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McCain: "In The 21st Century Nations Don't Invade Other Nations"
Speaking to reporters about the situation in Georgia, Sen. John McCain denounced the aggressive posture of Russia by claiming that:"in the 21st century nations don't invade other nations."
More.....
Video at link (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/08/13/mccain-in-the-21st-centur_n_118759.html)
Sounds like something cheneybush would say.
Is this another senior moment?
...or is he implying America is the only true power that can invade in this New American Century :dizzy:
Kperry
08-14-2008, 02:04 AM
I accepted weeks ago that McCain has succumbed to some sort of mind disease that makes him speak stupid. He can't remember how to pronounce the names of foreign diplomats, and he keeps forgetting which nations still exist and don't. It's a sad, sad day in repeublican land.
AnnEsthesia
08-14-2008, 03:10 AM
What a dumb thing to say! Someone should teach him to keep his mouth shut!
You can see the vid here (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/08/13/mccain-in-the-21st-centur_n_118759.html).
Speaking to reporters about the situation in Georgia, Sen. John McCain denounced the aggressive posture of Russia by claiming that:"in the 21st century nations don't invade other nations."
It was the type of foreign policy rhetorical blunder that has regularly plagued the McCain campaign and could have diplomatic ripples as well. Certainly the comment was meant in innocence. But for those predisposed to the notion that the U.S. is an increasingly arrogant international actor, the suggestion by a presidential candidate that, in this day and age, countries don't invade one another -- when the U.S. is occupying two foreign nations -- does little to alleviate that negative perception.
There is another, less controversial undertone to McCain's remark. Since the Georgia-Russia hostilities have commenced, parallels have been drawn to U.S. intervention in Iraq. The two scenarios are highly different in all intents and purposes, both due to regional significance and the longstanding territorial disputes. But some still would dispute the idea, as McCain seemed to imply, that America's involvement in Iraq is any less an invasion than Russia's involvement in Georgia.
"In The 21st Century Nations Don't Invade Other Nations"
The Daily show did this one up really good.........In the 21st century, nations only "liberate" other nations.
AnnEsthesia
08-14-2008, 03:18 AM
I just don't know how he can say it with a straight face... or was Al visiting and he forgot we are in two countries currently?
Milton Bradley
08-14-2008, 03:20 AM
This is typical of the foreign policy, and the rhetoric of both major parties. ( Do as I say, not as I do. )
This is indicative of government "of the corporation, by the corporation, and for the corporation".
Milton Bradley
08-14-2008, 03:20 AM
I just don't know how he can say it with a straight face... or was Al visiting and he forgot we are in two countries currently?
He's a profession liar, silly.
suedanim
08-14-2008, 03:33 AM
MCain looks and especially sounds more doddering by the day. Its worrisome watching him desperately trying to think what to say and to repeatedly hear him make statements like this.
He also went too far in his attempts to look or sound Presidential by saying, we're all Georgians now. Saakashvilli now wants him to put his words into deeds and mentioned him and his words directly by name. McCain, otoh, has great difficulty speaking at times, with a perpetual whistle as he speaks and especially so as he mispronounces Saakashvilli... as Shashkavilli repeatedly.
Talk about presumptive.... he is not the CIC and rushing to make proposals... especially in light of the fact, there is a direct conflict of interest since one of his many lobbyists who run his campaign was/is a lobbyist for Georgia. This clearly shows McCain's inexperience, naivete or incompetance in handling matters such as this within his staff.
This remark simply adds to the kinds of gaffes which added up make McCain look.. just plain out of it.
Are they senior moments, his campaign hoping no one will notice? Or is he just in denial and hoping no one will notice?
As we send two aircraft carrier battle groups chugging towards the waters off Iran, have 150,000 combat troops occupying Iraq and bombing Afghanistan regularly killing civilians there too, its ludicrous that the mainstream press and the GOP let McCain get away with irresponsible assertions such as that.
Phyxius
08-14-2008, 03:55 AM
But, hey - McCain's gonna win, right? :madlaugh:
suedanim
08-14-2008, 05:06 AM
But, hey - McCain's gonna win, right? :madlaugh:
At least he presumes so....
btw... watching his face now as he speaks, I can't really say if he's knowingly lying anymore. I think the time has some to recognize he just isn't altogethor togethor, on point, on deck, whatever. Could be both. Whatever it is, its embarassing to watch, ect.
