mccain and obama's positives..

[bishop]

if i were to solely focus on their campaign rhetoric and overlook their poor records, there are pieces of both mccain and obama that i like very much. it's a shame that we couldn't combine the two...


for mccain, his energy policy is by far the better of the two. i have no objection to new drilling in our territory - it is far safer for the environment than importing via tanker, would produce jobs and would allow us to satisfy a small portion of our energy needs on our own. (it should also be considered as a second strategic reserve.) at the same time, mccain seems to be a genuine supporter of alternative energy - not that i have faith that he would follow through with these campaign promises when/if elected. he doesn't want to raid my paycheck with new taxes, and might even launch a "war on pork", which is sorely needed. in all the polls i've ever seen, americans support these positions.

for obama, his foreign policy represents a fundamental shift in a better direction. he has proven to have good judgement in foreign affairs and would exert a degree of leadership that the country hasn't seen in a long time. world leaders who would be tempted to try and walk all over the new kid on the block, would quickly realize that he does have backbone - supported by a vice president whose foreign policy experience is unmatched. i like the idea of talking to our enemies, trying to resolve issues through diplomacy, focusing on genuinely strategic objectives rather than quagmires, etc... and again, in the polls that i've seen, americans also support these positions.

too bad mccain/obama don't support both of them. also too bad they support empire, deficit spending, big government, illegal immigration..

[Osborn F. Enready]

Bishop said:
if i were to solely focus on their campaign rhetoric and overlook their poor records, there are pieces of both mccain and obama that i like very much. it's a shame that we couldn't combine the two...

I agree. Both have the POTENTIAL to be good presidents, but their party loyalty and warped views of the role of government completely disfigure any chance of that happening.

Bishop said:
also too bad they support empire, deficit spending, big government, illegal immigration..


...'xactly.

[bishop]

believe me, i am no supporter of either man. the main point i was trying to make is that they each have positions that appeal to the vast majority of the country - but their position on other issues is equally opposed by the country.

mccain's move to very publicly acknowledge that global warming is reality was a very big risk - especially as the republican flock has tried to sweep the issue under the rug for decades.. it's a move that appeals to broad sections of the country, rather than solely to "conservatives". (a president who tries to appeal to the entire country - what a concept!)

oppositely, i don't think that any of obama's positions buck the party's platform.. i.e., he hasn't shown the same capacity to accept political risk when it represents a better decision. in this case, having a comprehensive energy policy that includes drilling is such a risk he should take, but has failed to take..

[PostmodernProphet]

[Obama] has proven to have good judgement in foreign affairs
....when?.......

[bishop]

for starters, he never supported invading iraq.

whether you can accept it or not, the majority of the country believes that this was a mistake. hindsight is always 20/20, but occassionally you find someone who also has clarity of foresight...

[Osborn F. Enready]

I look at it like this Bishop, and I think when you reduce it down, it stands fairly true and representative.

The dems push for social liberty (usually) while pushing for economic totalitarianism....
The reps push for social totalitarianism (usually) while pushing for economic liberty.....

Its a two party system set up to turn the people against themselves, as the tug of war over "compromise" is over the rights we all hold dear, and are recognized as unalienable.

They are both tricking the American sheeple to sacrifice fundamental necessities, being individual rights, and with every election each party increases their use of force in the world, as well as against their own citizens, to push their agenda.

Both parties consider "bi-partisan agreement" to be "fair", though both parties work dilligently to construct false barriers to ballot access, media access, funding access for all parties not one of the two major parties. Their grip on power has been solely and exclusively due to obvious manipulation of the voting system, bi-partisan refusal to fix it while working exclusively to make it worse....... yet they CLAIM they are working in our best intrests.

Its criminal treason from my perspective, worthy of public hanging of all these scumbags after due process under a non-partisan court most likely would find them all guilty.

[bishop]

i see it the same way, and feel that they play on peoples' fears more than anything else. democrats get people afraid that republicans will create take all your rights away, eliminate your job, make you dirt poor.. republicans get people thinking that the government will take your paycheck, while the boogeyman is out hunting for babies to eat.. divide and conquer is the oldest trick in the book - probably because it works so incredibly well.. people seem paralyzed by this fear, and politicians and the elite are given a free pass. it's been a very long time since the american public asserted their rule over their own country.

also, we have had presidents who had the capacity to unite the country - kennedy and reagan of "recent" years... and in order to unite the country you need to have both excellent communication skills as well as excellent policies. without both, you don't have the leadership the country needs.

