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Professor
11-03-2006, 01:49 PM
Letters to God end up in ocean, unread
By WAYNE PARRY, Associated Press Writer
Thu Nov 2, 10:53 PM ET


Some of the letters are comical (a man asking God to let him win the lottery, twice), others are heartbreaking (a distraught teen asking forgiveness for an abortion, an unwed mother pleading with God to make the baby's father marry her). The letters — about 300 in all, sent to a New Jersey minister — ended up dumped in the ocean, most of them unopened.

The minister died two years ago at 79. How the letters, some dating to 1973, wound up bobbing in the surf is a mystery.

"There are hundreds of lives here, a lot of struggle, washed up on the beach," said Bill Lacovara, a Ventnor insurance adjuster who was fishing last month with his son when he spotted a flowered plastic shopping bag and waded out to retrieve it. "This is just a hint of what really happens. How many letters like this all over the world aren't being opened or answered?"

Many of the letters were addressed to the Rev. Grady Cooper, though many more simply said "Altar." According to the text of several of them, they were intended to be placed on a church's altar and prayed over by the minister, the congregation or both.
Some were neatly written in script on white-lined paper, others in a feverish scrawl on tattered scraps of parchment or note cards. Many were crinkled from being in the water and then dried out after Lacovara fished them out of the sea.

A dog-eared business card inside one of the letters identified Cooper as associate pastor of the Mount Calvary Baptist Church in Jersey City. A woman who answered the phone at the church office confirmed Cooper once was a minister there, and had died nearly two years ago. The current pastor did not return several calls from The Associated Press over the past few days.

Other documents in the bag, including bank statements and canceled checks, also listed Cooper's name and an address for him in Jersey City. A death certificate issued in 2004 for a Grady Cooper lists the same address as those on the bank documents and some of the letters.

His wife, Frances, whose name also showed up on some of the letters at the same address, died in 2000, according to Hudson County records.

No one answered the door last week at the address where Cooper once lived, and a neighbor said he did not recall anyone by that name. Attempts to locate Cooper's relatives were unsuccessful.

Lacovara speculated that someone cleaning out Cooper's home found the letters and threw them on the beach in Atlantic City, about 100 miles from Jersey City.
"I guess rather than just throw them in the garbage, maybe they thought they'd set them out to sea to bless these people," he said. "So they made a trip to Atlantic City, maybe went to a casino, and put the letters in the water."

The letters, wrapped in several smaller brown paper bags inside the larger plastic bag, did not appear to have been in the water too long, Lacovara said, though about half were too badly damaged to be legible.

He opened a few with his son, Rocky, on the beach. The first few were humorous.
"I'm still praying to hit the lottery twice: first the $50,000," one man wrote. "Than after some changes have taken place let me hit the millionaire."

Another asked God to make a certain someone "leave me alone and stay off my back," while still another asks God to calm a woman who "call the Internal Revenue on me."

One woman complained that her husband always talks about sex, and another writer anonymously dropped a dime to God on someone cheating on his wife, complete with dates, times and locations.

But those, Lacovara soon found, were the exception.


Many more were written by anguished spouses, children or widows, pouring out their hearts to God, asking for help with relatives who were using drugs, gambling or cheating on them. One man wrote from prison, saying he was innocent and wanted to be back home with his family. A woman wrote that her boyfriend was now closing the door to her daughter's bedroom each night when it used to stay open, and wondered why.

A teenager poured out her heart on yellow-lined paper in the curlicue pencil handwriting of a schoolgirl, begging God to forgive her and asking for a second chance.

"Lord, I know that I have had an abortion and I killed one of your angels," she wrote. "There is not a day that goes by that I don't think about the mistake I made."
One unwed mother wrote that her baby was due in four weeks, and asked God to make the father fall in love with her and marry her so the child would have a father. Lacovara said he is sad that most of the writers never had their letters read. But he
hopes to change that soon: He is putting the collection up for sale on eBay.

Article (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/unanswered_prayers)

piratemonkey
11-10-2006, 10:28 PM
What's more productive?

1) Asking a mythological father figure for supernatural help.

