five seconds of video everyone needs to watch

[operator kos]

WTF? (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5653955826753385916&q=WTC7)

[Thirdparty]

WTF? (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5653955826753385916&q=WTC7)


So, the falling debris caused the third building to fall. We all knew that. What is the point of the video?

[BoogyMan]

Hi 3P, if you check out his site as posted in his sig, he is a 9/11 conspiracy theorist.

[underdawg]

It is a bit strange that falling debris would bring down the third building. I thought it was the heat from the extreme temps of burning jet fuel that brought down the first two? The only conspiracy that I thought might have happened was that Bush knew something was up , but decided to just let it happen.

[BoogyMan]

SOURCE: Link Here (http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/military_law/1227842.html?page=5)

...
Many conspiracy theorists point to FEMA's preliminary report, which said there was relatively light damage to WTC 7 prior to its collapse. With the benefit of more time and resources, NIST researchers now support the working hypothesis that WTC 7 was far more compromised by falling debris than the FEMA report indicated. "The most important thing we found was that there was, in fact, physical damage to the south face of building 7," NIST's Sunder tells PM. "On about a third of the face to the center and to the bottom--approximately 10 stories--about 25 percent of the depth of the building was scooped out." NIST also discovered previously undocumented damage to WTC 7's upper stories and its southwest corner.

NIST investigators believe a combination of intense fire and severe structural damage contributed to the collapse, though assigning the exact proportion requires more research. But NIST's analysis suggests the fall of WTC 7 was an example of "progressive collapse," a process in which the failure of parts of a structure ultimately creates strains that cause the entire building to come down. Videos of the fall of WTC 7 show cracks, or "kinks," in the building's facade just before the two penthouses disappeared into the structure, one after the other. The entire building fell in on itself, with the slumping east side of the structure pulling down the west side in a diagonal collapse.

According to NIST, there was one primary reason for the building's failure: In an unusual design, the columns near the visible kinks were carrying exceptionally large loads, roughly 2000 sq. ft. of floor area for each floor. "What our preliminary analysis has shown is that if you take out just one column on one of the lower floors," Sunder notes, "it could cause a vertical progression of collapse so that the entire section comes down."

There are two other possible contributing factors still under investigation: First, trusses on the fifth and seventh floors were designed to transfer loads from one set of columns to another. With columns on the south face apparently damaged, high stresses would likely have been communicated to columns on the building's other faces, thereby exceeding their load-bearing capacities.

Second, a fifth-floor fire burned for up to 7 hours. "There was no firefighting in WTC 7," Sunder says. Investigators believe the fire was fed by tanks of diesel fuel that many tenants used to run emergency generators. Most tanks throughout the building were fairly small, but a generator on the fifth floor was connected to a large tank in the basement via a pressurized line. Says Sunder: "Our current working hypothesis is that this pressurized line was supplying fuel [to the fire] for a long period of time."
...

[operator kos]

ho hum... the popular mechanics article is a yawn a minute. I'm quite familiar with it, and skimmed it again now just for a laugh. I have to roll my eyes every time someone brings up their "proofs" which debunk the 9/11 Truth Movement. Their main tactic is to address ridiculous claims that have been promoted by a few loonies and act as if these represent the movement as a whole. Regarding WTC7 they claim massive damage to the south face of the building for which there is absolutely no corroborating evidence. They conveniently forget to mention the two most damning facts about WTC7, even though both are heavily documented and admitted to: 1) streams of yellow-hot molten metal in the wreckage, and 2) widespread chemical traces consistent with the incendiary thermate.

[BoogyMan]

I would guess that you mean Thermite, not thermate.

Read: http://wtc.nist.gov/

[Stoner]

Does Kos believe in Bigfoot?

[operator kos]

I would guess that you mean Thermite, not thermate.

Read: http://wtc.nist.gov/


You guess incorrectly. Look it up, then get back to me when you can explain the widespread chemical traces like I mentioned, which are referenced in Appendix C of the FEMA report.

[operator kos]

Does Kos believe in Bigfoot?


Do you believe in your ability to debate anything I've actually said?

[Stoner]

Do you believe in your ability to debate anything I've actually said?


You mean like you did when BoogyMan showed you that article from PM and you replied with, "ho hum... the popular mechanics article is a yawn a minute"?

Besides, you haven't posted anything worthy of being debated.Â*Â*Post something concrete and we'll talk. In the meantime my hookah is calling my name.

