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BoogyMan
11-17-2006, 03:19 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5g7zlJx9u2E



SOURCE: Link Here (http://www.dailybruin.com/news/articles.asp?id=38960)

An incident late Tuesday night in which a UCLA student was stunned at least four times with a Taser has left the UCLA community questioning whether the university police officers' use of force was an appropriate response to the situation.

Mostafa Tabatabainejad, a UCLA student, was repeatedly stunned with a Taser and then taken into custody when he did not exit the CLICC Lab in Powell Library in a timely manner. Community Service Officers had asked Tabatabainejad to leave after he failed to produce his BruinCard during a random check at around 11:30 p.m. Tuesday.

UCPD Assistant Chief of Police Jeff Young said the checks are a standard procedure in the library after 11 p.m.

"Because of the safety of the students we limit the use after 11 to just students, staff and faculty," Young said.

Young said the CSOs on duty in the library at the time went to get UCPD officers when Tabatabainejad did not immediately leave, and UCPD officers resorted to use of the Taser when Tabatabainejad did not do as he was told.

A six-minute video showed Tabatabainejad audibly screaming in pain as he was stunned several times with a Taser, each time for three to five seconds. He was told repeatedly to stand up and stop fighting, and was told that if he did not do so he would "get Tased again."

Tabatabainejad was also stunned with the Taser when he was already handcuffed, said Carlos Zaragoza, a third-year English and history student who witnessed the incident.

"(He was) no possible danger to any of the police," Zaragoza said. "(He was) getting shocked and Tasered as he was handcuffed."

But Young said at the time the police likely had no way of knowing whether the individual was armed or that he was a student.

As Tabatabainejad was being dragged through the room by two officers, he repeated in a strained scream, "I'm not fighting you" and "I said I would leave."

The officers used the "drive stun" setting in the Taser, which delivers a shock to a specific part of the body with the front of the Taser, Young said.

A Taser delivers volts of low-amperage energy to the body, causing a disruption of the body's electrical energy pulses and locking the muscles, according to a report by the American Civil Liberties Union.

"It's an electrical shock. ... It causes pain," Young said, adding that the drive stun would not likely demobilize a person or cause residual pain after the shock was administered. Young also said a Taser is less forceful than a baton, for example.

But according to a study published in the Lancet Medical Journal in 2001, a charge of three to five seconds can result in immobilization for five to 15 minutes, which would mean that Tabatabainejad could have been physically unable to stand when the officers demanded that he do so.

"It is a real mistake to treat a Taser as some benign thing that painlessly brings people under control," said Peter Eliasberg, managing attorney at the ACLU of Southern California.

"The Taser can be incredibly violent and result in death," Eliasberg said.

According to an ACLU report, 148 people in the United States and Canada have died as a result of the use of Tasers since 1999.

During the altercation between Tabatabainejad and the officers, bystanders can be heard in the video repeatedly asking the officers to stop and requesting their names and identification numbers. The video showed one officer responding to a student by threatening that the student would "get Tased too." At this point, the officer was still holding a Taser.

Such a threat of the use of force by a law enforcement officer in response to a request for a badge number is an "illegal assault," Eliasberg said.

"It is absolutely illegal to threaten anyone who asks for a badge â€" that's assault," he said.

Tabatabainejad was released from custody after being given a citation for obstruction/delay of a peace officer in the performance of duty.

Neither Tabatabainejad nor his family were giving interviews Wednesday.

Police officers said they determined the use of Tasers was necessary when Tabatabainejad did not do as they asked.

According to a UCPD press release, Tabatabainejad went limp and refused to exit as the officers attempted to escort him out. The release also stated Tabatabainejad "encouraged library patrons to join his resistance." At this point, the officers "deemed it necessary to use the Taser in a "drive stun' capacity."

"He wasn't cooperative; he wouldn't identify himself. He resisted the officers," Young said.

Neither the video footage nor eyewitness accounts of the events confirmed that Tabatabainejad encouraged resistance, and he repeatedly told the officers he was not fighting and would leave.

Tabatabainejad was walking with his backpack toward the door when he was approached by two UCPD officers, one of whom grabbed the student's arm. In response, Tabatabainejad yelled at the officers to "get off me." Following this demand, Tabatabainejad was stunned with a Taser.

