GOP to Force Government Shut Down Over Drilling

[xLIBREx]

Good for the GOP, they haven't done much right in the past few years, but this is the issue which is going to win them the election and they are playing it perfectly. The fact is, our country is overwhelmingly for domestic oil production. Even plenty of Democrats in Congress realize this and it's only the Democratic leadership which stands in the way. This is going to be a very embarrassing defeat on both this issue, and the November election. If you can't beat Bush III, you truly are pathetic.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,402101,00.html

[Stoner]

Hoorah!

Someone needs to show these morons that it's time to put away politics and do some good for our country.

:clapper:

[lily]

Hope they televise it.........I love cheap political stunts......and if they do it, like Reid says on the day Social Security checks are due to go out, it'll be even more fun to watch them implode!

[xLIBREx]

Hoorah!

Someone needs to show these morons that it's time to put away politics and do some good for our country.

:clapper:

Absolutely, and that goes for all of them.

[ECW]

The bogus domestic oil drilling "controversy" is going to win this for the GOP? With oil ten years away from actual usage if we drilled today; this issue is going to win it all this year? I thought the John Edwards affair was the GOP issue. I thought Edwards' dalliances were the lock the GOP was looking for, not drilling for oil. Why bring up the oil deal when you have the Edwards affair to ride to victory? What gives?

[preservanation]

'bout time they grew some fuzz on their nuts.

[PostmodernProphet]

Hope they televise it.........I love cheap political stunts......and if they do it, like Reid says on the day Social Security checks are due to go out, it'll be even more fun to watch them implode!

/grins.....and if Reid schedules it for the day that SS checks go out, does that make it more or less of a political stunt.....

[PostmodernProphet]

The bogus domestic oil drilling "controversy" is going to win this for the GOP?

no, basically Democratic incompetence is going to win it for the GOP.....

[ECW]

Yeah.

I heard that before.

A year and a half ago.

Keep hammering away on these non-issues and watch the ass reaming the American public gives you this fall.

Would you like to make your predictions right now?

Will the GOP win back the House?

Will the GOP win back the Senate?

Will McCain win the WH?

Time to put up or STFU.

(And I would love to see the GOP shut down the government over this bogus drilling shit. Shutting down the government worked so well last time for you. It will just show the public you can BS but you cannot govern, as if they did not know that already.)

[PostmodernProphet]

Yeah.

I heard that before.

A year and a half ago.

Keep hammering away on these non-issues and watch the ass reaming the American public gives you this fall.

Would you like to make your predictions right now?

Will the GOP win back the House?

Will the GOP win back the Senate?

Will McCain win the WH?

Time to put up or STFU.

no, I don't think the GOP will win back Congress.....but I think Dem control of the House will be reduced....and I don't expect to see either Reid or Pelosi running things next year.......they fucked things up too badly the last two for the Dems to give them another chance.....

yes, McCain will win the election for president......

[NIOSA]

The bogus domestic oil drilling "controversy" is going to win this for the GOP? With oil ten years away from actual usage if we drilled today; this issue is going to win it all this year? I thought the John Edwards affair was the GOP issue. I thought Edwards' dalliances were the lock the GOP was looking for, not drilling for oil. Why bring up the oil deal when you have the Edwards affair to ride to victory? What gives?

What's bogus is, "we won't get any oil from new drillimng for 10 years".

[Blueneck]

What's bogus is, "we won't get any oil from new drillimng for 10 years".
There's more oil in North Dakota than there is in ANWAR.

http://blogs.moneycentral.msn.com/topstocks/archive/2008/04/10/north-dakota-oil-discovery-called-biggest-in-u-s.aspx

This is just a political ploy to make Republicans look like they give a shit about something important.

And gas prices are down for the fifth straight week.

http://www.pbn.com/stories/34440.html

[Stoner]

With oil ten years away from actual usage if we drilled today; this issue is going to win it all this year?

http://www.cfif.org/htdocs/freedomline/cartoon-corner/ANWR-big.jpg

[Mouth Full Of Teeth]

Funny, you could make the same comic about Republicans and investing in renewable fuels...

[Mouth Full Of Teeth]

no, I don't think the GOP will win back Congress.....but I think Dem control of the House will be reduced....and I don't expect to see either Reid or Pelosi running things next year.......they fucked things up too badly the last two for the Dems to give them another chance.....

yes, McCain will win the election for president......

What were your predictions when it came to the 2006 congressional elections?

[suedanim]

Good for the GOP, they haven't done much right in the past few years, but this is the issue which is going to win them the election and they are playing it perfectly. The fact is, our country is overwhelmingly for domestic oil production. Even plenty of Democrats in Congress realize this and it's only the Democratic leadership which stands in the way. This is going to be a very embarrassing defeat on both this issue, and the November election. If you can't beat Bush III, you truly are pathetic.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,402101,00.html

The GOP hasn't done much right in eight years. And..pssst... this issue is a fake political trick and lol... you fell for it like any obedient sycophant would. :dizzy:

The country can be for domestic oil production all it wants. The fact remains.. the USA only possesses 3% of the worlds oil...on any day of the year, for all time. The country needs to get its collective head out its ass, you can't get blood out of a turnip. Stop looking for quick and dirty solutions to a government created problem.

We'll see who gets embarassed. See my thread.

[PostmodernProphet]

Funny, you could make the same comic about Republicans and investing in renewable fuels...

really?.....there are tons of tax credits available for renewable fuels.....how do you think all those wind farms and ethanol plants got built......

[PostmodernProphet]

What were your predictions when it came to the 2006 congressional elections?

wrong....what were your predictions for the 2004 presidential election?.....

[Mouth Full Of Teeth]

really?.....there are tons of tax credits available for renewable fuels.....how do you think all those wind farms and ethanol plants got built......