[BoogyMan]

I would guess that you mean Thermite, not thermate.

Read: http://wtc.nist.gov/


You guess incorrectly.Â*Â*Look it up, then get back to me when you can explain the widespread chemical traces like I mentioned, which are referenced in Appendix C of the FEMA report.


I see that thermite is a component of Thermate. I learned something today even in a conspiracy thread.


SOURCE: Link Here (http://wtc.nist.gov/pubs/factsheets/faqs_8_2006.htm)

...
2. Why did NIST not consider a “controlled demolition� hypothesis with matching computer modeling and explanation as it did for the “pancake theory� hypothesis? A key critique of NIST’s work lies in the complete lack of analysis supporting a “progressive collapse� after the point of collapse initiation and the lack of consideration given to a controlled demolition hypothesis.

NIST conducted an extremely thorough three-year investigation into what caused the WTC towers to collapse, as explained in NIST’s dedicated Web site, http://wtc.nist.gov. This included consideration of a number of hypotheses for the collapses of the towers.

Some 200 technical experts—including about 85 career NIST experts and 125 leading experts from the private sector and academia—reviewed tens of thousands of documents, interviewed more than 1,000 people, reviewed 7,000 segments of video footage and 7,000 photographs, analyzed 236 pieces of steel from the wreckage, performed laboratory tests and sophisticated computer simulations of the sequence of events that occurred from the moment the aircraft struck the towers until they began to collapse.

Based on this comprehensive investigation, NIST concluded that the WTC towers collapsed because: (1) the impact of the planes severed and damaged support columns, dislodged fireproofing insulation coating the steel floor trusses and steel columns, and widely dispersed jet fuel over multiple floors; and (2) the subsequent unusually large jet-fuel ignited multi-floor fires (which reached temperatures as high as 1,000 degrees Celsius) significantly weakened the floors and columns with dislodged fireproofing to the point where floors sagged and pulled inward on the perimeter columns. This led to the inward bowing of the perimeter columns and failure of the south face of WTC 1 and the east face of WTC 2, initiating the collapse of each of the towers. Both photographic and video evidence—as well as accounts from the New York Police Department aviation unit during a half-hour period prior to collapse—support this sequence for each tower.

NIST’s findings do not support the “pancake theory� of collapse, which is premised on a progressive failure of the floor systems in the WTC towers (the composite floor system—that connected the core columns and the perimeter columns—consisted of a grid of steel “trusses� integrated with a concrete slab; see diagram below). Instead, the NIST investigation showed conclusively that the failure of the inwardly bowed perimeter columns initiated collapse and that the occurrence of this inward bowing required the sagging floors to remain connected to the columns and pull the columns inwards. Thus, the floors did not fail progressively to cause a pancaking phenomenon.

[operator kos]

Do you believe in your ability to debate anything I've actually said?


You mean like you did when BoogyMan showed you that article from PM and you replied with, "ho hum... the popular mechanics article is a yawn a minute"?

Besides, you haven't posted anything worthy of being debated. Post something concrete and we'll talk. In the meantime my hookah is calling my name.


You were clearly too stoned to read to the end of my post, so I'll say it again. Please explain:

1) widespread chemical traces consistent with thermate which Appendix C of the FEMA report admits to finding, and admits that they have no explanation for
2) numerous eye-witness accounts and video footage of streams of yellow-orange molten metal

[operator kos]

BoogyMan, your quote from NIST refers to the Twin Towers, not WTC7 which is what I'm talking about.

[BoogyMan]

BoogyMan, your quote from NIST refers to the Twin Towers, not WTC7 which is what I'm talking about.


I am aware of that but I posted it in order to get the qualifications of the assessors in front of the forum.


Some 200 technical experts—including about 85 career NIST experts and 125 leading experts from the private sector and academia—reviewed tens of thousands of documents, interviewed more than 1,000 people, reviewed 7,000 segments of video footage and 7,000 photographs, analyzed 236 pieces of steel from the wreckage, performed laboratory tests and sophisticated computer simulations of the sequence of events that occurred from the moment the aircraft struck the towers until they began to collapse.

Thus establishing the credibility of the NIST findings and the credibility of the study as a whole.

[Labrocca]

For something that is suppose to be such a large and vast conspiracy they seemed to have made a million errors. Also how come no one has come forward with ANY evidence of a conspiracy. Whenever something is unknown that doesn't mean it's a conspiracy. Unknown is simply that...unknown. Theories and guesses aren't facts.

