worsethanbush.org Change to Win

[Leslie]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SipQto5WHfw

WorseThanBush.org has been created in conjunction with the Change to Win Truth Squad: 10 workers traveling across 10 states to spread the truth about what a John McCain presidency would mean for working Americans and the entire nation. This campaign is part of the 2008 political program of Change to Win, a labor organization representing six million members, united to bring the American Dream to America’s workers.
http://worsethanbush.org/


Reflecting a much more creative and confrontational approach to the presidential campaign, Change to Win, the major labor organization, is launching a "truth squad" that will hold demonstrations and protests of John McCain in ten key battleground states.

The group, which is comprised of seven unions and six million workers, started its effort on Monday with an event at McCain's campaign offices in Reno, Nevada, in which volunteers dressed as grim reapers with McCain masks staged a "foreclosure funeral."

http://images.huffingtonpost.com/gen/34791/thumbs/s-FUNERAL-large.jpg

The method seems designed to drive local media coverage as much as it is meant to change voter perceptions. But the targeted geographic regions are certainly influential. All told, Change to Win's truth squad, which will be made up of nine workers, will make 19 separate stops.

The first leg will see them host another foreclosure funeral in Las Vegas (in which workers will trout out a coffin filled with mortgage statements); a rally for Jim Gibbons, the embattled Nevada governor who used a state cell phone to text message his mistress, in Carson City (McCain has called Gibbons a "great governor"); and a "Yucca Mountain Disaster Prep," to highlight McCain's support for storing nuclear waste in Yucca, in Pahrump, Nevada.

After Labor Day, the group will head to Minnesota, Wisconsin, Iowa, Missouri, Michigan, Ohio and Pennsylvania. They also have launched a website, WorseThanBush.org, that will host additional information pertinent to the campaign, including testimonies from struggling workers who have objections to McCain's policy record.

"It's time for some truth about who John McCain really is and what a McCain presidency would mean for America's workers," said Anna Burger, chair of Change to Win. "Change to Win's Truth Squad is standing up to John McCain's campaign of distortion, which disguises a Bush-inspired agenda that will bankrupt our economy for four more years. At the same time, the Squad is standing up for Barack Obama whose presidency will help build a new American Dream for working families by delivering the change our members desperately need on the issues that matter most - the economy and jobs, health care and workers' rights."

Link (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/08/18/labor-group-deploys-confr_n_119642.html)

[Osborn F. Enready]

I don't necessarily disagree with their sentiments about McCain...but their pushing Obama, which only means they only know half of the truth, if that much.

[ECW]

Exposing the lies that McCain tells everyday on the stump is vital to the public seeing what a flip-flopping Washington politician McCain was and still is. The media's reporters are still in love with the McCain of 2000 and have not come to grips with the seminal fact that he is actually not John McCain anymore but more of a John W. McBush.

This is a great move. I love the Grim Reaper thing.

[PostmodernProphet]

I find it interesting that the Democratic campaign has deteriorated into nothing more than a series of petty "lying" claims.....they spend hours pouring over McCain's statements trying to find something they can label a lie.....they ought to be using that time trying to come up with a positive direction for the country......

[Osborn F. Enready]

PMP said:
I find it interesting that the Democratic campaign has deteriorated into nothing more than a series of petty "lying" claims.....they spend hours pouring over McCain's statements trying to find something they can label a lie.....they ought to be using that time trying to come up with a positive direction for the country......

... or at least spend the same amount of manpower pouring over the lies, pandering and propaganda that comes from their OWN PARTIES mouths.

Truly, I don't want either party making plans for America.... that is what got us in this very deep hole we are in now.

[ECW]

I find it interesting that the Democratic campaign has deteriorated into nothing more than a series of petty "lying" claims.....they spend hours pouring over McCain's statements trying to find something they can label a lie.....they ought to be using that time trying to come up with a positive direction for the country......

Yeah, we did that and all you could come up with was a lot of Karl Rove inspired material about all kinds of shit like Hawaiian birth certificates, coverting to Islam, his middle name, living in Indonesia, and a hundred other non-issues that clogged up the Internet byways for months. Now, when the tables are turned and the shit gets thrown back at you you all of a sudden want to take the high road? Give me a fucking break.

Ripping your opponent a new one is a time honored republican tactic that the Left is just now catching on to. Welcome to your world, pal.

