perfect in the afterlife? [Archive]

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Professor

11-27-2006, 07:09 PM

Sorry bout that,

1. But Jesus wants everyone resurrected.
2. Part of the Master Plan.
3. Kinda like He Himself was resurrected.
4. The resurrected body will be perfect.
5. So we can do whatever we can do now with these bodies, and perhaps even more.
6. I would dare to say, that Christians will have extra powers.

Regards,
SirJamesofTexas

This post made me think, how will it be perfect? Perfect is different for every person. What is perfect? I know what I want right now and would describe as perfect, but which is a terrible idea for me.

CheesyMuslim

11-27-2006, 11:18 PM

Sorry bout that,

1. But if you were sick in this life, you would be healed.
2. If you were born defective, that would be healed.
3. If you had any defect whatsoever, healed.
4. Perfect hearing, eyes, smell, taste, etcetera.
5. Perfect with Eternal Life.
6. What is your take on perfection?

Regards,
SirJamesofTexas

underdawg

11-28-2006, 12:54 AM

I guess perfection is in the eye of the beholder. I think I would want to come back as a homosexual again. Oh never mind, I forgot, I am hell bound.

Newscaster

11-29-2006, 09:07 PM

Gosh Chess, if you are so sure how we will be, perfect in everyway when this resurrectikln of yours takes place, do you think you could answer a few questions for me?

1. If a guy dies and is ressurected at the age of 90, will he have to go thru eternity looking like a 90 year old codger or can he pick the age he would like to return to, including infancy.

2. What if the guy dies in a hospital while wearing one of those hospital gowns, open in the back is that how he will be dressed for eternity or will he be given a robe or maybe even a white leisure suit?

3. If the guy died because he overate, will he now have to starve as punishment or will he be allowed to continue as a glutton?

4. Where will all these resurrected people live while in heaven? On a cloud somewhere? Anf will we all own, rent or borrow our lodging? And can we pick our neighborhood?

5. Will there be sex in heaven with all those perfect people coming in contact all at once, including the swinging singles crowd?

6 What about Muslim and Jews who observre the rules of Kosher? Will there be food approved by their religion or will it be like an army mess line?

7. What about language differences? Or will we all travel back to Pre-Babel days?

8. Will there be cities, counties, roads and highways? Mass transportation, cars, trolleys?

9. Now,what about this idea that we will all be sitting on clouds playing harps.
For what reason will we play harps and what if I would rather piano or tenor sax? And what if I have a tin ear and cant read a note of music? Will the guy on the next cloud tolerate my taking up an instrument or even singing?

10: Finally Chess.....where is heaven and how big is it. I have heard one person describe it as about 12 square acres. Thats like a small truck farm. How are you going to get everyone in there?

Now, Chess I know you will conclude that I am just being my same old smart alecky self again but I ask these question for a serious reason. That beaing that nobody has a clue what is going to happen because NO ONE HAS EVER COME BACK TO EXPLAIN WHAT HEAVEN IS LIKE. You spend all your time telling everyone how wonderful it will be but its all in your imagination.
One more things.......if everybody will be resurrected as you say Jesus wants ( and seriously, I am not sure Jesus ever considered that) do you want to be cooped up in a heaven with the soul of every person who ever lived on this planet from day one? Thats an awful lot of people and most of us hate crowds.
Seriously Chess, you have no idea about Heaven any more than I do or the next guy. Why not wait and be surprised instead of trying to guess?

CheesyMuslim

11-30-2006, 12:58 AM

Sorry bout that,

1. I will try to answer your questions.

Gosh Chess, if you are so sure how we will be, perfect in everyway when this resurrectikln of yours takes place, do you think you could answer a few questions for me?

1.Â*Â*If a guy dies and is ressurected at the age of 90, will he have to go thru eternity looking like a 90 year old codger or can he pick the age he would like to return to, including infancy.

