Do you Support An Independent Kurdistan in North Iraq

[Bumin Khan]

Lets see the public opinion and debate.

http://www.worldstatesmen.org/iraqiKurdistan.gif

[michaelr]

I support an independent Iraq.

We should not be in the business of telling countries where they should draw their borders. If Iraq becomes independent from the US, and they decide on their own accord to divide their country or not, then we should support that decision. I am afraid that until Iraq becomes dependent, that all decisions made will at least appear to have been made in the US, and that will undermine the government there.

[manders!]

I support an independent Iraq.

We should not be in the business of telling countries where they should draw their borders. If Iraq becomes independent from the US, and they decide on their own accord to divide their country or not, then we should support that decision. I am afraid that until Iraq becomes dependent, that all decisions made will at least appear to have been made in the US, and that will undermine the government there.

I am pretty much with michael on this. What do the Iraqi people want? And can it be reached amicably? Meaning.... they won't need additional American servicemen to police them.

[Angr]

I would support it, but I wouldn't support any outside intervention to establish it.

[Sulayman]

Yes, without reservation as long as it consists of the Kurdish areas of Northern Iraq.

[Milton Bradley]

I'm in agreement with the opinions voiced thus far.

[jafar00]

Yes, without reservation as long as it consists of the Kurdish areas of Northern Iraq.

What about the "kurdish" portions of Iran and Turkey? You also must remember that this part of Iraq is very rich in Oil deposits. It won't be given up without a fight.

[Sulayman]

Just the Kurdish areas of Iraq. Yes, it is oil rich and when the US leaves I fully expect the Kurdish Army to expell the Iraqis from Mosul and take control of the entire are of Kurdistan inside Iraq. I'll be pulling for Kurdistan.

[Bumin Khan]

Just the Kurdish areas of Iraq. Yes, it is oil rich and when the US leaves I fully expect the Kurdish Army to expell the Iraqis from Mosul and take control of the entire are of Kurdistan inside Iraq. I'll be pulling for Kurdistan.

Why don't you take in consideration " Turkomans " in Iraq, maybe Turkey will take control some parts of North Iraq.

Especially Kirkuk and Tal Afar :)

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/41490000/gif/_41490132_iraq_mosul_tal_map203.gif

Tal Afar is a Turkoman(Turkmen) city in North Iraq, its population is 99% occurs with Turkomans
( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tal_Afar )

Turkoman(Turkmen) = Iraqi Turk

http://www.stratfor.com/files/mmf/7/a/7aa1a12c1ae17a3d8185657fa967886749c147e3.jpg


Historically; Arbil, Kirkuk and Mosol belongs to Turkey.

We lost there in World War I.

Turkish states in North Iraq

1. Great Seljuks (1055-1157) 102 Years
2. Iraq Seljuks (1118-1194) 76 Years
3. Mosul Atabegs (1127-1233) 106 Years
4. Kipcaks (1130-1140) 10 Years
5. Erbil Atabegs (1144-1209) 65 Years
6. İlhanli (1258-1344) 86 Years
7. Celayirlilar (1339-1410) 71 Years
8. Kara koyunlu (1411-1470 ) 59 Years
9. Ak koyunlu (1470-1508 ) 38 Years
10. Ottoman Empire (1534-1918 ) 384 Years
11. Turkey (1918-1925) 7 years (Under British occupy) (Turkish time certainly ended in 1925 Seyh Said Rebel, because Turkey was preparing a war against to England, so England provocated a Kurdish rebel which lasted more than 7 months, Turkey had to accept Kirkuk out of country even its majority of Turkish population,
it damaged Turkish army more than Turkish Independence War)


England created stupid Iraq, as a pupet against to Turkey

[Truth_and_Power]

Who can blame them for not wanting to be a part of that sunni/shiite mess?

However they had better get their act together with respect to the PKK. Turkey is an established country that seems to have its act together. They will probably tear apart Kurdistan before it gets off the ground if provoked.

[Sulayman]

TurkicBrat, Turkey ceded its rights to these areas in 1922. She has no standing in what would be Kurdish/Iraqi situation.

[Bumin Khan]

TurkicBrat, Turkey ceded its rights to these areas in 1922. She has no standing in what would be Kurdish/Iraqi situation.

First of all, Turkey is not she, he is he :D

We can always interfere in Iraq's domestic policy due to three reasons.

- 2 millions Turkomen population in North Iraq (If they oppress Turkomens this gives right to take back there, especially Turkish city Tal Afar)

- PKK terror camps/in North Iraq mountain (that give us right to invade there)

- Turkey gives his water to Iraqis, If we stop it, they die :) therefore, they have to accept our conditions.

They can't drink petrol as water :)

and you are wrong :thumbsup:

We didn't give up our rights in 1922.

Search Misak-i Milli on google :)

[Sulayman]

First of all, Turkey is not she, he is he :D

We can always interfere in Iraq's domestic policy due to three reasons.

- 2 millions Turkomen population in North Iraq (If they oppress Turkomens this gives right to take back there)

- PKK terror camps/in North Iraq mountain (that give us right to invade there)

- Turkey gives his water to Iraqis, If we stop it, they die :) therefore, they have to accept our conditions.

