Olympic MMA?

[PatrickHenry]

How long until the Olympics capitalizes on the world's fascination with MMA?

They have boxing, wrestling, Judo, fencing...

What we really need is some good hard fighting...

[AnnEsthesia]

What is MMA?

[Buck Laser]

Mixed Martial Arts. I am amazed that I know this, but I happened to see a mention of it today.

[AnnEsthesia]

Oh.. bloody sports stuff I assume?

[Osborn F. Enready]

I think MMA would be a great, and NATURAL addition to the Olympic games, borrowing from its heritage.

UFC, Pride Fighting are examples of MMA.

[AnnEsthesia]

Ick. Too bloody. No thanks.

[Osborn F. Enready]

AnnE said:
Ick. Too bloody. No thanks.

Have you ever seen some of the balance beam injuries? Weightlifting?

Competition and Risk go hand-in-hand.

[Sirk]

UFC is stupid and gross and trashy.


But I have to admit that this gets me hot. :embarrased:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YPfLReBmycU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ncgRLjy3d0c

[AnnEsthesia]

Have you ever seen some of the balance beam injuries? Weightlifting?

Competition and Risk go hand-in-hand.

Uh... those are ACCIDENTS. Ultimate fighting type stuff is ALL about scoring hits and drawing blood. Apples and oranges!

[Stoner]

If they do MMA in the Olympics Brazil will win almost every time hands down.

[Osborn F. Enready]

AnnE said:
Uh... those are ACCIDENTS. Ultimate fighting type stuff is ALL about scoring hits and drawing blood. Apples and oranges!

No.

Performing any sport at maximum effort and ability is dangerous in and of itself.

MMA is about a contest of fighting styles that are from cultural histories of the world. As the sport has grown, they had to grow the audience enough to support the payouts these atheletes deserve for taking the risks, putting out the effort and putting forth the dedication it takes to do justice to the fighting styles they represent.

MMA changed world unarmed combat, much like many of the other sports that founded the Olympics, they changed the world.

The "POINT" is not to draw blood, not to maim or injure your opponent.

The "POINT" is to impose your will onto your opponent, the goal in doing this is to do it without taking injury or injuring yourself in the process.

As with all contact sports, there is of course CONTACT which can draw blood.... but that is not the goal.


I hate it when people try to reduce something so respected and so meticulous as a "savage" or "barbaric" sport, when its actually the field of science being applied to unarmed combat as styles, or portions of them prove more effective than others... hybrid styles are then created.

[Osborn F. Enready]

Stoner said:
If they do MMA in the Olympics Brazil will win almost every time hands down.

I'd put money against that....

Fedor Emelianenko shows a fine example of the hyrbid styles that are now overtaking MMA. Brazillian Jujitsu has many strengths, and may be one of the best singular styles, but it has many weaknesses.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fedor_Emelianenko

[Stoner]

Fedor Emelianenko shows a fine example of the hyrbid styles that are now overtaking MMA.

Fedor is the exception to the rule. He is a freak. Without a doubt the best fighter on the planet.

Brazillian Jujitsu has many strengths, and may be one of the best singular styles, but it has many weaknesses.

I have to stop you there. In street fighting BJJs only weakness is multiple attackers. In MMA it reigns supreme. Every fighter in the UFC today learns at least a little BJJ. Most of your top fighters and champions are BJJ practitioners. I've taken BJJ for almost 15 years. I wouldn't trade it in for any other style. It is hands down the best discipline on the planet.

[Milton Bradley]

If they do MMA in the Olympics Brazil will win almost every time hands down.


Somebody is iving in the past. THe Brazillian reign is over.


Also, MMA was part of the original olympic games, only then it was called pancration.

[Milton Bradley]

Really, when you think about it, bringing MMA to the olympics wouldn't add any additional ecitement, it's alreay an international competition. It would just change the venue.

[Osborn F. Enready]

I disagree Milty....

It is international already, but there is no thrill like that of winning for your nation of origin or preferred living in an international competition. (at least, I would assume since many say that and I tend to think I would also)

[Stoner]

Somebody is iving in the past. THe Brazillian reign is over.



Negative. BJJ will never be outdated. It's too supreme and far too practical. It's very difficult to prevent someone from taking you to the ground. When the fight ends up on the mat it's over. The Gracie's proved this when the UFC originated.

MMA as well as the UFC have evoloved tremendously. Nowadays virtually all fighters train at least a little in BJJ. You have to know BJJ to be competitive in a fight. If you don't know BJJ and are matched against a fighter who specializes in it you're not going to have a prayer.

This isn't even up for argument. It's been proven over and over and over in MMA.