[Thirdparty]

Hi 3P, if you check out his site as posted in his sig, he is a 9/11 conspiracy theorist.



Yeah , I checked out his site. Very, very odd that anyone buys this . But hey, I just saw Elvis on the grassy knoll with bigfoot and the lochness monster, so maybe.....................:cool:

[operator kos]

BoogyMan, your quote from NIST refers to the Twin Towers, not WTC7 which is what I'm talking about.


I am aware of that but I posted it in order to get the qualifications of the assessors in front of the forum...

Thus establishing the credibility of the NIST findings and the credibility of the study as a whole.


Fine. But NIST has completed their report on the twin towers. They have not completed a report on WTC7. The FEMA report on WTC7 has no explanation for the facts I have repeatedly mentioned, and I doubt NIST will come up with one either. The 9/11 Commission Report completely avoided mentioning the collapse of WTC7 because its direction was ultimately controlled by just one man- Phil Zelikow. You can have all the experts in the world, but they aren't going to get to the bottom of anything if the right questions aren't being asked. So far the NIST report on WTC7 looks to be another cover-up, as their experts have thusfar been tasked with explaining how the building failed between floors 8 and 46 of the 47 story building.

[operator kos]

For something that is suppose to be such a large and vast conspiracy they seemed to have made a million errors. Also how come no one has come forward with ANY evidence of a conspiracy. Whenever something is unknown that doesn't mean it's a conspiracy. Unknown is simply that...unknown. Theories and guesses aren't facts.


Where to start?

1) It wasn't a large and vast conspiracy. I reckon there were around two dozen people who were in on the whole plot, and maybe another dozen or so operatives with compartmentalized knowledge who carried out specific tasks. This is about the same number of people cited in the government's conspiracy theory which names a number people from the Middle East and Central Asia.
2) While you'd never hear it on Faux news, numerous people have come forward with evidence of a conspiracy. Sibel Edmonds is one such intelilgence agent, who has had more government gag orders placed on her than anyone in history. A number of FBI agents are currently suing the federal government over the 9/11 cover-up. Congressional representatives from both major parties say there was a cover-up. Numerous high-ranking military personel say it was an inside job. A whole host of independent researchers and experts have uncovered a mountain of evidence pointing to a conspiracy. You'd know all of this if you took even an hour looking at http://www.911truth.org
3) Unknown is unknown. Indeed. But when people who have the power to answer pressing questions refuse to do so, it looks rather suspicious.

[Stoner]

1) It wasn't a large and vast conspiracy.Â*Â*I reckon there were around two dozen people who were in on the whole plot, and maybe another dozen or so operatives with compartmentalized knowledge who carried out specific tasks.Â*Â*This is about the same number of people cited in the government's conspiracy theory which names a number people from the Middle East and Central Asia.
2) While you'd never hear it on Faux news, numerous people have come forward with evidence of a conspiracy.Â*Â*Sibel Edmonds is one such intelilgence agent, who has had more government gag orders placed on her than anyone in history.Â*Â*A number of FBI agents are currently suing the federal government over the 9/11 cover-up.Â*Â*Congressional representatives from both major parties say there was a cover-up.Â*Â*Numerous high-ranking military personel say it was an inside job.Â*Â*A whole host of independent researchers and experts have uncovered a mountain of evidence pointing to a conspiracy.Â*Â*You'd know all of this if you took even an hour looking at http://www.911truth.org
3) Unknown is unknown.Â*Â*Indeed.Â*Â*But when people who have the power to answer pressing questions refuse to do so, it looks rather suspicious.


Can I buy some pot from you?

[operator kos]

Can I buy some pot from you?


I don't smoke pot. It makes you paranoid. :D

[Labrocca]

Where to start?