[Blueneck]

I find it interesting that the Democratic campaign has deteriorated into nothing more than a series of petty "lying" claims.....they spend hours pouring over McCain's statements trying to find something they can label a lie.....they ought to be using that time trying to come up with a positive direction for the country......Well let's discuss the truth about McCain. we know, for example, that he wants to send NATO troops to Georgia, and bomb Iran. He's willing to occupy Iraq for indefinitely.

How are we supposed to pay for all this?

[Osborn F. Enready]

Blueneck said:
Well let's discuss the truth about McCain. we know, for example, that he wants to send NATO troops to Georgia, and bomb Iran. He's willing to occupy Iraq for indefinitely.

How are we supposed to pay for all this?

LOL....

Well let's discuss the truth about Obama. We know, for example, that he wants to use force against one group of Americans (what he calls "the rich") in order to bring up the lives of other Americans, through wealth redistribution.
He's willing to ignore constitutional rights, his oath of office, claims that he is violating American civil liberties to talk about installing such plans, including those of universal healthcare, limiting the 2nd amendment, voter choice, etc.

How are we supposed to abide by this, when it directly contradicts american values, individual rights and THE LAW OF THE LAND?


America can start to heal when the sheeple stop buying into the bi-partisan lie, and stop voting for bi-partisan criminals when non-criminals are running outside those parties who are focused on the destruction of individual rights.

[Blueneck]

LOL....

Well let's discuss the truth about Obama. We know, for example, that he wants to use force against one group of Americans (what he calls "the rich") in order to bring up the lives of other Americans, through wealth redistribution.
He's willing to ignore constitutional rights, his oath of office, claims that he is violating American civil liberties to talk about installing such plans, including those of universal healthcare, limiting the 2nd amendment, voter choice, etc.

How are we supposed to abide by this, when it directly contradicts american values, individual rights and THE LAW OF THE LAND?


America can start to heal when the sheeple stop buying into the bi-partisan lie, and stop voting for bi-partisan criminals when non-criminals are running outside those parties who are focused on the destruction of individual rights.
So your big complaint is that he plans to rescind the tax breaks that GW Bush gave to the wealthy right before he ran up a record deficit with the help from the nest of Republican scum that inhabited Washington for 4 years?

Let me guess. We should dissolve Social Security, Medicare and welfare and use whatever funds are in there to pay off the debt. And if there's anything left over we should use it to buy some more really cool high tech weaponry that probably doesn't work so you can feel safe.:scared:

Spending our tax money on missile defense in Poland is wealth distribution. Taking from the middle class and giving to Halliburton is wealth distribution.

I know you think you criticize both sides equally, but you don't. You and all other conservatives only criticize Obama. How dare he rob from the rich and give to the poor instead of the other way around.

[Leslie]

Spending our tax money on missile defense in Poland is wealth distribution. Taking from the middle class and giving to Halliburton is wealth distribution.



:thumbsup:

[Osborn F. Enready]

Blueneck said:
So your big complaint is that he plans to rescind the tax breaks that GW Bush gave to the wealthy right before he ran up a record deficit with the help from the nest of Republican scum that inhabited Washington for 4 years?

No, I don't think you read my post very well....

My big problem is that Obama and McCain are traitors to their oath, their constituents, and the Constitution of the United States.

The issues I brought up were a couple out of hundreds......but the MAIN issue behind all of those tangential issues is ABUSE OF GOVERNMENT FORCE AGAINST CITIZENS OF THE UNITED STATES BY BOTH PARTIES, and CONSCIOUSLY AND WITH FULL KNOWLEDGE OF THE LAW, WORKING TO BREAK THE LAW IN BOTH LEGISLATION AND PROPOSED BILLS.

You are missing the point entirely.... this is FORCED WEALTH REDISTRIBUTION, which is a DIRECT violation of the constitution and bill of rights.

Blueneck said:
Let me guess. We should dissolve Social Security, Medicare and welfare and use whatever funds are in there to pay off the debt. And if there's anything left over we should use it to buy some more really cool high tech weaponry that probably doesn't work so you can feel safe.

If you want to take a real guess, you should attempt to understand economics and why both candidates are putting forth bogus plans.....

Blueneck said:
Spending our tax money on missile defense in Poland is wealth distribution.

NO SHIT! As well as UNCONSTITUTIONAL, since it is a matter of provocation far more than national defense.

Blueneck said:
Taking from the middle class and giving to Halliburton is wealth distribution.

Again, NO SHIT. Corporate welfare MUST BE STOPPED.

Blueneck said:
I know you think you criticize both sides equally, but you don't. You and all other conservatives only criticize Obama. How dare he rob from the rich and give to the poor instead of the other way around.

