US border attacked

[Anti-Racism]

A U.S. Border Patrol entry Identification Team site was attacked and overrun Wednesday night along the Arizona-Mexico.

According to the Border Patrol authorities, an unknown number of gunmen attacked a site in the state’s West Desert Region around 11 p.m. The site is being manned by National Guardsmen.

http://www.nationalterroralert.com/updates/2007/01/04/us-border-patrol-site-attacked-by-gunmen/

[CheesyMuslim]

Sorry bout that,

1. But this kind of action from our Mexican Neighbors could lead to war.
2. In a war with Mexico we would win in 3.10 days.
3. Mexico needs to send some show of force to its border to insure its own safety.

Regards,
SirJamesofTexas

[sbannon]

This was reported 6 days ago by a few small market outlets and still hasn't been picked up by any of the major carriers out there, nor commented on by the N.G., other than they "still won't say if any shots were ever fired".

It's weird because I'd think that American troops retreating on American soil would be a major story if that's what actually took place?

[lily]

More stories from that site:rolleyes:

Report: Irans Ayatollah Ali Khamenei Dead

Nuclear Plant Target For Stolen Rocket Launchers »

[Buck Laser]

Yeah, I took a look at that site, and it seems to belong to some survivalist dude. In no way is it an official site for ANY gummint agency.

I tend to take reports of attacks by "terrorist Mexicans" with a very large grain of salt--like a fifty pound block. I figure some freepers are shitting their pants over this, but I figure it was something like the Border Patrol cutting into some Mexican drug lord's profits. I don't consider that a terrorism issue.

[BoogyMan]

I had posted on this topic a few days back with a link from AZ Central.

http://www.democracyforums.com/showthread.php?tid=2871

[lily]

Well, then I take it back. If it was written up in the local paper.

[BoogyMan]

Well, then I take it back. If it was written up in the local paper.


I have to wonder though, why there hasn't been more commentary about this in the major news outlets.

[sbannon]

My point exactly, Boogy. I really wasn't being sarcastic (though in reading my earlier post even I see it coming over that way). But seriously, American forces retreating on American soil? That's a huge story... yet there's been nothing on any of the major carriers for a week now. That makes me think there's something suspect here.

[Flea_Bit_Monkey]

Well, they put border patrol in prison if they shoot an illegal.

[Alonzo]

LUKEVILLE, Ariz. -- U.S. Border Patrol officials still don't know why National Guard troops along the Arizona-Mexico border had to flee a group of armed people. The gunmen fled into Mexico.

The gunmen attacked the U.S. Border Patrol entry site along Arizona's border before retreating back to Mexico on Wednesday night. The troops withdrew safely Wednesday night, and no was injured.

According to the Border Patrol, an unknown number of gunmen overran the Identification Team site, which is manned by National Guardsmen.


The Border Patrol wouldn't say whether any shots were fired.

Officials don't know who the gunmen were or why they approached the border post.

The situation occurred on the 120-mile section of the border between Nogales and Lukeville. The area is known as a major drug corridor and has been a busy one for marijuana seizures.

There are dozens of National Guard entrance identification teams along the Mexican border, including east and west of both Nogales and Sasabe and on the Tohono O'odham Nation.

The troops stand post on hilltops next to army-green tents and serve as extra eyes and ears for the Border Patrol.

With more Border Patrol agents and National Guard troops patrolling the Arizona section of the U.S.-Mexico border, it has become more difficult to smuggle drugs and people across, and "that heightened frustration may have been connected to what took place last night," said Rob Daniels, the spokesman for the Border Patrol's Tucson Sector.

The Border Patrol said its agents have seized a record amount of marijuana from smugglers along the Arizona-Mexico border for the fifth year in a row, confiscating 331 tons of marijuana worth $530 million. The seizure almost equaled the 350 tons seized in California, Texas and New Mexico combined, and the agency praised the Guard for its contribution to making the seizures.

California National Guard helicopters deployed to help monitor the U.S.-Mexico border were grounded Jan. 3 following a crash the day before that injured nine people in the mountains east of San Diego.

The helicopter was bringing a Border Patrol team to remote areas for operations against human smugglers.