Absolutely amazing...so you're saying now that the "there is no such thing as Global Warming", pro-big-Oil and big-business Republicans have been working all this time on bi-partisan legislation for green solutions to America's energy problems?

:madlaugh:

[PostmodernProphet]

the USA only possesses 3% of the worlds oil...on any day of the year, for all time.

do we need 4% to eliminate our reliance on foreign oil?.....no......

[Mouth Full Of Teeth]

wrong....what were your predictions for the 2004 presidential election?.....

I don't think I made any... I had a favored candidate from the two parties...and it wasn't George Bush. I am very proud to say that I never voted for George Bush nor was he a mistake coming from my party...

[PostmodernProphet]

Absolutely amazing...so you're saying now that the "there is no such thing as Global Warming", pro-big-Oil and big-business Republicans have been working all this time on bi-partisan legislation for green solutions to America's energy problems?

:madlaugh:

interesting.....you pulled all that shit out my post?....I didn't even see it there......I think what I typed into it was what you can read.....the rest of the bullshit came from you......

[PostmodernProphet]

I don't think I made any... I had a favored candidate from the two parties...and it wasn't George Bush. I am very proud to say that I never voted for George Bush nor was he a mistake coming from my party...

and I am proud to say that as bad as the last eight years have been, at least I voted for Bush and kept Gore and Kerry from fucking things up even worse......

[Mouth Full Of Teeth]

interesting.....you pulled all that shit out my post?....I didn't even see it there......I think what I typed into it was what you can read.....the rest of the bullshit came from you......

So, what possible relevance does it have?

My comment on the comic is that the same thing could be said of the Republicans, who have blocked green technologies since the 1980's using the same kind of logic. Yes, the Democrats have been able to make some headway, but that is irrelevant. The Republicans have made headway in their pro-big-oil agenda as well...or did you not even consider the tax breaks?

[Mouth Full Of Teeth]

and I am proud to say that as bad as the last eight years have been, at least I voted for Bush and kept Gore and Kerry from fucking things up even worse......

Yeah...right. :rolleyes:

[brien]

People who would deny any possible new oil drilling within the territory of the US are missing or ignoring one major point here, National Security.

What would you do if the oil spigot were shut off by Chavez? Or by Mexico? Or the Canadian flow were interrupted by an act of terrorism? Or the Straits of Hormuz were closed in a war?

The US needs to be prepared to have every possible oil well in the US to be ready to keep that oil here in the US. If it takes 5 to 7 years to get this done, so be it. The time to realize we need to drill in the US is not the time when a world oil crisis happens. Such reactionary tactics will bring the USA to its knees, in culture, economics, and society, and force the US to be at the mercy of foreign oil providers, worse than we are even now.

The time is now to open all US reserves for new drilling, even if we don't tap one barrel. We need to be prepared so that YOU can maintain your lifestyle here in the US. All you people who oppose new drilling need to explain how you would live without oil if there was a major disruption in the supply to the US.

We depend upon 73% of imported oil for our energy consumption and this puts the US at extreme danger if it can't replace even part of that flow should the supply of oil into the US be shut down. We are already too late in this development as we should have drilled every possible well over the last 30 years.

So, I ask once again, for the umteenth time from those opposed to drilling for new oil, how would you continue your lifestyle, and how would the American economy continue, if the supply of foreign oil were even partially shut off when we don't have the ability to replace even a partial amount of that oil which could mitigate such an emergency. Tell us how would you live without oil?

How would you heat your home"
How would you feed yourself and your family?
How would you get electricity?
How would you get to work, even if you had a job, after such a disruption?

The US society, culture and economy could quite possibly collapse as we know it.

While you are at it, please tell us how it isn't hypocritical and elitist to demand the US not drill its own resources, and yet demand that countires like Saudi Arabia, Venezuela, Canada, or Mexico, increase their drilling to increase the supply of oil to the US?

Furthermore, please tell us why it is ok for China to drill in Cuban leases 50 miles off the coast of FLorida yet the US can't drill off the coast of Florida anywhere near there as well? This situation is a perfect example of how stupid the US energy policy on drilling off the coast is in the US.

70% Americans are in agreement that we need to develop every source of energy we may have in the US, including oil. This also includes every means of alternative energy that can replace oil in the next 10 years. It is this multi faceted approach that will make the US energy independent and give the US a national energy policy that is practical, workable, and secure from foreign domination that an oil shortage could place upon America by any simple single source of disruption in the foreign oil flow into the US.

The cruel and real fact of the matter is that the US has wasted 30 years in not developing an energy policy that would insulate us against the dangers of foreign influence due to oil consumption in the US. This is not a partisan issue as the last 30 to 40 years have shown us. The time is now to get it done. It may already be too late. Therefore, what it is far more dangerous in this aspect of national security, is the fact it won't even take one bullet to vanquish America as we know it today. Wake up.

[PostmodernProphet]

So, what possible relevance does it have?

My comment on the comic is that the same thing could be said of the Republicans, who have blocked green technologies since the 1980's using the same kind of logic. Yes, the Democrats have been able to make some headway, but that is irrelevant. The Republicans have made headway in their pro-big-oil agenda as well...or did you not even consider the tax breaks?

I will repeat....how have the Republicans "blocked" green technologies?......current tax credits put in place by Bush paid for the windfarms and ethanol plants you see sprouting up all over.....

now that you got the silliness out of your system, maybe you can make a legitimate answer to my question....

[Mouth Full Of Teeth]

I will repeat....how have the Republicans "blocked" green technologies?......current tax credits put in place by Bush paid for the windfarms and ethanol plants you see sprouting up all over.....

now that you got the silliness out of your system, maybe you can make a legitimate answer to my question....

Very easy. I'll even write it so that you can understand it...
1. Go to www.google.com
2. In that little search area, type in "Republicans Block Green"
3. Look at all the hits. You will see some on the first page. Now, of course, you will have to dig a bit to go all the way back to the 80's...but rest assured, the Republicans have long been opposed to anything to do with green technologies.