They can't drink petrol as water :)

and you are wrong :thumbsup:

We didn't give up our rights in 1922.

Search Misak-i Milli on google :)


Misak-i Milli has no force. No one outside of Ottoman dreamers recognizes it. You lost the war and you lost your empire. That's the end of that story.
Turkey has no rights in Iraq that anyone is bound to respect.

Now as far as an independent Kurdistan made up of the Kurdish areas of Iraq, yes, I support that. Turkey will have to try to get along with Kurdistan and Kurdistan will have to not support Kurdish seperatists in Turkey and Iran.

[Bumin Khan]

Misak-i Milli has no force. No one outside of Ottoman dreamers recognizes it. You lost the war and you lost your empire. That's the end of that story.
Turkey has no rights in Iraq that anyone is bound to respect.

Now as far as an independent Kurdistan made up of the Kurdish areas of Iraq, yes, I support that. Turkey will have to try to get along with Kurdistan and Kurdistan will have to not support Kurdish seperatists in Turkey and Iran.


Turkey had accepted " Iraq " in the region in treaty of Lausanne by giving up his Misak-i Milli condition. We didn't agree about Kurdistan in Lausanne and that will abolish our agreements with England related to North Iraq. Therefore, we will put Misak-i Milli on the agenda again.



If you create there a Kurdistan state, we will not recognize it.

If Isreal attacks Palestine due to terrorist groups by comparison Turkey can do due to PKK :)

And, If we make a military operation, you can't do anything.

and the Kurds have no right to create an independent kurdistan state also Iraqi Arabs will not want it. Because Kirkuk petrols belong to all Iraqis... If they create, and we don't occupy, we will stop giving water. ;)


http://news.bbc.co.uk/nol/shared/spl/hi/middle_east/03/v3_iraq_key_maps/img/maps/north_iraq_355map.gif

Do you see the rivers ?

One of them comes from Iran but its birth place is in Turkey too :)

And an unrecognized state is no for us, we don't give our water to nonexistent.

DESERTS HAHAHAHA :)

[Sulayman]

No one is going to force Turkey recognize Kuristan if such a state should come into existence.

Turkey has no right to dictate to Kurds in Iraq.

Turkey has no rights in Iraq.

The UN will almost certainly recognize a Kurdish state if it comes about.

When that happens Turkey will have to try and exist in peace with Kurdistan.

The US does have options that with regard to Turkish aggression against Kurdistan. Many options in fact. One is to place her army between you and the Kurds. Turkish revanchism is not going to succeed.

[Bumin Khan]

No one is going to force Turkey recognize Kuristan if such a state should come into existence.

Turkey has no right to dictate to Kurds in Iraq.

Turkey has no rights in Iraq.

The UN will almost certainly recognize a Kurdish state if it comes about.

When that happens Turkey will have to try and exist in peace with Kurdistan.

The US does have options that with regard to Turkish aggression against Kurdistan. Many options in fact. One is to place her army between you and the Kurds. Turkish revanchism is not going to succeed.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iu_FTRz-JQY&feature=related

Kurds support PKK terrorist organization so we have always right to occupy North Iraq.

so-called kurdistan leader Barzani did nothing up to today. We can't wait anymore.

What will you do ? Bombing Ankara ?

Who cares UN which ruled by United States

[Sulayman]

I don't think many people in Turkey would support your silly ideas of Ottoman supremacy.

I have no more time for you.

[Bumin Khan]

I don't think many people in Turkey would support your silly ideas of Ottoman supremacy.

I have no more time for you.

Why do you overexert to not understand the issue ?

What the fuck is USA doing in Afghanistan ?

against to Islamics terrorist dogs ? yeah ? Also Turkish troops help you to protect your ass there due to we are NATO ally.

If you have a right to occupy a country due to terrorist groups like Afghanistan.

We can also occupy North Iraq because of PKK camps are there and terrorists are supported by kurds

I expect you to same understanding about PKK terror

[jafar00]

I don't think many people in Turkey would support your silly ideas of Ottoman supremacy.

I have no more time for you.

Turkey has the right to protect itself from Kurdish terrorism as do the Iranians and they shouldn't let the fact that the US supports the PKK stop them from wiping out the PKK.

[PatrickHenry]

I favor local self determination and freedom of association without regard to present governments


Turkey is a shit country just like Iraq and Israel and Syria and Iran.

All shit countries with horrible human rights abuses

And those who want to make a nation based upon common heritage language and culture should have the right to do so...as long as they are fiercely protective of the rights of minorities. :-)

[jafar00]

And those who want to make a nation based upon common heritage language and culture should have the right to do so...as long as they are fiercely protective of the rights of minorities. :-)

Oh great. Myself and a bunch of other Aussie expats are off to claim Maui. Hope you don't mind. We like the surfing. Don't worry. We will make the visa for Americans cheap :D

[Bumin Khan]

And those who want to make a nation based upon common heritage language and culture should have the right to do so...as long as they are fiercely protective of the rights of minorities. :-)

Doesn't Turkey give right to Kurdish minority to speak their own language and doesn't Turkey allow their cultural activities ? :dizzy:

[Bumin Khan]

Blast kills six Turkish soldiers, army strikes PKK hideouts in North Iraq

The blast occurred at 11:40 p.m. (GMT 20:40) on Wednesday when the soldiers' military vehicle struck a remotely controlled landmine on a road in the Cukurca district of the southeastern province of Hakkari, the Turkish military said in a statement posted on its website.

