9/11 video as a reminder

[Labrocca]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xDh_pvv1tUM&feature=Favorites&page=2&t=t&f=b

This is a reminder why we are there. I was there in NYC on that day. Maybe one day I will make the story into a long post.

[Drocket]

http://www.antiwar.com/news/?articleid=2444

This is a reminder of what we're doing now that we're over there.

[Labrocca]

I personally don't see anything all that terrible in those images Drocket.

[Drocket]

Not even the large smears of blood where prisoners have been beaten unconcious and then drug away to their cells where they hopefully live out the night (and several of them didn't)?Â*Â*Then you're a souless shell of a human being.

[Labrocca]

People die...I don't see the great tragedy of this. Also that blood...what's it from? For all you know it's self-inflicted wounds or even an Americans blood. Most of those pics involve humiliation which imho are fair game for torture. Yeah so they are naked..big deal.

Since you called me souless can I assume you are a religious person?

[Drocket]

Not particularly, but I do believe in evil.Â*Â*And feigned ignorance about torture - well, lets just say it doesn't qualify as good.Â*Â*

[Labrocca]

feigned ignorance

ooo...I like the sound of that. It should be the name of a blog or something.

[RickSp]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xDh_pvv1tUM&feature=Favorites&page=2&t=t&f=b

This is a reminder why we are there.Â*Â*I was there in NYC on that day.Â*Â*Maybe one day I will make the story into a long post.


9/11 is why we are "there"?Â*Â*By "there" do you mean the brutal occupation of Iraq, a country that never attacked us and had nothing to do with the attacks?Â*Â*If so, excuse me as I try to control my contempt for anyone who tries to link the actions of our criminal president with the events of September 11th.

I take 9/11 personally. I live in what was once literally the shadow of the World Trade Center. My wife was on the concourse of 1WTC when the first plane hit. I saw the second plane strike the South tower and had to try to explain to my kids what had happened as I took them out of school less than a mile from Ground Zero.Â*I lived with the stench of the smoldering fires at Ground Zero for months. Â*So I get very angry when simple-minded yahoos justify neocon imperialism by invoking 9/11.Â*

And I need not comment on the humanity, or lack thereof of those who dismiss the torture of prisoners.Â*

[Labrocca]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xDh_pvv1tUM&feature=Favorites&page=2&t=t&f=b

This is a reminder why we are there.Â*Â*I was there in NYC on that day.Â*Â*Maybe one day I will make the story into a long post.


9/11 is why we are "there"?Â*Â*By "there" do you mean the brutal occupation of Iraq, a country that never attacked us and had nothing to do with the attacks?Â*Â*If so, excuse me as I try to control my contempt for anyone who tries to link the actions of our criminal president with the events of September 11th.

I take 9/11 personally. I live in what was once literally the shadow of the World Trade Center. My wife was on the concourse of 1WTC when the first plane hit. I saw the second plane strike the South tower and had to try to explain to my kids what had happened as I took them out of school less than a mile from Ground Zero.Â*I lived with the stench of the smoldering fires at Ground Zero for months. Â*So I get very angry when simple-minded yahoos justify neocon imperialism by invoking 9/11.Â*

And I need not comment on the humanity, or lack thereof of those who dismiss the torture of prisoners.Â*




And what makes you think I didn't experience the same thing on that day? I was sitting on the Manhattan bridge in the D train when I witnessed the 2nd plane hit. Just because I don't agree with you doesn't mean I am a "small-minded yahoo".

[RickSp]

And what makes you think I didn't experience the same thing on that day?Â*Â*I was sitting on the Manhattan bridge in the D train when I witnessed the 2nd plane hit.Â*Â*Just because I don't agree with you doesn't mean I am a "small-minded yahoo".


Then answer the question - are you justifying being "there" to use your words, which I presume you mean theÂ*Â*invasion of Iraq, by invoking 9/11?Â*Â*And given that Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11, despite all the lies told to the contrary, can you understand how deeply offensive I find using 9/11 to sell a brutal, immoral and illegal war?