That Bush signed an energy bill that took months to craft and didn't veto the whole thing over a compromise to the Democrats that he would never have initiated on his own, doesn't prove your case.

[tecoyah]

I will repeat....how have the Republicans "blocked" green technologies?......current tax credits put in place by Bush paid for the windfarms and ethanol plants you see sprouting up all over.....

now that you got the silliness out of your system, maybe you can make a legitimate answer to my question....


I'll just posts the most recent one...OK?

Legislation to extend some $18 billion worth of tax credits for renewable energy fizzled in the Senate Wednesday, as Republican lawmakers made good on their stated intent to prevent the bill from moving forward unless it were accompanied by support for domestic oil drilling.

http://features.csmonitor.com/environment/2008/07/31/gop-lawmakers-block-renewable-energy-credit-bill/

Oh...and that whole ethanol thingy...not so green, but still a nice try.

[brien]

Very easy. I'll even write it so that you can understand it...
1. Go to www.google.com
2. In that little search area, type in "Republicans Block Green"
3. Look at all the hits. You will see some on the first page. Now, of course, you will have to dig a bit to go all the way back to the 80's...but rest assured, the Republicans have long been opposed to anything to do with green technologies.

That Bush signed a budget that took months to craft and didn't veto the whole thing over a compromise to the Democrats that he would never have initiated on his own, doesn't prove your case.

Why don't you show us a comprehensive energy policy that reduced oil consumption and promoted viable altenative energy by any Administration or Congress since the oil crisis of the early 70's.

Now, since you seem to be against drilling for more oil, just how would you live with out oil if the flow of imported oil to the US was disprupted in the next 5 - 10 years?

How do you reconcile not drilling off the coast of Florida when China will be doing just that courtesy of Cuban oil leases in the next few years?

How do you not take a hypocrititcal stance when you refuse to allow the US to drill for new oil, but go with your hat in hand to foreign nations and expect them to supply oil for consumption in the US? What would you suggest if Chavez tells the US to fuck off and sells his oil to China and India instead of the US at any price? How would you suggest that the US replace this oil?

What would you suggest the US do if there was a disruption in the flow of oil to the US? What is your plan to keep the economy going? How would you feed your family?

[potter]

It'll be fun watching republicans shut down the government. Shoulda been done long ago.

It'll be even more fun when drilling is finally approved and all the fools find out it doesn't do jack shit for gas prices or supply.....

[Elrathin]

I'm with you on this potter. I say go ahead with the drilling, prove that it doesn't do jack shit and ensure the GOP support dies out.

[brien]

It'll be fun watching republicans shut down the government. Shoulda been done long ago.

It'll be even more fun when drilling is finally approved and all the fools find out it doesn't do jack shit for gas prices or supply.....


First, we don't know what it will do for prices unless you have a crystal ball, and if you are so certain prices will still rise, perhaps you should bet the farm on prices going up, make a bundle, and retire wealthy.

Pssst, even the speculators bet on prices going down on commodities. It is called "selling short." So, I wouldn't bet the farm, just yet. What do you attribute recent price drop from $146 a barrel to $113 a barrel? Here is a WSJ link for you:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB121832648497527363.html?mod=googlenews_wsj

"As for where energy prices are going -- and the related question of whether energy stocks have dropped to bargain levels -- even the experts are having a hard time making an accurate prediction. Many experts say that as the global economy continues to slow, oil prices will drop, possibly under $100 a barrel."

*********************

Second, more drilling will eventually bolster the national security of the US if the oil supply to the US is ever even slighlty disrupted.

Third, what's your plan to keep the US economy afloat if there is a disruption in the supply of oil to the US? How would you feed yourself and your family?

Fourth: It is time for this partisan bullshit fingerpointing to cease. It is 30 years past due for a bipartisan comprehensive sensible energy policy to be crafted by the US government to insure that the national security of the US is not compromised should the oil flow be disrupted to the US. This policy has to include drilling for new oil sources here in the US.

[potter]

Fourth: It is time for this patisan bullshit fingerpointing to cease. It is 30 years past due for a bipartisan comprehensive sensible energy policy to be crafted by the US government to insure that the national security of the US is not compromised should the oil flow be disrupted to the US. This policy has to include drilling for new oil sources here in the US.

:thumbsup:

How about expanding this to all aspects of US policy....work for the people instead of for the party?

[brien]

I'm with you on this potter. I say go ahead with the drilling, prove that it doesn't do jack shit and ensure the GOP support dies out.

Won't do "jackshit" eh? How about bolstering the number of US sources for oil if there is a disruption of the flow of foreign oil to the US? But hey, that's not important. You don't need oil now do you?

Ok.... So what's your plan if there is a disruption to the foreign oil flow to the US in the next 5-10 years? Can you answer any of my questions posted in my recent comments in this thread (#26 & 30) since no one else has any sensible ideas to answer these real concerns.

How would you keep the US economy afloat?

How would you feed your family?

How would you earn a living?

How would you continue your lifestyle?

[brien]

:thumbsup:

How about expanding this to all aspects of US policy....work for the people instead of for the party?

This shouldn't be a partisan issue. It is one of national security. Can't anyone answer my questions?

[tecoyah]

This shouldn't be a partisan issue. It is one of national security. Can't anyone answer my questions?

Can...but wont. Having dealt before with the mindset you have displayed here, there seems little point in answering as you will simply complain about the answers.

It is doubtful you are asking to actually listen to the reply, but instead to gather more material to bitch about.

Been there....done that.


that said...I agree, let them drill, and while your at it take the subsidies in place for traditional exploration and give them to those who will tap the Shale deposits in the U.S....at least we KNOW what is down there.

[potter]

First, we don't know what it will do for prices unless you have a crystal ball, and if you are so certain prices will still rise, perhaps you should bet the farm on prices going up, make a bundle, and retire wealthy.