I just KNOW Republicans could have given Americans a better candidate, couldn't they? :sadly:
Whats wrong with the one I started?
http://www.democracyforums.com/showthread.php?t=16611
Milton Bradley
08-14-2008, 08:47 AM
Whats wrong with the one I started?
http://www.democracyforums.com/showthread.php?t=16611
Eh, you're a non contributor. :evil:
Come back when you're all edumacated.
Who knows how this guy snuck by. The Republicans hate him.... well, I am not sure about ALL republicans.... how do you like him Milton Bradley? You are registered republican, right? ;)
Tarja Turunen
08-14-2008, 10:35 AM
Speaking to reporters about the situation in Georgia, Sen. John McCain denounced the aggressive posture of Russia by claiming that:"in the 21st century nations don't invade other nations."
Except when you are the United States. Then it is only 'liberating' a nation, which is perfectly acceptable.
...and genocide is just a sleep aid.
Domingo
08-14-2008, 02:36 PM
http://img225.imageshack.us/img225/5388/1003lr8.jpg
AnnEsthesia
08-14-2008, 02:48 PM
Whats wrong with the one I started?
http://www.democracyforums.com/showthread.php?t=16611
Um.. because I posted first?
Milton Bradley
08-14-2008, 07:24 PM
Who knows how this guy snuck by. The Republicans hate him.... well, I am not sure about ALL republicans.... how do you like him Milton Bradley? You are registered republican, right? ;)
No sir, I don't register with any party. I consider myself a libertarian, with the lower case "l".
I dislike McCain on evry level, personal, professional, social, and any other level you can think of.
potter
08-14-2008, 07:49 PM
"Speaking to reporters about the situation in Georgia, Sen. John McCain denounced the aggressive posture of Russia by claiming that:"in the 21st century nations don't invade other nations."
Did he wink at the camera after he said this? Was he laughing? Was he a guest on Jon Stewart?
Um.. because I posted first?Theres no hard feelings, I still adore you... Mistress Ann;
but you started this thread at 7:10 PM PDT
I started mine at 05:24 PM PDT
No sir, I don't register with any party. I consider myself a libertarian, with the lower case "l". Then you couldnt/didnt vote for Ron Paul in the Primary !?!
Milton Bradley
08-15-2008, 08:11 AM
Then you couldnt/didnt vote for Ron Paul in the Primary !?!
No sir. I don't even think I know a "registered" Republican. At least not one with whom I would discuss such things. So all that support you saw for him was from people other than us guys you know from the forum.
:ponder:
That McCain foreign policy experience is raising it's ugly head again. Eight years of this BS with Bush and now the promise of four more.
bishop
08-15-2008, 02:33 PM
mccain's either having another senior moment, or he's just a blithering idiot.. russia invaded georgia solely because of our blunders in iraq.
isn't it heartwarming that one of two idiots will be our next president - to top off 8 years of bush's inept "leadership".
Trish
08-15-2008, 03:13 PM
Good grief. People really should compare apples to apples and oranges to oranges.
Comparing Russia's invasion of Georgia to Iraq is so totally off it's ridiculous. A more apt comparison would be if the American community in one of the Mexican States was large enough to want to stop being part of Mexico and become part of the US instead and started making noise about actually becoming American. Mexico brings in Mexican troops to deter the wayward State after which the US invaded that State to "support" its citizens and their desire to be a part of the US. Then, having foiled Mexico's attempt to reign in the wayward State, began to move through other Mexican territory, destroying, killing and occupying that territory. THAT would be an apt comparison. That's not what happened in Iraq and no amount of comparison will make it so.
Osborn F. Enready
08-15-2008, 03:14 PM
Bishop said:
mccain's either having another senior moment, or he's just a blithering idiot..
Couldn't agree more, and actually am inclined to think it could be both.
No sir. I don't even think I know a "registered" Republican. I remember Patrick talking in a thread with other libertarians, who had just registered republican, like himself. So they could vote Paul. Correct me if I am wrong... oh wait, that was a few months ago. Before you came to this forum. Were you one of them bishop? At least not one with whom I would discuss such things. So all that support you saw for him was from people other than us guys you know from the forum.WOW, you guys finally had a guy in the final 3 (correct?) who could concieveably mop the floor with McCain in a 3-way debate... had a huge wave of young vibrant support... and you didnt even VOTE FOR HIM?? Wow....just wow. If you dont even care enough about the future of this country to try to sway with your one most powerful moment of action "The Vote"; then you really cant complain about ANY of the presidential contenders.