[forest_ranger254]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xDh_pvv1tUM&feature=Favorites&page=2&t=t&f=b

This is a reminder why we are there.Â*Â*I was there in NYC on that day.Â*Â*Maybe one day I will make the story into a long post.


9/11 is why we are "there"?Â*Â*By "there" do you mean the brutal occupation of Iraq, a country that never attacked us and had nothing to do with the attacks?Â*Â*If so, excuse me as I try to control my contempt for anyone who tries to link the actions of our criminal president with the events of September 11th.

I take 9/11 personally. I live in what was once literally the shadow of the World Trade Center. My wife was on the concourse of 1WTC when the first plane hit. I saw the second plane strike the South tower and had to try to explain to my kids what had happened as I took them out of school less than a mile from Ground Zero.Â*I lived with the stench of the smoldering fires at Ground Zero for months. Â*So I get very angry when simple-minded yahoos justify neocon imperialism by invoking 9/11.Â*

And I need not comment on the humanity, or lack thereof of those who dismiss the torture of prisoners.Â*




Well, to list a number of other things, the videotaped torture and execution of American citizens that Suddam condoned, the torture of his own people, and the unanswered (and therefore unaired) questions of why he was massing forces on the borders of Kuwait yet again. If you think I will pull the WMD's out, I beg to differ. The information given to Bush concerning the existence or lack of existence of WMD's in Iraq was misinformation given by an informant who is now OFF the government's pay list. back in April 2005, Richard Norton announced that they were wrong about the WMD's, and Bush has NEVER said he was wrong to say that. so let's not go there. The reason we are in Iraq is because of those, and the fact that now 15 different Al-Quaeda operatives were found in the course of this operation is just gravy.


PS: whoa whoa whoa, you are on Volconvo aren't you?

[forest_ranger254]

And what makes you think I didn't experience the same thing on that day?Â*Â*I was sitting on the Manhattan bridge in the D train when I witnessed the 2nd plane hit.Â*Â*Just because I don't agree with you doesn't mean I am a "small-minded yahoo".


Then answer the question - are you justifying being "there" to use your words, which I presume you mean theÂ*Â*invasion of Iraq, by invoking 9/11?Â*Â*And given that Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11, despite all the lies told to the contrary, can you understand how deeply offensive I find using 9/11 to sell a brutal, immoral and illegal war?


Illegal to save the millions of lives Suddam WOULD have killed? Immoral to stop the mass murder of American citizens? brutal? look at WW2. if you want to pull out just because the war is brutal, you have NEVER been introduced to the reality of war. War is always brutal. War is not about who wins, but about how much each side is willing to lose (that quote was found in Shatterpoints, great book describing the current situation of war.). It isn't going to be pretty, it isn't going to be easy. Are you going to drop in the face of the first difficulty in a war that you, as part of America, gave the power to start? War is about commitment. The reason we are losing so many people is because they are committed. The question is, are you going to stay and stand up for what is morally right, or withdraw from Iraq and stand by and watch innocent people get killed and do nothing about it?

[RickSp]

Illegal to save the millions of lives Suddam WOULD have killed? Immoral to stop the mass murder of American citizens? brutal? look at WW2. if you want to pull out just because the war is brutal, you have NEVER been introduced to the reality of war. War is always brutal. War is not about who wins, but about how much each side is willing to lose (that quote was found in Shatterpoints, great book describing the current situation of war.). It isn't going to be pretty, it isn't going to be easy. Are you going to drop in the face of the first difficulty in a war that you, as part of America, gave the power to start? War is about commitment. The reason we are losing so many people is because they are committed. The question is, are you going to stay and stand up for what is morally right, or withdraw from Iraq and stand by and watch innocent people get killed and do nothing about it?


