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View Full Version : Mukasey: "not every wrong, or even every violation of the law, is a crime"


suedanim
08-13-2008, 06:12 PM
:madlaugh: THIS from the US Attorney General. Unless of course, you're a Democrat. The lynch party for that is always on standby to leap into action, quick fast in a hurry.

He appears to be laying blame on Justice Dept employees to blow the whistle on this shit... WTF... They will be ignored anyway and too intimidated to speak up. Its the supervisors and Monica Goodlings superiors who are supposed to be minding the laws are kept in hiring practices.

But never mind all that... When does a Republican give a shit about the rule of law? When its a Democrat who breaks it. :grrrr:

Mukasey: No prosecutions in Justice hiring scandal (http://rawstory.com/news/2008/Mukasey_No_prosecutions_in_Justice_hiring_0812.htm l)Associated Press
Published: Tuesday August 12, 2008 NEW YORK - Former Justice Department officials will not face prosecution for letting improper political considerations drive hirings of prosecutors, immigration judges and other career government lawyers, Attorney General Michael Mukasey said Tuesday.
Mukasey used his sharpest words yet to criticize the senior leaders who took part in or failed to stop illegal hiring practices during the tenure of his predecessor, Alberto Gonzales.

But, he told delegates to the American Bar Association annual meeting, "not every wrong, or even every violation of the law, is a crime. In this instance, the two joint reports found only violations of the civil service laws."

Other intrusions of Bush administration politics into department hirings and firings remain under investigation. Mukasey said he is awaiting reports on the firing of nine U.S. attorneys in 2006 and the hiring practices in the department's civil rights division.

The political controversies prompted Gonzales' resignation last year.

An internal investigation concluded last month that for nearly two years, top advisers to Gonzales discriminated against applicants for career jobs who weren't Republican or conservative loyalists.

The federal government makes a distinction between "career" and "political" appointees, and it's a violation of civil service laws and Justice Department policy to hire career employees on the basis of political affiliation or allegiance.

Yet Monica Goodling, who served as Gonzales' counselor and White House liaison, routinely asked career job applicants about politics, the report concluded.

Mukasey, who once served as a federal judge in New York, said the Justice Department has taken steps under his leadership to prevent a recurrence of the hiring scandal.

"I have made repeatedly clear...that it is neither permissible nor acceptable to consider political affiliations in the hiring of career department employees," Mukasey said.

If the problems were to recur, Mukasey said he is confident department employees would speak up.

That did not happen during Gonzales' tenure, he said. Gonzales appeared unaware of the political hiring process outlined by Goodling and his then-chief of staff, Kyle Sampson, the report said.

"There was a failure of supervision by senior officials in the department.
And there was a failure on the part of some employees to cry foul when they were aware, or should have been aware, of problems," Mukasey said.

The ABA has been at odds with the Bush administration on a range of issues, including treatment of prisoners suspected of terrorist ties and the need for a federal law to shield reporters from subpoenas.

Mukasey said that on the issue of politics in his department, there was no disagreement with the lawyers' group.

"Professionalism is alive and well at the Justice Department," he said. :dizzy::dizzy::dizzy:

Some candidates for career Justice Department jobs who were excluded because of politics could be invited to apply for new positions, Mukasey said.

He also ruled out firing or reassigning those who were hired under the now-discarded evaluation process.

Two wrongs do not make a right," he said. "People who were hired in an improper way didn't themselves do anything wrong."

Mouth Full Of Teeth
08-13-2008, 06:17 PM
Amazing. Thanks for the post, Sue.

Truth_and_Power
08-13-2008, 06:25 PM
Now smoking marijuana to relieve pain from terminal cancer... that's a crime! :dizzy:

brien
08-13-2008, 07:52 PM
I guess it depends upon what "is" means..as in
"is a crime".....

NortheastCynic
08-13-2008, 07:59 PM
Who was the last good Attorney General that this country has had?

-NC

Truth_and_Power
08-13-2008, 08:08 PM
Anybody remember when we thought ashcroft was a horrible AG? Seems like a gentler age

NortheastCynic
08-13-2008, 08:09 PM
It does.

Everyone seems to be a step down from Fuhrer Reno, though.

-NC

Mouth Full Of Teeth
08-13-2008, 08:20 PM
I was wondering how long it would take for the neo-cons on this site to try to deflect the issue away from the topic at hand.

6 replies. Either you guys are getting slow or showing some sort of restraint.

EDIT: It looks more like 4 replies...

NortheastCynic
08-13-2008, 08:56 PM
I was wondering how long it would take for the neo-cons on this site to try to deflect the issue away from the topic at hand.

6 replies. Either you guys are getting slow or showing some sort of restraint.

EDIT: It looks more like 4 replies...
Who has attempted to deflect the issue and who is a neocon who has posted on this thread?

-NC

suedanim
08-13-2008, 09:06 PM
I was wondering how long it would take for the neo-cons on this site to try to deflect the issue away from the topic at hand.

6 replies. Either you guys are getting slow or showing some sort of restraint.

EDIT: It looks more like 4 replies...

They and the liberatarians appear to feel compelled to talk about anything but Mukasey and the right's failure to uphold the rule of law in this administration.

Why is that?

Milton Bradley
08-13-2008, 09:11 PM
The Libertarians probably just feel this is vindication that the Bush administration is corrupt from top to bottom.


I mean, what's to talk about? You want to hear a great big "I told you so"?

NortheastCynic
08-13-2008, 09:12 PM
Well as 'the libertarian' [that sounds so ominous with a 'the' preceding it :evil:] let me say this: find one example of this Administration's law-breaking that I have defended?