Did I say prices would rise? Hang on while I go look......

No, I said it won't do jack shit for the prices. How can it? Any results are years out and output will be miniscule compared to total US usage.

[Mouth Full Of Teeth]

Why don't you show us a comprehensive energy policy that reduced oil consumption and promoted viable altenative energy by any administration since the oil crisis of the early 70's.

Now, since you seem to be against drilling for more oil, just how would you live with out oil if the flow of inported oil to the US was disprupted in the next 5 - 10 years?

How do you reconcile not drilling off the coast of Florida when China will be doing just that courtesy of Cuban oil leases in the next few years?

How do you not take a hypocrititcal stance when you refuse to allow the US to drill for new oil, but go with your hat in hand to foreign nations and expect them to supply oil for consumption in the US? What would you suggest if Chavez tells the US to fuck off and sells his oil to China and India instead of the US at any price? How would you suggest that the US replace this oil?

What would you suggest the US do if there was a disruption in the flow of oil to the US? What is your plan to keep the economy going? How would you feed your family?

What a beautiful straw man post. You have assumed a lot of positions that I don't hold.

I am not "so against drilling", I just think that it is like giving a cocaine addict more cocaine... I think it's ineffective and not the right direction we should be taking. The oil companies already have rights to drill in a lot of places that they aren't taking advantage of. Opening up new places won't lower the prices.

The high oil prices are caused by investor speculation, uncertainty in the middle east, and the weakening of the dollar. Demand for oil has actually gone down with the price of gas going up...but that hasn't led to lower prices. The prices have gone up even as Americans went to a historic ten year low in consumption.

As for the whole "we must not be dependant on forigen oil"...I completely agree. However, I don't believe the answer is simply to drill all of the US based oil, until we run out, and then go with hat in hand and ask for oil from Chavez or whomever...

[brien]

Can...but wont. Having dealt before with the mindset you have displayed here, thee is little point in answering as you will simply complain about the answers.

It is doubtful you are asking to actually listen to the reply, but instead to gather more material to bitch about.

Been there....done that.


that said...I agree, let them drill, and while your at it take the subsidies in place for traditional exploration and give them to those who will tap the Shale deposits in the U.S....at least we KNOW what is down there.

Nice dodge there, but it doesn't cut any ice because you aren't answering me, but addressing real issues that could very well come to pass in the US. I am not bitching but rather psoing serious questions that require serious answers. The questions are simple ones and aren't subjective. Once again:

Ok.... So what's your plan if there is a disruption to the foreign oil flow to the US in the next 5-10 years? Can you answer any of my questions posted in my recent comments in this thread (#26 & 30) since no one else has any sensible ideas to answer these real concerns.

How would you keep the US economy afloat?

How would you feed your family?

How would you earn a living?

How would you continue your lifestyle?

Our entire lifestyle, culture and economy in the US is dependent upon oil.


I am interested to learn of anyone's plan to replace foreign oil dependence in the US in the next 5 -10 years should there be a disruption in the foreign supply the anti drillers are so comfortable with here..

How do you justify not drilling off the coast of Florida when China will be there drilling in Cuban leases in the next few years? What logical reason is there for the US not to drill there?

So your answer is to continue to require foreign countries to drill their supplies while we sit on ours and do nothing to expand our resources should a foreign power decide not to sell to the US? How do you propose to "force" a foreign supplier to sell to the US?

These are reasonable questions addressing reasonable issues that unreasonable people can't answer because they know the only answer is to cultivate and expand ALL of our own energy supplies to work toward an independent energy policy for a nation that is all to dangerously addicted to foreign oil supplies.

[xLIBREx]

The GOP hasn't done much right in eight years. And..pssst... this issue is a fake political trick and lol... you fell for it like any obedient sycophant would. :dizzy:

No, I just have an education and common sense.

The country can be for domestic oil production all it wants. The fact remains.. the USA only possesses 3% of the worlds oil...on any day of the year, for all time. The country needs to get its collective head out its ass, you can't get blood out of a turnip. Stop looking for quick and dirty solutions to a government created problem.

We'll see who gets embarassed. See my thread.

Sorry, I don't know what planet you are getting your numbers from, but lets do some math. Try and keep up;

The U.S. Minerals Management Service estimates that there are about 86 billion barrels of recoverable oil using today's technology (we won't even count future tech like shale oil extraction)in the areas that we're not allowed to drill. We use 20M barrels a day. Right now we import 63% of that oil with 17% coming from the Persian Gulf according to the CIA factbook. So, let's see we could have a domestic supply which would keep us free from being hostages to the Middle East for 64 years in an emergency. This would also end out need to spend hundreds of millions of dollars every year militarily in the region (or perhaps you like fighting all of those wars in sand pits?). It would also financially cripple those who we are fighting against! Or do you simply not understand that our oil consumption finances those who wish to destroy us?

This would give us plenty of time for the technology to continue to develop so we can get off oil all together, but that is at least a 20-30 year process according to most engineers. Remember, the best automotive engineers in the world come from Europe where gas has been 2.5 times what it has been in America forever and they still drive petroleum fuel-based vehicles. There is no panacea right around the corner for oil.

So save your factless emotion-based arguments for other liberals. They don't work on rational people who examine evidence for themselves to find logical conclusions. People like you won't be happy until we see another 1970's style energy crisis and once again have to sell our souls to those who want nothing more than our destruction and our complete loss of sovereignty.

Wake yourself up, for you own sake and everyone else's.

[brien]

What a beautiful straw man post. You have assumed a lot of positions that I don't hold.

I am not "so against drilling", I just think that it is like giving a cocaine addict more cocaine... I think it's ineffective and not the right direction we should be taking. The oil companies already have rights to drill in a lot of places that they aren't taking advantage of. Opening up new places won't lower the prices.

