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Professor
12-17-2006, 12:36 AM
Source: http://www.cnn.com/2006/EDUCATION/12/13/harvard.religion.reut/index.html

Harvard drops religion course requirement

BOSTON, Massachusetts (Reuters) -- Harvard University said Wednesday it had dropped a controversial proposal that would have required all undergraduates to study religion as part of the biggest overhaul of its curriculum in three decades.

Efforts to revamp Harvard's curriculum, which has been criticized for focusing too narrowly on academic topics instead of real-life issues, have been in the works for three years.

A proposal for a "reason and faith" course requirement, which would have set Harvard apart from many other universities and made it unique among its peers in the elite Ivy League, was unveiled in a preliminary report in October.

"We have removed 'reason and faith' as a distinct category," a faculty task force said in a revised report, excepts of which were obtained by Reuters.

"Courses dealing with religion -- both those examining normative reasoning in a religious context and those engaging in a descriptive examination of the roles that religion plays today and has historically played -- can be readily accommodated in other categories," it said.

Harvard professor Louis Menand, who co-chaired the committee that drafted the plan, said religion competed with other, equally valid subjects.

"It is an important subject, but nationalism is an important subject, and race is an important subject and markets is an important subject," said Menand, whose book "The Metaphysical Club" won a Pulitzer Prize for history in 2002.

"If we are going to go to that level of specificity of what we require there are probably half a dozen other things that can compete with it. So we thought we had to bump up the subject descriptions to include more things than religion."

The task force comprising six professors and two students released the report to faculty last week. A final report will be presented in January to faculty, who have a chance to add suggestions and decide whether to implement the requirements.

"We feel we are pretty close to done and the faculty seems interested in what we have proposed," Menand said.

The proposals include a course requirement on "what it means to be a human being," which is expected to broadly cover a number of areas in the humanities. They also proposed two science courses among several other requirements.

These include a course examining the United States in context of the rest of the world and courses on global societies, cultural traditions, and human nature and the human condition.

The curriculum shake-up, the first major overhaul since Harvard formulated its current "core" course requirements in the 1970s, had been advanced by former Harvard President Lawrence Summers, who resigned his post in June after a faculty revolt over unrelated issues.

Course requirements at America's eight Ivy League schools vary widely, but if Harvard's proposal for a "faith and reason" requirement had been accepted it would have been the only one where a course in religion was required.

It would have also marked a nod to Harvard's roots as a school founded to train Puritan ministers 370 years ago.

Danoz
12-17-2006, 12:49 AM
This is good news indeed.

Professor
12-17-2006, 12:54 AM
I actually like the idea of a religion requirement. I think it would be good if students had to learn about the practices of different religions. It could help with these incidents of Muslims getting pulled off airplanes for praying.

I do that is what a religious requirement should be. A brief overall look at religion to help people function in society and have a basic knowledge of each others beliefs and practices which hopefully will foster respect and tolerance.

Buck Laser
12-17-2006, 06:01 PM
I agree with Professor. Not many people, perhaps especially believers, know enough about religion. There is a world of difference between teaching religious devotion and religious theory. Sometimes the most religiously illiterate people are the most fanatical devotees, as witness everyone's favorite "Conservative bible advisor." Similarly, religion's worst antagonists have little or no knowledge of the realities of religious belief and practice.

Newscaster
12-17-2006, 11:45 PM
Why, when there are so many different religions with a myriad of beliefs, must religion be a required course instead of an elective. There are those who have no interest whatsoever in religion. Why must they be saddled with such a course. Besides, there are countless religions based colleges and I dont mean places like Notre Dame or Catholic University or any of the big name schools. I mean the countless bible colleges that produce ordained ministers or counselors of whatever.
Why must a student who does not believe, spend big bucks and be required to take a course that cannot be proven?
Back in my undergraduate college days, I was required to take a course, a hyphenated course on the four Gospels. Matthew and Mark in the fall semester and Luke and John in the spring with liberal sprinkling of Paul all the way thru both. At first, it was interesting even though the pprofessor was a hard rock, fire and brimstone Southern Baptist and any time I challenged him about one point or another, he exploded, damning me to hell and threatening doomsday on the whole class if it did not challenge me. This was not teaching....this was preaching and iut turned the course into a total flop for me. I pulled down a B+ as my final grade and later the professor (or should I say minister) apologized to me for his behavior. But he had lost all credibility, not only for me but to most of the others in the class.
That class was totally useless. And I suspect that for the men at Harvard, the result is the same.
I congratulate the University for taking a step toward reality.

Buck Laser
12-17-2006, 11:58 PM
Newscaster, for better or worse, religion has shaped the world we live in. One needs to understand something of what that shaping effect has been. I suspect that a great many college students tend to turn AGAINST religion when they learn what atrocities have been committed in the name of god. But it's not possible to make sense of history without looking at religion's role in history.