1) It wasn't a large and vast conspiracy.Â*Â*I reckon there were around two dozen people who were in on the whole plot, and maybe another dozen or so operatives with compartmentalized knowledge who carried out specific tasks.Â*Â*This is about the same number of people cited in the government's conspiracy theory which names a number people from the Middle East and Central Asia.
2) While you'd never hear it on Faux news, numerous people have come forward with evidence of a conspiracy.Â*Â*Sibel Edmonds is one such intelilgence agent, who has had more government gag orders placed on her than anyone in history.Â*Â*A number of FBI agents are currently suing the federal government over the 9/11 cover-up.Â*Â*Congressional representatives from both major parties say there was a cover-up.Â*Â*Numerous high-ranking military personel say it was an inside job.Â*Â*A whole host of independent researchers and experts have uncovered a mountain of evidence pointing to a conspiracy.Â*Â*You'd know all of this if you took even an hour looking at http://www.911truth.org
3) Unknown is unknown.Â*Â*Indeed.Â*Â*But when people who have the power to answer pressing questions refuse to do so, it looks rather suspicious.


I watched every conspiracy video out there. They are convincing in their presentation. However I don't believe it. Their proof in many cases is conjecture and paranoia. Take for example the plane hitting the pentagon. Have you seen the video on the jet fighter plane being demolished into dust after hitting a cement wall meant to take that type of hit. The same type of wall around the pentagon.

If there was this great conspiracy to do all this why can't they keep the consipiracy theorists shut up? Why was the 9/11 truth video even allowed to be made? Why didn't they kidnap or kill those exposing this conspiracy?

Sorry but it's hogwash...when I see the alien ship in Area 51 maybe I will believe it. Clinton was a so-called genious and he got caught lying about blowjob. Numerous politicians get busted for small petty things (hookers, drugs, bribes). Yet Bush who is supposedly a complete moron (opinion of the liberal left) has orchestrated the most complex conspiracy ever. HAHA...that's laughable. The man can't form a complete sentence most of the time but we should believe he conspired with a few dozen operatives to blow up the WTC?

So was the 1993 attack during the CLINTON administration orchestrated by Bush as well? Or was it Bush Sr and 9/11 was just Bush Jr finishing the job? What about the other terrorist attacks by Al-Qaeda?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Trade_Center_bombing

The WTC was a target for Al-Qaeda for some time. Maybe you should read up on the enemy.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Qaeda

[Stoner]

Conspiracy theories prey on the weak-minded and uneducated.

[Labrocca]

Conspiracy theories prey on the weak-minded and uneducated.


Conspiracy theorists are the weak-minded and uneducated.

[Flea_Bit_Monkey]

I think if you examine the events you will see who is really behind it. With republican power on the rise, the democrats needed something, and a war in Iraq was just the thing to turn the tide back in their favor.

Was such a war possible without the WTC attack? Not likely!

The clincher is that the WMD angle came from Tenet, a Clinton appointee, and Hillary Clinton voted for the war, as did all the "insider" democrats.

The democrat party blew up th WTC and falsified WMD data just to win in '06. It's clear as a virgins piss!

Another interesting fact is the WTC was built to collapse in that fashion, by David Rockefeller, Founder and Chairman of the Trilateral Commission! Clinton was also a member!

[operator kos]

I watched every conspiracy video out there. They are convincing in their presentation. However I don't believe it. Their proof in many cases is conjecture and paranoia. Take for example the plane hitting the pentagon. Have you seen the video on the jet fighter plane being demolished into dust after hitting a cement wall meant to take that type of hit. The same type of wall around the pentagon.

If there was this great conspiracy to do all this why can't they keep the consipiracy theorists shut up? Why was the 9/11 truth video even allowed to be made? Why didn't they kidnap or kill those exposing this conspiracy?

Sorry but it's hogwash...when I see the alien ship in Area 51 maybe I will believe it. Clinton was a so-called genious and he got caught lying about blowjob. Numerous politicians get busted for small petty things (hookers, drugs, bribes). Yet Bush who is supposedly a complete moron (opinion of the liberal left) has orchestrated the most complex conspiracy ever. HAHA...that's laughable. The man can't form a complete sentence most of the time but we should believe he conspired with a few dozen operatives to blow up the WTC?

So was the 1993 attack during the CLINTON administration orchestrated by Bush as well? Or was it Bush Sr and 9/11 was just Bush Jr finishing the job? What about the other terrorist attacks by Al-Qaeda?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Trade_Center_bombing

The WTC was a target for Al-Qaeda for some time. Maybe you should read up on the enemy.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Qaeda


Once again, I disagree with just about everything you've said, starting with the assumptions from which you are making your arguments. I thank you, however, for actually being willing to engage in a real argument.