Aside from your obvious failure to understand my point, and you obvious love of the concept of robbing peter to pay paul, or the robin hood ideals.... do you have any substance to address my points?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cziN3gt-hic&feature=related


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MCt2yRqlCcQ&feature=related


Neither of the criminal parties (democrats or republicans) are willing to face reality here, it goes against their agenda. McCain and Obama are BOTH equal in this respect entirely.

[Blueneck]

No, I don't think you read my post very well....Your post began with this:

Well let's discuss the truth about Obama. You didn't say word one about McCain.

I'll tell you what, you get Paul on the ballot in November and I'll vote for him. In the meantime, I'll be voting for Obama because if my government is going to piss away everything we have, I'd at least like to get something out of it. The Republicans haven't given me shit. You know what government employees in my city pay for their health care insurance?

$50 a month.

Why can't I get in on this? I work. I work for a small business and the last insurance quote I got was $300 per month and that was 3 years ago.

I want my end.

[Osborn F. Enready]

Blueneck said:
You didn't say word one about McCain.

I say quite a bit about McCain in the McCain Presidential thread, and most other threads.
It is rare that I don't equate Obama and McCain as traitorous equals to American Law, the Constitution and individual rights, since the fact is they are both equal traitors in those respects.

I am as anti-McCain as any Obama supporter... only I dislike McCain for factual reasons, not emotional reasons, as many Obama supporters do. I dislike Obama for those SAME factual reasons.....

Blueneck said:
I'll tell you what, you get Paul on the ballot in November and I'll vote for him.

I don't care who you vote for as long as you know what your vote is getting you.....
It seems obvious to me you don't.....mainly because you, much like Obama, don't want to address the FACTS OF REALITY concerning BOTH candidates treason and criminal acts based on the usual suspect... partisan blindness and ignorance. (not stupidity, unless you reject reality after finding out about it)

Blueneck said:
In the meantime, I'll be voting for Obama because if my government is going to piss away everything we have, I'd at least like to get something out of it.

Sure, that is EXACTLY what both parties want you to do.... vote for the one who will use force against fellow citizens to better your individual position.... thats the plan for divide and conquer. You are playing right into their division of this country, and it seems as though you don't even know it, or are afraid to admit it.

I am only asking people to stop being tools of destruction, and instead be the person with a brain who uses tools to fix problems, not create them.

Blueneck said:
The Republicans haven't given me shit.

Again, what do either of them OWE you?

The only reason you feel they OWE you is because they HAVE BOTH STOLEN FROM YOU, WITHOUT YOUR CONSCENT, BASED ON FALSE PROMISES.

(in reality)
The only thing they are put in place to do is PROTECT YOUR RIGHTS AND THIS NATIONS BORDERS.... two things that BOTH PARTIES HAVE FAILED AT DOING FOR 60+ years.... but hey, vote for another 4 years of the madness.. that should make it better.....

Blueneck said:
You know what government employees in my city pay for their health care insurance?

$50 a month.

Why can't I get in on this?

You aren't authorized to steal in the form of taxes on others, as they are, for your support.

Instead of wanting to FIX THE PROBLEM, you seem to be asking how you can steal like they do..... THAT IS THE PROBLEM.

Blueneck said:
I work. I work for a small business and the last insurance quote I got was $300 per month and that was 3 years ago.

I want my end.

Earn it with your brain, don't attempt to use force as a cudgel to get it by theft from others.

You want your end, DEMAND that BOTH PARTIES pay you back the funds they STOLE ON FALSE PROMISES, don't attempt to use force to steal it as they have, because then you are only as bad as they are, and an enemy of justice, the people, and the Constitution.

[Blueneck]

I say quite a bit about McCain in the McCain Presidential thread, and most other threads.
It is rare that I don't equate Obama and McCain as traitorous equals to American Law, the Constitution and individual rights, since the fact is they are both equal traitors in those respects.

I am as anti-McCain as any Obama supporter... only I dislike McCain for factual reasons, not emotional reasons, as many Obama supporters do. I dislike Obama for those SAME factual reasons.....



I don't care who you vote for as long as you know what your vote is getting you.....
It seems obvious to me you don't.....mainly because you, much like Obama, don't want to address the FACTS OF REALITY concerning BOTH candidates treason and criminal acts based on the usual suspect... partisan blindness and ignorance. (not stupidity, unless you reject reality after finding out about it)



Sure, that is EXACTLY what both parties want you to do.... vote for the one who will use force against fellow citizens to better your individual position.... thats the plan for divide and conquer. You are playing right into their division of this country, and it seems as though you don't even know it, or are afraid to admit it.