Anyway, I think there are SEVERAL Libertarian members here who registered republican. At least for the primary. They have prolly defected by now.
Ron Paul could have handily won a race against Huckabee and his son, "Slingblade"..... and the creepy mormon guy.... if a few more Libertarians had actually voted for him.
Wouldnt Ron Paul be YOUR best possible choice for the top job?
Let me guess, ....that would mess up your plans for a Revolution. (?)
I was always told you dont vote, you dont get to complain. So, I guess you voted for a non-contender who had ZERO chance of winning... that gives you a right to complain.
Good grief. People really should compare apples to apples and oranges to oranges.
Comparing Russia's invasion of Georgia to Iraq is so totally off it's ridiculous. A more apt comparison would be if the American community in one of the Mexican States was large enough to want to stop being part of Mexico and become part of the US instead ...... Hold it right there. Thats where your scenario goes wrong. Americans cant buy land in Mexico, so they as individuals or as a community dont have any sway of allegiance.
Mexicans can buy land in America...but not vice-versa.
Had Russian citizens bought all the land in that city?
Wndrtch
08-15-2008, 05:51 PM
Sounds like something cheneybush would say.
Is this another senior moment?
...or is he implying America is the only true power that can invade in this New American Century :dizzy:
So now, we shouldn't have invaded Afghanistan now?
I wish Libbies would make up their minds. This "running around the mulberry bush" is getting tiresome.
So now, we shouldn't have invaded Afghanistan now?Absolutely not.
Osama Bin Laden was used an an excuse for that war.
Bin Laden was the scapegoat for 911. Here we are 7 years later and the FBI doesnt list 911 on his rap sheet: http://www.fbi.gov/wanted/terrorists/terbinladen.htm
The real reason for Afghanistan invasion? The natural gas pipeline (and opium). And that is the worst reason for war. Looting and Depopulating.
But that isnt the issue here.
Either McCain doesnt know the definition of "invade"
in·vade (ĭn-vād')
v., -vad·ed, -vad·ing, -vades.
v.tr.
1) To enter by force in order to conquer or pillage.
2) To encroach or intrude on; violate: “The principal of the trusts could not be invaded without trustee approval” (Barbara Goldsmith).
3) To overrun as if by invading; infest: “About 1917 the shipworm invaded the harbor of San Francisco” (Rachel Carson).
4) To enter and permeate, especially harmfully.
...Or he doesnt know what century we are in.
Milton Bradley
08-15-2008, 06:53 PM
I remember Patrick talking in a thread with other libertarians, who had just registered republican, like himself. So they could vote Paul. Correct me if I am wrong... oh wait, that was a few months ago. Before you came to this forum. Were you one of them bishop?
Correct, I was not here at that time.
WOW, you guys finally had a guy in the final 3 (correct?) who could concieveably mop the floor with McCain in a 3-way debate... had a huge wave of young vibrant support... and you didnt even VOTE FOR HIM?? Wow....just wow. If you dont even care enough about the future of this country to try to sway with your one most powerful moment of action "The Vote"; then you really cant complain about ANY of the presidential contenders.
Well, I was not prepared to pretend to be a Republican so I could vote in their primaries. That's just something I'm not inclined to do.
Anyway, I think there are SEVERAL Libertarian members here who registered republican. At least for the primary. They have prolly defected by now.
Ron Paul could have handily won a race against Huckabee and his son, "Slingblade"..... and the creepy mormon guy.... if a few more Libertarians had actually voted for him.
Perhaps.
Wouldnt Ron Paul be YOUR best possible choice for the top job?
Let me guess, ....that would mess up your plans for a Revolution. (?)
Ack, another comedian.
I was always told you dont vote, you dont get to complain. So, I guess you voted for a non-contender who had ZERO chance of winning... that gives you a right to complain.
Oh, I can still complain. Pull up a chair some time, and I'll prove it to you.
:sick:
Milton Bradley
08-15-2008, 06:54 PM
But that isnt the issue here.
Either McCain doesnt know the definition of "invade"
...Or he doesnt know what century we are in.
LOL, priceless.
:clapper:
Can I use that at my stand up gig?
Osborn F. Enready
08-15-2008, 11:30 PM
DANG, I had to switch to Republican to vote for Paul in the primaries......