2) Actually doing something about your life and problems.

My vote is #2.

BoogyMan
11-10-2006, 11:02 PM
God NEVER told man to approach Him through writing a letter to a preacher, but through the avenue of prayer in the name of Christ.

I have to agree with pirate here, I wouldn't ask a mythical father figure for anything, I would however and do pray to the God of Heaven daily.

Mayberry
11-10-2006, 11:21 PM
Is it just me, or is this guy a complete scumbag selling these on ebay? I think he's got no right to do that. If I found them, I'd send them on to the church that they were mailed to. Weather you have faith or not, these people did. What a sad world it is when everything is about making a buck. Very sad.

cs0564
11-11-2006, 01:26 AM
He is putting the collection up for sale on eBay.


What a freakin dirtbag!

I pray to this "mystical Father" multiple times a day and he has made my life a much better place. Skeptics outta try it sometime!

Oh BTW, I have also done many things to make my life better! My God expects me too!

piratemonkey
11-11-2006, 02:00 PM
I pray to this "mystical Father" multiple times a day and he has made my life a much better place.Â*Â*Skeptics outta try it sometime!


Hey, you believe, pray. I have no problem with that.

But praying to an all-merciful God so that your life gets better seems incredibly selfish to me. There are literally millions of children starving every day in the world, so for a middle-class person in a 1st world country to ask God for anything seems against Jesus' teachings to me.

BoogyMan
11-11-2006, 02:21 PM
Hey, you believe, pray.Â*Â*I have no problem with that.

But praying to an all-merciful God so that your life gets better seems incredibly selfish to me.Â*Â*There are literally millions of children starving every day in the world, so for a middle-class person in a 1st world country to ask God for anything seems against Jesus' teachings to me.


Pirate, once again your commentary is based upon an assumption that you know what you truly don't and are applying radical liberal self loathing to the spiritual avenue of prayer.

Put up or shut up! Lets have a scripture that teaches what you just advocated.

piratemonkey
11-11-2006, 02:37 PM
Are you saying Jesus wants people to be selfish?

Or are you saying Jesus didn't tell people to help the poor?

BoogyMan
11-11-2006, 02:45 PM
Are you saying Jesus wants people to be selfish?

Or are you saying Jesus didn't tell people to help the poor?


Once again when presented with truth Pirate results to fallacy.

I will, this time, answer this foolishness.Â*Â*Jesus taught that we are to do good unto ALL men, especially those of the household of faith.Â*Â*Gal 6:10

The quite simple truth is that you are assuming selfish motives for approaching God through prayer, as assumption that belies your hatred for those of faith and your desire to tar them at every opportunity.Â*Â*

My commentary had NOTHING to do with whether or not Christ taught that we should help the poor, it dealt solely with your attempt to tar those of faith with a selfishness motive.

piratemonkey
11-11-2006, 05:24 PM
The quite simple truth is that you are assuming selfish motives for approaching God through prayer, as assumption that belies your hatred for those of faith and your desire to tar them at every opportunity.Â*Â*

Look back on what I wrote.

I said prayer is fine, if you are believer.

I said prayer for selfish reasons seemed against Jesus' teaching. That's true.

I assumed nothing about selfish motives. I read the article.

"I'm still praying to hit the lottery twice: first the $50,000," one man wrote. "Than after some changes have taken place let me hit the millionaire."

That's not selfish?

Prayer for worship or forgiveness makes sense, given typical Christian doctrine. Prayer to win the lottery is selfish.

What's to disagree about? I would have thought you'd agree with me on that point.

BoogyMan
11-11-2006, 05:30 PM
Pirate, you painted with a very broad brush in your commentary. Had you posted this much more reasonable and detailed explanation of your commentary in the first place I most likely would have had no problem with it.

Asking God to help make your life better is NOT selfish. Read back through your commentary prior to your last post and it is easy to see where my contention was fomented in your commentary.

piratemonkey
11-11-2006, 05:33 PM
Asking God to help make your life better is NOT selfish.Â*


How? I thought that was the definition of selfish.

BoogyMan
11-11-2006, 05:59 PM
Asking God to help make your life better is NOT selfish.Â*


How?Â*Â*I thought that was the definition of selfish.