UCPD and the UCLA administration would not comment on the specifics of the incident as it is still under investigation.

In a statement released Wednesday, Interim Chancellor Norman Abrams said investigators were reviewing the situation and the officers' actions.

"I can assure you that these reviews will be thorough, vigorous and fair," Abrams said.

The incident, which Zaragoza described as an example of "police brutality," left many students disturbed.

"I realize when looking at these kind of arrest tapes that they don't always show the full picture. ... But that six minutes that we can watch just seems like it's a ridiculous amount of force for someone being escorted because they forgot their BruinCard," said Ali Ghandour, a fourth-year anthropology student.

"It certainly makes you wonder if something as small as forgetting your BruinCard can eventually lead to getting Tased several times in front of the library," he added.

Edouard Tchertchian, a third-year mathematics student, said he was concerned that the student was not offered any other means of showing that he was a UCLA student.

NortheastCynic
11-17-2006, 01:26 PM
This is trully a disturbing thing to see/hear...These police should be fired and disgraced. There is no justification for what they did.

-NC

Elrathin
11-17-2006, 02:30 PM
Sorry but I don't agree in telling someone to get up after they have been tazed or they'll taze them again. That was just wrong IMO.

Doesn't look good for these cops at all.

BoogyMan
11-17-2006, 02:35 PM
This sure looks like blatant abuse of power to me from the video. We don't know exactly what happened to spur this incident on, but I cannot imagine that whatever happened deserved the actions meted out by the campus police.

wonder cow
11-18-2006, 02:09 PM
UCLA Student Tasered by Police in Library

The guy should have just paid the 15 cents late fee on the book. But noooooo, he had to be a rebel.

ECW
11-18-2006, 06:31 PM
Disgraceful. Betcha if his name was Mike Brown instead of Mostafa Tabatabainejad the cops wouldn't have even bothered to stop him for his student card much less Tazer him. I smell a huge lawsuit.

BoogyMan
11-18-2006, 06:44 PM
Disgraceful. Betcha if his name was Mike Brown instead of Mostafa Tabatabainejad the cops wouldn't have even bothered to stop him for his student card much less Tazer him. I smell a huge lawsuit.


Why do you make such an assumption? From the articles I read the random card checks are a standard part of campus security at UCLA. I have said it before, but it bears repeating, race baiting solves nothing.

NortheastCynic
11-18-2006, 06:50 PM
I'm not going to assume racism, but I do think it does make the situation worse than it already is.Â*Â*Also, the lawsuit is already in the works: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20061118/ap_on_re_us/student_stunned

Still, the victim's fellow students don't seem to think it was a racial issue, and I've seen no evidence to suggest that this was race-motivated.Â*Â*Students at the news conference said there was no sign Tabatabainejad was targeted because of his ethnicity. But his lawyer disagreed.

-NC

ECW
11-18-2006, 06:55 PM
Was he the first one they questioned?

Was he the only one they asked for a card from?

If those questions come up "yes" then it was the cops who were profiling and "race baiting" not the student.

NortheastCynic
11-18-2006, 07:04 PM
I see you're point ECW, but that is circumstantial evidence.Â*Â*The question I'm asking myself is, "Would the police have done the same thing to John Q. Whitestudent" and I believe the answer to that question is "yes"...Great new sign in your signature btw.

-NC

ECW
11-18-2006, 07:09 PM
"Would they" is different than "did they." Circumstantial evidence is allowed in a court of law and, believe me, that attorney will ask that question right off the bat.

BoogyMan
11-19-2006, 02:47 AM
Was he the first one they questioned?

Was he the only one they asked for a card from?

If those questions come up "yes" then it was the cops who were profiling and "race baiting" not the student.


Hi ECW, check out this quote from the original posting of the Daily Bruin article:

UCPD Assistant Chief of Police Jeff Young said the checks are a standard procedure in the library after 11 p.m.

"Because of the safety of the students we limit the use after 11 to just students, staff and faculty," Young said.

ECW
11-19-2006, 05:42 AM
Studying While Arab sounds a lot like Driving While Black.

The question still remains:

Was he the first one they questioned?