I am only asking people to stop being tools of destruction, and instead be the person with a brain who uses tools to fix problems, not create them.



Again, what do either of them OWE you?

The only reason you feel they OWE you is because they HAVE BOTH STOLEN FROM YOU, WITHOUT YOUR CONSCENT, BASED ON FALSE PROMISES.

(in reality)
The only thing they are put in place to do is PROTECT YOUR RIGHTS AND THIS NATIONS BORDERS.... two things that BOTH PARTIES HAVE FAILED AT DOING FOR 60+ years.... but hey, vote for another 4 years of the madness.. that should make it better.....



You aren't authorized to steal in the form of taxes on others, as they are, for your support.

Instead of wanting to FIX THE PROBLEM, you seem to be asking how you can steal like they do..... THAT IS THE PROBLEM.



Earn it with your brain, don't attempt to use force as a cudgel to get it by theft from others.

You want your end, DEMAND that BOTH PARTIES pay you back the funds they STOLE ON FALSE PROMISES, don't attempt to use force to steal it as they have, because then you are only as bad as they are, and an enemy of justice, the people, and the Constitution.And while you complaining about both sides, one or the other will have won the election. I voted for Nader and all it got me was Bush.

Like it or not we have 2 choices in this election, McCain or Obama. And all your bellyaching isn't going to change that. I'm choosing what I see as the better candidate. The one that won't start at least two more wars while he's in office.

Everybody has to pay taxes, not just you. If you don't like it move to Costa Rica.

[Leslie]

And while you complaining about both sides, one or the other will have won the election. I voted for Nader and all it got me was Bush.

Like it or not we have 2 choices in this election, McCain or Obama. And all your bellyaching isn't going to change that. I'm choosing what I see as the better candidate. The one that won't start at least two more wars while he's in office.

Everybody has to pay taxes, not just you. If you don't like it move to Costa Rica.


Again :thumbsup:

[Osborn F. Enready]

Blueneck said;
Everybody has to pay taxes, not just you. If you don't like it move to Costa Rica.

Sorry. I still live here in fascist Ohio, yet don't pay income tax.

Leslie, I suggest if you agree with Blueneck, you provide some substance or you risk being in the same boat Blueneck is in....denial.

He hasn't argued a coherant point to the points made, only emotional response and opinion.

[Leslie]

Sorry. I still live here in fascist Ohio, yet don't pay income tax.

Leslie, I suggest if you agree with Blueneck, you provide some substance or you risk being in the same boat Blueneck is in....denial.

He hasn't argued a coherant point to the points made, only emotional response and opinion.


Here's McCain on the economy:

http://link.brightcove.com/services/link/bcpid1185304443/bctid1726708896

[Osborn F. Enready]

Leslie, I know what McCain says about the economy, what IS YOUR POINT?!?

They (McCain and Obama) are both failing to address the REAL PROBLEMS.

My question to you is why are you clapping in support of statements that have no actual basis in facts, or the reality of the problem? Any other reason besides partisan blindness?

It seems you both have accepted that you have no choice, and are CONTENT with your fate of having no choice instead of actually DOING SOMETHING ABOUT IT.

[Leslie]

Leslie, I know what McCain says about the economy, what IS YOUR POINT?!?

They (McCain and Obama) are both failing to address the REAL PROBLEMS.

My question to you is why are you clapping in support of statements that have no actual basis in facts, or the reality of the problem? Any other reason besides partisan blindness?

It seems you both have accepted that you have no choice, and are CONTENT with your fate of having no choice instead of actually DOING SOMETHING ABOUT IT.

Hell Darlin', I know better.
You really think anyone in this country not in the 2 major parties has a chance?
My candidate didn't make the cut, I HAVE TO vote against McCain because so far I've survived 8 years of bush...well, kinda. ;)

[Blueneck]

It seems you both have accepted that you have no choice, and are CONTENT with your fate of having no choice instead of actually DOING SOMETHING ABOUT IT.
Like what?

Whine?

Oh wait, that's already being done. Not working too well, is it?

Seriously, I get what you are upset about, I really do. Many people have been horrified at the things Bush has done, and the Congress for letting him do it.

If you want to arm yourself and take to the streets, don't let me stop you, but you'll just end up in a federal prison.

I believe there are people, like Dennis Kucinich and a few others, fighting the good fight.

