving Israel control of the divide and the right to close the crossing. There were other issues with israel control and non continuous territory. The final deal offered looked nice as a percentage, but was filled with holes.

CDII wasn't perfect for both parties involved - however, Arafat could have gone home with approximately 95% of what he wanted, and that would have at least been a start to further negotiations.

But, that posed two problems for him - 1: He would have had to cease his terrorist activities and 2: he would have had to use the billions of USD being funded him for the benefit of the Palestinian people, and that would have meant that he could no loger fund his terrorist activities, and at the same time continue to transfer countless millions into his Swiss bank accounts.

First, like christianity, there is not such thing as unified islam.

Meaning no disrespect to you - I am sick and tired of hearing this cop-out reply. Christianity may have many different sects, however, check the start of the two, and trace it down through history (and don't try to throw up the Crusades) and you will observe a mark difference in the ideologies as well as practices.

But, second, they routinely denounce terrorism. Here's a bunch of denouncements I dug up a couple years ago (this is probably the 3 or 4th time on this site alone that I've posted them). The links should all still be working, they were a few months ago anyway:

Thank you for providing these numerous sources - however, I was not referring to sporatic instances - what I meant was a UNIFIED, CONCENTRATED & OUTSPOKEN effort - like taking out TV time on the major channels, and full page articles in the major newspapers and magazines 1: outright condemming the terrorist activities worldwide, and 2: signed by say hundreds of Mullahs, Clerics and Imams nationwide.

As an example, consider the following, which I personally feel is an excellent rebuke of Muslims by a Muslim - of which I will only post a portion:

http://www.ijtihad.org/memo.htm

A Memo to American Muslims
M. A. Muqtedar Khan

In the name of Allah, the most Benevolent and the Most Merciful. May this memo find you in the shade of Islam enjoying the mercy, the protection and the grace of Allah.

I am writing this memo to you all with the explicit purpose of inviting you to lead the American Muslim community in soul searching, reflection and reassessment.

What happened on September 11th in New York and Washington DC will forever remain a horrible scar on the history of Islam and humanity. No matter how much we condemn it, and point to the Quran and the Sunnah to argue that Islam forbids the killing of innocent people, the fact remains that the perpetrators of this crime against humanity have indicated that their actions are sanctioned by Islamic values.

The fact that even now several Muslim scholars and thousands of Muslims defend the accused is indicative that not all Muslims believe that the attacks are unIslamic. This is truly sad.

While we loudly and consistently condemn Israel for its ill treatment of Palestinians we are silent when Muslim regimes abuse the rights of Muslims and slaughter thousands of them. Remember Saddam and his use of chemical weapons against Muslims (Kurds)?. Remember Pakistani army’s excesses against Muslims (Bengalis)?. Remember the Mujahideen of Afghanistan and their mutual slaughter? Have we ever condemned them for their excesses? Have we demanded international intervention or retribution against them? Do you know how the Saudis treat their minority Shiis? Have we protested the violation of their rights? But we all are eager to condemn Israel; not because we care for rights and lives of the Palestinians, we don’t. We condemn Israel because we hate “them".

Muslims love to live in the US but also love to hate it. Many openly claim that the US is a terrorist state but they continue to live in it.

Their decision to live here is testimony that they would rather live here than anywhere else. As an Indian Muslim, I know for sure that nowhere on earth, including India, will I get the same sense of dignity and respect that I have received in the US. No Muslim country will treat me as well as the US has. If what happened on September 11th had happened in India, the biggest democracy, thousands of Muslims would have been slaughtered in riots on mere suspicion and there would be another slaughter after confirmation. But in the US, bigotry and xenophobia has been kept in check by media and leaders. In many places hundreds of Americans have gathered around Islamic centers in symbolic gestures of protection and embrace of American Muslims. In many cities Christian congregations have started wearing hijab to identify with fellow Muslim women. In patience and in tolerance ordinary Americans have demonstrated their extraordinary virtues.

Now, after taking the time to read the entire letter - consider if something like this were to appear in all major media outlets say once a week for 6 months, and it was signed by all the Mullahs, Clerics and Imams in the US, that would be approximately 2000 to 3000 signatures or even more.

That would IMHO, be effective and would solidify the Muslims in America to America and Americans - and would prove that they as a unified body condemn Islamic terrorism - AND ACTUALLY WANT PEACE.

Also, consider that in many Muslim communities all over America there are those who would be considered "sleepers", and/or those who are perhaps planning something like the "Handgrenade attack" by a Chicago Muslim that was thwartered - Muslims living in their communities know what is going on - so if in fact they are against Islamic terrorism then why not inform the authorities about those who are planning them ?????????? Consider the Lackawana 6, who were turned in by a Muslim.

[Alonzo]

CDII wasn't perfect for both parties involved - however, Arafat could have gone home with approximately 95% of what he wanted, and that would have at least been a start to further negotiations.

You don't even know what was being discussed. It was not a temporary solution being discussed, it was a final solution to the conflict, and the discussion on the permanent boundaries of israel and palestine. You can't form a viable state when another state controlls roadways intersecting your state, leaving them capable of shutting down movement if they desire.