The high oil prices are caused by investor speculation, uncertainty in the middle east, and the weakening of the dollar. Demand for oil has actually gone down with the price of gas going up...but that hasn't led to lower prices. The prices have gone up even as Americans went to a historic ten year low in consumption.

As for the whole "we must not be dependant on forigen oil"...I completely agree. However, I don't believe the answer is simply to drill all of the US based oil, until we run out, and then go with hat in hand and ask for oil from Chavez or whomever...

Strawman post eh? You have effectively dodged most of the questions I have asked here. I am not arguing the price of oil. I am arguing the availability should there be a disruption in the foreign supply to the US. Ths is the real danger to the US.

I don't know your positions so I am assuming nothing. If you answer the questions in my three posts, then we will have something more to discuss here.

I can't speak to what leases oil companies aren't drilling now but I suppose they don't drill what isn't profitable. It is my understanding not all leases produce oil. They have said they will drill ANWR where they know there is an abundance of oil. But this is besides the point. They should be alllowed to drill where there are proven reserves that they aren't allowed to drill now. It is a national security issue. Even if they don't harvest the resources, at least they are there, ready to go, should we need them in a national emergency.

Why is it ineffective to open more drilling in the US when we are 70% dependent upon foreign oil? What will happen if that foreign oil is cut off? If we have working wells in ANWR and off the coast, we can redirect that oil and keep it here in the US in the event of a national emergency. If we don't have them, we are that much more exposed to foreign influence and even foreign domination.

Lastly, I never wrote we should only drill. I wrote that we need a comprehensive energy policy that includes all forms of energy development in the next ten years. Please read my writing carefully. Thanks..

[Elrathin]

Lastly, I never wrote we should only drill. I wrote that we need a comprehensive energy policy that includes all form of energy development in the next ten years. Please read my writing carefully. Thanks..

so when someone brings about a comprehensive energy plan that includes other things as well as drilling others like myself will be more responsive.

Until then, they have their leases to drill NOW but they choose not to. The problem is that they wouldn't be getting RECORD profits drilling where they can.

Profit is their only concern.

[xLIBREx]

so when someone brings about a comprehensive energy plan that includes other things as well as drilling others like myself will be more responsive.

Can you please show me in the Constitution where the government is supposed to have an energy plan at all? (I won't hold my breath, we saw where that went last time).

This is simply about getting out of the way of the free market. That's the problem you are unable to recognize.

Until then, they have their leases to drill NOW but they choose not to. The problem is that they wouldn't be getting RECORD profits drilling where they can.

You really shouldn't just post without doing some research. You obviously don't understand how oil leases work in the least. The government puts up massive amounts of land via lottery for $3-$4 an acre for a ten year lease. You get no choice on the land, you get what you are given via chance. Are you really trying to say you believe ALL THE LAND HAS OIL ON IT? Do you know some of this land is leased out over and over again?

Hmm, in the meantime oil companies are drilling on private property in places like North Dakota and paying huge royalties just to get at the oil. Would this make any sense if they could just drill on dirt cheap lease lands and not pay any royalty? Of course not.

So your assertion that they should just drill on the unused land leases is about as ignorant as it gets on the subject.

That's the problem I see with so many liberals (and to a lesser extent righties, but we aren't talking about them on this issue). You know so much which simply isn't true. You hold so many axioms which really have no basis in reality whatsoever.

Profit is their only concern.

Yeah, they should just give the oil away. Hey, do some math on this one and get back to us. Exxon/Mobil made a $40B profit. In that same time period they sold 200B gallons of gas. Let's assume they made all of their profit from gas and none from their chemicals division (we can include that if you like, but that will lower the profit per gallon even more and make your argument even more foolish). How much profit are they making per gallon then?

Seriously, do the math and give us an answer. Let's see if you can do it. Now this amount would be the maximum amount they could reduce the price of a gallon of gas by if they decided to take no profit at all (it wouldn't really work that way as lower price would equal more demand which would in turn drive the price back up anyway, but just for the sake of argument). So how much are these "greedy bastards" making per gallon?

[Mouth Full Of Teeth]

Strawman post eh? You have effectively dodged most of the questions I have asked here. I am not arguing the price of oil. I am arguing the availability should there be a disruption in the foreign supply to the US. Ths is the real danger to the US.

Yes, I answered that. You simply didn't like the answer. My answer is that we find a solution that doesn't involve giving more crack to the crackhead.

I don't know your positions so I am assuming nothing. If you answer the questions in my three posts, then we will have something more to discuss here.

Again, I did answer your question...you just didn't like the answer. But, in any event, you did assume and attribute positions to me. Incorrectly.

I can't speak to what leases oil companies aren't drilling now but I suppose they don't drill what isn't profitable. It is my understanding not all leases produce oil. They have said they will drill ANWR where they know there is an abundance of oil. But this is besides the point. They should be alllowed to drill where there are proven reserves that they aren't allowed to drill now. It is a national security issue. Even if they don't harvest the resources, at least they are there, ready to go, should we need them in a national emergency.

Everything is a "national security issue" with the neo-cons....<shrug>

Why is it ineffective to open more drilling in the US when we are 70% dependent upon foreign oil? What will happen if that foreign oil is cut off? If we have working wells in ANWR and off the coast, we can redirect that oil and keep it here in the US in the event of a national emergency. If we don't have them, we are that much more exposed to foreign influence and even foreign domination.

Actually, it's about 60%...but facts are really irrelevant, right?

Again, you are asking the same thing over again. Been there, answered that.

Lastly, I never wrote we should only drill. I wrote that we need a comprehensive energy policy that includes all forms of energy development in the next ten years. Please read my writing carefully. Thanks..

No where did say that you said we should "only drill". Please read my writing carefully.

[PostmodernProphet]

Very easy. I'll even write it so that you can understand it...

it always amazes me the lengths some people will go to, to avoid having to back up the crap they post.....