(A) Top age 49 years, those under that will be raised what ever age they died, all grow to be the maturedness of a 49 year old person these days. 49, is perfection.

2.Â*Â*What if the guy dies in a hospital while wearing one of those hospital gowns, open in the back is that how he will be dressed for eternity or will he be given a robe or maybe even a white leisure suit?

(B) There will be special cloths, more like ancient clothing, modest.

3.Â*Â*If the guy died because he overate, will he now have to starve as punishment or will he be allowed to continue as a glutton?

(C) He would be brought back fit and trim, and would no longer be driven to eat like he did.

4. Where will all these resurrected people live while in heaven? On a cloud somewhere? Anf will we all own, rent or borrow our lodging? And can we pick our neighborhood?

(D) Heaven is like a Earth, with far greater resources, far greater, with abodes prepared by Gawd, unlike our construction, far better.

5.Â*Â*Will there be sex in heaven with all those perfect people coming in contact all at once, including the swinging singles crowd?

(E) No, there will be no need for reproduction, having children will be a thing of the past, and so will sexual relations.

6Â*Â* What about Muslim and Jews who observre the rules of Kosher? Will there be food approved by their religion or will it be like an army mess line?

(F) All food laws will be done away with and so will be the eating of meats, everyone will partake of a different food, Angel Food.

7.Â*Â*What about language differences? Or will we all travel back to Pre-Babel days?

(G) There will be a universal Language, and everyone will already know it. Hidden in the mind.

8.Â*Â*Will there be cities, counties, roads and highways? Mass transportation, cars, trolleys?

(H) No Country's, just Heaven, There isÂ*Â*a mass transit system.

9.Â*Â*Now,what about this idea that we will all be sitting on clouds playing harps.

(I) Nope, won't happen.

For what reason will we play harps and what if I would rather piano or tenor sax? And what if I have a tin ear and cant read a note of music? Will the guy on the next cloud tolerate my taking up an instrument or even singing?

hehehe,....

10:Â*Â*Finally Chess.....where is heaven and how big is it. I have heard one person describe it as about 12 square acres. Thats like a small truck farm. How are you going to get everyone in there?

(J) Its a planet, much greater than this one.

Now, Chess I know you will conclude that I am just being my same old smart alecky self again but I ask these question for a serious reason. That beaing that nobody has a clue what is going to happen because NO ONE HAS EVER COME BACK TO EXPLAIN WHAT HEAVEN IS LIKE. You spend all your time telling everyone how wonderful it will be but its all in your imagination.
One more things.......if everybody will be resurrected as you say Jesus wants ( and seriously, I am not sure Jesus ever considered that) do you want to be cooped up in a heaven with the soul of every person who ever lived on this planet from day one? Thats an awful lot of people and most of us hate crowds.
Seriously Chess, you have no idea about Heaven any more than I do or the next guy. Why not wait and be surprised instead of trying to guess?

(K) Yeah sure, if that gives you comfort.

Regards,
SirJamesofTexas

Alonzo

11-30-2006, 01:02 AM

(D) No, there will be no need for reproduction, having children will be a thing of the past, and so will sexual relations.

I always thought heaven was full of orgies. Can I go to hell instead? It seems like there's more to do there.

Newscaster

11-30-2006, 01:15 AM

Chess, your answers to my questions were a fabulous flight of fantasy. My family and I were absolutely amazed at some of things you wrote about. I especially enjoyed your answers about how we will all look like we are 49. Why that dull age for God's sake. Why not one where we are not just starting to develop arthritis and other maladies of aging. Now, tell me.....where did those answers come from. Surely not the Bible because the people who wrote the bible had no such concepts back then. So, you had to have made them up. True?????

underdawg

11-30-2006, 01:24 AM

CheesyMuslim

11-30-2006, 01:30 AM

Sorry bout that,

1. Nope.
2. They are all Biblical.
3. And I am glad you are amused.
4. Your old and don't know these things?
5. Man that's gotta suck real bad for you.
6. But I will be glad to share a little truth with you.
7. Thou you will find it hard to believe, but that's cool by me.