Was he the only one they asked for a card from?

Is tazering a student because he objects to being singled out SOP with the local cops? I doubt it.

Were the cops in any danger? I doubt it.

Was this an over-reaction? Sure as shooting it was (no pun intended).

BoogyMan
11-19-2006, 01:19 PM
Studying While Arab sounds a lot like Driving While Black.

The question still remains:

Was he the first one they questioned?

Was he the only one they asked for a card from?

Is tazering a student because he objects to being singled out SOP with the local cops? I doubt it.

Were the cops in any danger? I doubt it.

Was this an over-reaction? Sure as shooting it was (no pun intended).


I am as against the tasering of this kid as much as you are.Â*Â*However, the kids REFUSED to show an id and REFUSED to leave the lab with full knowledge that the stated policy was the he must provide ID to use the facilities.

UCPD Assistant Chief of Police Jeff Young said the checks are a standard procedure in the library after 11 p.m.

"Because of the safety of the students we limit the use after 11 to just students, staff and faculty," Young said.

Elrathin
11-19-2006, 02:40 PM
I don't really think this was racial profiling, but I do think it was excessive force.

ECW
11-19-2006, 04:10 PM
I don't really think this was racial profiling, but I do think it was excessive force.


Well, we agree on the excessive force part...

askates
11-19-2006, 07:45 PM
it was both racial profiling and excessive force, u could almost hear the cops saying, "this is for 911"

BoogyMan
11-19-2006, 11:05 PM
it was both racial profiling and excessive force, u could almost hear the cops saying, "this is for 911"


Lets have your proof for the racial profiling comment? There is real evidence for excessive force, the racial profiling assumption is just that, ASSUMPTION.

NortheastCynic
11-19-2006, 11:07 PM
"Would they" is different than "did they." Circumstantial evidence is allowed in a court of law and, believe me, that attorney will ask that question right off the bat.Right, and my circumstance is "if a white student did the same things that the non-white student did, would they have tased him?" I believe that they would have. And if circumstantial evidence is all that this guy has, he'll have a pretty weak argument.

-NC

askates
11-19-2006, 11:43 PM
the fact that these officers said to stand up or you get tased again, proves profiling, or blatant misinformation about the use and the power of their tasers.you would think they would have to go through taser training, and if they did then that proves that they knew there was a chance that the taser rendered him paralyzed. so how are you going to make the statement stand up or you get tased again if you are fully trained in the damage that a taser can possibly do, unless you are being unreasonably aggressive or seeking personal revenge..... racial profiling is always an assumption-no one ever fesses up to it

NortheastCynic
11-20-2006, 12:45 AM
Fair point, however, saying "stand up or get tased again" doesn't prove anything. Also, I'll ask you to respond to my hypothetical, do you think that had the victim been white they wouldn't have done the same thing?

-NC

BoogyMan
11-20-2006, 01:12 AM
the fact that these officers said to stand up or you get tased again, proves profiling, or blatant misinformation about the use and the power of their tasers.you would think they would have to go through taser training, and if they did then that proves that they knew there was a chance that the taser rendered him paralyzed. so how are you going to make the statement stand up or you get tased again if you are fully trained in the damage that a taser can possibly do, unless you are being unreasonably aggressive or seeking personal revenge..... racial profiling is always an assumption-no one ever fesses up to it


By what objective measure does a repeated demand to stand equate to racial profiling? That line of argumentation makes absolutely no sense.

askates
11-20-2006, 01:58 AM
Fair point, however, saying "stand up or get tased again" doesn't prove anything. Also, I'll ask you to respond to my hypothetical, do you think that had the victim been white they wouldn't have done the same thing?

-NC


stand up- proves that they either have no idea about the consequence of their weapon, or that they knew and chose to act stupid so they could use it repeatedly, you are right that it doesnt prove profiling, but it doesnt not prove it either, it proves they are stupid and/or sadistic.

I believe if the victim was white, there would have been definite change in protocol, no matter the amount of racial tolerance preached in this country, there will always be underlying racism existing

lily
11-20-2006, 03:28 AM
I am as against the tasering of this kid as much as you are.Â*Â*However, the kids REFUSED to show an id and REFUSED to leave the lab with full knowledge that the stated policy was the he must provide ID to use the facilities.

