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Defensor
08-17-2008, 08:41 PM
Is Not Western Hypocrisy Astonishing? (http://www.lewrockwell.com/buchanan/buchanan93.html)
Blowback from Bear Baiting

Mikheil Saakashvili's decision to use the opening of the Olympic Games to cover Georgia's invasion of its breakaway province of South Ossetia must rank in stupidity with Gamal Abdel-Nasser's decision to close the Straits of Tiran to Israeli ships.

Nasser's blunder cost him the Sinai in the Six-Day War. Saakashvili's blunder probably means permanent loss of South Ossetia and Abkhazia.

After shelling and attacking what he claims is his own country, killing scores of his own Ossetian citizens and sending tens of thousands fleeing into Russia, Saakashvili's army was whipped back into Georgia in 48 hours.

Vladimir Putin took the opportunity to kick the Georgian army out of Abkhazia, as well, to bomb Tbilisi, and to seize Gori, birthplace of Stalin.

Reveling in his status as an intimate of George Bush, Dick Cheney, and John McCain, and America's lone democratic ally in the Caucasus, Saakashvili thought he could get away with a lightning coup and present the world with a fait accompli.

Mikheil did not reckon on the rage or resolve of the Bear.

American charges of Russian aggression ring hollow. Georgia started this fight – Russia finished it. People who start wars don't get to decide how and when they end.

Russia's response was "disproportionate" and "brutal," wailed Bush.

True. But did we not authorize Israel to bomb Lebanon for 35 days in response to a border skirmish where several Israel soldiers were killed and two captured? Was that not many times more "disproportionate"?

Russia has invaded a sovereign country, railed Bush. But did not the United States bomb Serbia for 78 days and invade to force it to surrender a province, Kosovo, to which Serbia had a far greater historic claim than Georgia had to Abkhazia or South Ossetia, both of which prefer Moscow to Tbilisi?

Is not Western hypocrisy astonishing?

When the Soviet Union broke into 15 nations, we celebrated. When Slovenia, Croatia, Macedonia, Bosnia, Montenegro, and Kosovo broke from Serbia, we rejoiced. Why, then, the indignation when two provinces, whose peoples are ethnically separate from Georgians and who fought for their independence, should succeed in breaking away?

Are secessions and the dissolution of nations laudable only when they advance the agenda of the neocons, many of whom viscerally detest Russia?

That Putin took the occasion of Saakashvili's provocative and stupid stunt to administer an extra dose of punishment is undeniable. But is not Russian anger understandable? For years the West has rubbed Russia's nose in her Cold War defeat and treated her like Weimar Germany.

When Moscow pulled the Red Army out of Europe, closed its bases in Cuba, dissolved the evil empire, let the Soviet Union break up into 15 states, and sought friendship and alliance with the United States, what did we do?

American carpetbaggers colluded with Muscovite Scalawags to loot the Russian nation. Breaking a pledge to Mikhail Gorbachev, we moved our military alliance into Eastern Europe, then onto Russia's doorstep. Six Warsaw Pact nations and three former republics of the Soviet Union are now NATO members.

Bush, Cheney, and McCain have pushed to bring Ukraine and Georgia into NATO. This would require the United States to go to war with Russia over Stalin's birthplace and who has sovereignty over the Crimean Peninsula and Sebastopol, traditional home of Russia's Black Sea fleet.

When did these become U.S. vital interests, justifying war with Russia?

The United States unilaterally abrogated the Anti-Ballistic Missile treaty because our technology was superior, then planned to site anti-missile defenses in Poland and the Czech Republic to defend against Iranian missiles, though Iran has no ICBMs and no atomic bombs. A Russian counter-offer to have us together put an antimissile system in Azerbaijan was rejected out of hand.

We built a Baku-Tbilisi-Ceyhan pipeline from Azerbaijan through Georgia to Turkey to cut Russia out. Then we helped dump over regimes friendly to Moscow with democratic "revolutions" in Ukraine and Georgia, and tried to repeat it in Belarus.

Americans have many fine qualities. A capacity to see ourselves as others see us is not high among them.