The burden of proof is on you Pirate. God's word teaches us to pray to him for our needs in life. This is NOT selfish.

We have many examples of prayer:
Prayer for wisdom. James 1:5-8
Prayer for health. 2 Corinthians 12:7-9
Prayer for daily needs. Matthew 6:33
Prayer for help against temptation. Matthew 26:41

Alongisde our needs is our prayer for others:
Prayer for others. James 5:16, Acts 8:24, 2 Timothy 2:1

There is nothing selfish about prayer for ones own life. You could make a case for selfishness in the lottery question but that is not the way you originally framed your commentary.

dgridley
11-11-2006, 06:15 PM
That's a great story.. how touching and telling regarding these peoples lives.. thankfully God can read, even under water..

As far as prayer being selfish.. prayer helps acknowledge that God is in control of our lives. It's not selfish.. any "parent" wants to feel needed, God is no exception. :)

piratemonkey
11-11-2006, 06:43 PM
Examples in the Bible don't contradict the definition of the word "selfish."
self·ish (slfsh)
adj.
1. Concerned chiefly or only with oneself

It's selfish, by definition.

Now you can argue whether it's appropriate to be selfish in certain situations or not, but that doesn't change the fact that it's selfish.

Again, I don't think we disagree, here. I think we're using the word "selfish" in different ways. Your definition seems to have a more negative implication than mine.

BoogyMan
11-11-2006, 06:54 PM
Examples in the Bible don't contradict the definition of the word "selfish."
self·ishÂ*Â*(slfsh)
adj.
1. Concerned chiefly or only with oneself

It's selfish, by definition.

Now you can argue whether it's appropriate to be selfish in certain situations or not, but that doesn't change the fact that it's selfish.

Again, I don't think we disagree, here.Â*Â*I think we're using the word "selfish" in different ways.Â*Â*Your definition seems to have a more negative implication than mine.


You couldn't be farther from right on this Pirate. An act of prayer for self does not negate the other actions in ones life, nor does is make one "concerned chiefly or only with oneself." I pray as outlined for you above and yet I spend many hours in service to others on a weekly basis.

The logic you are trying to use ignores the other avenues of helping people as well as the fact that we not only pray for self but for others as well.

underdawg
11-11-2006, 07:23 PM
Somehow this story made me feel quite sad. Reguardless of whether I believe in God or not, these various people did. Some poured out their hearts in these letters asking for forgiveness, help, comfort, or whatever. Out of respect for these people's wishes, I think the letters should be returned to where they were meant to be sent, buried, or destroyed . There is just something tacky and in poor taste about selling these letters on ebay. I don't think they intended for their private thoughts to be bought and sold over the internet.

cs0564
11-11-2006, 09:47 PM
But praying to an all-merciful God so that your life gets better seems incredibly selfish to me.Â*Â*There are literally millions of children starving every day in the world, so for a middle-class person in a 1st world country to ask God for anything seems against Jesus' teachings to me.


Nothing selfish about praying for our president, or our troops, or the family down the street, or that God to look over those in need or trouble, or if those have medical reason, or if you have something going on in your life that needs spiritual guidance. I will agree though that winning the lottery or a new car or wealth and prosperity are too much.


Confess your faults one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much. James 5:6


And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD. Joshua 24:15

Technocrat
11-12-2006, 01:49 AM
It is self-interested for the very reason that you are doing it to benefit yourself.

That's the actual term that ought to be used. You can be a good person and want to do something for yourself. You aren't a selfish person, but are, at the time, acting self-interestedly.

If all you do all day is run around praying that God give you everything you want, that's selfish behaviour.

cs0564
11-12-2006, 01:58 AM
It is self-interested for the very reason that you are doing it to benefit yourself.

That's the actual term that ought to be used. You can be a good person and want to do something for yourself. You aren't a selfish person, but are, at the time, acting self-interestedly.

If all you do all day is run around praying that God give you everything you want, that's selfish behaviour.


I see your logic, but to a believer it is more than logic. It is faith! Praying for nonsense though is just that!