After you fail to do that, perhaps you'll understand that I FREQUENTLY talk about the 'right's failure to uphold the rule of law and Constitution'.

Honestly, I don't know where you're getting this nonsense from.

The current AG is a horrific Attorney General and has no respect for civil liberties. His predecessor was a horrific AG and had no respect for civil liberies. His predecessor was a horrific AG and had no respect for civil liberties. His predecessor was a horrific AG and had no respect for civil liberties.

Am I being too subtle?

-NC

NortheastCynic
08-13-2008, 09:14 PM
The Libertarians probably just feel this is vindication that the Bush administration is corrupt from top to bottom.


I mean, what's to talk about? You want to hear a great big "I told you so"?Exactly. I've exhausted myself over the last 7 years decrying the horrific abuses of power and Constitutional violations that this Administration has committed.

Anyone who has read, hell, 1% of my posts knows exactly how I feel about this President and his Administration.

-NC

potter
08-13-2008, 09:31 PM
Good grief....but let someone lie under oath and it "off with his head"....

I interpret the AG to mean, if we agree with the law we prosecute, if we don't agree with the law, we'll break it....

I suppose this is a pretty common attitude in America...but from the AG?

ilikegw
08-13-2008, 09:32 PM
You mean like the President? Oh, yea, let's let him slide on that one....

Trish
08-13-2008, 09:36 PM
Well that's just a stupid statement! "not every wrong, or even every violation of the law, is a crime." While something may be morally wrong without being a crime, a violation of the law is by definition a crime! They may be petty or small crimes like breaking the speed limit which results in a misdemeanor or big crimes like robbing a bank of murdering someone which result in felonies, but they are all still crimes. That's just a stupid statement! Now maybe he "meant" that violations of civil service laws weren't "serious" crimes or something of that nature, but to say that every violation of the law isn't a crime is just plain stupid.

Milton Bradley
08-13-2008, 09:45 PM
Well that's just a stupid statement! "not every wrong, or even every violation of the law, is a crime." While something may be morally wrong without being a crime, a violation of the law is by definition a crime! They may be petty or small crimes like breaking the speed limit which results in a misdemeanor or big crimes like robbing a bank of murdering someone which result in felonies, but they are all still crimes. That's just a stupid statement! Now maybe he "meant" that violations of civil service laws weren't "serious" crimes or something of that nature, but to say that every violation of the law isn't a crime is just plain stupid.



See, if more people understood this simple truth, and realized that the Constitution is a legal document, we wouldn't be in the trouble we are in currently.

xLIBREx
08-13-2008, 09:52 PM
They and the liberatarians appear to feel compelled to talk about anything but Mukasey and the right's failure to uphold the rule of law in this administration.

Why is that?

Sorry, but you don't know jack shit about libertarians and libertarianism. Unlike liberals, two wrongs does not make a right to us. Whether the left violates people's rights or the right, it makes no difference to us. Reno sucked, Mukasey sucks and it's all bullshit. The problem that people like you don't realize is that you are part of the problem. When liberals want to violate the Constitution for their socialism they have no right to complain when their rights, in-turn, get violated because of the power they handed to the government. The same thing goes for right wingers and their violations. You are all full of shit.

I hammered a mod here yesterday about what part of the Constitution gave Congress the power to implement any type of "Fairness Doctrine." Her reply was, "because they have the right to legislate the laws!" WTF?? I even pointed her to Article 1 Section 8 of the Constitution which is where the very specific and enumerated powers of Congress are laid out. I got no response.

So until both the left and the right stops shitting on the Constitution so they can try and force their wills upon the other side, things will only keep getting worse. Like it or not, you are the problem.

slappy
08-14-2008, 01:34 AM
For anyone who's interested, here is the complete text of Mukasey's speech, (http://www.usdoj.gov/ag/speeches/2008/ag-speech-0808121.html) and here is the full paragraph quoted in the news piece above:

I am well aware that some people have called on me and on the Department to take even more drastic steps than those I have described. For example, some commentators have suggested that we should criminally prosecute the people found in the reports to have committed misconduct. Where there is evidence of criminal wrongdoing, we vigorously investigate it. And where there is enough evidence to charge someone with a crime, we vigorously prosecute. But not every wrong, or even every violation of the law, is a crime. In this instance, the two joint reports found only violations of the civil service laws.Strictly speaking, Mukasey is right. Violations of the criminal law are crimes. Violations of non-criminal legislation are not crimes.

PostmodernProphet
08-14-2008, 01:47 AM
Slappy is correct there are far more provisions of the law which do NOT define criminal activity than those which do.....

Milton Bradley
08-14-2008, 01:52 AM
Slappy is correct there are far more provisions of the law which do NOT define criminal activity than those which do.....


Kinda makes you wnder who is creating all these stupid laws.

suedanim
08-14-2008, 04:55 AM
Mukasey may have spoken too soon though on this since apparently the investigations are not complete into some WH connections to this unethical behavior.

Also... Mukasey will not so easily be able to slide out from under holding Justice Dept officials and likely WH connections (Karl Rove)... personally responsible over the nine attorney firings.

xLIBREx
08-14-2008, 05:05 AM
Mukasey may have spoken too soon though on this since apparently the investigations are not complete into some WH connections to this unethical behavior.

Also... Mukasey will not so easily be able to slide out from under holding Justice Dept officials and likely WH connections (Karl Rove)... personally responsible over the nine attorney firings.

Do you ever answer the logical well-reasoned counterpoints to your posts?