Imagine a world that never knew Ronald Reagan, where Europe had opted out of the Cold War after Moscow installed those SS-20 missiles east of the Elbe. And Europe had abandoned NATO, told us to go home and become subservient to Moscow.

How would we have reacted if Moscow had brought Western Europe into the Warsaw Pact, established bases in Mexico and Panama, put missile defense radars and rockets in Cuba, and joined with China to build pipelines to transfer Mexican and Venezuelan oil to Pacific ports for shipment to Asia? And cut us out? If there were Russian and Chinese advisers training Latin American armies, the way we are in the former Soviet republics, how would we react? Would we look with bemusement on such Russian behavior?

For a decade, some of us have warned about the folly of getting into Russia's space and getting into Russia's face. The chickens of democratic imperialism have now come home to roost – in Tbilisi.

Osborn F. Enready
08-17-2008, 08:50 PM
This isn't "western" hypocrisy......

This is pure, unadulterated BI-PARTISAN CRIMINAL hypocrisy, and had little if anything to do with the ideals of individual rights, capitalism or representative government.

IndieVisible
08-17-2008, 08:52 PM
Defensor- you prefer Russian hypocrisy better? :ponder:

Milton Bradley
08-17-2008, 08:56 PM
This isn't "western" hypocrisy......

This is pure, unadulterated BI-PARTISAN CRIMINAL hypocrisy, and had little if anything to do with the ideals of individual rights, capitalism or representative government.


Here here!


Couldn't have said it better myself.


Ironically, Russia has only itself to blame for trusting those hypocrite bastards in the first place.

Defensor
08-17-2008, 09:13 PM
This isn't "western" hypocrisy......

This is pure, unadulterated BI-PARTISAN CRIMINAL hypocrisy, and had little if anything to do with the ideals of individual rights, capitalism or representative government.
I'm pretty sure "Western" is being used in a geographic sense.

Defensor
08-17-2008, 09:14 PM
Defensor- you prefer Russian hypocrisy better? :ponder:

There was no hypocrisy on the Russians' part in this case. They did nothing but react to the schemes of the neocons being played out on their doorstep.

IndieVisible
08-17-2008, 09:36 PM
There was no hypocrisy on the Russians' part in this case. They did nothing but react to the schemes of the neocons being played out on their doorstep.

Of course, it's America's fault :lmao:

aaronssongs
08-18-2008, 05:22 AM
There was no hypocrisy on the Russians' part in this case. They did nothing but react to the schemes of the neocons being played out on their doorstep.

Hypocrisy was Bush in a press conf, practically ordering the Russians out of Georgia. Funny how he could fix his face to say the words. Credibility: -10.0

jafar00
08-18-2008, 08:30 AM
Defensor- you prefer Russian hypocrisy better? :ponder:

US hypocrisy is criticising the Russians for invading a sovereign nation while they have invasion forces in at least 2 other sovereign nations.

Truth_and_Power
08-18-2008, 07:42 PM
US hypocrisy is criticising the Russians for invading a sovereign nation while they have invasion forces in at least 2 other sovereign nations.

Vica versa

Wndrtch
08-18-2008, 09:14 PM
US hypocrisy is criticising the Russians for invading a sovereign nation while they have invasion forces in at least 2 other sovereign nations.

And when did the Georgians break a cease-fire agreement with the Russians?

When did they violate 17 UN resolutions?

When did they take a hit out on a former Russian President?

When did Georgia invade it's neighbor?

When did Georgia train terrorists that went and killed 3,000 Russians?

How much money does Georgia hand out to the families of Martyrs that died killing Russians?

How many UN officials did Georgia corrupt with an "Oil for Food" scam?

How many tons of Yellow-cake does Georgia possess?


I've said before to you, that we wouldn't need to be in the ME at all, if the Muslim World would act against the growing fascism comming from their ranks. But no ME nation has had the courage to stand against the extremism, and now it has spilled out onto our streets.

Sorry jafar00, the ME nations have no one but themselves to blame for Americans being on their turff. If they were responsible, they would rout any mullah and all his followers, that preach hate and death toward other people. You yourself have said to me that Islam is not an apocolyptic religion. However, it has been "morphed" into one by crazies who have been left alone to do so.