Eight Turkish soldiers, one of them in serious condition, were also injured in the blast, Hakkari Governor Muammer Turker said.

Turkish troops, backed by helicopters, launched an offensive near the Iraqi border against PKK terrorists after the blast, news agencies said.

It was the heaviest toll suffered by Turkish soldiers since a bomb explosion killed nine soldiers at the end of April.

The Turkish warplanes struck PKK targets in the Zap and Avasin-Basian regions in northern Iraq, the army said in a later statement.

It added all planes returned to their bases safely and described the operation as "effective."

The General Staff said jets only targeted the terrorist organization, PKK, and paid the utmost attention not to harm civilians.

Turkish President Abdullah Gul told reporters that using landmines is the dirtiest type of terror and called for the widespread condemnation of terror.


"Turkey is in an all-out fight against terrorism," he said.

President Gul also said this terrorist attack, staged at a time when all parties had shown the good will to solve the problems, is the biggest obstacle against raising the standards of society in Turkey.

The PKK, which launches cross-border attacks on Turkey from bases in northern Iraq and frequently uses remote-control landmines to target the country's security forces, is listed as a terrorist group by Turkey and much of the international community, including the EU and the United States.

http://www.hurriyet.com.tr/english/domestic/11742889.asp?gid=244



Wooow, 5 people support PKK terror organization in the poll...

Shame on you!

I shocked !

[jafar00]

Doesn't Turkey give right to Kurdish minority to speak their own language and doesn't Turkey allow their cultural activities ? :dizzy:

Yes they have the right to their culture, just not to terrorist attacks against innocent Turks.

[PatrickHenry]

Yes they have the right to their culture, just not to terrorist attacks against innocent Turks.

I wouldn't call Turkish soldiers innocents

They are the brutal fist of the regime oppressing the Kurds

If they are tasked with hitting Kurdish militants, then they are going to be hit back

And it ain't terrorism in the conventional sense

It's a military operation

[jafar00]

These links from Turkic Brat. The Kurds are terrorists. You should be congratulating them for going after PKK.

27 JULY 2008
PKK attack killed 17 people in Istanbul

http://www.reuters.com/article/worldNews/idUSL858213620080728


3 JANUARY 2008
Bomb Blast Kills 5 Diyarbakir, Turkey

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/04/world/europe/04turkey.html


22 MAY 2007
Turkish officials have confirmed that a suicide bomber caused a blast which killed 6 people and injured more than 90 in Ankara on Tuesday.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/6684549.stm


2 OCTOBER 2006
15 people have been injured in an explosion in Izmir - Turkey's third largest city.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/5400466.stm


12 SEPTEMBER 2006
Eleven people are killed, eight of them children, in a bomb blast in a park in Diyarbakir, a city in the country's mainly Kurdish south-east.

http://edition.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/europe/09/12/tuesday/?section=cnn_latest

28 AUGUST 2006
Three killed in terror attack at second Turkish resort - Antalya

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/travel/news/article621744.ece


4 AUGUST 2006
Turkey bomb explosions injure 13

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/5245744.stm


25 JUNE 2006
A blast thought to have been caused by an exploding gas canister at a Mediterranean resort in Turkey killed 4 people and injured at least 25 others.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/four-killed-in-explosion-at-turkish-tourist-area-405581.html


3 JUNE 2006
Fourteen people are injured in an explosion outside a shopping centre in the Mediterranean port city of Mersin.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/5043688.stm

16 APRIL 2006
Istanbul blast leaves 31 injured

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4914786.stm

31 MARCH 2006
A bomb blast has killed one person and injured 13 others near a bus stop

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4865928.stm

18 JULY 2005
Tributes were laid on Monday at the site where a tourist minibus was bombed over the weekend at a Turkish beach resort.

http://edition.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/europe/07/18/turkey.blast/index.html

10 JULY 2005
At least 20 people, including 2 tourists, injured by PKK bomb in Cesme

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4690181.stm

[Lanie]

These links from Turkic Brat. The Kurds are terrorists. You should be congratulating them for going after PKK.

27 JULY 2008
PKK attack killed 17 people in Istanbul

http://www.reuters.com/article/worldNews/idUSL858213620080728


3 JANUARY 2008
Bomb Blast Kills 5 Diyarbakir, Turkey

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/04/world/europe/04turkey.html


22 MAY 2007
Turkish officials have confirmed that a suicide bomber caused a blast which killed 6 people and injured more than 90 in Ankara on Tuesday.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/6684549.stm


2 OCTOBER 2006
15 people have been injured in an explosion in Izmir - Turkey's third largest city.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/5400466.stm


12 SEPTEMBER 2006
Eleven people are killed, eight of them children, in a bomb blast in a park in Diyarbakir, a city in the country's mainly Kurdish south-east.

http://edition.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/europe/09/12/tuesday/?section=cnn_latest