UCPD Assistant Chief of Police Jeff Young said the checks are a standard procedure in the library after 11 p.m.

"Because of the safety of the students we limit the use after 11 to just students, staff and faculty," Young said.



Actually he didn't REFUSE to do either Boogy. He was leaving the library, just not as fast as the libraian wanted him to. They tazed him aa he was leaving after they were called. He also didn't REFUSE to show is library card..........who knows he may just be a high school kid stidying or left his card in his drom. Failing to do something and REFUSING to do something are two different things.

Was it race related? I honestly don't know. I wonder if he would have been tazed a second or third time if he didn't say here's your Patriot Act.

Waffletush
11-20-2006, 05:00 AM
OF COURSE he wouldn't have been tazered if he was white. In fact police are briefed before they go out on patrol to profile as many people as they can, and only use force on non-whites!

As proof of my statments, I offer Eddie Murphy's skit on SNL where he dressed up as a white person.

Elrathin
11-20-2006, 05:04 AM
I think about the only thing that can be moderately concluded by the video is that there was excessive force.

I've watched the film over and over again, and I just do not see racial profiling on the film. That's not to say it didn't happen, but I cannot say for certainty that it was racial profiling just by watching the clip.

Assuming this goes to a trial, I guess we will find out then.

ECW
11-20-2006, 05:44 AM
Also, I'll ask you to respond to my hypothetical, do you think that had the victim been white they wouldn't have done the same thing?

-NC


No. This made the news because it was outrageous behavior. I have never seen cops respond like this to a white student.

BoogyMan
11-20-2006, 12:23 PM
I am as against the tasering of this kid as much as you are.Â*Â*However, the kids REFUSED to show an id and REFUSED to leave the lab with full knowledge that the stated policy was the he must provide ID to use the facilities.

UCPD Assistant Chief of Police Jeff Young said the checks are a standard procedure in the library after 11 p.m.

"Because of the safety of the students we limit the use after 11 to just students, staff and faculty," Young said.



Actually he didn't REFUSE to do either Boogy. He was leaving the library, just not as fast as the libraian wanted him to. They tazed him aa he was leaving after they were called. He also didn't REFUSE to show is library card..........who knows he may just be a high school kid stidying or left his card in his drom. Failing to do something and REFUSING to do something are two different things.

Was it race related? I honestly don't know. I wonder if he would have been tazed a second or third time if he didn't say here's your Patriot Act.


Lily, the kid refused to do anything the campus police asked him to do. The policy is that he needs ID to use the facilities. He refused to produce ID or to go get ID. I think excessive force was used, but I will not excuse his ridiculous behaviour.

piratemonkey
11-20-2006, 08:07 PM
Hows about this?

Would they have done that to Jane Q. Student?Â*Â*What if she was blonde and blue-eyed?

I sincerely doubt it.Â*Â*

No officer was ever in harm's way here... and that's the standard that should be used with less-than-lethal devices, imo.Â*Â*They are supposed to be an alternative to deadly force, not an alternative to cuffing and carrying someone off to jail.

Why did they stop tasering him and carry him off, eventually?
Why couldn't they have done that to start with?

BoogyMan
11-20-2006, 08:10 PM
Hows about this?

Would they have done that to Jane Q. Student?Â*Â*What if she was blonde and blue-eyed?

I sincerely doubt it.Â*Â*

No officer was ever in harm's way here... and that's the standard that should be used with less-than-lethal devices, imo.Â*Â*They are supposed to be an alternative to deadly force, not an alternative to cuffing and carrying someone off to jail.

Why did they stop tasering him and carry him off, eventually?
Why couldn't they have done that to start with?


Hi Pirate,

I am not saying those types of questions are not valid, they are. I am merely pointing out the lack of any evidence for this to be racial profiling other than suspicion.

lily
11-20-2006, 10:55 PM
Lily, the kid refused to do anything the campus police asked him to do.Â*Â*The policy is that he needs ID to use the facilities.Â*Â*He refused to produce ID or to go get ID.Â*Â*I think excessive force was used, but I will not excuse his ridiculous behaviour.