[PostmodernProphet]

I'll just posts the most recent one...OK?



http://features.csmonitor.com/environment/2008/07/31/gop-lawmakers-block-renewable-energy-credit-bill/

Oh...and that whole ethanol thingy...not so green, but still a nice try.

a wise move....points out the fact the Democrats are unwilling to act to solve our energy problems.....if they would get off their ass and agree to drilling we would have both oil AND renewable energy....

[Phyxius]

no, I don't think the GOP will win back Congress.....but I think Dem control of the House will be reduced....and I don't expect to see either Reid or Pelosi running things next year.......they fucked things up too badly the last two for the Dems to give them another chance.....

yes, McCain will win the election for president......

Denial - it's not just a river in Egypt... :madlaugh:

[Mouth Full Of Teeth]

it always amazes me the lengths some people will go to, to avoid having to back up the crap they post.....

Yeah, kind of like your definition of atheist. But, anyway...back to the topic at hand...

[Defensor]

I'll be really impressed if the GOP succeeds in shutting down the government. Hopefully permanently.

[PostmodernProphet]

Denial - it's not just a river in Egypt... :madlaugh:

is that the one you're trying to go UP without a paddle?.....

[lily]

You really shouldn't just post without doing some research. You obviously don't understand how oil leases work in the least. The government puts up massive amounts of land via lottery for $3-$4 an acre for a ten year lease. You get no choice on the land, you get what you are given via chance. Are you really trying to say you believe ALL THE LAND HAS OIL ON IT? Do you know some of this land is leased out over and over again?

Let's look at that first paragraph of the auction........see the bold? Oil companies are not in the market to just lease land and use a willow branch and see if there is oil on the land. They do get a choice. If they are done with those......fine give them back and start all over again........until then........clean your plate before asking for seconds.


.......but anyway.....how about them Repubicans saying they are going to shut the government down?

[xLIBREx]

Let's look at that first paragraph of the auction........see the bold? Oil companies are not in the market to just lease land and use a willow branch and see if there is oil on the land. They do get a choice. If they are done with those......fine give them back and start all over again........until then........clean your plate before asking for seconds.


.......but anyway.....how about them Repubicans saying they are going to shut the government down?

What you are saying doesn't make sense because your analogy isn't really analogous. The land would be the plates, but the oil would be the food. In this case, you get plates where some have food on them and some don't simply by the luck of the draw (literally because the leases are distributed via lottery).

The plates are clear. The food has been tapped. That's what you don't seem to get. You have simply heard that same left wing lie about "unused oil leases" repeated over and over again and you have obviously never really thought much about it. You just accept it because it's the party line.

As I stated earlier, why would the oil companies be resorting to drilling on private property, where they have to pay huge royalties, instead of just drilling on their dirt cheap land leases? I thought the big evil oil companies only cared about profit?

Oh well, I guess the oil companies just want to make ma and pa millionaires out of the goodness of their hearts:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/25466382/

[lily]

As I stated earlier, why would the oil companies be resorting to drilling on private property, where they have to pay huge royalties, instead of just drilling on their dirt cheap land leases? I thought the big evil oil companies only cared about profit?

Did you even read the link.........it was only one paragraph.

Oh well, I guess the oil companies just want to make ma and pa millionaires out of the goodness of their hearts:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/25466382/

I posted that aricle months ago...........lightning does strike!

[ECW]

no, basically Democratic incompetence is going to win it for the GOP.....Yeah.

I heard that before.

A year and a half ago.

Keep hammering away on these non-issues and watch the ass reaming the American public gives you this fall.

Would you like to make your predictions right now?

Will the GOP win back the House?

Will the GOP win back the Senate?

Will McCain win the WH?

Time to put up or STFU.

(And I would love to see the GOP shut down the government over this bogus drilling shit. Shutting down the government worked so well last time for you. It will just show the public you can BS but you cannot govern, as if they did not know that already.)
no, I don't think the GOP will win back Congress.....but I think Dem control of the House will be reduced....and I don't expect to see either Reid or Pelosi running things next year.......they fucked things up too badly the last two for the Dems to give them another chance.....

yes, McCain will win the election for president......

So, let me get this straight. You are saying that the bogus oil drilling will win it for the GOP but you are NOT predicting the GOP to take back the Senate OR the House, only the WH. That's what you call winning for the GOP, with a presidential candidate that a lot of the GOP can't even stand? That's winning it?

MWHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHA

[ECW]

Originally Posted by ECW
The bogus domestic oil drilling "controversy" is going to win this for the GOP? With oil ten years away from actual usage if we drilled today; this issue is going to win it all this year? I thought the John Edwards affair was the GOP issue. I thought Edwards' dalliances were the lock the GOP was looking for, not drilling for oil. Why bring up the oil deal when you have the Edwards affair to ride to victory? What gives?
What's bogus is, "we won't get any oil from new drillimng for 10 years".

Just in case you had not heard what is what about "new drillimng" ...

It's a very bad idea. (http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/06/18/bush.offshore/) First of all, it will take 30 years before it affects gas prices -- lowering them -- and it will take 10 years to start the drilling," New Mexico Governor and former U.S. Energy Secretary Bill Richardson, a Democrat, told CNN. "The answer is a long-term policy that deals with -- substantial policies that promote -- conservation, fuel efficiency in vehicles, an emphasis on renewable energy."

Even if states let drilling proceed, it would take years (http://www.mcclatchydc.com/100/story/41379.html) before new oil would flow.

Obama has opposed exposing more coastline to drilling, saying that oil companies have not fully explored the areas open to drilling now and insisting that it would have little immediate impact on prices at the pump.

After speaking to a capacity crowd at Gibbs High School auditorium in St. Petersburg, he told the Post he would be open to expanding the current drilling boundaries if it meant winning approval for more fuel-efficient cars, developing alternative energy sources and making the country more "energy independent."

