I don't know about anyone else......

[lily]

......but I'm getting more than a little tired of every thread that starts out decent being hyjacked by Flea, throwing in a strawman argument, then ECW and Elrathin feeding it, for pages at a time.

How in God's name did it get this far and more important, what are WE going to do about it?


........or is it just me?

[BoogyMan]

Buck and stoner get in there and egg it on pretty well also.

I have been trying to put mod notices in but that just seems to stop the debate cold and that isn't what we want.

[AlonzoMourning23]

I'm getting tired of the "Hey, look at me!" threads. Chess whining about every little thing (I keep deleting my own posts! What the hell is wrong you people!), and flea's "give me negs" and other attention drawing things.

[lily]

Then it's not just me being a bitch? Whew!

Are things getting out of control or is it that we now have more posters? I know I was happy when Cocky said he was going to post again. His reson for leaving other forums I've been on was the out of control conversations. I see he's logged in, but hasn't posted. I also invited someone named freespirit, who used to post at another forum and left because of the pettyness. I see she signed up, but never activated.

Oh.....just so it doesn't seem like I'm stacking the board. Cocky is a Republican and free is a Democrat.;)

[AlonzoMourning23]

Well, talking about the recent complaining, now I've got an issue with elrathin.


It's about posts 122-126 http://www.democracyforums.com/showthread.php?tid=2669&pid=31438#pid31438

Any suggestions?

[lily]

If I had my way, I'd delete them all. But we were told not to delete or edit. Hell, I'll go lock it, like I did the last one they ruined.

Edited to add. ECW better stick to what he said that he is now going to ignore Flea. I've been telling him and Elrathin for days to do it.

[BoogyMan]

I asked about baiting before and we were told baiting is not prohibited, but Flea is pushing things pretty far and in this case the baiting is causing real problems.

Just my 2 cents worth.

[AlonzoMourning23]

Excessive baiting needs restrictions. Baiting itself is fine and can be amusing in small doses, but not to this level.

[BoogyMan]

Flea just reported a post in the thread Lily just closed. At this point since we know he is posting for no other reason than to cause problems on the forums can we warn him each time he posts in such fashion?

[AlonzoMourning23]

I'd wait for labrocca.

[lily]

I am having a moral decision here. I do not believe in posting PMs. I know I've stated that more than once, even though I have permission from Elrathin to do it.

I have the PMs sent to me, both by Elrathin and Popwing that state they are leaving and not coming back. Popwing will come back, when the ignore feature is working, because of Flea. Elrathin said he will check in and when and if Flea is under control, he will think about coming back.

[BoogyMan]

Flea has done his "I've gone liberal" act in nearly every current thread.

[Labrocca]

Elrathin imho is an instigator for personal attacks.Â*Â*I may step up and fixed the ignore feature myself.Â*Â*It's a few hours of coding most likely.Â*Â*FBM isn't breaking any rules.Â*Â*Yeah..he is being obnoxious but hey that's 90% of our regular posters in my view.Â*Â*Do you best to keep peace and make sure rules are enforced.

We are a site with multiple views.Â*Â*It's sad that people want to debate only with those that agree.Â*Â*Seriously...we have a handful of members that should just post at forums which support their views and ban others. However this site won't do that.Â*Â*My goal is to have open civil debate on all topics.Â*Â*Just keep that in mind. If people can't handle that..they can leave.Â*Â*

Yeah..maybe tomorrow I will get ignore featured fixed.

[lily]

I will email Popwing when the ignore feature is working again. As for Elrathin, I know it takes two to tango, but I also think he has a legitimate gripe. Flea will take anything and twist it around to say something totally different.

Seriously...we have a handful of members that should just post at forums which support their views and ban others. However this site won't do that.

That is not what I'm asking. I'm asking for suggestions on how to handle the situation.

[Nitrus]

I have starting warning those involved for off-topic posting. I wont warn if its a couple of posts, but if its past a page then they will get warned.

[Labrocca]

Well Lily...the way I see it is that we can't please all the people all the time. In essence those with complaints may have to just leave. If they can't handle another member here in way acceptable to the rules what else can we do?

I am really hoping when I fix the ignore feature it will help to quelch some of the unrest.

[lily]

Just to let you know, Labrocca......you've been had. The warning you gave to
Elrathin was first reported AFTER I locked the thread and told them all to
stop. Then, not getting the outcome Flea wished, he then re-reported the
post and got what he wanted.