Two National Guard soldiers and three Border Patrol agents remain hospitalized. There is no word yet on the cause. Guard officials said the crash will be investigated by the California National Guard and the U.S. Army Aviation center at Fort Rucker, Ala.

http://www.thebostonchannel.com/news/10677961/detail.html

Seems like it was all about smuggling drugs.

[BoogyMan]

My point exactly, Boogy. I really wasn't being sarcastic (though in reading my earlier post even I see it coming over that way). But seriously, American forces retreating on American soil? That's a huge story... yet there's been nothing on any of the major carriers for a week now. That makes me think there's something suspect here.


I didn't take your commentary that way Scott. I did some more searching and it seems like people are talking about this story in venues all over the net EXCEPT in the major news outlets. It is very odd.

[Alonzo]

Here's some more on the incident:

National Guard soldiers who abandoned an observation post on the U.S.-Mexico border after spotting armed men approaching their position acted appropriately by retreating to a safer location, the U.S. Border Patrol said yesterday.

Border Patrol spokesman Mario Martinez at the agency's D.C. headquarters said that although the National Guard troops were armed and authorized to use force in self-defense, they determined they were not in imminent danger and retreated to call for help.

"The Border Patrol responded within minutes with air and ground units, but found no one in the area," Mr. Martinez said. "In this situation, the National Guard troops did exactly what was expected of them, exactly what they should have done.

"The Guard troops are not there to engage, interdict or arrest anyone but to man observation posts," he said.

The troops were members of an entry-identification team, assigned to monitor major illegal-alien and drug-smuggling corridors.

Mr. Martinez said that no shots were exchanged and that no one was injured in the incident, which occurred Wednesday shortly after 11 p.m. near Sasabe, Ariz., about 70 miles southwest of Tucson. He said agents who responded to the site found footprints leading back to Mexico.

The armed men had come within 100 yards of the observation post.
Mr. Martinez said the Border Patrol has not identified the four or five armed men involved in the incident but said the Guard troops spotted them with their night-vision equipment and confirmed they were carrying rifles.

Several Border Patrol field agents said the armed men could have been a scouting party for drug smugglers or might have been testing the National Guard's response to a cross-border intrusion. ....

The Guard troops are not empowered to get involved in law-enforcement duties. They cannot detain, arrest or interdict anyone or anything coming across the border -- only report them to the Border Patrol.

http://washingtontimes.com/national/20070108-115830-3144r.htm

This seems like much less of a story when you actually learn the background info.

[BoogyMan]

Several Border Patrol field agents said the armed men could have been a scouting party for drug smugglers or might have been testing the National Guard's response to a cross-border intrusion.

The commentary above from Alonzo's Washington Times post had crossed my mind. I don't know that it is less of a story, but I am concerned that they guardsmen are placed down there without a mandate to protect themselves.

[Flea_Bit_Monkey]

Well, then I take it back. If it was written up in the local paper.


I have to wonder though, why there hasn't been more commentary about this in the major news outlets.


Because they are run by liberals who support illegals.

[Alonzo]

Several Border Patrol field agents said the armed men could have been a scouting party for drug smugglers or might have been testing the National Guard's response to a cross-border intrusion.

The commentary above from Alonzo's Washington Times post had crossed my mind.Â*Â*I don't know that it is less of a story, but I am concerned that they guardsmen are placed down there without a mandate to protect themselves.


It says they can protect themselves:

Border Patrol spokesman Mario Martinez at the agency's D.C. headquarters said that although the National Guard troops were armed and authorized to use force in self-defense, they determined they were not in imminent danger and retreated to call for help.


It's just that fighting isn't their job and, unless it is unavoidable, they call in backup if they are confronted with a threat.

[Flea_Bit_Monkey]

You forget that border patrol agents have been put in prison for shooting an illegal. They can't really protect themselves without risking prison.

[BoogyMan]

It says they can protect themselves:

Border Patrol spokesman Mario Martinez at the agency's D.C. headquarters said that although the National Guard troops were armed and authorized to use force in self-defense, they determined they were not in imminent danger and retreated to call for help.


It's just that fighting isn't their job and, unless it is unavoidable, they call in backup if they are confronted with a threat.


DUH! I just read right past that one. Thanks for pointing it out.

I think Flea has a point though with his commentary about border agents not being backed up when they do have to shoot.

[Alonzo]

But, the incidents I remember hearing about anyway, involved shooting illegals who did not pose any imminent physical danger to the border agents.