"I think it's important for the American people to understand we're not going to drill our way out of this problem," he said.

"It's also important to recognize if you start drilling now you won't see a drop of oil for ten years, which means its not going to have a significant impact on short-term prices. Every expert agrees on that." (http://www.palmbeachpost.com/state/content/state/epaper/2008/08/01/0801obama1.html)

McCain has tried to paint Obama as an obstacle to lower gas prices in a pair of television ads that boast McCain's off-shore drilling position while blaming Obama for $4-per-gallon gas. Neither of the ads have targeted Florida voters.

But analysts say that renewed offshore drilling would have little impact on gas prices anytime soon. (http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2008/06/20/new_offshore_drilling_not_a_quick_fix_analysts_say/)

It would take at least a decade for oil companies to obtain permits, procure equipment, and do the exploration necessary to get the oil out of the ground, most industry analysts say. And even then, they add, the amount of new oil produced would probably be too small to significantly affect world oil prices.

Some analysts point out that the wells the United States now depends on are being depleted, and that new exploration could at least help offset that decline in supply from existing wells.

Yeah.

My claim is "bogus" alright.

Shut down the government over this. God, if only the House Republicans are this stupid...

[tecoyah]

OK...so here we are, at a very delicate crossroads economically. We are occupying two countries, our people are at war, we have problems with infrastructure, energy, international relations, poverty, etc.....................


And for some reason the republicans I pay to make my country a better place think it's a good Idea to shut down the machine we use to run this whole place?

I do not see the logic...I see a spoiled 5 yr old at the grocery store throwing a tantrum.

[PostmodernProphet]

So, let me get this straight. You are saying that the bogus oil drilling will win it for the GOP but you are NOT predicting the GOP to take back the Senate OR the House, only the WH. That's what you call winning for the GOP, with a presidential candidate that a lot of the GOP can't even stand? That's winning it?

MWHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHA

uh, ECW, anything that makes a liberal look like an idiot is a win for conservatives.....that why I love posting on these boards.......

[tecoyah]

uh, ECW, anything that makes a liberal look like an idiot is a win for conservatives.....that why I love posting on these boards.......


I don't suppose you see the Irony of this statement....do You?

Oh...wait....I forgot who I was replying to.

[PostmodernProphet]

I don't suppose you see the Irony of this statement....do You?

Oh...wait....I forgot who I was replying to.

but tecoyah.....the fact you think it is irony is another of those things which bring me joy.....

[xLIBREx]

OK...so here we are, at a very delicate crossroads economically. We are occupying two countries, our people are at war, we have problems with infrastructure, energy, international relations, poverty, etc.....................


And for some reason the republicans I pay to make my country a better place think it's a good Idea to shut down the machine we use to run this whole place?

I do not see the logic...I see a spoiled 5 yr old at the grocery store throwing a tantrum.

So, where is your post chastising your party for going on vacation and not allowing the government to examine energy policy in the first place.

Excuse me sir, your partisanship is showing.

[brien]

Yes, I answered that. You simply didn't like the answer. My answer is that we find a solution that doesn't involve giving more crack to the crackhead.



Again, I did answer your question...you just didn't like the answer. But, in any event, you did assume and attribute positions to me. Incorrectly.



Everything is a "national security issue" with the neo-cons....<shrug>



Actually, it's about 60%...but facts are really irrelevant, right?

Again, you are asking the same thing over again. Been there, answered that.



No where did say that you said we should "only drill". Please read my writing carefully.

You didn't answer these questions:

How would you live without oil?

How would you feed yourself and your family?

How would you work?

How would the US economy fucntion without even part of the oil we import?

You didn't answer the question with regard to China drilling off the coast of FLorida.

You didn't address the issue of demanding other nations to drill oil while we sit back and enjoy the view in ANWR.

So you say you answered these questions but I don't see them anywhere in your posts. Where are they? Which post numbers?

And yes it is a national security issue whether you like to admit it or not. How would this country survive a oil boycott by the foreign nations who supply us all of our foreign oil? You can call it a "neocon" issue but that name calling is simply your vacuous way of avoiding an intelligent answer probably because you don't have one. If foreign oil is shut off to this country, it will go down the tubes if we don't have an national energy plan based upon domestic sources. Show us how the economy, and the American lifestyle, won't collapse if it isn't a national security issue. It is nearly always people like you who "shrug" that are the first to turn to the government when something goes wrong in the US, yet you "shrug" when it comes to preparations for these problems, particularly with regard to this most serious issue of US reliance on foreign oil. How convenient. I suggest you read the "Three Little Pigs" story.

You keep referring to a crackhead. I see the image but I would remind you that opiate based drug addiction is never treated by professionals "cold turkey". It is always treated by Drs in a gradual withdrawal, so to use your own analogy, you would have to admit this nation must be gradually weaned off oil, therefore this isn't happening overnight. Almost every expert agrees we are years and years away from having an economy that isn't based upon oil. So your analogy holds up when you completely examine it, just draw it out and you will see how we need to have a domestic oil supply to replace foreign oil should it be interrupted from the flow abroad.

60% /70% now you want to nitpick. I yi yi.. Did you supply a link for this figure? I have supplied links for mine. Nevertheless, the FACT remains the US economy would collapse if the foreign oil spigot were shut off. You seem to refuse to face the fact that this economy would collapse without oil. That IS a national security issue and to "shrug" it off is either irresponsible, foolish, or just plain ignorant.

Better wake up from your dream soon and realize it could turn into a nightmare for you if the flow of foreign oil to the US is disrupted. The only answer is to replace it with domestic based sources that could be redirected to the US to sustain the lifestyle, as best as possible, that allows you and I to come here daily and discuss these situations. Without oil, it all goes away my friend. Better wake up because the alarm bells are ringing and you are simply rolling over and going back to sleep.