Regards,
SirJamesofTexas

BoogyMan

11-30-2006, 02:21 AM

lily

11-30-2006, 02:32 AM

BoogyMan

11-30-2006, 02:52 AM

Well, if I have to go to hell, I intend to clean it up and make it fun and exciting. Sex for everyone. Devils food cake down there. No robes for me, causual dress or clothes optional. Rock and roll music in hell, none of that hymnal stuff. And if I have to go there, most of my friends will be there as well.

Sounds like a little bit of heaven to me.

Hell is named in the text of the bible after the valley of hinnom known also as gehenna. This valley was a dumping ground outside of Jerusalem where idolaters sacrificed to Moleck and Baal by burning their human sacrifices alive.

Seems like a very powerful word picture to me.

lily

11-30-2006, 03:09 AM

That may be the bible's version, but it's not underdawg's. Seems only fair, if one gets to make up stuff............

Professor

11-30-2006, 03:25 AM

I'm posting my reply in this thread as if there is a god, an afterlife, a heaven, a hell and these are real things that will actually happen. I'm doing this for the sake of argument so I can look at the individual points of ideology and argument.

Chess- I don't know what perfect is. That was my point. I don't think there is a perfect. I used to think there was a perfect, but when I got there, I found a new perfect to work for, then another and so on. Then perfect wasn't perfect. So now I don't know.

Perfect is at once such a loose term and yet constraining; constantly constricting. It's a slippery concept. I don't trust it.

Professor

11-30-2006, 03:38 AM

1.Â*Â*If a guy dies and is ressurected at the age of 90, will he have to go thru eternity looking like a 90 year old codger or can he pick the age he would like to return to, including infancy.

(A) Top age 49 years, those under that will be raised what ever age they died, all grow to be the maturedness of a 49 year old person these days. 49, is perfection.

Source please.

3.Â*Â*If the guy died because he overate, will he now have to starve as punishment or will he be allowed to continue as a glutton?

(C) He would be brought back fit and trim, and would no longer be driven to eat like he did.

Again source.Â*Â*

Also, let me further confuse everyone, what if we put in another addiction.Â*Â*Let's say our fellow is an alcholic.Â*Â*He died of liver failure but he still wants to drink, he just wants to continue his addiction in the afterlife with a body that withstand the demands of the lifestyle without caving.Â*Â*A perfect body if you will.Â*Â*Any thoughts from anyone?

6Â*Â* What about Muslim and Jews who observre the rules of Kosher? Will there be food approved by their religion or will it be like an army mess line?

(F) All food laws will be done away with and so will be the eating of meats, everyone will partake of a different food, Angel Food.

Sources please.

8.Â*Â*Will there be cities, counties, roads and highways? Mass transportation, cars, trolleys?

(H) No Country's, just Heaven, There isÂ*Â*a mass transit system.

Source please.

9.Â*Â*Now,what about this idea that we will all be sitting on clouds playing harps.

(I) Nope, won't happen.

Again source please.Â*Â*Or is it the lack of mention in the Bible that could also be a source...

piratemonkey

11-30-2006, 02:10 PM

Hell is named in the text of the bible after the valley of hinnom known also as gehenna.Â*Â*This valley was a dumping ground outside of Jerusalem where idolaters sacrificed to Moleck and Baal by burning their human sacrifices alive.

Seems like a very powerful word picture to me.

"Word picture"?!?

Are you saying that Hell, with its lake of fire, is literally in the Valley of Hinnom?

Or are you saying the Bible isn't literally true?

Professor

11-30-2006, 02:22 PM

That may be the bible's version, but it's not underdawg's. Seems only fair, if one gets to make up stuff............