Meaning no disrespect to you - I am sick and tired of hearing this cop-out reply. Christianity may have many different sects, however, check the start of the two, and trace it down through history (and don't try to throw up the Crusades) and you will observe a mark difference in the ideologies as well as practices.

Throughout history islam has been more tolerant of religious minorities. The persecution of jews and christians in muslim countries was historically lower than the persecution of jews and muslims in christian countries. Through history islam also granted woman more rights than christianity. In this debate, history is not kind to christians until they started adopting a more secular outlook during the enlightenment. At that point the christian worlds move towards secularism, and increasing military dominance (significant military threat and conquest by outside armies tends to foster conservatism and looking towards the past) over the muslim world, played key roles in why the christian world pulled ahead of muslim lands in these areas.

So yes, there were marked differences in the societies. And if you were a jew in the 14th century you'd be quite foolish to choose a christian nation over a muslim one for the most part. Though, depending on which christian nation you chose, you may not have long to regret it.

Now, after taking the time to read the entire letter - consider if something like this were to appear in all major media outlets say once a week for 6 months, and it was signed by all the Mullahs, Clerics and Imams in the US, that would be approximately 2000 to 3000 signatures or even more.

If I was a muslim I wouldn't sign it. It's incorrect, particularly the suggestions that muslims have not shown concern over palestinians themselves, did not condemn saddam (in fact the more radical the muslim the more likely they were to have opposed saddam before the second iraq war), and the insinuation that there has been widespread support for muslims in this country, even from churches.

There has been support, in some locations more than others, but not on the level suggested. Even in the supposedly liberal boston area, I know hindu's (they are treated as muslim) who have harrassed at work, insulted in schools, and one was even beaten up. I was actually with one friend who's hindu and we were watching his younger cousin (she was about 13) going home to chicago by herself on a plane. She went through the security point at the airport and she was pulled aside to be "randomly" searched. Now my father has actually set off the alarms before and they did everything possible not to search him. At one point they took his lighter out of his carry on luggage and told him he had to carry it on in his pocket instead. But, anyway, not only did she get searched, security kicked me and my friend out of a PUBLIC area because we were watching her to make sure nothing happened. The guard also refused to make eye contact with him.

He also almost got refused entry into the u.s. at the u.s. canadian border once because he didn't have his passport or birth certificate with him. It took the guard half an hour to let him go. Now I've passed through the same border about 30 times, only with a drivers license and registration, and neither a birth certificate or passport was required at the time. Nothing was ever said to me. And it has nothing to do with looking foreign. A vietnamese friend (with an accent, something my hindu friend did not have) has gone through the border and also has never had any difficulty. Once, while he was a passenger in my car, he wasn't even asked for any ID at all.

So the fact that the u.s. has been generally supportive of muslims is something I don't buy.

But muslims have repeatedly denounced terrorism. Yes it's a problem that it doesn't get press. But you can't fault them when they routinely make denouncements for something they aren't even involved in and shouldn't have to make any statement against to begin with. And when it is picked up by the media the majority of americans dismiss it anyway.

Also, consider that in many Muslim communities all over America there are those who would be considered "sleepers", and/or those who are perhaps planning something like the "Handgrenade attack" by a Chicago Muslim that was thwartered - Muslims living in their communities know what is going on - so if in fact they are against Islamic terrorism then why not inform the authorities about those who are planning them ??????????

This is bullshit, and a good example of what is wrong with most americans. I'm not denying there are sleeper cells, but they are very few. And the suggestion that these potential terrorists are actually known by the mainstream muslim community would be, if it wasn't so sad and dangerous, laughable. There's no evidence of that.

I used to live in toronto and I was surrounded by muslims. I even attended a few events organized by muslims, including one which was hosting a professor of religion (forget what his exact area was), who was also an imam, who was a professor at baghdad university in Iraq and he held a 3 hour lecture on Shiite religious beliefs. My first experience in my first ever apartment was walking into the lobby and seeing 5 muslim men in religious attire leaving the elevator. I knew many muslims. One very liberal female muslim I knew (who helped run a pro immigration group) had a tendency to walk around the clubs office in a sports bra. At the same time I knew women who wouldn't be caught dead without their hijab in the presence of a man. There were also multiple woman on campus who wore a burqa, though I never talked to any of them directly.

I knew muslims who supported same sex marriage, and I knew muslims who denounced it as an abomination. The range and diversity of muslim opinion is the same as with christians. And you are in no more danger from having a muslim neighbor than you are having a christian one.

[piratemonkey]

First, I'm in the midst of moving - so don't think that I'm ignoring your responses.

Family's finally putting you in a home, eh, Viper?Â*Â*;)


First, like christianity, there is not such thing as unified islam.

Meaning no disrespect to you - I am sick and tired of hearing this cop-out reply. Christianity may have many different sects, however, check the start of the two, and trace it down through history (and don't try to throw up the Crusades) and you will observe a mark difference in the ideologies as well as practices.

But each sect has almost always had a leader, or at least a unified leadership council.

No such thing exists in many Islamic sects, including some of the biggest.Â*Â*Each imam is his own leader of his own small group.Â*Â*Sure, some imams have grouped together, but the groups usually have no control over individual imams.

That's a huge difference logistically and practically from Christianity, which has been much more hierarchical, historically.