28 AUGUST 2006
Three killed in terror attack at second Turkish resort - Antalya

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/travel/news/article621744.ece


4 AUGUST 2006
Turkey bomb explosions injure 13

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/5245744.stm


25 JUNE 2006
A blast thought to have been caused by an exploding gas canister at a Mediterranean resort in Turkey killed 4 people and injured at least 25 others.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/four-killed-in-explosion-at-turkish-tourist-area-405581.html


3 JUNE 2006
Fourteen people are injured in an explosion outside a shopping centre in the Mediterranean port city of Mersin.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/5043688.stm

16 APRIL 2006
Istanbul blast leaves 31 injured

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4914786.stm

31 MARCH 2006
A bomb blast has killed one person and injured 13 others near a bus stop

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4865928.stm

18 JULY 2005
Tributes were laid on Monday at the site where a tourist minibus was bombed over the weekend at a Turkish beach resort.

http://edition.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/europe/07/18/turkey.blast/index.html

10 JULY 2005
At least 20 people, including 2 tourists, injured by PKK bomb in Cesme

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4690181.stm

The Kurds are not terrorists. These seperationist groups are terrorists. Thanks for posting these up though because I didn't know about that.

[LadyLawyer]

I support an independent Iraq.

We should not be in the business of telling countries where they should draw their borders. If Iraq becomes independent from the US, and they decide on their own accord to divide their country or not, then we should support that decision. I am afraid that until Iraq becomes dependent, that all decisions made will at least appear to have been made in the US, and that will undermine the government there.

Well Said, and it can't really be expanded upon. :thumbsup:

[LadyLawyer]

Why don't you take in consideration " Turkomans " in Iraq, maybe Turkey will take control some parts of North Iraq.

Especially Kirkuk and Tal Afar :)

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/41490000/gif/_41490132_iraq_mosul_tal_map203.gif

Tal Afar is a Turkoman(Turkmen) city in North Iraq, its population is 99% occurs with Turkomans
( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tal_Afar )

Turkoman(Turkmen) = Iraqi Turk

http://www.stratfor.com/files/mmf/7/a/7aa1a12c1ae17a3d8185657fa967886749c147e3.jpg


Historically; Arbil, Kirkuk and Mosol belongs to Turkey.

We lost there in World War I.

Turkish states in North Iraq

1. Great Seljuks (1055-1157) 102 Years
2. Iraq Seljuks (1118-1194) 76 Years
3. Mosul Atabegs (1127-1233) 106 Years
4. Kipcaks (1130-1140) 10 Years
5. Erbil Atabegs (1144-1209) 65 Years
6. İlhanli (1258-1344) 86 Years
7. Celayirlilar (1339-1410) 71 Years
8. Kara koyunlu (1411-1470 ) 59 Years
9. Ak koyunlu (1470-1508 ) 38 Years
10. Ottoman Empire (1534-1918 ) 384 Years
11. Turkey (1918-1925) 7 years (Under British occupy) (Turkish time certainly ended in 1925 Seyh Said Rebel, because Turkey was preparing a war against to England, so England provocated a Kurdish rebel which lasted more than 7 months, Turkey had to accept Kirkuk out of country even its majority of Turkish population,
it damaged Turkish army more than Turkish Independence War)


England created stupid Iraq, as a pupet against to Turkey


You and Yaro teach me so much!! Thanks.

[LadyLawyer]

Turkey had accepted " Iraq " in the region in treaty of Lausanne by giving up his Misak-i Milli condition. We didn't agree about Kurdistan in Lausanne and that will abolish our agreements with England related to North Iraq. Therefore, we will put Misak-i Milli on the agenda again.



If you create there a Kurdistan state, we will not recognize it.

If Isreal attacks Palestine due to terrorist groups by comparison Turkey can do due to PKK :)

And, If we make a military operation, you can't do anything.

and the Kurds have no right to create an independent kurdistan state also Iraqi Arabs will not want it. Because Kirkuk petrols belong to all Iraqis... If they create, and we don't occupy, we will stop giving water. ;)


http://news.bbc.co.uk/nol/shared/spl/hi/middle_east/03/v3_iraq_key_maps/img/maps/north_iraq_355map.gif

Do you see the rivers ?

One of them comes from Iran but its birth place is in Turkey too :)

And an unrecognized state is no for us, we don't give our water to nonexistent.

DESERTS HAHAHAHA :)

Excellent :clapper::clapper:

[LadyLawyer]

I don't think many people in Turkey would support your silly ideas of Ottoman supremacy.

I have no more time for you.

MAYBE ITS LATE, BUT THIS SEEMS A BIT IMPOLITE TO ME. AND UNNECESSARY. LETS TRY TO BE FRIENDLY. YOU GUYS ARE GOOD DEBATERS TO LEARN FROM.

LADYLAWYER/CAROL

[Sulayman]

You deal with him then. I don't have to.

[Bumin Khan]

You deal with him then. I don't have to.

Dealing with Turkic Brat!! :D :nana:

[EagleSeven]

Dealing with Turkic Brat!! :D :nana:

I don't think there are any Turks who are friendly with the Kurds. If the Kurds were to suddenly "stop existing" I believe the Turks would breath a sigh of relief...