[BoogyMan]

But, the incidents I remember hearing about anyway, involved shooting illegals who did not pose any imminent physical danger to the border agents.

I think the story to which Flea is referring can be referenced below:


Source: Link Here (http://washingtontimes.com/national/20060815-110411-6249r.htm)

Two U.S. Border Patrol agents facing 20 years in prison for shooting in the buttocks a drug-smuggling suspect should get a new trial because they are "victims of prosecutorial misconduct," including an unjust grant of immunity, says the head of the National Border Patrol Council.
NBPC President T.J. Bonner said exonerating evidence was withheld during the March trial of Senior Agents Ignacio "Nacho" Ramos and Jose A. Compean, whose sentencing is set for Tuesday, adding that the agents followed long-established Border Patrol policies in the incident.
He also said the suspect fled into Mexico after the shooting but later was given immunity on drug-smuggling charges to testify against the agents.
"This thing stinks to high heaven," Mr. Bonner said. "I am outraged and at a loss to explain why there were so many irregularities in this case. The only thing that is clear is that the prosecutors pointed their guns at the wrong guys, the good guys, and they let the bad guy walk. Now they want to send these agents to prison for doing their job.
"That offends me, and I believe most Americans would agree," he said.
On Friday, two of the 12 jurors who convicted the agents told the Inland Valley Daily Bulletin in Ontario, Calif., that they were pressured by prosecutors to return guilty verdicts and that other jurors sought a quick verdict because spring break was a week away and they wanted to avoid a long deliberation.
Osbaldo Aldrete-Davila was wounded as he ran from the agents along the Rio Grande near El Paso, Texas. The agents said he pointed what appeared to be a gun at them as they tried to apprehend him. More than 800 pounds of marijuana, worth $1 million, was found in the van he abandoned at the river's edge.
Aldrete-Davila is suing the federal government for $5 million, saying his civil rights were violated.
A federal jury in El Paso convicted Ramos, 37, and Compean, 28, in March of causing serious bodily injury, assault with a deadly weapon, discharge of a firearm in relation to a crime of violence and a civil rights violation. The shooting occurred Feb. 17.
Spotted in his van near the Rio Grande, records show Ramos gave chase while Compean circled around to head off the suspect. When Aldrete-Davila jumped out of the van and ran south to the river, he was confronted by Compean, who was thrown to the ground as the two men fought. Ramos said he saw Compean on the ground and chased Aldrete-Davila to the river, where the suspect suddenly turned toward him, pointing what looked like a gun.
"I shot, but I didn't think he was hit because he kept running into the brush and then disappeared into it," Ramos said. "Later, we all watched as he jumped into a van waiting for him. He seemed fine. It didn't look like he had been hit at all."
Mr. Bonner said that two weeks later, Aldrete-Davila called a Border Patrol agent in Arizona to say he was "forming a hunting party" to track down and shoot some agents for revenge. Mr. Bonner said the agent, who lived in Mexico and knew Aldrete-Davila before immigrating to the United States and becoming a citizen, advised against the plan and said he would report the incident to the Department of Homeland Security.
An investigator from the Office of Inspector General tracked down Aldrete-Davila in Mexico, where he was offered immunity in exchange for testimony. Assistant U.S. Attorney Deborah Kanof, who prosecuted the case, was not available yesterday for comment. During the trial, she argued it was a violation of Border Patrol policy for agents to pursue fleeing suspects.
Mr. Bonner, a 28-year Border Patrol veteran, also said the NBPC, which represents all 10,000 of the agency's nonsupervisory agents, opposed efforts under way in California by Friends of the Border Patrol and Grassfire.org to petition President Bush for a pardon, saying that would suggest the agents did something wrong. He said the NBPC "is confident the agents will be exonerated at a fair trial."
Border Patrol officials have declined to comment on the case, citing pending litigation.

[Flea_Bit_Monkey]

Given that three jurors were coerced, it can't really give these guardsmen any confidence in the system, can it?

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=52545

[Alonzo]

But, the incidents I remember hearing about anyway, involved shooting illegals who did not pose any imminent physical danger to the border agents.