Pentagon: Flight 77 did hit the Pentagon. I agree. This is a typical straw-man argument used to discredit the 9/11 Truth Movement as a whole. Because the no-plane argument appears in the most popular 9/11 movie Loose Change, people by and large think that it represents the views of most people in the movement, when the opposite is true. By and large we realize that Loose Change was made by a couple of kids who were earnest in their efforts but limited in their ability to do serious research, and that it was also one of the earliest 9/11 movies to be made. There are much better movies that have been made since then such as:

9/11 Press for Truth (http://video.google.com/videosearch?q=911+press+for+truth)
Terrorstorm (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=786048453686176230&q=terrorstorm)
911 Mysteries (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6708190071483512003&q=911+mysteries)
and Everybody's Gotta Learn Sometime (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8372366181300641663&q=everybody%27s+gotta+learn+sometime)

They can't keep the "conspiracy theorists" quiet for a pretty obvious reason... there's hundreds of millions of us. Some of the more prominent among us are subject to routine observation and intimidation, but have the courage to persist. Those who come from government positions can be silenced somewhat more effectively. I remind everyone again of Sibel Edmonds, who has had more government gag orders placed on her than anyone in history.

Even you have to bring something like Area 51 into this. "Conspiracy Theory" has successfully been turned into a slander, but if you actually consider the term, it does not mean crazy or unsupported speculation about aliens, bigfoot, or anything else.

The Clintons and the Bushes are best buddies. Among other crimes he commited, Clinton is responsible for half a million Iraqi deaths during his presidency. He was more than happy to be investigated for a blowjob considering all the other things he could have been investigated for.

Bush is not a moron. Even if you insist that he is, it is clear that the people around him and very intelligent- Wolfowitz, Zakheim, Perle, etc.

The 93 WTC bombing was also an inside job. Emad Salem was an FBI informant who thought he was participating in a sting operation until the FBI gave him real explosives. Concerned, he called his superiors in the Bureau and secretly recorded the head of the FBI in New York ordering him to let the bombing take place. A few reporters took note of this, but no investigations or prosecutions followed, and the matter was soon forgotten. People deep in the intelligence and military communities don't disappear every time an administration changes.

Some Al-CIA-duh attacks are carried out by useful idiots who are desperate fanatics. Many others are carried out by operatives which western intelligence services have had in place since Day 1. If you want to start a separate thread about it, I'll be happy to provide numerous examples with links and references.

Well, I think that about covers all of your points. The gauntlet I've thrown about WTC7 has yet to be answered.

[Elrathin]

Conspiracy theorists are the weak-minded and uneducated.


Yep the same type of conspiracy theorists that believed Iraq had WMD.

[BoogyMan]

Conspiracy theorists are the weak-minded and uneducated.


Yep the same type of conspiracy theorists that believed Iraq had WMD.


I guess that includes several governments and intelligence agencies El.
Including the US, Israel, and Britain. I know that doesn't fit your desire to squash the fact that we were not alone, but oh well!

This whole thread can be placed into the same class as the evil faces in the smoke from 9/11 and other nutty claims.

[Stoner]

I guess that includes several governments and intelligence agencies El.


Not to mention practically every notable democrat.

[Labrocca]

The gauntlet I've thrown about WTC7 has yet to be answered.

What gauntlet? What exactly are you referring to? That video...? It doesn't say much to me. It's just a collapse of the building.

I will say that you aren't your average conspiracy theorist and kudos to you. Now let's just say you are right for 1 minute. Now what? Do we rise up and revolt? Sometimes the truth isn't important. It's like the matrix...do you take the blue pill or the red one? It's discomforting to believe that our government is involved in mass conspiracy to start war, kill it's own citizens, take away our rights, and on and on. Who the fuck wants to believe that? Personally...I would stay in the matrix and go about my life.

[underdawg]

The weapons of mass destruction was a really big conspiracy theory no different from WTC7. The only difference was that the president sold it to us like a snake oil salesman and the American people bought it. I wouldn't exactly say that Bush was weak minded and uneducated, but the people who bought into his lies were.

[operator kos]

The gauntlet I've thrown about WTC7 has yet to be answered.

What gauntlet? What exactly are you referring to? That video...? It doesn't say much to me. It's just a collapse of the building.

I will say that you aren't your average conspiracy theorist and kudos to you. Now let's just say you are right for 1 minute. Now what? Do we rise up and revolt? Sometimes the truth isn't important. It's like the matrix...do you take the blue pill or the red one? It's discomforting to believe that our government is involved in mass conspiracy to start war, kill it's own citizens, take away our rights, and on and on. Who the fuck wants to believe that? Personally...I would stay in the matrix and go about my life.