That said, while I sympathize with the Kurds, the formation of a Kurdistan would further destabilize the entire region, over the long-term. We don't need a Kurdistan/Turkey/Iran confrontation that mimics the Israel/Palestine/Lebanon conflict.

[Sulayman]

Of course the Turks tried to make the Armenians stop existing back in 1915 but only managed to starve and murder possibly as many as a million and a half. One quarter of Turks are Kurds or have Kurdish blood so that avenue probably isn't the way to go. Turkic Brat will deny that this ever happened just like every other Turk I've run into on the internet.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armenian_Genocide
http://www.armenian-genocide.org/photo_wegner.html

People who think the American Indians were victims of genocide at the hands of the United States could profit from learning this history so they will know what a real genocide is.

[California Girl]

We could try the somewhat novel approach of minding our own damned business?

Just a thought.

[Bumin Khan]

Of course the Turks tried to make the Armenians stop existing back in 1915 but only managed to starve and murder possibly as many as a million and a half. One quarter of Turks are Kurds or have Kurdish blood so that avenue probably isn't the way to go. Turkic Brat will deny that this ever happened just like every other Turk I've run into on the internet.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armenian_Genocide
http://www.armenian-genocide.org/photo_wegner.html

People who think the American Indians were victims of genocide at the hands of the United States could profit from learning this history so they will know what a real genocide is.


What do you think who you are after posting lie and political based shit ?

Ottoman Armenian population was 1.7 millions now they live in United States and Europe, we kicked all of them.

Therefore, today about 1 million Armenians live in United States(Especially, in California) and about 250.000 in France, 180.000 in Argentina, 190.000 in Syria, 180.000 in Lebanon, 100.000 in Ukrania and 80.000 in Turkey.

According demographic data and current Armenians population, genocide is obviously lie

But, you killed all the indians this is we have accept what the genocide is

[Sulayman]

Just as I predicted!

Thanks for making it so easy Turkic Brat.

[Bumin Khan]

Maybe you should learn some real history

http://www.democracyforums.com/showthread.php?t=27243


Your statement was something like "in 24 hours the sun will rise"

[Sulayman]

Blah, blah blah...

[Bumin Khan]

bla bla bla

Go to shave

[jafar00]

But, you killed all the indians this is we have accept what the genocide is



Touche :p

[Bumin Khan]

Touche :p

He had jibed me I jibed him :evil:

[Milton Bradley]

Well Brat, just look at who your government is in bed with, our government.


That pretty much says it all.

[Bumin Khan]

Well Brat, just look at who your government is in bed with, our government.


That pretty much says it all.

Yeah!

They had gotten married! :dork:

This video is from 1925 - Mustafa Kemal Ataturk(Leader of Turkish War Of Independence) speaks
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tk970x04t1A


Our relations started in 1799.

And current governer party is proAmerican( it is moderate Islamic Party - AKP or AK Party)

But the opposing parties are not pro-American and they are strongly secular. Republicans(CHP) and Nationalists(MHP) probably create a coalition government and weaken moderate Islamic Ak Party so that, this might prepare divorce with United States

[Milton Bradley]

Sure, just pull our heart out, and trample on it.

[Bumin Khan]

Sure, just pull our heart out, and trample on it.

To be honest, I am a Turk nationalist but also I have a love for Americans...

I want my country to be impartial for west(NATO side) and Russia side.

This doesn't mean our relations will be bad If Republicans(CHP) and Nationalists(MHP) come to create a coalition government...

But, all the relations (should be) based on mutual trust.

You are creating a Kurdistan near my southeast border. While you are arming Kurdish dogs in North Iraq, your president says " Turkey is our great strategic partner and ally " All the people in Turkey debate this contradiction!

You are there to fight against to terrorism ?

If yes, why the PKK terrorists are feeded in North Iraq mountains ?

Why (so-called) Kurdistan government did nothing up to today against to PKK ?

[Milton Bradley]

You are there to fight against to terrorism ?


Heh, don't confuse me, and my government. We couldn't be any more unlike each other.

[Bumin Khan]

Heh, don't confuse me, and my government. We couldn't be any more unlike each other.

This is not the answer

[Kurdish_voice]

Turkey had accepted " Iraq " in the region in treaty of Lausanne by giving up his Misak-i Milli condition. We didn't agree about Kurdistan in Lausanne and that will abolish our agreements with England related to North Iraq. Therefore, we will put Misak-i Milli on the agenda again.

:madlaugh::madlaugh::madlaugh::madlaugh::madlaugh:

kid wake up to yourself this isnt the ottoman empire era anymore , kurds have a right for self-determination just like turks arabs any nationalities out there and they were betrayed back in 1923 when there land was divided and given away to turks arabs and persians , there are 40 million kurds in the world and there are countries with population of only 500,000 . by the way turkey was just a region like KRG is today back in 1923.