Exactly. Each to his own.

askates

11-30-2006, 02:35 PM

Sorry bout that,

7. Thou you will find it hard to believe, but that's cool by me.

I , I do find it hard to believe.

BoogyMan

11-30-2006, 02:49 PM

lily

11-30-2006, 03:25 PM

That may be the bible's version, but it's not underdawg's. Seems only fair, if one gets to make up stuff............

Exactly.Â*Â*Each to his own.

It only makes sense. One person's vision of heaven wouldn't be another person's version of heaven.

Also, let me further confuse everyone, what if we put in another addiction. Let's say our fellow is an alcholic. He died of liver failure but he still wants to drink, he just wants to continue his addiction in the afterlife with a body that withstand the demands of the lifestyle without caving. A perfect body if you will. Any thoughts from anyone?

Going to take a stab at this. Addiction is a way IMO to get rid of the "demons" that nag and haunt you in the back of your mind. A wrong done to you, a wrong you've done to someone else. I don't see why you would need any type of self medication in Heaven as you would be rid of all the things that drove you to your addition in the first place.

Now if you were talking about an occasional drink, toke, snort, or popping, to me that is not addiction, it is pleasure and as I said you still would have no use for those in heaven as it's suppose to be a place of the purest pleasure, comfort and saftey.

piratemonkey

11-30-2006, 04:08 PM

I am saying terms were used that would give us a VERY vivid idea of what Hell would be like.

Ah... so Jesus used allegories.Â*Â*His words were not always literal?Â*Â*

Jesus said:

Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of Gehenna?
- Matthew 23:33

He wasn't talking about the garbage dump south of Jeruselem called "Gehenna?"Â*Â*So when Jesus said "Gehenna," he didn't mean "Gehenna" literally?Â*Â*He meant Hell?

Interesting.Â*Â*Makes one wonder if other parts of the Bible shouldn't be read literally.

BoogyMan

11-30-2006, 04:42 PM

Ah... so Jesus used allegories.Â*Â*His words were not always literal?

I find your desperation to try and pick out something about religion which, in your mind, you can pounce on to be quite entertaining.

Jesus used a descriptive word to get his meaning across and you choose to build a card house of your new angry atheist belief upon it?Â*Â*Thats rich!

Interesting.Â*Â*Makes one wonder if other parts of the Bible shouldn't be read literally.

It makes those with a predilection to try and discredit the word of God to think in such a manner.Â*Â*Thanks for trying pirate, another failed attempt.

Professor

11-30-2006, 06:41 PM

Also, let me further confuse everyone, what if we put in another addiction.Â*Â*Let's say our fellow is an alcholic.Â*Â*He died of liver failure but he still wants to drink, he just wants to continue his addiction in the afterlife with a body that withstand the demands of the lifestyle without caving.Â*Â*A perfect body if you will.Â*Â*Any thoughts from anyone?

Going to take a stab at this. Addiction is a way IMO to get rid of the "demons" that nag and haunt you in the back of your mind. A wrong done to you, a wrong you've done to someone else. I don't see why you would need any type of self medication in Heaven as you would be rid of all the things that drove you to your addition in the first place.

Now if you were talking about an occasional drink, toke, snort, or popping, to me that is not addiction, it is pleasure and as I said you still would have no use for those in heaven as it's suppose to be a place of the purest pleasure, comfort and saftey.

However, many people find pleasure in their addictions.Â*Â*Let's make our guy a lady and make our lady a puker.Â*Â*So our bulimic dies from complications of purging, and it sent to heaven where she wants to continue to binge and purge.Â*Â*If she enjoys it then wouldn't she be able to?

I realize I am arguing the afterlife, addictions, and semantics all at once so this is a bit scattered and illogical.Â*Â*I also know that the bulimic probably doesn't enjoy being bulimic, but she probably is so used to it that she does not enjoy not being bulimic.