[Osborn F. Enready]

Stoner said:
Negative. BJJ will never be outdated. It's too supreme and far too practical.

LOL....

But, as we know, you are biased....as you admitted above, which taints your objective view of the situation.

No offense, I like Chevys better than any other car... but they really aren't the best carmaker out there, and I would say that is directly related to your bias on this issue.

Stoner said:
It's very difficult to prevent someone from taking you to the ground.

No, its not. Its actually pretty basic of having a good base and knowing how to defend against it.

Stoner said:
When the fight ends up on the mat it's over. The Gracie's proved this when the UFC originated.

And then they fell from the top like a stone as new hybrid styles emerged.....

Stoner said:
MMA as well as the UFC have evoloved tremendously.

Agreed.

Stoner said:
Nowadays virtually all fighters train at least a little in BJJ. You have to know BJJ to be competitive in a fight. If you don't know BJJ and are matched against a fighter who specializes in it you're not going to have a prayer.

Simply false. Many of the techniques in BJJ exist in other forms of self-defense techniques.... Granted, BJJ is a great style, one of the best pure styles... but in comparison to a hybrid style it is as faulty as any pure style.

Stoner said:
This isn't even up for argument. It's been proven over and over and over in MMA.

Yes, obviously it is open for argument.

BJJ has made a good showing in all fighting venues, but it is not the best, nor bulletproof.
If it was, everybody would ONLY be studying BJJ........that isn't the case.

[Stoner]

I was going to respond to Osbourne's post but there are far too many unknowledgable opinions you've posted. At some point you can't even debate someone. It would be like a NASA scientist trying to debate me on nuclear physics. It's clear you have zero martial arts experience. Sorry, it takes more than watching the UFC to have a discussion about BJJ.

If you'd like we can discuss specific moves and tecniques in BJJ since you're an expert.

Bottom line BJJ has been and will always reign supreme in martial arts. All fighters take BJJ in MMA today. It's vital for them. You're confusing the term "hybrid." It's called cross-training. Non BJJ fighters can not hang with pure BJJ specialists.

[Osborn F. Enready]

Spare me the insults Stoner.

I accept your cop out to address my points as admission, or agreement to disagree.

[Stoner]

Spare me the insults Stoner.

I accept your cop out to address my points as admission, or agreement to disagree.

Your "points" are invalid. You have no experience on the topic. Your "points" are mute. When you've taken some BJJ lessons let me know and we'll continue the discussion.

No, its not. Its actually pretty basic of having a good base and knowing how to defend against it.


When you said it was easy to defend against takedowns I knew there was no point in debating you further on the topic. Here's a fighter who had your attitude and "opinion" on takedowns. And Royce could have ended this fight a lot sooner. He was toying with him the entire fight.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JjK0g-cDJI4

Tell me why these guys couldn't defend takedowns seeing it's "so easy." Royce was extremely good at taking people down. Watch how he shoots in with ease. And he's not even the best Gracie.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_vGVKMPs-fs

[Osborn F. Enready]

Stoner said:
Your "points" are invalid.

You can SHOW THAT ACCUSATION through proof, something you obviously can't do, or don't understand. Instead, you resort to insults, which pretty much shows that you have no intrest in the truth, only in feeling like you are right regardless of the facts.

Stoner said:
You have no experience on the topic.

Really? Please detail my experience for me.....from birth to present please.

It shouldn't be hard since you think you know.....

Stoner said:
Your "points" are mute. When you've taken some BJJ lessons let me know and we'll continue the discussion.

False assumption. One does not have to be a soldier to understand the role, techniques or specificity of the military.... much like one does not have to be a BJJ student to understand the role, techniques or specificity of BJJ.....

Stoner said:
When you said it was easy to defend against takedowns I knew there was no point in debating you further on the topic.

It is easy to defend against, if you know how to, train to, and are prepared to.

Stoner said:
Here's a fighter who had your attitude and "opinion" on takedowns.

And also a lack of experience, showing that his words were just hollow strokes of ego as opposed to actually knowing what he was up against. He obviously doesn't know how to sprawl, nor has he practiced the technique.

The sprawl is a great defense that can lead to other openings against your opponent, as well as the knee is a great defense on the shoot in the form of striking.


Stoner said:
And Royce could have ended this fight a lot sooner. He was toying with him the entire fight.

That usually happens when two fighters meet and one is not prepared correctly.


Stoner said:
Tell me why these guys couldn't defend takedowns seeing it's "so easy." Royce was extremely good at taking people down. Watch how he shoots in with ease. And he's not even the best Gracie.