I notice that you ignore the question - why did we attack the one nation in the Middle East that effectively had nothing to do with the 9/11 attacks?Â*Â*Your Saddam as monster rant is more than tired. Saddam committed his worst crimes when he was an ally of the US and Donny Rumsfeld was Special Envoy to Baghdad.Â*Â*

So invading countries that never attacked us is morally right?Â*Â*Butchering tens of thousands of civilians is morally right?Â*Â*Sounds more like barbarism than morality to me.Â*Â*

[forest_ranger254]

I have emboldened the reasons since you don't care to read my post.




Illegal to save the millions of lives Suddam WOULD have killed? Immoral to stop the mass murder of American citizens? brutal? look at WW2. if you want to pull out just because the war is brutal, you have NEVER been introduced to the reality of war. War is always brutal. War is not about who wins, but about how much each side is willing to lose (that quote was found in Shatterpoints, great book describing the current situation of war.). It isn't going to be pretty, it isn't going to be easy. Are you going to drop in the face of the first difficulty in a war that you, as part of America, gave the power to start? War is about commitment. The reason we are losing so many people is because they are committed. The question is, are you going to stay and stand up for what is morally right, or withdraw from Iraq and stand by and watch innocent people get killed and do nothing about it?


I notice that you ignore the question - why did we attack the one nation in the Middle East that effectively had nothing to do with the 9/11 attacks?Â*Â*Your Saddam as monster rant is more than tired. Saddam committed his worst crimes when he was an ally of the US and Donny Rumsfeld was Special Envoy to Baghdad.Â*Â*

So invading countries that never attacked us is morally right?Â*Â*Butchering tens of thousands of civilians is morally right?Â*Â*Sounds more like barbarism than morality to me.Â*Â*

your evidence that WE are responsible for that butchering? Suddam and his minions are responsible for MILLIONS of lives, and would have been responsible for many more American and Iraqi lives before he died. look, I ain't here to argue the past. you understand that? I never said it had anything to do with 9/11, although thus far 15 Al-Quaeda operatives were apprehended. it has to do with morality. the collateral damager of a couple thousand people living on borrowed time they are given by the oppressive, bloodthirsty government is worth saving the hundreds of thousands of innocent lives that would have died otherwise. you want a list of what life would be like as an Iraqi woman?

publically whipped for showing her face, refusing to obey her husband's insane demands, or just because some idiotic man FEELS like it.
tortured and killed if they denounce Islamic beliefs.

I am sorry, but if I found out you were condoning that kind of action from another person you knew, I would, as an American citizen and respecter of personal rights, put you under citizen's arrest. and trust me, I would have the name of that person out of you before the authorities got to you. I may not be a humanist, but Suddam was the biggest ***hole that ever walked this earth. and I hold that sentiment for ANY person who would rather him still be on the throne of Iraq.

[PatrickHenry]

...Suddam was the biggest ***hole that ever walked this earth...Possibly exceeded by GW Bush, Dick Cheney and all the other bastards that created and covered up 9/11 so that they could have a nice profitable war in the MidEast and run up the price of gas worldwide. :evil:

[ptif219]

If the UN and Clinton had made Saddam comply with the sanctions instead of allowing the corruption of the oil for food program maybe it could have been avoided.

Tell the victims families of the mass graves that we should have stayed away and let Saddam fill more mass graves.

[Elrathin]

If the UN and Clinton had made Saddam comply with the sanctions instead of allowing the corruption of the oil for food program maybe it could have been avoided.

Too bad Bush didn't give it a shot, we might have avoided all those U.S. soldiers deaths and Iraq wouldn't be a safe haven to Al-Q members.

[namguy]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xDh_pvv1tUM&feature=Favorites&page=2&t=t&f=b

This is a reminder why we are there. I was there in NYC on that day. Maybe one day I will make the story into a long post.

We've not caught the gut yet!!!!! The present administration is concerned about OIL, OIL, 9-11 isn't on their mind anymore.