There are people filing lawsuits and all sorts of other actions. What is to come of this I don't know, but you really aren't helping by dumping it in the lap of everyone else and what, encouraging them not to vote? What do you expect the average enlightened citizen to do with his newfound knowledge you've bestowed on us poor ignorant sheeple?

If you want someone assassinated, I'm afraid you'll have to do it yourself. If you wish to organize a protest of some sort, I'll be happy to attend, as I also live in Ohio.

[Osborn F. Enready]

Leslie said:
Hell Darlin', I know better.
You really think anyone in this country not in the 2 major parties has a chance?

That is irrelevant when being asked to vote for corruption and the misguidance of a nation.....between two equal evils.

Leslie said:
My candidate didn't make the cut, I HAVE TO vote against McCain because so far I've survived 8 years of bush...well, kinda.

My candidate didn't make the cut either, that doesn't mean I will vote for more of the same problem....

It seems peoples failure here is to admit that both McCain and Obama are offering different "spins" on the same problems, but the fact is, they aren't even addressing the REAL problems, only the problems their sheeple constituents want to hear.

WHY SHOULD THEY ADDRESS THE PROBLEMS WHEN PEOPLE WILL CONTINUE TO VOTE FOR THEM NO MATTER HOW FAR THEY STRAY FROM LAW, REALITY OR ACCOUNTABILITY?

Being a tool for the corrupt is no way to bring about change......

Blueneck said:
Like what?

STOP VOTING FOR THE SAME TWO CRIMINAL PARTIES WHO CONSISTENTLY FORCE YOU TO CHOOSE BETWEEN TWO CORRUPT CHOICES?

I mean, how hard is that? If you are a socialist, go vote for the socialist party candidates. If you are a pothead, go vote for the pot party candidate.....

Do they have much chance of winning? No.

Does any third party ever stand a chance of winning if sheeple keep accepting "no choice" as a choice? No.

How can you not see that by voting for both corrupt parties, YOUR the problem, not them? You become the enabler, the sanctioner, the supporter of every evil they perpetrate.

Blueneck said:
Whine?

Yes... one form anyway.
Whine to your senators, whine to your congressman, whine to your media, whine to your family, whine to your friends about the FACT that both parties are traitors to the individual rights you all likely value.

Common sense spreads like wildfire if people apply it.

Blueneck said:
Oh wait, that's already being done. Not working too well, is it?

Yes. We stopped Real I.D. for a while, we stopped internet censorship for a while, we were incremental in stopping the Patriot Acts as passed enforcement, we are growing third parties all over the nation, and calling attention to the REAL PROBLEMs.

“The characteristic of genuine heroism is its persistency. All men have wandering impulses, fits and starts of generosity. But when you have resolved to be great, abide by yourself, and do not try to reconcile yourself with the world. The heroic cannot be common, nor the common heroic.”
-Ralph Waldo Emerson

Mark my words.... those who continue to vote in the two corrupt parties are making violent revolution inevitable.....

“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable.”
-John F. Kennedy, 1962

... because they are making peaceful revolution through the ballot impossible.

Blueneck said:
Seriously, I get what you are upset about, I really do. Many people have been horrified at the things Bush has done, and the Congress for letting him do it.

If you want to arm yourself and take to the streets, don't let me stop you, but you'll just end up in a federal prison.

That is my point from the get go... I DONT WANT TO HAVE TO TAKE ARMS AND GO IN THE STREET, but people who are tools for the bi-partisan monopoly, vote for the lesser of two evils, and ACCEPT having no choice, are forcing my hand.

The last thing I would ever advocate is to use force without being provoked. The problem is, those who continue to vote for both parties while still being completely dissatisfied in their performance, knowing they have a choice but refusing to use it constructively against them, are becoming the tools of force against me.

You and many others recognize the ballot as a means to change.... so DEMAND A CHOICE that will allow that change to happen... DEMAND voting reform, demand ballot access law changes, demand the courts RESPECT petitions of redress.

You cant demand these things and still vote for the two biggest enemies of them, hoping for change.

Blueneck said:
I believe there are people, like Dennis Kucinich and a few others, fighting the good fight.

IN some areas, Dennis does. Even Dennis fails to fully understand those rights in his pocket constitution though, and his partisan blindness is shown when he speaks of the role of force in regards to wealth redistribution.

Blueneck said:
There are people filing lawsuits and all sorts of other actions. What is to come of this I don't know, but you really aren't helping by dumping it in the lap of everyone else and what, encouraging them not to vote?