I am well aware of the Gracies.... been following them since the UFC debuted.

Are we going to have a contest of videos now? Please.....

If you don't want to acknowledge the sprawl and knee are defenses to the takedown, I don't know what to tell you except you are in denial.

These are some great examples of the ease of resisting a takedown.....if you know how.

Basic instructional.....variations on a theme....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=57w6t4Wp0O4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XA-1bcutbmE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d3xFf_QmjxA&feature=related

Several examples.....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FTs9pgCHQ7U


No offense Stoner, but you are proving your lack of objectivity here. ;)

[Truth_and_Power]

I just watched women's field hockey and that is the dumbest sport ever. Bunch of hunchbacks running around fighting over a rotten apple.

[G.B.]

It would be like a NASA scientist trying to debate me on nuclear physics.

Wow Stoner,

I didn't know you were versed in nuclear physics! What are your thoughts as regards the use of fast vs. thermal neutrons for a power reactor? We can open a thread in the proper forum if you'd like!

[Osborn F. Enready]

G.B. said:
Wow Stoner,

I didn't know you were versed in nuclear physics! What are your thoughts as regards the use of fast vs. thermal neutrons for a power reactor? We can open a thread in the proper forum if you'd like!

;)

I wasn't going to touch that comment for fear of being called on it.... not my field, but still recognized it for what it was....

[PatrickHenry]

Can we get this thread back on topic please?

The discussion is MMA in the Olympics...not nuclear physics, field hockey, or the relative merits of various fighting styles.

Do you think the IOC would even be willing to consider MMA? Or would they have the same ignorant opinions that we have seen from our forum members who have to ask what MMA stands for?

MMA certainly seems to be growing in international credibility. I foresee a decline in boxing's audience, at least in the USA, as more of us begin to understand the power and precision of using every physical skill to cause the opponent to submit (or go unconscious.)

It's an international sport...no doubt about that. And many nations' national fighting styles have a part in modern MMA.

Interesting thing, Stoner... even US-dominated sports like baseball and basketball can be taken by another nation in the Olympics. It's all in how much you want it and how much you train.

[Stoner]

I see you looked up what sprawling was. Good for you. There's 2 major defenses for preventing takedowns...sprawling and underhooks. You have to use those in unison to be effective. Even when used perfectly, it's extremely difficult to prevent someone from taking you to the mat.

If preventing takedowns was so easy the 15-year, undefeated kung-fu fighter in the video would have had no problem stopping Royce from taking him to the floor. Gracie did it with supreme ease.

Bottom line - preventing takedowns is extremely difficult. If it was easy BJJ fighters would be extinct in martial arts. They're not. They are the top fighters in MMA.

Let me know when you've taken some BJJ classes. Better yet, tell me a major city where you live near and I can reccomend some top instructors for you.

I'm here to help.

[Stoner]

Interesting thing, Stoner... even US-dominated sports like baseball and basketball can be taken by another nation in the Olympics. It's all in how much you want it and how much you train.

Absolutely. Basketball is huge proof of that.

However, Patrick, in MMA BJJ is arguably the best one-on-one style. And Brazilians are the founders and greatest practitioners. There's no doubt they would dominate the Olympics if they made it an event.

Here's an article, Patrick, from a blog from UFC president Dana White. He's extremely confident MMA will be in the Olympics.

http://mmamania.com/2007/06/29/dana-white-mma-in-olympics-will-happen/

[Osborn F. Enready]

Stoner said:
I see you looked up what sprawling was. Good for you. There's 2 major defenses for preventing takedowns...sprawling and underhooks. You have to use those in unison to be effective. Even when used perfectly, it's extremely difficult to prevent someone from taking you to the mat.

If preventing takedowns was so easy the 15-year, undefeated kung-fu fighter in the video would have had no problem stopping Royce from taking him to the floor. Gracie did it with supreme ease.

Bottom line - preventing takedowns is extremely difficult. If it was easy BJJ fighters would be extinct in martial arts. They're not. They are the top fighters in MMA.

Let me know when you've taken some BJJ classes. Better yet, tell me a major city where you live near and I can reccomend some top instructors for you.

I'm here to help.

Spare me the condecension. I am comfortable with my knowledge, and using it to prove your lack of objectivity here should have shown that.

If you ever make it to NW Ohio, I think my brother would enjoy a spar or two....I prefer ARMED defense.... you live longer and with less joint pains.

[Stoner]

Spare me the condecension. I am comfortable with my knowledge, and using it to prove your lack of objectivity here should have shown that.

If you ever make it to NW Ohio, I think my brother would enjoy a spar or two

Ohio. Last time I was in that shithole was in 97. If I ever get up that way I'll shoot you an email.

