PDA

View Full Version : Sources


wonder cow
01-07-2007, 01:49 PM
On Sources

One of the things I have noticed in this new age of the interweb, is that people are not as discriminating about sources as they should be.

When making an argument on any particular point, especially points that may be controversial, it is important not just to provide a source but a credible source.

Providing a poor source is the same or worse than providing none.

Although it is debatable about what constitutes a credible source, some sources are clearly not credible.

Here are some examples.

Bloggers

Although not automatically a poor source, anyone can spend 15 minutes and throw up a blog. Be very suspicious of any information you get from these quasi wannabe journalists. Do not be surprised if you use some blog as a source and someone challenges it.

"This morning I ordered a blueberry muffin from the coffee shop, but when I got to the office I realized they had given me a doughnut instead. By the way, 90% of death row inmates once worked for McDonald's."

Wikis

Wiki’s are not always wrong and not always a poor source. But we must exercise caution when citing wkikis. Anyone can register an account and add to or edit a wiki. This means two bad things. Firstly, any controversial issue is a target for manipulation. Secondly, the people providing the information may not really be as well informed on the subject as they think they are.

So, if the wiki article is about the Presidency of Grover Cleveland, it should be fairly safe. If the wiki article is about the Confederate States of America, you may want to proceed with caution, because there are many amongst the neo-confederate movement who are motivated to manipulate the history of that era.

"News" articles

Firstly, news articles may or may not be a legitimate source, depending on the subject. If the subject is some event that took place, a news article from a known newspaper may be sufficient. If the subject is something more technical, then the question of credibility falls on the credibility of the author as an expert in that area and/or on the sources the author himself provides.

If you provide a news article as a source, use a known, non-sensationalistic publication. The National Enquirer is no good. SomeRandomUnknownNewsSite.info is no good either. The New York Times or Washington Post or AP or your local paper are all much better.

Extremely Bias sources

Almost everything is bias. But it is a matter of degrees. The more bias, the less credible. The New York Times is more credible than moveon.org. The Washington Post is more credible than the drudge report. Pundits and political hacks rarely provide information that is not distorted. Anything from Bill O or M. Moore should be investigated further.

Research institutes

Sounds credible. And sometimes they are. But be aware of who funds them and what bias they hold. The American Heritage Foundation, for example, is a conservative group. It does not mean that everything they come out with is illegitimate. But it does mean we need to be careful when we concede or defend a point based on data from such organizations.

Experts and people with credentials

Not all experts are really experts. Not all people with credentials have good or relevant credentials. An expertise in one area does not lend credibility to me in another. Just because Nancy Grace and other cable news programs invite me on and put me forward as an expert does not make me a true expert. Cable news people have to fill up air time 24 hours per day, 7 days per week. We are all likely to be on cable "news" eventually.

If I claim to have a Masters Degree in some field, the first question should be "from where?". The second question should be, is the field relevant to the subject at hand. And note that even if I have a Masters from Harvard in toilet paper design, that does not mean that all my statements about toilet paper design are valid.

Polls

Any poll that starts with "this is not a scientific poll" is worthless. And most polls we see printed in papers and spewed across TV land are such polls and thus just more fodder to help fill up the insatiable mediaverse.

Furthermore, be careful about what the poll is actually revealing. Most of the time it is only revealing the attitudes or opinions of the respondents.

"90% of the people polled say George Bush is a jackass."

1 month later and a few wind changes:
"75% of the people polled say George Bush, although a jackass, is a hell of a nice guy"

I mean, really. Who cares?

"4 out of 5 dentist who have patients that chew gum, say George Bush is a jackass."

Statistics and causal inferences

Everyone loves statistics because they seem so legit. Statistics from sources that are not credible, are themselves not credible. If a source claims their statistics come from the FBI Uniform Crime Report, go to the FBI uniform crime report and verify.

What happens often is that the source in question manipulates the stats, takes them out of context, or flat out lies about them.