My challenge about WTC7, once again, is this: provide a reasonable explanation other than controlled demolition to explain a) streams of yellow-orange molten metal attested to by extensive eyewitness and video evidence, and b) widespread sulfidation of the beams, which the FEMA report acknowledges but cannot account for.

I think that if you got to know more people in the 9/11 Truth Movement, you would find that they are like me, reasonable people with reasonable questions. There are some tinfoil-hat types pushing ridiculous theories, but they are a small minority, and there are some enthusiastic but misinformed kids, but you can't expect to be able to debate them like Rhodes Scholars. The Movement is becoming more refined and mature ever year. I was never into "conspiracy theories" before I was finally convinced to look into 9/11, because I saw enough overt evil stuff going on in the world to concern myself with. But when I did start to investigate 9/11, I quickly saw that there is a substantial body of hard evidence pointing to a cover-up of complicity on the part of people in this government.

You mention those choice given to Neo in the Matrix, but the Wachowski brothers' next film V for Vendetta provides us with an even less thinly veiled allegory. Upon discovering evidence that his own government had carried out terrorist attacks on England, Inspector Finch asks his partner, if our own government was responsible for all those deaths... would you really want to know?

You answer no, and I can understand that. The shift into this new world view was pretty traumatic for me. Admittedly, I never liked Bush, but coming to realize that he and his cronies would sacrifice 3,000 innocent Americans to further their political agenda and enrich the global super-elite was a whole new level of ruthlessness which put me on the verge of a nervous breakdown. The only way I've been able to come to terms with it is to be active, and to share what I've learned with as many people as I can.

I love the place I live. I think the Constitution and Bill of Rights provide for the just about the best form of government we could ever have in the modern world. I can't just sit back and watch what I love be destroyed, especially when I know that it's being destroyed because of a Big Lie. I don't want to see a bloody revolution, but I also don't want America to continue down the course which the neoconspirators have plotted for it. It is my deepest hope that if enough people realize the truth, we can make a relatively peaceful transition back to the principals upon which this country was founded.

Samuel Adams said the following, harsh but true to how I feel: "If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your council nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen."

[Thirdparty]

The weapons of mass destruction was a really big conspiracy theory no different from WTC7. The only difference was that the president sold it to us like a snake oil salesman and the American people bought it. I wouldn't exactly say that Bush was weak minded and uneducated, but the people who bought into his lies were.



Make sure you add the Mossad, MI5, and most intelligence agencies in the free world to your strange analogy. It doesn't wash. Bush may have been wrong, he may have had bad intel, you might even make a case he was following through for Dad, but to say he deliberatly lied, and he is on a par with the conspiracy theorists of 9/11 is not only disrespectful to the office of POTUS, but it is just plain wrong.

By the way, as a two time Iraq vet, I don's appreciate being called weak minded and uneducated. You must be hanging around Senator Kerry. Us stupid troops....................:rolleyes:

[underdawg]

I disagree, the WMD was just as much a conspiracy theory as any other. Just because the president tried to get us to buy it, doesn't make it different from any other conspiracy theory.

As far as being weak minded and uneducated, I was only quoting what Labrocca said about conspiracy theorists.

[Thirdparty]

I disagree, the WMD was just as much a conspiracy theory as any other. Just because the president tried to get us to buy it, doesn't make it different from any other conspiracy theory.

As far as being weak minded and uneducated, I was only quoting what Labrocca said about conspiracy theorists.


Fair enough on the second part. As stated, it was not only the PResident who bought into it, our buddies in the Mossad, IMHO the best intelligence service in the world, also bought it.

[Flea_Bit_Monkey]

Conspiracy theorists are the weak-minded and uneducated.


Yep the same type of conspiracy theorists that believed Iraq had WMD.


Yea, we all know all those dead kurds died of heart attacks at the same time, poison gas was not the cause!

WMD was a Clinton invention.

[Labrocca]

The shift into this new world view was pretty traumatic for me. Admittedly, I never liked Bush, but coming to realize that he and his cronies would sacrifice 3,000 innocent Americans to further their political agenda and enrich the global super-elite was a whole new level of ruthlessness which put me on the verge of a nervous breakdown. The only way I've been able to come to terms with it is to be active, and to share what I've learned with as many people as I can.