[Muser]

if i were to solely focus on their campaign rhetoric and overlook their poor records, there are pieces of both mccain and obama that i like very much. it's a shame that we couldn't combine the two...


for mccain, his energy policy is by far the better of the two. i have no objection to new drilling in our territory - it is far safer for the environment than importing via tanker, would produce jobs and would allow us to satisfy a small portion of our energy needs on our own. (it should also be considered as a second strategic reserve.) at the same time, mccain seems to be a genuine supporter of alternative energy - not that i have faith that he would follow through with these campaign promises when/if elected. he doesn't want to raid my paycheck with new taxes, and might even launch a "war on pork", which is sorely needed. in all the polls i've ever seen, americans support these positions.

for obama, his foreign policy represents a fundamental shift in a better direction. he has proven to have good judgement in foreign affairs and would exert a degree of leadership that the country hasn't seen in a long time. world leaders who would be tempted to try and walk all over the new kid on the block, would quickly realize that he does have backbone - supported by a vice president whose foreign policy experience is unmatched. i like the idea of talking to our enemies, trying to resolve issues through diplomacy, focusing on genuinely strategic objectives rather than quagmires, etc... and again, in the polls that i've seen, americans also support these positions.

too bad mccain/obama don't support both of them. also too bad they support empire, deficit spending, big government, illegal immigration..

Extremely and succinctly well-stated, bishop! My sentiments, exactly.

Once Paul was no longer an option, I looked long and hard at both Rep&Dem candidates. McCain I positively cannot tolerate watching - his pompousness and fake "my friends" smile quite literally turns my stomach; credit to Obama for being infinitely easier on the ears and eyes. And just as I start leaning towards one (or the other) because of a particular stated (or voted) policy, I'm reminded again of the rest of the 94.7% unConstitutional garbage they'd bring to the game.

My mind narrows down to one fundamental question: Which would I rather have: Marxism or facism?

I'd prefer neither, so my choice is to either not vote (my preference thus far), or vote for 3rd-party Barr (not so bad, but meh). I won't decide one way or another until the day before election day - assuming I can buy my own self-told lie that my vote actually matters.

[bishop]

i really do want to stay home as well, but i don't want to be part of the problem.. if all those disgruntled voters went out and cast a vote for something other than the establishment, we'd be well on our way to true change.

[Milton Bradley]

i really do want to stay home as well, but i don't want to be part of the problem.. if all those disgruntled voters went out and cast a vote for something other than the establishment, we'd be well on our way to true change.


Congratulations, you have successfully navigated the intentional mind fuck laid out by the two headed beast.


Now you know what to do.


Do it!


Let the bipartisans blame each other for all of the stolen votes.


:evil:

[PostmodernProphet]

double post

[PostmodernProphet]

for starters, he never supported invading iraq.

whether you can accept it or not, the majority of the country believes that this was a mistake. hindsight is always 20/20, but occassionally you find someone who also has clarity of foresight...

okay....for "starters" you have a decision on Iraq that the left accepts and the right rejects.....what do you have for the second course?.....he knows how to order wine in French?.....

besides, be honest....he didn't reach his choice on Iraq for foreign policy reasons, he reached it for domestic policy reasons.....

[4Reaganomics]

The only positive I can think of with Obama is that he won't write Pakistan a blank check for absolutely ZERO results in the hunt for Bin Laden.

11 billion dollars a month, lets go into the tribal regions and get this bastard

McCain wants to follow him to the gates of hell, why don't we start by showing up where the man is actually at and taking him captive?

[Milton Bradley]

besides, be honest....he didn't reach his choice on Iraq for foreign policy reasons, he reached it for domestic policy reasons.....


What foreign policy should we have besides non intervention?

[PostmodernProphet]

What foreign policy should we have besides non intervention?

how about not letting a country gain the ability to control 80% of the world's oil.........

[bishop]

okay....for "starters" you have a decision on Iraq that the left accepts and the right rejects.....what do you have for the second course?.....he knows how to order wine in French?.....

besides, be honest....he didn't reach his choice on Iraq for foreign policy reasons, he reached it for domestic policy reasons.....

i don't deal in the idiocy of left vs. right, sorry - i'll leave that to the sheep.. a majority of the nation believes that the war was a mistake.

as for this allegation that he opposed the war because of domestic policy reasons, please provide some proof for this b.s. you're peddling.

[Milton Bradley]

how about not letting a country gain the ability to control 80% of the world's oil.........


Hmmm, I see, and by doing so, you have just become what you fear, and others would be right to percieve you as the threat.


Correct?

[bishop]

i wonder if after the GOP convention, if republican followers are all warm and tingly after mccain's speech.

going back to my original complaint in the OP, it would seem that the mccain supporters have nothing to add to the debate other than parroting the palin tabloids. let's forget all about their records and just focus on the gossip and mud... sad how both groups vote for a corrupt oligopaly and don't even realize it.

[Milton Bradley]

i wonder if after the GOP convention, if republican followers are all warm and tingly after mccain's speech.


You know they are.


going back to my original complaint in the OP, it would seem that the mccain supporters have nothing to add to the debate other than parroting the palin tabloids. let's forget all about their records and just focus on the gossip and mud... sad how both groups vote for a corrupt oligopaly and don't even realize it.


More, and more I am starting to think they really do realize what they're doing.


You know, it is so satisfying for them to stick it to anybody, they just feel they need to keep sticking to everybody else until they eventaully surrender.


Like cops on a power trip, they're gonna rough up this prisoner until they get caught, and there are consequences for their actions.


At least I can't imagine these people not being that petty. Remember, I'm talking to them.