Please show me where I encouraged you not to vote? I said stop voting for the people creating the problems you are bitching about, which is a damn far cry from advocating not voting at all....

blueneck said:
What do you expect the average enlightened citizen to do with his newfound knowledge you've bestowed on us poor ignorant sheeple?

WOAH! Stop right there. I am not the only interpreter of this knowlege, nor the only one spreading the obvious facts if people take the time to try to understand, so please don't make it out as I am some Messiah... I am far from it.

I don't care how you arrive at your choice to stop voting for the two biggest problems in this country, I only care that you know what you are voting for.

A vote for either is a vote against change, against ballot access fairness, against election fairness, against debates fairness, against individual rights and against the foundational law of this country, which is still claimed to be the law of the land.

You are talking on the internet right now... the greatest tool invented to locate and consume information. Don't take MY WORD FOR ANYTHING, prove it wrong, or prove it right... but my accusation is that you CAN'T prove it wrong, so I challenge you to, as I do anyone. Perhaps that challenge is enough to get people to actually open their eyes and research the facts for themselves.

blueneck said:
If you want someone assassinated, I'm afraid you'll have to do it yourself.

Oh please.... where in this thread did I say ANYTHING of the sort.....lets please keep this at a level of intellectual honesty.

blueneck said:
If you wish to organize a protest of some sort, I'll be happy to attend, as I also live in Ohio.

I will likely be posting the next one on here then.....don't mind if I hold you to it.

My last protest was against "red-light cameras" here in Toledo while I was helping Bill Peirce run for Governor of Ohio against dead-head Stricklin.

http://www.toledoblade.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20061103/NEWS09/611030363/-1/NEWS

Not in the picture, but there none-the-less.

[Leslie]

Os, I belong to a group of people whose pressure on Obama has made some headway, I'm very focused on my own special agenda, McCain is out of my reach. I've learned it's easier to change the system from within the system. Life just ain't perfect. :shame:

[Blueneck]

STOP VOTING FOR THE SAME TWO CRIMINAL PARTIES WHO CONSISTENTLY FORCE YOU TO CHOOSE BETWEEN TWO CORRUPT CHOICES?


It's not impossible to rehab the two major parties, you know. We could take them back.

Your outrage really belongs in the primaries. This is where the good candidates get filtered out. Myself, I'd prefer to see all primaries held on the same day.

Oddly enough, this past spring, if the Republicans had the delegate system the Democrats had, Ron Paul would have been much more of a contender, and if the Dems had winner take all, we wouldn't have had the mess between Hillary and Obama, the residue of which is still dividing the party. I'm not sure what the answer is, but I am pretty sure it lies in the system of primaries.

I've been led to believe that corruption was a result of campaign finance. With Paypal and the internet, that problem should be solved, at least for Obama. This is one reason I support him. His campaign has been funded almost entirely by small donations. He's not beholden to the same forces candidates in the past were beholden to. This should make a difference, shouldn't it?

Although, lately, expecially looking at what Bill Clinton has been doing since being out of office, I got to thinking, the "quid pro quo" thing isn't necessarily go in the order one would think. Politicians sometimes don't appear to reap the rewards of their efforts until long after they've left office. So it's entirely possible that a candidate can be publicly funded and still be a sellout, only instead of getting campaign financing now, gets big bucks later, in speaking fees and business offers.

[Osborn F. Enready]

These videos show well the problem of the American Government.....

Two parties who sold you out for profit and power..... (I don't believe they can be "fixed")

http://democracyforums.com/showthread.php?t=16955

[brien]

Anyone who can't see the folly of both Democrat and Republican Presidential Candidates deserve what they get next year.

It does no good to argue with partisan hacks here. They have already drank the kool aid and there is no saving them. They will reap what they sow eventually.

For example, when the younger people here see a 50% increase in their FICA contributions to support us older citizens approaching 65, they will then realize where the real financial burden is going to fall when these tax and spend politicains continue to force them to support a ponzi scheme like SS.

When the working class here, who all support Obama, realize it is their paycheck that will support all of the socialized systems Obama is proposing, they will see another 30% in taxes deducted from their paychecks. They complain they can't afford gasoline now; well just wait until you can barely afford to feed and clothe your family while the rest of your hard earned money is stolen by the government and redistributed back to those who are "entitled" under one government program or another. You will be crushed under the weight of government taxation and you will have created this Frankenstein monster yourselves.

Many are fooled into thinking "Corprations" will pay for this free ride. Ha, do they have something to learn. Corporations don't pay taxes. They pass them along to the consumer, ie YOU.