I admire anyones conviction for truth. However...I have 4 kids and enough to concern myself. Heck these forums and many posts I deal with are stressful enough without taking on a government conspiracy to boot. Realistically if 9/11 was a conspiracy by our government...they have enough power to manipulate ANYTHING. The few people who know the truth and attempt to fight imho won't gain anything. If they can rig 9/11...they can rig elections. If Bush is part of the conspiracy then so was Clinton imho. I just see that if this was a government conspiracy that it involves possibly hundreds of people many of whom are politicians.

Also again...let's say there is a conspiracy and it's exposed...then what? We elect other corrupt politicians with their agenda? Do we begin hanging our politicians? Do we elect a dictator? IMHO..most that are 9/11 conspiracy theorists disliked Bush and the GOP to begin with. You admit to disliking him to begin with. How comforted you must be to find others that believe he is evil as well.

[Thirdparty]

The shift into this new world view was pretty traumatic for me. Admittedly, I never liked Bush, but coming to realize that he and his cronies would sacrifice 3,000 innocent Americans to further their political agenda and enrich the global super-elite was a whole new level of ruthlessness which put me on the verge of a nervous breakdown. The only way I've been able to come to terms with it is to be active, and to share what I've learned with as many people as I can.

I admire anyones conviction for truth. However...I have 4 kids and enough to concern myself. Heck these forums and many posts I deal with are stressful enough without taking on a government conspiracy to boot. Realistically if 9/11 was a conspiracy by our government...they have enough power to manipulate ANYTHING. The few people who know the truth and attempt to fight imho won't gain anything. If they can rig 9/11...they can rig elections. If Bush is part of the conspiracy then so was Clinton imho. I just see that if this was a government conspiracy that it involves possibly hundreds of people many of whom are politicians.

Also again...let's say there is a conspiracy and it's exposed...then what? We elect other corrupt politicians with their agenda? Do we begin hanging our politicians? Do we elect a dictator? IMHO..most that are 9/11 conspiracy theorists disliked Bush and the GOP to begin with. You admit to disliking him to begin with. How comforted you must be to find others that believe he is evil as well.




Well said, Labrocca.

Basically , the same folks who believed in the Trilateral Commission, One Worlders, etc have brought you this. September 11th, being the most horrific example of terrorism in modern times with extensive media coverage, just gives them more things to hang their hats on.

Do I believe that there are wealthy people who have a certain amount of control and power in this nation? Of course. Do I believe we need a viable third party? Yes, hence my name on DF. But I do believe our President would kill this many people in the name of whatever? No way.

Think about this....why would Bush , even if we said he might consider doing this , try it? If it was EVER found out, he would be the most disgraced President in history and tried for treason and executed to boot.

Also, for all you who forgot, conspiracy theoriests are equal opportunity when it comes to political parties. Remember the "Bill Clinton was a drug runner who killed all his politcal opponents " school of thought? The rumours of drugs in Arkansas small airports and him killing Vince Foster?

The loonies will always be with us...........

[Labrocca]

btw...I just started reading that popular mechanics article debunking MANY of the theorists evidence creating a conspiracy.

I was also there on 9/11. I witnessed first-hand the 2nd plane hitting from a very clear view on the Manhattan bridge.

[Stoner]

btw...I just started reading that popular mechanics article debunking MANY of the theorists evidence creating a conspiracy.Â*Â*



It's a tremendous read from an unbiased source.

[operator kos]

btw...I just started reading that popular mechanics article debunking MANY of the theorists evidence creating a conspiracy.



It's a tremendous read from an unbiased source.


...which completely fails to address the questions I've raised.

[Thirdparty]

btw...I just started reading that popular mechanics article debunking MANY of the theorists evidence creating a conspiracy.



It's a tremendous read from an unbiased source.


...which completely fails to address the questions I've raised.


Kos, they were asked and answered by Labrocca. Methinks you don't like the logical and well thought out answers.

[Nitrus]

Being a 9/11 and 7/7 conspirator, I have to say that I believe they blew WTC7. I dont care about fact, facts can be changed or masked. That is what I believe.

The owner of the World Trade Center (WTC7 inc.), bought insurance for the complex, specifically terrorist attacks. He got very rich from 9/11. Like others.

[operator kos]

btw...I just started reading that popular mechanics article debunking MANY of the theorists evidence creating a conspiracy.



It's a tremendous read from an unbiased source.