In the meantime if your brother ever gets out near Akron have him look up Eduardo Barros' academy. Tell him to walk in and tell them that it's easy to defend takedowns. Make sure you bring a camcorder.

[Osborn F. Enready]

Stoner said:
Ohio. Last time I was in that shithole was in 97. If I ever get up that way I'll shoot you an email.

In the meantime if your brother ever gets out near Akron have him look up Eduardo Barros' academy. Tell him to walk in and tell them that it's easy to defend takedowns. Make sure you bring a camcorder.

Roger that. If he does, I will post it assuming I have his permission.

;)

[Stoner]

Roger that. If he does, I will post it assuming I have his permission.

;)

Hoorah!

Now back on Patrick's thread. I believe MMA will be an Olympic sport. If anyone can get it done it's Dana White. I love Dana. One hell of a president. He completely turned around the UFC. When it was sold he even said it was a horrible investment for the buyers. However Dana worked his magic and turned it into what it is today. He's a brilliant businessman and marketer. Dana comes from old-school boxing and is evident in his decisions he makes for the UFC. He is committed to bring fans the best fighters in the world (still working on that damn Fedor thing) in the fights the fans want to see.

UFC will surpass boxing in the not-so-far-away future. So yes, I think you will see MMA in the Olympics and Dana White will have at least a small part of it.

[PatrickHenry]

Here's a question...

Does the UFC hold the rights to the Octagon?

IMO, Octagon arenas are essential for a proper MMA bout.

[Stoner]

Here's a question...

Does the UFC hold the rights to the Octagon?

IMO, Octagon arenas are essential for a proper MMA bout.

I'm not speaking with absolute knowledge but no. I've seen MMA fights in other circuits that were in the octagon.

Pride doesn't fight in an octagon. It can be different for fighters to adjust to an octagon. Look at Mirko Cro Cop. He was a devastating fighter in Pride but never adjusted in the UFC.

It's a good point to bring up, Patrick. If they do allow it in the Olympics they'll have to decide if it will be a ring or octagon. It makes a huge difference from a tactical standpoint.

[PatrickHenry]

I'm not speaking with absolute knowledge but no. I've seen MMA fights in other circuits that were in the octagon.

Pride doesn't fight in an octagon. It can be different for fighters to adjust to an octagon. Look at Mirko Cro Cop. He was a devastating fighter in Pride but never adjusted in the UFC.

It's a good point to bring up, Patrick. If they do allow it in the Olympics they'll have to decide if it will be a ring or octagon. It makes a huge difference from a tactical standpoint.
I found this: http://www.ufc.com/index.cfm?fa=LearnUFC.FactSheet
The Octagon™
The octagonal competition mat and cage design are registered trademarks and/or trade dress of Zuffa, LLC and are symbolic of the highest quality mixed martial arts events brought to you under the Ultimate Fighting Championship® brand name. In 1993, UFC events were the first to feature an eight-sided competition configuration which has become known worldwide as the UFC Octagon™

The UFC Octagon™ is unique from any other fighting arena because the octagonal shape and structure have become inherently associated with Zuffa and the UFC brand name among mixed martial arts consumers, other mixed martial arts organizations and the national media. The UFC Octagon is regularly featured on UFC Pay-per-view events, UFC® Fight Night™ and The Ultimate Fighter® reality TV series. The UFC Octagon™ creates a neutral arena to showcase the skills of UFC mixed martial arts athletes. The UFC organization has established a reputation for providing the maximum safety to the fighters with commission approved ring structures, canvas, and all safety padding and fences. Zuffa makes major investments to ensure the safety of competitors in the UFC Octagon -- as a result, when people see the Octagon they associate it with the reputation and quality delivered only by Zuffa at UFC events.

[Stoner]

I find it odd that the UFC can patent a shape, lol.

Must be something else to it because I have DVDs of non-UFC events that are in the octagon.

Not sure.

[PatrickHenry]

I agree, Stoner. Shapes seem to be creations of nature...how can you patent that?

And I am unsure of the entity known as Zuffa, LLC. Are they the owners of The Octagon™ as an apparatus and UFC licenses it from them? Or what?

In any case, I am sure that the IOC could come to an agreement regarding using the stuff essential for MMA competition. It's all about negotiation and money.

[Stoner]

And I am unsure of the entity known as Zuffa, LLC. Are they the owners of The Octagon™ as an apparatus and UFC licenses it from them? Or what?


Zuffa is a sports promotion company specializing in martial arts. They own the UFC. The Fertitta brothers are the bigwigs of it. Dana White is their president.