Haniya will resign if sanctions are lifted

[Alonzo]

Ismail Haniya, the Hamas leader, has said that he would step down as Palestinian prime minister if it would persuade the West to lift economic sanctions.

"When the issue of the siege is on one side, and my being prime minister is on the other, let the siege be lifted to end the suffering of the Palestinian people," Haniya said, referring to the international aid boycott that has devastated the Palestinian economy.

His statements appeared to be another indication that Hamas and the rival Fatah party of Mahmoud Abbas, the Palestinian president, were inching closer to a national unity government made up of independent experts.

The West and Israel have withheld hundreds of millions of dollars in aid and tax revenues since Hamas took power in March in an effort to pressure the ruling group to moderate its anti-Israel ideology.

The sanctions have prevented Hamas from paying a large portion of the salaries owed to 165,000 government employees, causing widespread hardship in the West Bank and Gaza Strip.

The United States, has said it will not lift sanctions unless Hamas recognises Israel, renounces violence and accepts past peace deals, something Hamas has so far refused to do.

The programme of the proposed new unity government is vague on the key issue of recognizing Israel, calling for a Palestinian state on only the lands captured by Israel in the 1967 Mideast War.

Political rivalry

On Thursday, Abbas spoke by phone to his main political rival, Khaled Mashaal, Hamas' supreme leader - their first conversation in months.

Fawzi Barhoum, a Hamas spokesman, said their discussion was proof that the two are now in agreement on the shape of the new government.

However, weeks of up-and-down negotiations have repeatedly failed to yield results, and a fresh breakdown in talks appeared possible.

http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/02DB227B-3F13-45D9-B616-25F4B676D28C.htm

It's a shame the way this has played out. Hamas is huge, and there was a significant moderate force within the movement. When that force took power we had the option of A. cementing it as the dominant force of Hamas (what was done with the IRA) or B. Humiliating them and demonstrating to many that such steps were pointless and, in fact, can make the situation worse.

I don't give a damn about the whole taking a stand aspect. Hamas exists, the question is how to deal with it. Is it realistic to expect to destroy it, or is it more realistic to assimilate it into mainstream society and isolate the more extreme members within it. That's the issue.

In the end, the idealism of the u.s. and most of europe is just resulting in more people being killed.

[cs0564]

It's a shame the way this has played out. Hamas is huge, and there was a significant moderate force within the movement. When that force took power we had the option of A. cementing it as the dominant force of Hamas (what was done with the IRA) or B. Humiliating them and demonstrating to many that such steps were pointless and, in fact, can make the situation worse.

I don't give a damn about the whole taking a stand aspect. Hamas exists, the question is how to deal with it. Is it realistic to expect to destroy it, or is it more realistic to assimilate it into mainstream society and isolate the more extreme members within it. That's the issue.

In the end, the idealism of the u.s. and most of europe is just resulting in more people being killed.


ZO you do realize that Hamas is a terorist organization and that other Palestinian groups were killing each other? I think we need to ttry and build up relations with groups who have a honest history, but cannot say I think Hamas is the answer.

[Elrathin]

ZO you do realize that Hamas is a terorist organization and that other Palestinian groups were killing each other?


You do realize that there is a political group of Hamas and a militant group of hamas don't you? In other words there is a hard core group and a political group. It is like thge religous right and the religous right that blows up abortion clinics.

If I am wrong so be it, show me I am.

[Alonzo]

ZO you do realize that Hamas is a terorist organization and that other Palestinian groups were killing each other?Â*Â*I think we need to ttry and build up relations with groups who have a honest history, but cannot say I think Hamas is the answer.


Explain to me how the sactions A. reduced conflict between palestinians, B. decreased the strength of the extremists in hamas.

The sactions seemed to have the oppose effect, increasing both extremism and conflict.

I don't care one way or another if we negotiate with organizations deemed terrorist groups. Doesn't concern me one bit, as long as it works and reduces violence. I'm of the mindset that if emptying the jails and letting rapists, murderers etc. go free reduces crime then that's what you should do.

Such things would not work with Al Qaeda, or similar groups based entirely on religion/ideology. But it worked with the IRA and it can work with Hamas, though we wasted the best opportunity to do that. Getting the political wing of Hamas out of the government will not weaken the extremists, and recent events indicate it will likely strengthen them.