Furthermore, often foolish errors are made in the collection of the data and the methodology of the research on which the statistics are based. Even by competent unbiased experts. So, Ann Coulter’s "research" on media bias based on text searches of the lexus-nexus database just doesn't cut it.

Lastly, even if statistics are legitimate, be very careful of the conclusions you draw from these statistics. It is very easy to make assumptions about causation that are just not true and are unsupported by the data. What makes it worse, is that there are many unscrupulous individuals and political operatives and all around nut cases who understand this failing all to well and are more than happy to exploit it.

Example:

"Blacks have a higher percentage of high school drop outs than whites."

source:http://nces.ed.gov/pubs2002/droppub_2001/

Racists, for example, love statements like the above. But when you check this against income, you find another prevailing factor. Blacks have a higher rate of poverty, and so therefore have a higher drop out rate.

lily
01-07-2007, 11:23 PM
Very well written, wondercow. The only problem is, I think people that actually do go to the trouble to provide a link, think that what they are providing is always right. Good guidlines.

ECW
01-08-2007, 01:51 AM
You're a pretty damn smart cow, for an independent...

Nice job.

wonder cow
01-08-2007, 02:03 PM
Thanks guys. Just trying to do my part.

ECW
01-08-2007, 04:36 PM
It goes without saying that if you post something here that does not have any citations attached to it (regardless how reliable those sources may be) it is an opinion and nothing more.

Viper2
01-09-2007, 06:13 PM
Although I may disagree with you on some threads, you have IMHO presented a very well thought out and written piece.

The only problem I see is, that a lot of times people tend to attack a source as a poor one, etc., and fail to adequately discredit the content.

If say I were to use "townhall" you might out of personal preference not want to accept the article because in your opinion it might be a "poor" one, or perhaps a biased one. However, the information contained within is reasonably credible and accurate.

Now, you do refer to the New York Times in a favorable light - however, being honest, they are slanted Liberal and Left-Wing. So, going by your criteron, their articles could be questionable as well.

In-any-case, thank you for your post - it is food for thought, and a good reference to be consulted periodically.

Viper2
01-09-2007, 06:15 PM
It goes without saying that if you post something here that does not have any citations attached to it (regardless how reliable those sources may be) it is an opinion and nothing more.


I agree with you totally - this is why I attempt to clarify my posts by saying IMHO, I would conclude, etc.

Flea_Bit_Monkey
01-09-2007, 06:32 PM
This is all just common sense that everyone here should already know.

Nemo
01-09-2007, 08:57 PM
I think it a good piece.Â*Â*One should always question one's own assumptions.Â*Â*(An old army sergeant once told me that "[A]n assumption is the mother of all fuck-ups.")

Viper2
01-10-2007, 10:33 PM
I think it a good piece.Â*Â*One should always question one's own assumptions.Â*Â*(An old army sergeant once told me that "[A]n assumption is the mother of all fuck-ups.")


On my first duty assignment in the Air Force - Security for Nuke storage in England, my NCOIC said that to assume makes an ass-u-me.

wonder cow
01-11-2007, 04:58 AM
you have IMHO presented a very well thought out and written piece.

Thank you.

Now, you do refer to the New York Times in a favorable light - however, being honest, they are slanted Liberal and Left-Wing. So, going by your criteron, their articles could be questionable as well.

True. I should have been more clear about that. I tried to explain it this way:


Almost everything is bias. But it is a matter of degrees. The more bias, the less credible. The New York Times is more credible than moveon.org. The Washington Post is more credible than the drudge report.

Viper2
01-12-2007, 05:12 PM
wonder cow:
Almost everything is bias. But it is a matter of degrees. The more bias, the less credible. The New York Times is more credible than moveon.org. The Washington Post is more credible than the drudge report.

True in using the comparisons as you did - however, at times it's like picking on the "lesser" of two evils.

Anyway, thanks for the info, it is helpful.

Professor
01-13-2007, 02:13 PM
Thanks Wonder Cow, that stuff was really informative. It's always good to have stuff like that in print.