Milton Bradley
08-16-2008, 12:39 AM
DANG, I had to switch to Republican to vote for Paul in the primaries......
Oops, I guess I do know a registered Republican.
:embarrased:
BoogyMan
08-16-2008, 12:43 AM
Good grief. People really should compare apples to apples and oranges to oranges.
Comparing Russia's invasion of Georgia to Iraq is so totally off it's ridiculous. A more apt comparison would be if the American community in one of the Mexican States was large enough to want to stop being part of Mexico and become part of the US instead and started making noise about actually becoming American. Mexico brings in Mexican troops to deter the wayward State after which the US invaded that State to "support" its citizens and their desire to be a part of the US. Then, having foiled Mexico's attempt to reign in the wayward State, began to move through other Mexican territory, destroying, killing and occupying that territory. THAT would be an apt comparison. That's not what happened in Iraq and no amount of comparison will make it so.
Trish! How dare you point out the factual differences of the situation? Are you getting uppity again? :D
Trish
08-16-2008, 04:46 AM
Trish! How dare you point out the factual differences of the situation? Are you getting uppity again? :D
Who me? :innocent:
Osborn F. Enready
08-16-2008, 01:07 PM
Iraq was a sovereign nation....
Georgia was a sovereign......
Iraq was invaded by out of proportion, overwhelming force.
Georgia was invaded by out of proportion, overwhelming force.
Yea, they ain't the same, but they are close enough to make McCains point what it is....wrong.
Trish
08-16-2008, 03:39 PM
Iraq was a sovereign nation....
Georgia was a sovereign......
Iraq was invaded by out of proportion, overwhelming force.
Georgia was invaded by out of proportion, overwhelming force.
Yea, they ain't the same, but they are close enough to make McCains point what it is....wrong.
An orange is a fruit. An apple is a fruit. They are both good for you - but they aren't the same. If you're wanting an orange and bite into an apple you're gonna be sorely disappointed.
I'm a woman. I have everything that any other woman on the face of the earth has. Heidi Klum is a woman. She also has everything that I, or any other woman, has. And that's where the resemblance ends. No one would ever mistake me for Heidi Klum nor she for me. If just any woman will do - fine we're the same, we're both women with boobs, v-jay-jays and everything. If you're wanting one of the best walking clothes hangers in the business - well you sure as hell don't want me!
Commonalities are important in making comparisons - so are differences.
Osborn F. Enready
08-16-2008, 03:57 PM
I don't see any differences that warrant such statements as McCain said, any more true than the lie it is.
Mouth Full Of Teeth
08-16-2008, 04:02 PM
An orange is a fruit. An apple is a fruit. They are both good for you - but they aren't the same. If you're wanting an orange and bite into an apple you're gonna be sorely disappointed.
I'm a woman. I have everything that any other woman on the face of the earth has. Heidi Klum is a woman. She also has everything that I, or any other woman, has. And that's where the resemblance ends. No one would ever mistake me for Heidi Klum nor she for me. If just any woman will do - fine we're the same, we're both women with boobs, v-jay-jays and everything. If you're wanting one of the best walking clothes hangers in the business - well you sure as hell don't want me!
Commonalities are important in making comparisons - so are differences.
And at the end of the day, after all of the analogies have been made, you still have a completely idiotic statement by McCain.... Granted, it's only a sound-byte and doesn't encompase his whole forgien policy agenda. But, it seems to me that the Republican party has thrived on hypocrisy -- chastising China on its human rights record, the "Clear Skys Act", etc...and this. It just seems to be a continuation in a long patern. But, perhaps I'm reading too much into this gaffe by McCain.
I agree with Os.
An invasion is an invasion is an invasion.
No matter how the Pentagon and McCain color it.
I see what McCain was doing though, and in spite of how fun it is to poke fun at the senile, the message here is simple:
In the New World Order, or "Novus Ordo Seclorum" <edit, add: literally "New Order of the Ages" a Masonic term> {see reverse of dollar bill} there is only one "power" so it cannot invade itself. Countries have all been accumulated under one established order... but its a mind-fuck. This new world order (that McCain is only a pawn in ) doesnt see borders, (in spite of maps and fences) they dont see brutalities as invasions, but as police actions to quell the populace. They claim to "liberate" not "invade", so its YOUR thinking that is not in line with their "truth". (Thats the mind-fuck part)
Part of the truth involves depopulation or, "culling the herd". This is why genocides and wars are endured. Racism is a tool of the establishment.