Dawkinsrocks
08-19-2008, 02:47 PM
Don't you think that you might not be in the ME if you didn't keep supplying Israel with the requisite bombs with which to kill Arabs?
Don't you think you wouldn't be in the ME if you didn't support nuclear weapon ownership in Israel???
Don't you think you wouldn't be in the ME if there was no oil there???

Grow up

DamnYankee
08-19-2008, 08:05 PM
Don't you think that you might not be in the ME if you didn't keep supplying Israel with the requisite bombs with which to kill Arabs?

Of course we sell arms to Israel. So what. We're allies. We also sell arms to Jordan, Saudi Arabia, UAE, Egypt, what'd your point?

Don't you think you wouldn't be in the ME if you didn't support nuclear weapon ownership in Israel???

Again, they're allies.

Don't you think you wouldn't be in the ME if there was no oil there???

Of course. We get 11% of our oil from the ME. If we drill for our own oil, we wouldn't need foreign oil. Most of our oil comes from Canada and Mexico, we're there too. We're all over the place. Don't you wish you could be too?

PatrickHenry
08-19-2008, 08:41 PM
Of course we sell arms to Israel. So what. We're allies. We also sell arms to Jordan, Saudi Arabia, UAE, Egypt, what'd your point? Umm...that US contractors make a lot of money selling weapons to reprehensible foreign powers?



Again, they're allies.Israel? Please cite the treaty...



Of course. We get 11% of our oil from the ME. If we drill for our own oil, we wouldn't need foreign oil. Most of our oil comes from Canada and Mexico, we're there too. We're all over the place. Don't you wish you could be too?Actually, the US has been overtaken by globalists who have no allegiance to the nation. They have great powers to manipulate our foreign and energy policy, as well as the propaganda machinery. Aren't you glad that you are so sold on America's freedom and democracy?

potter
08-19-2008, 09:18 PM
Of course, it's America's fault :lmao:


Which goes hand in hand with "it's always someone elses fault" :evil:

potter
08-19-2008, 09:21 PM
Actually, the US has been overtaken by globalists who have no allegiance to the nation. They have great powers to manipulate our foreign and energy policy, as well as the propaganda machinery.

The most impressive part is they get the American taxpayers to cover the entire bill for them....without one whimper of protest.....

apdst
08-19-2008, 11:52 PM
In a case like this I don't mind at all being a hypocrite. It doesn't take a genius to knkow that giving the Russians too much slack is a bad idea.

PatrickHenry
08-20-2008, 01:49 AM
In a case like this I don't mind at all being a hypocrite. It doesn't take a genius to knkow that giving the Russians too much slack is a bad idea.
From what I have seen, you generally relish your hypocrisy... :madlaugh:

jafar00
08-20-2008, 04:34 AM
And when did the Georgians break a cease-fire agreement with the Russians?

When did they violate 17 UN resolutions?

When did they take a hit out on a former Russian President?

When did Georgia invade it's neighbor?

When did Georgia train terrorists that went and killed 3,000 Russians?

How much money does Georgia hand out to the families of Martyrs that died killing Russians?

How many UN officials did Georgia corrupt with an "Oil for Food" scam?

How many tons of Yellow-cake does Georgia possess?


I've said before to you, that we wouldn't need to be in the ME at all, if the Muslim World would act against the growing fascism comming from their ranks. But no ME nation has had the courage to stand against the extremism, and now it has spilled out onto our streets.

Sorry jafar00, the ME nations have no one but themselves to blame for Americans being on their turff. If they were responsible, they would rout any mullah and all his followers, that preach hate and death toward other people. You yourself have said to me that Islam is not an apocolyptic religion. However, it has been "morphed" into one by crazies who have been left alone to do so.

Where did all that come from? This has nothing to do with the Middle East. By the way, I live in the Middle East. I've even spent time in Libya. I have no idea what you are on about.

Besides, name one Middle East country that has attacked the US. Especially Iraq and Afghanistan. Have either of those nations actually attacked the US?