Newscaster

11-30-2006, 07:42 PM

Lily,
Addictions doesnt eliminate anything. Addiction actually solidifies problems that result in addiction. I agree that an occasional belt, snort or toke does not necessarily make you an addict but there are some drugs where that is the case. I know of cases where a kid was addicted after one session with crank. Addiction does not rid anyone of demons but in effect adds more demons because you, thru addiction, lose control of yourself and that in itself is a demon. But thats all beside the poit. The point of this is........our ideas of what heaven will be like are strictly man -made, and based on no tangible proof. But, if it makes you feel better and it doesnt intrude on anyone else......have a ball, But be careful about the image of yourself that you project when you express those ideas to others.

piratemonkey

11-30-2006, 08:06 PM

Jesus used a descriptive word to get his meaning across and you choose to build a card house of your new angry atheist belief upon it?Â*Â*Thats rich!

The word to describe that "descriptive word" is "allegory."Â*Â*Are you saying no other parts of the Bible are allegorical?

It interesting that you didn't even argue against my point, only attempting to insult me.

It makes those with a predilection to try and discredit the word of God to think in such a manner.Â*Â*Thanks for trying pirate, another failed attempt.

Discredit the word of God?Â*Â*To discredit something it has to be credible in the first place.Â*Â*I know of no proof that this book is the work of any supernatural being.

Do you have proof?

BoogyMan

11-30-2006, 08:32 PM

The word to describe that "descriptive word" is "allegory."Â*Â*Are you saying no other parts of the Bible are allegorical?

It interesting that you didn't even argue against my point, only attempting to insult me.

Pirate, if you had a point I would argue it, you don't, so I won't.

What insult, I thought your were proud of the new angry atheist tactics that you have espoused here in the past and continue to evidence today?

piratemonkey

11-30-2006, 09:03 PM

Ask straightforward questions...
Are you saying no other parts of the Bible are allegorical?
get no answers....

*chirp*

only insults.

What insult, I thought your were proud of the new angry atheist tactics that you have espoused here in the past and continue to evidence today?

*sigh*

It not difficult to see why some would get frustrated...

lily

11-30-2006, 09:03 PM

However, many people find pleasure in their addictions.Â*Â*Let's make our guy a lady and make our lady a puker.Â*Â*So our bulimic dies from complications of purging, and it sent to heaven where she wants to continue to binge and purge.Â*Â*If she enjoys it then wouldn't she be able to?

I realize I am arguing the afterlife, addictions, and semantics all at once so this is a bit scattered and illogical.Â*Â*I also know that the bulimic probably doesn't enjoy being bulimic, but she probably is so used to it that she does not enjoy not being bulimic.

I'm not an expert on eating disorders, Professor so what I am stating is just my opinion. From what I uderstand a bulimic binges and then purges. They throw up so they won't gain weight. Now while I don't agree with chess' statement that everyone comes back as a 49 year old person, heaven is suppose to be paradise. I would think, that you wouldÂ*Â*be able to eat as much as you wanted, without having to purge. Eating is the pleasure, purging isn't pleasurable at all.

lily

11-30-2006, 09:17 PM

Newscaster

Lily,
Addictions doesnt eliminate anything. Addiction actually solidifies problems that result in addiction. I agree that an occasional belt, snort or toke does not necessarily make you an addict but there are some drugs where that is the case. I know of cases where a kid was addicted after one session with crank. Addiction does not rid anyone of demons but in effect adds more demons because you, thru addiction, lose control of yourself and that in itself is a demon. But thats all beside the poit. The point of this is........our ideas of what heaven will be like are strictly man -made, and based on no tangible proof.

You're right, Newscaster I did miss a word, addiction temporarly rids you of your "demons". Again I am no expert, but I would think that at least 80% of addicts don't do it for the pleasure they get from it, but to dull either physical or mental pain. It might not have started out that way, but sooner or later I think every addict is an addict because of something that happened in their past that just won't stay burried in their past.