There's also the fact that from the very earliest times, religion has been at the center of human life. Of course, you can dismiss history as bunk, as Henry Ford did. But George Santayana told the truth when he said "those who do not learn the lessons of history are condemned to repeat it." (Quote pulled out of memory, so it may not be exactly as Santayana said it.

Newscaster
12-18-2006, 12:07 AM
Professor, you like the idea of requiring a religion course. I don't. I think the course should be offered but as an elective to thosae who are interested. But why must a student who is paying big bucks to Harvard to learn a skill for use as a career and who is NOT a believer, have to take a course that will have minimal effect on his overall passage thru college. Hardvard has a marvelous library filled with books on religion. If he really wants to know, either take the course because you want to, not because you have to. If I want to become a engineer, my believe in a God or a son of God will play little if any role. If I wanted to become a minister, chances are I would be at a theological seminary. And how to know that the professor of the religion course is being fair and equal to ALL religions, not just his own.

Buck Laser
12-18-2006, 01:17 AM
Newscaster, I always thought college was a place you go to learn to think, not to learn a skill. Most engineers have had to play catch-up over the years to keep up with the information age. Skills are for places like vocational schools, community colleges and on-the-job training. What good is it knowing how to design a vacuum tube electronic circuit when all electronic devices use ics now. But learning how we got the way we are, whether through the study of religion or history, literature, philosophy or art can make the difference between a mere technician who may not think or care about the ethical relevance of what he's creating, and a mensch who may choose not to engage in destructive behavior.

Newscaster
12-18-2006, 05:45 AM
Yes, college is a place to go to think but I would hope that to qualify for college,. you already know how to think. And I frankly do not like to be told wqhat or how to think when the subject is not one I am prone to think about in the first place. When it comes to religion, you have to be very careful. All you have to do is look around you today and you will find thought processes totally out of control by far too many people. And no, skills are not just for trade school. You dont go to a trade school to study science with an eye toward medical school. You can learn ethics, you can learn morality, and the simple difference between right and wrong without having to open a bible. And I certainly dont need some Baptist minister telling me the difference when, if I needed or wanted religious guidance, a Baptist minister might be the last person I would choose. In fact, a Christian would not be toward the top of the list and I am a believer.

Professor
12-19-2006, 06:24 PM
Yes, college is a place to go to think but I would hope that to qualify for college,. you already know how to think.


I would hope that you would already know how to think. But college is a place to get exposed to new ideas, and seeing a religion and its practices for many is a new idea.

For my ideal semester requirement, I am not talking about anything in depth. Briefly cover Judaism, Islam, Buddhism, Christianity, Basic Witchcraft and any other major religion they may come in contact with. This wouldn't be an in-depth discussion of religions, this would be how to act at a Sadder meal, what happens at Christian Christmas, what not to do at a Mosque. Basic life skills in navigating a world with religion, that's it.

piratemonkey
12-19-2006, 07:25 PM
Why, when there are so many different religions with a myriad of beliefs, must religion be a required course instead of an elective. There are those who have no interest whatsoever in religion. Why must they be saddled with such a course.

Because religion directly effects everyone's lives.

Many of the most important news stories today had religion as a major aspect of the story.Â*Â*Understanding religion is crucial to understanding the world around us.
e.g.
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/10/17/opinion/17stein.html?ex=1318737600&en=c5709a9fc1e31b3f&ei=5090&partner=rssuserland&emc=rss

I am disappointed that fewer students will learn about religion and religious thought.

Newscaster
12-19-2006, 10:29 PM
Religion does indeed affect everyone's lives but it is not always a good effect. As I have posted before, religion is at the core of almost every war ever fought but religion has never ended a war. Religion has served to comfort people but religion also serves as a threat and as a purveyor of punishment.
If you taught FAITH, as part of a philosophy course, you might teach people how not only to think but how to lead a life based on right or wrong. But teaching RELIGION is the very thing that causes problems. Most people, I would guess, are not conversant with the differences between faith and religion. Religion is a choice.
One can choose to be Catholic, or protestant or Muslim or whatever. That involves following rules set by man. Faith is something the grows within you. And if you believe and want to know more....then fine, take a course that gives you whatyou seek but making it mandatory defeats the purpose.
Why does one go to college in the first place? Either to learn about what you hope will be your career or to enhance a talent or ability you already have. Or of course, to make yourself more commercially attractive. In the job market, having a degree is almost always better than not having one. But to mandates that something that is elective in life is now mandatory creates problems especially for the student who has no interest in it. It would be the same as if a student of electrical engineering was required to take a course in Home Ec or Classical Dance.