[cs0564]

I don't care one way or another if we negotiate with organizations deemed terrorist groups. Doesn't concern me one bit, as long as it works and reduces violence. I'm of the mindset that if emptying the jails and letting rapists, murderers etc. go free reduces crime then that's what you should do.

"Those who stand for nothing fall for anything". - Alexander Hamilton (1755 - 1804)

Zo I guess that is what sets Liberals apart from Conservatives. I think the very thing that reduces crime is by either locking the "rapists, murderers etc." up or sending them to their graves makes us all safer!

"I believe that forgiving them is God's function. Our job is simply to arrange the meeting." - Gen. Norman Schwartzkopf

[Alonzo]

I think the very thing that reduces crime is by either locking the "rapists, murderers etc." up or sending them to their graves makes us all safer!

I wasn't referring to that. I was using it to illustrate my point that I will take the course of action that works the best, even if it isn't the best position ideologically. The point was IF doing that reduced crime then I'd do it.

"Those who stand for nothing fall for anything". - Alexander Hamilton (1755 - 1804)


I stand for different things than you, and I'm less concerned with the means, assuming the means don't outweigh the end result. I simply don't see a downside with working with Hamas, other than some find it ideologically unsettling.

[cs0564]

IF's and BUT's were candy and nuts we would all have a Merry Christmas (or Hanaka or Kwanzaa or Eid al-Adha or Epiphany or The Feast of Fools or witches' Sabbath)! :)

I agree that the US needs to do something different to help the Palestinians. Not sure what that would be though and I do not think any Arab nation really knows either.

[Alonzo]

IF's and BUT's were candy and nuts we would all have a Merry Christmas (or Hanaka or Kwanzaa or Eid al-Adha or Epiphany or The Feast of Fools or witches' Sabbath)!

You're not this dense. The whole point is I don't care who I work with, as long as it works.

I agree that the US needs to do something different to help the Palestinians. Not sure what that would be though and I do not think any Arab nation really knows either.

Working with the democratically elected government and those willing to use politics instead of weapons may be a start.

[cs0564]

You're not this dense. The whole point is I don't care who I work with, as long as it works.

Obviously your moral fiber (or lack of) is not the same as mine. That is OK! That is what makes this country GREAT!

"May we, in our dealings with all the peoples of the earth, ever speak the truth and serve justice". - Dwight D. Eisenhower (1890 - 1969)

[Alonzo]

Yes, because someone who refuses to deal with a group they oppose, even though it leads to more violence and chaos, clearly has the moral high ground :rolleyes:.

[cs0564]

hummmm..... Hamas supports and readily uses young Palestinian men and women as suicide bombers against Isreal....................... OK, they are fighting due to the "occupation" of Isreali's in the land they "believe" is theirs. Why then now, are they killing each other to try and gain political clout within the Palestinian movement? The palestinians need to work out their issues internally before they can sit down at the table and try and work with the international community. I have yet to see the UN go in and help the Palestinians in any way. Isn't it funny that NO Arab country wants the Palestinians? Yet Isreal allows them to occupy land that it won in 1967 from the Arabs who tried to attack her and now Isreal is the bad guy.

"The darkest places in hell are reserved for those who maintain their neutrality in times of moral crisis". - Dante Alighieri (1265 - 1321)

[Alonzo]

Hamas and Fatah both have militias. And, while I definately prefer Fatah being in power, Fatah's militia has initiated more of the violence between factions than Hamas has, particularly since they lost the election. And, the violence between factions rises and falls with the stability of the nation and external pressures, at least to some extent.

Yet Isreal allows them to occupy land that it won in 1967 from the Arabs who tried to attack her and now Isreal is the bad guy.


Ya, occupying a people who were willing to fight anyone who occupied them (they fought jordan when they controlled them) will do that. It is Palestinian, not Israeli, land. Palestine was occupied before the war to being with, they did not attack Israel.

Israel allows palestinians to "occupy" that land like we allow Cherokee to "occupy" America.

Also the U.N. cannot help the palestinians as long as the U.S. vetoes every single thing that even says one tiny negative thing against israel. Nothing happens regarding Israel when the u.s. has veto power.

"The darkest places in hell are reserved for those who maintain their neutrality in times of moral crisis".

I don't know why you keep quoting people. Besides, you can't engage in serious negotiations without being trusted by both sides.