If you create there a Kurdistan state, we will not recognize it.

i think we can live with that :D

If Isreal attacks Palestine due to terrorist groups by comparison Turkey can do due to PKK :)

KRG or Kurdistan regional government and its people dont support PKK neither are against it , its a kurdish-turkish issue in turkey that can be fixed in turkey we have nothing to do with this dont try to trick yourself . they arent even in our cities towns or villages they are on the turkish-KRG border and turkey can as far if it wants . full stop

And, If we make a military operation, you can't do anything.

really ?? says who ? are you Erdogans son or something ???

and the Kurds have no right to create an independent kurdistan state also Iraqi Arabs will not want it. Because Kirkuk petrols belong to all Iraqis... If they create, and we don't occupy, we will stop giving water. ;)

your a total ignorant and a barbarian , kurds just like turks have every right to have there own state , its too late to stop it happening . you can slow it down but wont stop it .

Do you see the rivers ?

One of them comes from Iran but its birth place is in Turkey too :)

buddy get over the waters 1st they belong to north Kurdistan 2nd south Kurdistan depends on mountainous water resources that source from KRG-Iran borders . get your facts right.

And an unrecognized state is no for us, we don't give our water to nonexistent.

loool its not yours and it your occupation of north Kurdistan wont last longer

- 2 millions Turkomen population in North Iraq (If they oppress Turkomens this gives right to take back there, especially Turkish city Tal Afar)

Talafar is the only minority turkmen town in iraq that has a high population of them , and can you show me the census that shows 2 million turkmen ??? LOL they are only majority in 1 small town which you named and how can a town contain that many people ??? contradiction and false agenda. and turkmen 1st came into these regions during ottoman empire as military recruits in 1055 kurds out date that by 7000 years , refer to Jarmo Neolithic village archaeological site (7,000 B.C.) in iraqi Kurdistan ;).

Kerkuk is a kurdish city since the Gutis ancestors of kurds and they actually built Kiekuk and named it arraphka but in time it was changed to ker kuk which in kurdish means son of tribes.

- PKK terror camps/in North Iraq mountain (that give us right to invade there)

according to wikileaks US sees PKK as freedom fighters but cos turkey is a nato puppet it lets it call pkk terrorists

, turkish state however again according to wiki supported Al Qayda in iraq and now supports hamas against Israel.

have you heard of JITEM ?? they are turkish state bunch of terrorists if you google them enuff info on there terrible work and recent mass grave discoveries in kurdistan of turkey.

WHY PKK FIGHTS AGAINST TURKISH ARMY ??? see this video and decide

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AD6Suthn-Vc&feature=player_embedded


- Turkey gives his water to Iraqis, If we stop it, they die :) therefore, they have to accept our conditions.

really ?? lol you will see :)

They can't drink petrol as water :)

um US EU and UN all favor oil over water any day . get your shit together kid. now go grab your pillow and have a nice dream .

[Kurdish_voice]

for your info kid Kurdish forces have now entered Kirkuk and other sliced off kurdish areas that were done by saddam cos they have oil in them which should have been done back in 2003 and an independence Kurdistan from iraq is only inches away .


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frJ6RPiswyo

[Kurdish_voice]

You are creating a Kurdistan near my southeast border. While you are arming Kurdish dogs in North Iraq, your president says " Turkey is our great strategic partner and ally " All the people in Turkey debate this contradiction!

kurdish dogs ?? i think its the otherway around turks have killed and genocieded many nations

kurds
greeks
Albanians
Armenians
Bulgarians
Assyrians

and to this day they deny such terrible acts , shame on you barbarians karma is sweet when the right moment comes all these nations will bite back.


Why (so-called) Kurdistan government did nothing up to today against to PKK ?

cos its not our problem or fight why dont you ask nato to help ? your there puppet after all ;). or why dont you listen to what they want ??? they are only asking for an autonomy in turkey !!?? they were in there region before you showed up from Mongolia !!?

[Kurdish_voice]

Turkmen express support for police in Kirkuk

PUKmedia 2011-03-05

Kirkuk's Kurdish police chief, Maj. Gen. Jamal Tahir met Saturday with members of Turkmen tribal council to discuss the security developments in Kirkuk.
During the meeting, the police chief Jamal Tahir shed light on the fears and tensions made by the pro-Baath chauvinists and terrorist groups in the city, discussing the police efforts to foil the plots made by those groups.
He said his forces were committed to protect all the ethnical and religious groups in the city without discrimination.
For their part, the Turkmen attendants appreciated the role of police forces in protecting and keeping the security of the city and expressed their support for them.

[Berggeist]

The borders drawn by the Western powers at the advent of the 20th century reflected and continue to reflect no reality of custom, tradition and habit, prerequisites in an organic society and in the type of polity which reflects that society or those societies. These artificial states created by the West have no natural foundation; hence, they are held together by strong men directly or indirectly supported by Western powers. The Kurds have a big row to hoe: they will have to deal with the Iraqis, the Iranians and the Turks. I wish them well; however, success or failure in such a venture will be bloody. Hopefully, they know the score before they embark. The West should stay out of such a melee; however, history shows that we are arrogant fools, so I would not bet on it.

[Kurdish_voice]

Kurds in Iraq dont wanna claim territories from Iran or turkey , if they are willing to let go thats a different story , for example there are Arab cities on Iraq Iran border and Iraq isnt claiming them ? there is a region called Azerbaijan on iran Azerbaijan border and i dont see Azerbaijan claiming it !! you guys mix shit up .