But be careful about the image of yourself that you project when you express those ideas to others.

I'm not sure what you mean by this, Newscaster. If you mean my ideas about addiction are wrong, then I'm eager to discuss. If you're judging me by my statement of an occasional "medication vacation" is wrong, I don't much care what people on a message board think about it. I am who I am and it took me a long time to be comfortable in my skin. I've found out, life is too short to give a hoot what others think of me, when my sister died.

underdawg

11-30-2006, 10:57 PM

I just found this to be an amusing topic. But for me, I concider myself an agnostic. I see a world full of different religions and different views of who god or gods might be and different ideas of what, or if an afterlife might be like. By chance, if I were born in a different part of the world, perhaps I would be faced with trying to believe in the local god or gods. Why should I believe that one religion is better than another one. I know from experience that the most popular way is not always right. I guess it would come down to how well I would fit into the local religion. As a gay man, Christianity offers me very little chance of living a happy and fullfilled life. If I was born a heterosexual, I very well could be quite content as a Christian. If I were born heterosexual, I most likely would have no reason to question my religion, my faith, heaven or hell. I could very easily walk the straight and narrow path. As a gay man, that path is not in my nature. I could not live a happy and fullfilled life pretending to be something that I am not.

Newscaster

11-30-2006, 11:21 PM

A concept about who or what God is, is a private matter, personal to each person. Some view God as a white haired, robed gentleman seated on a golden throne. Others think of God as being a woman or simply a force that is present everywhere and in everything. And of course there are thoise who believe in multiple Gods. If those beliefs satisfy the holder, then they are perfectly fine beliefs so long as they dont intrude on my beliefs or non-beliefs. Look at what is happening in Iraq with Sunnis killing Shiites and Kurds and vice-versa twice over. They are all Muslims but because of differences in the various branches, they are at each other throats.

When discussing religion and religion related subjects, to maintain credibility, one must pick his words and deeds carefully. In that there is NO CONCRETE PROOF of what we say, how we say it becomes important to us. Thats why declarations, criticisms and dire predictions can not only be injurious to the listener but to the speakrer too. Somehow, I dont believe that religious belief carries with it the obligation to insult and threaten. And discussions of faith, far too many times comes to just that.

CheesyMuslim

12-01-2006, 12:43 AM

Sorry bout that,

1. Then why ask questions, if you really don't want THE answers?

Regards,
SirJamesofTexas

Professor

12-01-2006, 04:30 AM

Addictions doesnt eliminate anything. Addiction actually solidifies problems that result in addiction. I agree that an occasional belt, snort or toke does not necessarily make you an addict but there are some drugs where that is the case. I know of cases where a kid was addicted after one session with crank. Addiction does not rid anyone of demons but in effect adds more demons because you, thru addiction, lose control of yourself and that in itself is a demon. But thats all beside the poit. The point of this is........our ideas of what heaven will be like are strictly man -made, and based on no tangible proof. But, if it makes you feel better and it doesnt intrude on anyone else......have a ball, But be careful about the image of yourself that you project when you express those ideas to others.

I think you said exactly what I was trying to say/explain/figure out with this thread.Â*Â*Thank you.

1. Then why ask questions, if you really don't want THE answers?

I'll answer this because I was the one who started the thread.Â*Â*I think when I started this it was equally about idea of perfection and faith.Â*Â*Addictions, semantics, and homosexuals got thrown in there and the thread got rather OT but still quite worthwhile.Â*Â*

I did post this thread wanting the answers.Â*Â*And I found some, some I still don't know.Â*Â*But I need to come to the conclusions and realize the answers myself.Â*Â*Discussion simply helps the process as I can bounce my thoughts off someone else.Â*Â*

As a man of faith, you know that you can't force a person to believe what it is that they don't want to.Â*Â*They need to see the answers for themselves.Â*Â*So yes, I did want to see the answers.Â*Â*But your answer wasn't the right one for me.