...which completely fails to address the questions I've raised.


Kos, they were asked and answered by Labrocca. Methinks you don't like the logical and well thought out answers.


No, they weren't. How many times do I have to repeat myself? Someone please give me an explanation other than controlled demolition for:
1) widespread chemical traces consistent with thermate which Appendix C of the FEMA report admits to finding, and admits that they have no explanation for
2) numerous eye-witness accounts and video footage of streams of yellow-orange molten metal

[Stoner]

I dont care about fact

You don't mind if I hold on to that one, do you? http://planetsmilies.net/grinning-smiley-9505.gif (http://planetsmilies.net)

[Labrocca]

I am not a scientist so I can't make statements about chemicals in the area. As the 9/11 commission reported...they don't know the reason they were there. Unknown is unknown. I don't know if God doesn't exists...does that mean he must exist?

Do you think you know more than the 9/11 commission?

[operator kos]

Do you think you know more than the 9/11 commission?


I think the 9/11 commission knows a lot more than I do, and I'd like them to share that knowledge. They ought to be able to answer the questions I posed plus hundreds of others yet they refuse to do so. Questions raised by members of the victim's families were supposed to form the basis for the investigation, and yet 70% of these questions were ignored. The 9/11 Commission Report doesn't even *mention* the collapse of Building 7, as if the most remarkable engineering "failure" in the history of the world isn't worthy of note. Some of the commission members wanted to investigate much further, but were reigned in by the executive director Philip Zelikow, our modern-day Joseph Goebbels.

[Flea_Bit_Monkey]

Answer to the thermite/thermate myths


http://www.911myths.com/html/traces_of_thermate_at_the_wtc.html

http://www.911myths.com/WTCTHERM.pdf

[Labrocca]

Answer to the thermite/thermate myths


http://www.911myths.com/html/traces_of_thermate_at_the_wtc.html

http://www.911myths.com/WTCTHERM.pdf


Well there ya have it. Now what?

http://myspace-567.vo.llnwd.net/00384/76/59/384349567_l.jpg

[operator kos]

Dr. Jones was providing further evidence for something which had *already* been established by the FEMA report, which no one disputes.

[Nitrus]

I dont care about fact

You don't mind if I hold on to that one, do you? http://planetsmilies.net/grinning-smiley-9505.gif (http://planetsmilies.net)


Be my guest. :P

[jafar00]

It is a bit strange that falling debris would bring down the third building.


I thought WTC7 wasn't hit by any debris, or very little. By rights, WTC 4,5, and 6 should have been more likely to have collapsed since they were totally engulfed by fire and had large chunks taken out of them by the collapse of 1 and 2, but they were demolished later.
The more I read and watch about WTC7, the more I see it's demise as a smoking gun for the 9/11 truthers. No need to look at 1, and 2.
Then there is also the embarrassing thing with the BBC reporting on WTC 7's collapse as the building stood intact behind the head of the reporter. Doh! (http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/february2007/260207building7.htm)

[wonder cow]

This is all a bunch of ignorant b*llsh*t.

Let's see: 2 jets are caught on film slamming into the twin towers. Literally thousands of eye witnesses.

The scale of conspiracy would require cooperation between 1000's of individuals in various government agencies, the media, law enforcement, and private citizens all of which would have to faithfully maintain the conspiracy lo these 5 ½ years since 9/11.

In 1972, a handful of individuals were caught in a break in of the Watergate Hotel. The total number of people involved in this or had knowledge of this: certainly less than 20.

So here is Nixon, the single most powerful man in the world at the time, with political skill far greater than that of Bush, and in many ways much more underhanded than Bush, who is not even able to work around the problem of a lone security guard discovering this, nor able to shut the whole thing down with the DC police.

And in the end, all involved squawked like a bunch of chimps. People went to jail and Nixon lost the presidency.

Anyone who believes that a conspiracy of the scale of a 9/11 is even freaking possible, understands absolutely nothing about human nature and believe only what they want to believe.

So quote for me again all the mounds of so called "evidence" of the conspiracy. And enjoy your little game of make believe.

[Jaaaman]

Anyone who believes that a conspiracy of the scale of a 9/11 is even freaking possible, understands absolutely nothing about human nature and believe only what they want to believe.

So quote for me again all the mounds of so called "evidence" of the conspiracy. And enjoy your little game of make believe.


Amen! Great post! ;)