Boogy, according to the artilce that you posted, he was a half hour late leaving the library. The libraian called the campus police. According to your video he said he was leaving. No where in the article did it state if he was a student or not, which would require him to have a BruinCard.

Common sense tells me, that if he's leaving at 11:30 ( but not fast enough) that he is either a student who forgot his card or someone using the library, because they are allowed to stay after 11:00, so I don't know how you can refuse to show something you don't have.

Waffletush
11-20-2006, 11:43 PM
Common sense tell me that we only saw a few snippets of what was happening before he got tazed, we don't know what went down, and our responses are just guess work. Hell, even the students on site (and quotes were provided in this thread) said they saw no evidence of profiling, but nooooooooooo, people in this thread say it must be so despite what eye-witnesses concluded.

The only racial profiling going on in this tread are people saying if you are white you can get tazered all you want, becasue if you are white, you cannot be profiled.

BoogyMan
11-21-2006, 06:37 PM
Lily, the kid refused to do anything the campus police asked him to do.Â*Â*The policy is that he needs ID to use the facilities.Â*Â*He refused to produce ID or to go get ID.Â*Â*I think excessive force was used, but I will not excuse his ridiculous behaviour.



Boogy, according to the artilce that you posted, he was a half hour late leaving the library. The libraian called the campus police. According to your video he said he was leaving. No where in the article did it state if he was a student or not, which would require him to have a BruinCard.

Common sense tells me, that if he's leaving at 11:30 ( but not fast enough) that he is either a student who forgot his card or someone using the library, because they are allowed to stay after 11:00, so I don't know how you can refuse to show something you don't have.


Lily, if I poke you in the eye and tell you I am not, am I not still poking you in the eye? That is the kind of logic used in your commentary here. He was asked to leave and should have done so.

Labrocca
11-21-2006, 07:25 PM
Yer all a bunch of bull on this one.Â*Â*The video only starts AFTER the cops get nasty.Â*Â*There is nothing in that video showing the kids blatant disregard for a police officers commands.Â*Â*When a cop tells you to do something...YOU DO IT.Â*Â*It's just that simple.Â*Â*If you don't...they use force or whatever means they deem neccessary.Â*Â*The damn liberal ass college students interferring should have been arrested imho.Â*Â*You can't intefer with a police action.Â*Â*The kid was told REPEATEDLY to get up and leave.Â*Â*I don't see him leaving.Â*Â*You can't see him in the beginning of the video.Â*Â*I watched about 60% and no where do I see his "race" ...it's mentioned he is arab but it's doubtful that had ANY bearing on their actions.Â*Â*Even if it did...SO WHAT.Â*Â*If you have an Arab kid in a public building refusing to listen to police commands wouldn't you get nervous if were in that building?Â*Â*I know I would want the cops to get him out asap.

At the videos very beginning you hear him "don't touch me...don't touch me" very loudly.Â*Â*That's bullshit.Â*Â*Also after being tazed the kid is calmer and starts to say "this is your abuse of power..blah blah"...he is inciting this incident.Â*Â*He is cursing at the cops repeatedly.Â*Â*He says "I was leaving" but no..he wasn't.Â*Â*He tells the cops to "f_ck off" when he is given instructions..that's unacceptable.

If this was a 40 year old in a liquor store acting like this no one would even question it.Â*Â*Because it's in a college building with liberal students it's an abuse. BULLSHIT.

The cops imho are giving this kid a LOT of leeway..they say stand-up dozens of times. He should have been cuffed and arrested. I think they just wanted him to get up....and get out. They should have just arrested his ass, cuffed him, and dragged his ass off.

BoogyMan
11-21-2006, 08:11 PM
Common sense tell me that we only saw a few snippets of what was happening before he got tazed, we don't know what went down, and our responses are just guess work.Â*Â*Hell, even the students on site (and quotes were provided in this thread) said they saw no evidence of profiling, but nooooooooooo, people in this thread say it must be so despite what eye-witnesses concluded.

The only racial profiling going on in this tread are people saying if you are white you can get tazered all you want, becasue if you are white, you cannot be profiled.


This pretty well sums up the matter part and parcel. Racial profiling cannot be proven in this case no matter how hard the anti-establishment crowd wants it to be there.