Oh that's right, the "rich" will pay all of these taxes. Ha..they will be long gone and their money will be well sheltered from the grubby fingers of your elected theiving polticians. What makes you think they will stick around to support your monster? You all are on a ship of fools and they will have long bailed out on you.

All you people are fucking suckers and have been fooled by the two major political parties.. I just can't wait until you all get a good dose of the medicine you are all mixing up together. Ever had a good dose of ipecap? Well get ready because its coming, so hold you nose and swallow hard, and watch yourselves vomit all over the place. I can't wait...just don't get any on me.

[Leslie]

Anyone who can't see the folly of both Democrat and Republican Presidential Candidates deserve what they get next year.

It does no good to argue with partisan hacks here. They have already drank the kool aid and there is no saving them. They will reap what they sow eventually.

For example, when the younger people here see a 50% increase in their FICA contributions to support us older citizens approaching 65, they will then realize where the real financial burden is going to fall when these tax and spend politicains continue to force them to support a ponzi scheme like SS.

When the working class here, who all support Obama, realize it is their paycheck that will support all of the socialized systems Obama is proposing, they will see another 30% in taxes deducted from their paychecks. They complain they can't afford gasoline now; well just wait until you can barely afford to feed and clothe your family while the rest of your hard earned money is stolen by the government and redistributed back to those who are "entitled" under one government program or another. You will be crushed under the weight of government taxation and you will have created this Frankenstein monster yourselves.

Many are fooled into thinking "Corprations" will pay for this free ride. Ha, do they have something to learn. Corporations don't pay taxes. They pass them along to the consumer, ie YOU.

Oh that's right, the "rich" will pay all of these taxes. Ha..they will be long gone and their money will be well sheltered from the grubby fingers of your elected theiving polticians. What makes you think they will stick around to support your monster? You all are on a ship of fools and they will have long bailed out on you.

All you people are fucking suckers and have been fooled by the two major political parties.. I just can't wait until you all get a good dose of the medicine you are all mixing up together. Ever had a good dose of ipecap? Well get ready because its coming, so hold you nose and swallow hard, and watch yourselves vomit all over the place. I can't wait...just don't get any on me.

And when was the last time you wrote your representatives?

My U S Represenative knows me by name 'n what my issues are.
LOL, and one of my U S Senators knows I'm aim to see him unseated this year.
AND I eat dinner with my State Representative on occasion when I can stomache dry barbecue. :madlaugh:

[brien]

And when was the last time you wrote your representatives?

My U S Represenative knows me by name 'n what my issues are.
LOL, and one of my U S Senators knows I'm aim to see him unseated this year.
AND I eat dinner with my State Representative on occasion when I can stomache dry barbecue

. :madlaugh:

This past Monday to Rep Joe Courtney-D 2nd District Connecticut. It concerned oil drilling and the lack of a National Energy policy in this Nation.

btw the way, I am duly impressed with your political connections...NOT Got any more impressive gems to drop around here?


Sorry if I don't hob knob with those who I opppose poltically, drink their liquor and eat their ribs. I refuse to contribute to Socialist leaning candidates. Everything I said in my post is absolutely true and is going to come to pass. Do you think Social Security is going to be able to support the baby boomers all now entering retirement without a massive increase in the FICA taxes from the younger workers' paychecks?

Do you seriously think that a National Health Care plan will not be funded from the paycheck of these same workers?

The dose of reality that is coming down the pike is a nasty one and what amazes me is that most of the people who are voting for these candidates who support these programs, don't realize they will have to pay for them.

Laugh all you like but the last laugh is going to be on those who vote for these fools.

[Leslie]

This past Monday to Rep Joe Courtney-D 2nd District Connecticut. It concerned oil drilling and the lack of a National Energy policy in this Nation.


Sorry if I don't hob knob with those who I opppose poltically, drink their liquor and eat their ribs. I refuse to contribute to Socialist leaning candidates. Everything I said in my post is absolutely true and is going to come to pass. Do you think Social Security is going to be able to support the baby boomers all now entering retirement without a massive increase in the FICA taxes from the younger workers' paychecks?

Do you seriously think that a National Health Care plan will not be funded from the paycheck of these same workers?

The dose of reality that is coming down the pike is a nasty one and what amzaes me is that most of the people who are voting for these candidates who support these programs, don't realize they will have to pay for them.