I'm going to miss Elrathin, but it's your decision. I know it seems like I
am "taking sides" of the people I have invited here, but I try my darndest
to smooth feathers in PMs and convince people to stay, I've never told
anyone goodbye. I won't miss you. I've taken complaints from posters I've
invited and from posters I haven't. From posters that I've given warning to,
as I'm sure every mod here has and has tried to talk them into staying.

If you prefer the posting style of Flea over Elrathin and ECW, then I guess
you see something in his nonsensical trolling, word twisting and hijacking
threads that I don't.

I started this thread to get feedback on getting some control over the
problem and how to handle it. If the way to handle it is to let posters
leave and let others run amok, then that's what I'll do. I'll follow
Nitrus's lead and give out warnings if they go off topic for pages at a time and follow the rules to a T.

[Labrocca]

I am just getting fed up with the fighting between members and people using the fact they are leaving as some sort of threat. At this point people PMing me saying they are leaving because of some other member isn't going to get coddled. If a person isn't mature enough to be part of a debate forums then let them be on their merry way. I said this recently but I feel a few members here really don't want to debate...they want people to just agree with them. They should find a one-sided site if that's the case. It's not my goal to have this site a liberal or neo-con site. It's a forums for open civil debate.

I don't want ANY member to leave. However members will leave. The way the forums has been this week..I really don't feel like begging people that are part of the problem to stay.

[Labrocca]

I want staff permission to move this thread into "site news and feedback" just so members are aware of our attitudes lately and the awareness we have about the problem. IMHO this problem involves more than the staff and maybe it's time to air some dirty laundry.

[lily]

Works for me. Frankly I'm tired of the whole situation.

[Labrocca]

Nitrus? Boogy? Zo?

[lily]

I said this recently but I feel a few members here really don't want to debate...they want people to just agree with them. They should find a one-sided site if that's the case.

I know I should just let this go, but I can't. I don't think anyone here wants that, in fact I've been told just the opposite. No one wants their words twisted and no one wants every thread turned into a pissing contest.

If people would only realize that they are going to get responded to in the same tone that they were addressed, they wouldn't do half the things they do.

[Labrocca]

Twisting words is a viable political tactic used on ALL sides. It's in campaign ads every election. Yeah...you don't want your words twisted but anything you say CAN and WILL be used against you.

Also TONE is something you can expect to be nasty at times in a debate site.

For argument sake...I would like to hear how you would word a rule to curb the current situation.

[AlonzoMourning23]

Nitrus?Â*Â*Boogy?Â*Â*Zo?


Go ahead.

[BoogyMan]

I am good with it.

[lily]

For argument sake...I would like to hear how you would word a rule to curb the current situation.


I don't know..........that's why I started this thread. I don't thik we need more rules. A PM from the owner goes a long way and that's for ALL involved.

[Nitrus]

Im all for it. Itll show them that it is an issue that needs to be addressed.

[lily]

I've recieved a few PMs on this subject. I've urged the people to post frankly on this thread. Things said are to help make this forum better, not to be mean or insuling, but to be frank and honest. Some people's feelings might get hurt, but this is a rare opportunity to make this forum better and the way the posters want it to be in the future, because without the posters on this forum, we wouldn't be here.

I think we moderators need to just step back and let the posters tell us what they want and what they expect of us.

[Labrocca]

I think we moderators need to just step back and let the posters tell us what they want and what they expect of us.


That's why I moved this from the staff are into the open. I wanted to get input from members. However it doesn't appear that members have the spine or willingness to make this site a better place. It's kind of pathetic really. We lost a couple regular members this week and we may lose more simply because people can't be civil. I am rather disheartened over the matter. We had a great few days of debate then when it became a bit heated people went over the deep end.

At this point I feel like the little boy with the finger in the dike.

[Flea_Bit_Monkey]

......but I'm getting more than a little tired of every thread that starts out decent being hyjacked by Flea, throwing in a strawman argument, then ECW and Elrathin feeding it, for pages at a time.

How in God's name did it get this far and more important, what are WE going to do about it?


........or is it just me?


Could you be specific about strawman arguments I've used?

I've actually tried to model my posting more after ECW, your feedback toward him seems to approve of his posting style and tactics, right?

[Labrocca]

Check the date this thread was started. It was begun a few days ago BEFORE you changed your style to "Monkey Mockery".

[Flea_Bit_Monkey]

But I was still using the tactics ECW used. Lily approved posting style, if you are a liberal.

If the thread had been made public then, I wouldn't have had to take it further to make my point.