I think the story to which Flea is referring can be referenced below:


Source: Link Here (http://washingtontimes.com/national/20060815-110411-6249r.htm)

Two U.S. Border Patrol agents facing 20 years in prison for shooting in the buttocks a drug-smuggling suspect should get a new trial because they are "victims of prosecutorial misconduct," including an unjust grant of immunity, says the head of the National Border Patrol Council.
Â*Â*Â*Â*NBPC President T.J. Bonner said exonerating evidence was withheld during the March trial of Senior Agents Ignacio "Nacho" Ramos and Jose A. Compean, whose sentencing is set for Tuesday, adding that the agents followed long-established Border Patrol policies in the incident.
Â*Â*Â*Â*He also said the suspect fled into Mexico after the shooting but later was given immunity on drug-smuggling charges to testify against the agents.
Â*Â*Â*Â*"This thing stinks to high heaven," Mr. Bonner said. "I am outraged and at a loss to explain why there were so many irregularities in this case. The only thing that is clear is that the prosecutors pointed their guns at the wrong guys, the good guys, and they let the bad guy walk. Now they want to send these agents to prison for doing their job.
Â*Â*Â*Â*"That offends me, and I believe most Americans would agree," he said.
Â*Â*Â*Â*On Friday, two of the 12 jurors who convicted the agents told the Inland Valley Daily Bulletin in Ontario, Calif., that they were pressured by prosecutors to return guilty verdicts and that other jurors sought a quick verdict because spring break was a week away and they wanted to avoid a long deliberation.
Â*Â*Â*Â*Osbaldo Aldrete-Davila was wounded as he ran from the agents along the Rio Grande near El Paso, Texas. The agents said he pointed what appeared to be a gun at them as they tried to apprehend him. More than 800 pounds of marijuana, worth $1 million, was found in the van he abandoned at the river's edge.
Â*Â*Â*Â*Aldrete-Davila is suing the federal government for $5 million, saying his civil rights were violated.
Â*Â*Â*Â*A federal jury in El Paso convicted Ramos, 37, and Compean, 28, in March of causing serious bodily injury, assault with a deadly weapon, discharge of a firearm in relation to a crime of violence and a civil rights violation. The shooting occurred Feb. 17.
Â*Â*Â*Â*Spotted in his van near the Rio Grande, records show Ramos gave chase while Compean circled around to head off the suspect. When Aldrete-Davila jumped out of the van and ran south to the river, he was confronted by Compean, who was thrown to the ground as the two men fought. Ramos said he saw Compean on the ground and chased Aldrete-Davila to the river, where the suspect suddenly turned toward him, pointing what looked like a gun.
Â*Â*Â*Â*"I shot, but I didn't think he was hit because he kept running into the brush and then disappeared into it," Ramos said. "Later, we all watched as he jumped into a van waiting for him. He seemed fine. It didn't look like he had been hit at all."
Â*Â*Â*Â*Mr. Bonner said that two weeks later, Aldrete-Davila called a Border Patrol agent in Arizona to say he was "forming a hunting party" to track down and shoot some agents for revenge. Mr. Bonner said the agent, who lived in Mexico and knew Aldrete-Davila before immigrating to the United States and becoming a citizen, advised against the plan and said he would report the incident to the Department of Homeland Security.
Â*Â*Â*Â*An investigator from the Office of Inspector General tracked down Aldrete-Davila in Mexico, where he was offered immunity in exchange for testimony. Assistant U.S. Attorney Deborah Kanof, who prosecuted the case, was not available yesterday for comment. During the trial, she argued it was a violation of Border Patrol policy for agents to pursue fleeing suspects.
Â*Â*Â*Â*Mr. Bonner, a 28-year Border Patrol veteran, also said the NBPC, which represents all 10,000 of the agency's nonsupervisory agents, opposed efforts under way in California by Friends of the Border Patrol and Grassfire.org to petition President Bush for a pardon, saying that would suggest the agents did something wrong. He said the NBPC "is confident the agents will be exonerated at a fair trial."
Â*Â*Â*Â*Border Patrol officials have declined to comment on the case, citing pending litigation.


Well, it's interesting, but it seems to hinge on whether or not the guard really thought he saw a gun. But it doesn't seem to be an open and shut case for either side.

If he saw a gun being pointed at him then he did what he should have done, otherwise the border agent should be punished.

[Anti-Racism]

Mexican immigration benefits poultry makers, mostly. It's a time bomb for the economy, in addition to other problems.