2ndly for turk brat, claiming turkmen in iraq are 2 million ? lol this is a crap lie spread by the turkey's puppet , turkmen front political party . i put it to you , 1st they have any evidence for these false claims ? even though they are only majority in 1 tiny town and minority in one city ? 2nd when iraq wanted to conduct a census guess who it was that opposed it ? it was tukmen front party cos they are scared there lie will be revealed and resulting in turkey giving up on them cos in the census it has one section asking "nationality" in it . ;). you need to work on your lying skills next time cos you suck at it

next ?

[Kurdish_voice]

The map of Ottoman Empire was made in 1893 during Abdul Hamid II
There is Kurdistan If you read Arabic alphabet There is wide land called Kurdistan It means that "Kurdistan" was present as a region before "Turkey"


Source http://tr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osmanlı_İmparatorluğu

and in this map it clearly shows Kurdistan and Kirkuk as part of it highlighted in red


http://i752.photobucket.com/albums/xx167/SecularSaracen/map3.png



also the census in 1957 shows kurds are majority in Kirkuk city and itd districts . so turkmen my ass , they only form majority in Tal afar and trust me they can have it its like 2 cities away from Kirkuk its located in Mosul ;).



http://a3.l3-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/130/ffa06c34d5c14d3fb3272d8facd7c237/l.jpg

[Kurdish_voice]

in 2005 there was a referendum on article 140 in the iraq constitution which calls for a referendum in Kirkuk to restore back to Autonomous Kurdistan region where it belongs lets see the results shall we ??

Kikrkuk - 62.91% said YES and 37.09% said NO ?!!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraqi_c...ferendum,_2005


but as always Baghdad didnt agree and its been dragging until recently Kurdish forces poured into Kirkuk and they will never leave this time which means its now part of Kurdistan.

[Kurdish_voice]

im a Kurd from Kirkuk and i know whats going on in my city , your a turk from turkey so if i were you i would sort out the 20 million kurds and their issue in turkey 1st then stick my nose into iraqi Kurdistan and others business which does not concern you in any possible way.

[Bumin Khan]

im a Kurd from Kirkuk and i know whats going on in my city , your a turk from turkey so if i were you i would sort out the 20 million kurds and their issue in turkey 1st then stick my nose into iraqi Kurdistan and others business which does not concern you in any possible way.

yeah Kurds are illegally settled from other regions to change ethnic population rate, city has mainly Arab and Turkoman majority.... You are aware of it.


http://a3.l3-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/130/ffa06c34d5c14d3fb3272d8facd7c237/l.jpg

And your source proves as well. The city originally has mostly Arab/Turkoman population.

Kurds were nomadic people until 20th century, they settled the cities very soon.

[Bumin Khan]

The map of Ottoman Empire was made in 1893 during Abdul Hamid II
There is Kurdistan If you read Arabic alphabet There is wide land called Kurdistan It means that "Kurdistan" was present as a region before "Turkey"


It is not a country. The name of region...It ise somewhere Kurdish nomadic/settled people live in... There is also Turkestan from Central Asia to Anatolia, in same way.
http://www.turkistan.net/turkistan.png

Turkestan/Turkistan is similar to " Kurdistan" term, as where Turkic peoples live in....

So you argument is fruitless.

[Kurdish_voice]

It is not a country. The name of region...It ise somewhere Kurdish nomadic/settled people live in... There is also Turkestan from Central Asia to Anatolia, in same way.


Turkestan/Turkistan is similar to " Kurdistan" term, as where Turkic peoples live in....

So you argument is fruitless.

actually your reply was fruitless cos i said it was called "Kurdistan region" not a country ! this is a proof kurds outlive turks in so called whats called today turkey which was created only in 1923. i dont just say it history is telling me ;).

http://sangam.org/taraki/articles/2006/images/az-kurd-map_000.gif

Kurdistan existed as a "region" then turks traveled to Mongolia and settled in thats called today "turkey" then in 1923 they were given a state by the help of french and brits and they raped kurds and gave a big chunk of there land to turkey , this has to be reversed im sure it will in the end its a slow process but it has started from iraqi Kurdistan already. i challenge any turk that can prove they lived in whats called turkey today in 1071 !? showww meeeeee ?

you see in the map above thats is where kurds live and they are stateless ??? right . thanks to so called "Muslim" countries around us that kept raping us of our rights i wish were surrounded bu Christians.

[Kurdish_voice]

@ turkic brat . . . . i loled at your map cos it shows iraqi KURDISTAN as full turkic people , kurds are majority in iraqi Kurdistan they are Aryans not turkic and they now have a semi-state self rule region in iraq . there are turkmens in iraq their number dont exceed 500,000 even though one political party that was established by turkey (turkey's puppet) front turkmen party claimrd there are 2 million of them in iraq (this party was dissolved by turkmen themselves for there failed policies towards turkmens in Kerkuk).

now i can just reject these falsified information in 2 easy steps.

1. turkmen are only MAJORITY in one small town in Mosul Arab province called Tal afar and then 2 cities away they are MINORITY in kerkuk with Kurds majority.