[ECW]

As the most partisan bastard here, I want to extend my apologies to Labrocca for laying it on a bit thick the last few days. You could blame it on partisan giddyness because of the change in power, the desire to cyber-bitchslap the neo-con smugness that has almost ruined this great country or the desire to have the last word about everything. Ultimately, the blame is mine and mine alone and I take full responsibility for skewing the Forum and for any difficulties I may have caused the Mods, senior staff or you by my behavior. I do not apologize for my partisanship because that is who I am not only here but in real life but I will make every effort to curtail the nastiness while I am here posting. The Ignore feature will greatly assist in dealing with that situation and I thank you for installing it.

Again, please accept my apologies for any trouble I may have caused.

[Stoner]

Buck and stoner get in there and egg it on pretty well also.



Dude, I'm famous http://www.freesmileys.org/emo/ad/party.gif (http://www.freesmileys.org)

[wonder cow]

IMO, we are being a little sensitive. It would be nice to have some serious threads on real issues about government and policy, etc., but all forums will have a good bit of flaming, trolling and such.

If people feel strongly enough about politics to create an account and post some, they will feel strongly enough to lash out from time to time.

[Nemo]

There is a lack of civility of late.Â*Â*In politics, in particular, people have become so polemic and so partisan that there is no place for argument anymore.Â*Â*The opposing party has become “the enemy.â€�Â*Â*One cannot even agree to disagree for there is no tolerance for opposing views.Â*Â*It is a sad state of affairs when people can no longer even talk to each other without coming to blows. But perhaps it has always been that way. One of Octavian’s first acts as Triumvir was to add his friend, and mentor, Cicero to the proscription lists to appease Antony, who had Cicero’s head and hands mounted on the Senate Rostra in the Forum Romanum. (A high price to pay for his Philippics!)Â*Â*And, in our own history, Alexander Hamilton might have lived to be President had he been more civil in his dealings with Aaron Burr.

[CheesyMuslim]

Sorry bout that,

1. But hello I'm here,........
2. Am I supposed to be able to see this thread folks?
3. Look what the cat dragged in,..Hehehehehehe,.....
4. Hey I don't whine, anyway not much!!!!!!!!!!
5. Flea has seen a change, wonder if he's been smoking pot?
6. Anyway, Flea knows what he is doing.
7. He's turned the tables on some liberals, who cant stand it.
8. He's winning now!,...Hehehehehehe,.........
9. Note: My post was posted after reading first page folks. Heheheheheheheh,.....

Regards,
SirJamesofTexas

[Cobra]

This stuff is always going to happen, people will leave. I don't leave boards so no worries here though if I do get bored I might float away coming less and less often.

I think ECW and flea and Elrathin, and everyone else mentioned are acting like people always act on boards like these when they start to get big. The mods are doing a pretty good job of controlling it here. I don't have any suggestions short of picking a side and banning one side to stop it or deleting lots of posts which will just piss people off and make them leave. That's just how political boards like these go, or so far as I can tell.

[Labrocca]

IMO, we are being a little sensitive. It would be nice to have some serious threads on real issues about government and policy, etc., but all forums will have a good bit of flaming, trolling and such.

If people feel strongly enough about politics to create an account and post some, they will feel strongly enough to lash out from time to time.



I 100% agree. Fortunately it's finally calming down but not until a couple members took off and I added an extra ignore feature on the site. Drama is always going to pop up. However it creates a lot of work on the staff. I have seen forums implode from these types of drama where it's not fizzled out quick enough. It's stressful for everyone involved.

[Professor]

I think a large part of the problem is the volume of opinion threads in debate areas. If you look in the religion forum you'll see it's littered with threads started with a statement/opinion clearly meant to insult and get a reaction. I'll be blunt; Some of you Gawd don't want?

I do think part of the problem is that there are more members therefore more people, more friction, more problems. Perhaps there shouldn't be automatic membership, but have them fill out a questionnaire telling us their political views and write a short opinion piece. Everyone would still be accepted, but it might help weed out some people who join just to post once, because now they would have to put actual thought and work into it. I also think adding 2-3 mods would help.

I also think people need to be more tolerant of what is being said to them and more tolerant when they post. I'll be biblical, be slow to anger and quick to forgive.

I do want to give ECW props for apologizing right away. That was very big of him and showed a classic example of what is needed to fix the problem.

[Labrocca]

It's not the people that post once that create problems...it's regular members that feel comfortable enough to say what they want.

Anyways...it seems to have chilled out a lot around here so let's get back to debating some topics.

I am locking this for now.