Hell, I personally don't care about YOUR Social Security nor YOUR National Health Plan. I just don't understand what the hell you're bitchin' about, I guess it's that you like some of the rest of us have no favorite viable candidate. 317

btw, I really like your Chris Shays :thumbsup:

And Joe Courtney has heard my own personal issues and agrees with me.

[brien]

Hell, I personally don't care about YOUR Social Security nor YOUR National Health Plan. I just don't understand what the hell you're bitchin' about, I guess it's that you like some of the rest of us have no favorite viable candidate. 317

btw, I really like your Chris Shays :thumbsup:

And Joe Courtney has heard my own personal issues and agrees with me.

Joe Courtney and Chris Shays are both cowards who followed Nancy Pelosi and closed up Congress and went on vacation when they should have stayed in DC and finished the business of formulating and voting on a National Energy Plan. They are bootlicking brown nosers who only care to get themselves re-elected to stay in power in DC. Interesting to see that you admire people like this.

Look, perhaps you don't care about Social Security and the oncoming National Health Care Plan, but you are missing the point if you don't understand who is going to pay for it. That is the point I made but it apparently went over your head. All of these people who will vote for Obama and McCain don't understand how these programs are going to be funded. They are being fooled by the current candidates. They are following the pied piper dancing and singing the praises of their candidate, all drinking and eating at the table of doom. I hope they're having a good time now.

You are also mistaken because I am not bitchin. I am calling a spade a spade. I am merely providing a warning to those mates on your ship of fools. I could care less if you, or they , ever listen to me because it isn't me that is going to have to pay for what they are voting for in this election. It is them.

It reminds me of the Bob Seeger tune "Ship Of Fools":

"Tell me quick" said Old McFee
"What's this all have to do with me?"
"I've spent all my time at sea a loner."

"Is there something else I should know?"
"Something hidden down below the
level of your conversation?"
Well he turned away before the answer
Though I yelled aloud he refused to hear
It became to clear
So it went as we put out
I was left in constant doubt
Everything I asked about seemed private

The captain strolled the bridge one night
I stopped him in the evening light
To ask him would it be all right to join him

But he stood there like some idol
And he listened like some temple
And then he turned away

All along the fateful coast
We moved silent like a ghost
The timeless sea of tireless host possessed us
The wind came building from the cold northwest
And soon the waves began to crest
Crashing cross the forward deck
All hands lost

I alone survived the sinking
I alone possessed the tools
On that ship of fools

[Leslie]

So brien, who you want the fools to vote for?

[Osborn F. Enready]

Beautiful, well said Brien.

[Leslie]

Beautiful, well said Brien.

Talk is pretty cheap too.

Ya can't just sit around 'n whine about things, ya gotta participate in the system to change the system.

[Osborn F. Enready]

Leslie said:
Talk is pretty cheap too.

Ya can't just sit around 'n whine about things, ya gotta participate in the system to change the system.

No doubt. I vote with my feet with every business I use, every purchase I make, every vote I make, every campaign I SUPPORT....

That last part is a big issue with me....

That is why I can't with good conscience support criminals that make up the democrat and republican party for the overwhelming majority. They all support policy that DIRECTLY violates my, and every American citizens individual rights, in attempts to make up for their failures.

The border is a prime example....
Trade with nations that don't respect property rights, employee and citizens individual rights is a prime example....
UnConstitutional foreign policy is a prime example...

There are far too many examples for me to think either party will uphold the contract it is elected to uphold, when their parties agenda has been violating that contract for the last 60+ years on every single level, local, state and national. As if that wasn't bad enough, they are removing the peoples right to use the beloved ballot box as a means to change by working TOGETHER to exclude third parties from ballot access, debate access, media access.

How could I possibly vote for a party that does that, much less an individual?!?

[brien]

Talk is pretty cheap too.

Ya can't just sit around 'n whine about things, ya gotta participate in the system to change the system.


Yes, talk is cheap, and "you" do need to participate. I happen to be a member on a board in the government in the town in which I live. I "talk the talk" and "walk the walk", as they may say, Leslie. So keep slinging your arrows b/c my armor is pretty tough.

[brien]

So brien, who you want the fools to vote for?

So Leslie, contrary to many current partisans in our society that back the two major parties, I never pretend to know who anyone but me should vote for in a election. I would never be that presumptuous as the elites who think they know better than others how to run this country and who to vote for in an election. Sorry can't run with your herd.

I know what is right for me, and my political philosophy, and share my ideas with anyone who is polite enough to listen and consider what I think to be relevant for the country today. I find these principles best reflected and practiced in the Libertarian Party.