2. kurds wanted or still want a Census to be carried out in iraq but "turkmen front party" use to refuse it do you know why ? cos they were scared shitless there lame lies will be revealed and which would have resulted in turkey stopping the puppetry support for them .

Thank God this party no longer exists cos of their failed policy for turkmen , they did not achieve anything for turkmen except supporting turkey's agenda (stopping kerkuk from annexing to Kurdistan where it belongs) , there failed policy caused Arabs invading turkmen lands and yet turkey asked them to join arab parties in Baghdad and to this day no kurd has deprived a turkmen of there land cos we dont wanna be a terror state like turkey destroying there villages and pi$$ them off to Kurdish populated areas to have them kurdified. turkmen today want to be part of a Kurdistan not an iraq.

cos kurds dont kick em off there lands and kill them like it happened a month ago in Bashir village which resulted in 4 turkmen dead by arab settlers which were brought in during Saddam's era, they have realized if they go Kurdistan way they will be 2nd citizens if they go iraq way they will be 3rd.
arabs refused to give turkmen a president vicey but Kurdistan president Barzani has promised them a turkmen vicey.

and recent deployment of Kurdish forces into kerkuk proved just this , before turkmen in kerkuk use to unit there voice with arabs against kurds of course turkmens were moved by the dissolved turkmen front party but when Peshmerga forces entered kerkuk on 25/2/2011 it was only arabs that protested and turkmen came on tv and said we are with Pesh presence they protect us from terrorist acts thats been going on against turkmen in kerkuk.

now go to be kid its bed time.

[Kurdish_voice]

It is not a country. The name of region...It ise somewhere Kurdish nomadic/settled people live in... There is also Turkestan from Central Asia to Anatolia, in same way.


Turkestan/Turkistan is similar to " Kurdistan" term, as where Turkic peoples live in....

So you argument is fruitless.


do you know the different between your map and my map ? my map represents Kurdish population as of "Today" your map is for the ottoman empire era when turks invaded the whole region it doesn't mean those regions covered in red are or were turkS LOL nice try though.

http://sangam.org/taraki/articles/2006/images/az-kurd-map_000.gif

[Lanie]

I'd support an independent Kurdistan if it wouldn't interfere with other regions. I'm thinking it's going to cause three new conflicts.

[Levski]

What about the "kurdish" portions of Iran and Turkey? You also must remember that this part of Iraq is very rich in Oil deposits. It won't be given up without a fight.

I can always count on Jafar to be knowledgeable..!
In Bulgaria even we have a town that connotes: "The City of Kurds" or Kurdzhali
It is located in Southeast Bulgaria about 60-80 kilometers from the Turkish border.

[HT!]

I am all for it as long as it does not include any of what is currently Türkiye.

And ALL Kurdish officials are PKK-connected. You would not rise to become anyone of any authority in the Kurdish hierarchy without being, supporting, or enabling PKK actions.

[Zrian]

As my opinion, All Kurdish people want to see an independent Kurdistan in their lives even if it needs sacrifice .We all are ready to do everything to achieve that ambition . We all have to ask that question "Is there any other people like Kurdish who have not an independent country ???".. in other side , we are unlucky because those peoples who support Kurdish people to get their right are a few and most of them have killed by those who hate Kurdistan.Why there is no body to support us?? what else do we have left to sacrifice ?? just in 40 yeas past, over 180000 Kurdish people have killed by a bad regime in Iraq..Why a strong country supported a region in Africa to get independent but does not support us???..

I support independence for Kurdistan ....

((sorry for my grammar mistakes ))

[Tom Joad]

Let them sort it out for themselves.

The US needs to quit sticking it's nose into the internal affairs of other countries. All we ever accomplish when we meddle is creating a great big giant clusterfuck.

[SoonerBorn]

Let them sort it out for themselves.

The US needs to quit sticking it's nose into the internal affairs of other countries. All we ever accomplish when we meddle is creating a great big giant clusterfuck.

That's impossible, unless you want to quit NATO. Turkey will invade the second the Kurds declare an independent state.

[Schwarzwald]

I am quite surprised that the better ultimate question isn't being asked here, one which Woodrow Wilson rightly raised during the aftermath of World War I:

Do the Kurdish people as a whole (at least in the Middle Eastern regions) have a right to self determination?

At the end of the day it hardly matters whether the US, China, Russia, the United Kingdom or 99% of humanity supports or opposes an independent state and sovereignty for the Kurds. None of this matters if the Kurds themselves have little say in this arrangement or process, that is IF this want to be a part of the process.

Self determination by its very definition is determination by oneself or itself, without outside influence. To that end of course I would support the Kurdish people's right to self determination, a right which all peoples consequentially or inconsequentially, should have the right to exercise.

[HT!]

What you currently see in the Batman, Diyarbakir, Van, Erzurum rectangle is the latter stages of what U.S. Border advocates (and fanatics) see as the future of the Southwest U.S. And you can see it happening with Mexicans the way it's happened with Kurds: a much higher birth rate than Turks, and a migration into Southeastern Türkiye that the Turks are having a hard time dealing with. I fear that they will resolve it violently again, within the next 5 years.

BTW, the Armenians do not want a Kurdistan abutting their border. And they have a lot more political power in the U.S. than Kurds or Turks.