"Invasion" is an unpopular term, it has negative conotations. The major "powers that be" like Putin and Cheney are only managers. They enforce non-democratic order... while relying on the charade of elections to opiate the masses. They also use patriotism, racism and religion to get people to murder each other. McCain would tell you we dont "murder" people; nor do we "invade" nations. Its the words. Its the lies.
http://img225.imageshack.us/img225/2417/novusordodx0.jpg
~
Bottom line?
Dont question authority.
Dont question the invaders. Because there are NO invaders in the 21st Century.
Do not resist. Dont "meddle with the primal forces of nature, or you will atone!"
On the other hand, you can free your mind. Its your choice.
From "Network" with Ned Beatty
Hear the whole speech here (http://www.americanrhetoric.com/MovieSpeeches/moviespeechnetwork4.html)
Jensen: You have meddled with the primal forces of nature, Mr. Beale, and I won't have it!! Is that clear?! You think you've merely stopped a business deal. That is not the case. The Arabs have taken billions of dollars out of this country, and now they must put it back! It is ebb and flow, tidal gravity! It is ecological balance!
You are an old man who thinks in terms of nations and peoples. There are no nations. There are no peoples. There are no Russians. There are no Arabs. There are no third worlds. There is no West. There is only one holistic system of systems, one vast and immane, interwoven, interacting, multivariate, multinational dominion of dollars. Petro-dollars, electro-dollars, multi-dollars, reichmarks, rins, rubles, pounds, and shekels.
It is the international system of currency which determines the totality of life on this planet. That is the natural order of things today. That is the atomic and subatomic and galactic structure of things today! And YOU have meddled with the primal forces of nature, and YOU WILL ATONE!
Am I getting through to you, Mr. Beale?
You get up on your little twenty-one inch screen and howl about America and democracy. There is no America. There is no democracy. There is only IBM and ITT and AT&T and DuPont, Dow, Union Carbide, and Exxon. Those are the nations of the world today.
What do you think the Russians talk about in their councils of state -- Karl Marx? They get out their linear programming charts, statistical decision theories, minimax solutions, and compute the price-cost probabilities of their transactions and investments, just like we do.
We no longer live in a world of nations and ideologies, Mr. Beale. The world is a college of corporations, inexorably determined by the immutable bylaws of business. The world is a business, Mr. Beale. It has been since man crawled out of the slime. And our children will live, Mr. Beale, to see that perfect world in which there's no war or famine, oppression or brutality -- one vast and ecumenical holding company, for whom all men will work to serve a common profit, in which all men will hold a share of stock, all necessities provided, all anxieties tranquilized, all boredom amused.
And I have chosen you, Mr. Beale, to preach this evangel.
Beale: But why me?
Jensen: Because you're on television, dummy. Sixty million people watch you every night of the week, Monday through Friday.
Beale: I have seen the face of God.
Jensen: You just might be right, Mr. Beale.
This is what McCain is saying
"You are an old man who thinks in terms of nations and peoples. There are no nations."
Trish
08-16-2008, 05:32 PM
I don't see any differences that warrant such statements as McCain said, any more true than the lie it is.
Os, in comparing any 2 things one has to take into consideration the differences as well as the similarities. Iraq and Georgia are not alike - they have similarities, but they have huge differences as well. The complete picture should encompass complete comparisons or the picture is skewed.
Osborn F. Enready
08-16-2008, 07:26 PM
Trish said:
Os, in comparing any 2 things one has to take into consideration the differences as well as the similarities. Iraq and Georgia are not alike - they have similarities, but they have huge differences as well. The complete picture should encompass complete comparisons or the picture is skewed.
I don't disagree at all Trish... I just don't see McCains statement making any sense, regardless of how different these two sovereigns, or their situations are.
IN the end, neither you nor I really know jack-squat about either situation... only what we are being fed by the major media, the special intrest media, and the fringe media.
IN regard to Georgia, I don't know who attacked who, but I know Russias tanks are all over another sovereign nations country.
IN regard to Iraq, I KNOW as sure as any citizen, Iraq didn't attack our soil, and I didn't see a constitutional declaration of war, and I saw little to no evidence to warrant the act as it was undertaken, in policy or actions.
We can agree to disagree here, but I think McCains statement is hypocritical BS.
Its not an invasion... its Nazi Diplomacy.
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