[Defensor]

OK...so here we are, at a very delicate crossroads economically. We are occupying two countries, our people are at war, we have problems with infrastructure, energy, international relations, poverty, etc.....................


And for some reason the republicans I pay to make my country a better place think it's a good Idea to shut down the machine we use to run this whole place?
You mean the same machine that created all the problems you just described?

[Mouth Full Of Teeth]

You didn't answer these questions:

How would you live without oil?

How would you feed yourself and your family?

How would you work?

How would the US economy fucntion without even part of the oil we import?

You didn't answer the question with regard to China drilling off the coast of FLorida.

You didn't address the issue of demanding other nations to drill oil while we sit back and enjoy the view in ANWR.

So you say you answered these questions but I don't see them anywhere in your posts. Where are they? Which post numbers?

What I find hillarious is that you seem to think that opening up drilling, when the oil companies aren't using much of the land that they already have open to them, will answer these questions.

Of course, you did ignore what I did say. For example, you haven't responded to this comment:
"As for the whole "we must not be dependant on forigen oil"...I completely agree. However, I don't believe the answer is simply to drill all of the US based oil, until we run out, and then go with hat in hand and ask for oil from Chavez or whomever..."

I suggest you read the "Three Little Pigs" story.

And I suggest you read the one about the "Boy Who Called Wolf"...

You keep referring to a crackhead. I see the image but I would remind you that opiate based drug addiction is never treated by professionals "cold turkey". It is always treated by Drs in a gradual withdrawal, so to use your own analogy, you would have to admit this nation must be gradually weaned off oil, therefore this isn't happening overnight. Almost every expert agrees we are years and years away from having an economy that isn't based upon oil. So your analogy holds up when you completely examine it, just draw it out and you will see how we need to have a domestic oil supply to replace foreign oil should it be interrupted from the flow abroad.

Yet, what are the neo-cons screaming about? Further investments in green technologies, or opening up more places to drill oil? Actually, the only time the neo-cons mention green technologies lately is to say that they won't support them unless these further places are opened up to drilling. So, it seems to me that the analogy, holds...

Nevertheless, the FACT remains the US economy would collapse if the foreign oil spigot were shut off.

Yes, and fears of the future seem to be the driving force out of any neo-con decision... Look, there's the wolf now!

You seem to refuse to face the fact that this economy would collapse without oil.

No where did I say any such thing. Again, more straw man bullcrap.

Better wake up from your dream soon and realize it could turn into a nightmare for you if the flow of foreign oil to the US is disrupted. The only answer is to replace it with domestic based sources that could be redirected to the US to sustain the lifestyle, as best as possible, that allows you and I to come here daily and discuss these situations.

That is not the "only answer"...but it seems the only answer you're willing to consider.

Without oil, it all goes away my friend. Better wake up because the alarm bells are ringing and you are simply rolling over and going back to sleep.

Alarm bells have been ringing for a long, long time. Jimmy Carter made some great speaches on the subject in the early 80's. Where we disagree is what to do about it.

[brien]

so when someone brings about a comprehensive energy plan that includes other things as well as drilling others like myself will be more responsive.

Until then, they have their leases to drill NOW but they choose not to. The problem is that they wouldn't be getting RECORD profits drilling where they can.

Profit is their only concern.


Many leases do not show the promise that ANWR and off coast drilling show. Can you show us the leases that have a profitable reserves which aren't being drilled? Where are they? I have heard this from some elected officals but they haven't named those lease locations.

Nevertheless, you are saying if drilling isn't linked to other alternatives, you advocate doing nothing? It's either all the marbles or none of them? Why can't we support a multifaceted approach to each resource independently? If we don't, it is foolish and usuallly the stuff partisanship and stalmates are made up of with regard to these issues on Capitol Hill.

Being unresponsive is exactly what has got us to this point in time. Unresponsiveness by a partisan government is what has yielded no national energy progam over the last 40 years since the oil shocks of the 70's Are you old enough to remember odd and even days to get gasoline? That would be a cake walk if the flow of foreign oil was interrupted to America now. Unresponsiveness is a shameful and irresponsible position which is directly responsible for our situation today and you seem to advocate more of it. Great, good policy there, Elrathin.

You make it sound like oil profits are a bad and evil thing. I would remind you that record oil profits yield record tax payments to the government saving YOU an increase in your taxes. The government rakes in more money on a percentage basis in oil taxes, (and they have no overhead) than the oil companies could ever earn in profits, and you scold the oil companies?? You should realize which side of the bread your butter is on there Elrathin.

[xLIBREx]

Why don't we just get the government out of the way since they will invariably pick the wrong alternative? To believe that the government can out-think the free market and market forces is laughable. It has never happened in the past and there is no reason to think it will happen in the future. It's not the job of the government to dictate energy policy. Nowhere in the Constitution are they granted that power.

What we are seeing today is the result of 8 decades of our government mandating a policy of oil and providing hundreds of billions of dollars in subsidy to protect oil interests for the entire world via our military. Why do both sides believe that the way you fix the enormous hole the government has dug us is to give them a bigger shovel?

The reality is, we need oil (and we aren't just talking about gas for our cars). That isn't going to change for decades. There is no panacea around the corner. So, we need to get our government out of the way and let the market take it's course. For once the Republicans are actually acting like conservatives (a rare thing over the past 8 years) and simply trying to get the government out of the way and what is standing in the way:

http://www.michaeltotten.com/archives/images/Nancy%20Pelosi.jpg

Scary.

[brien]

What I find hillarious is that you seem to think that opening up drilling, when the oil companies aren't using much of the land that they already have open to them, will answer these questions.

Of course, you did ignore what I did say. For example, you haven't responded to this comment:
"As for the whole "we must not be dependant on forigen oil"...I completely agree. However, I don't believe the answer is simply to drill all of the US based oil, until we run out, and then go with hat in hand and ask for oil from Chavez or whomever..."



And I suggest you read the one about the "Boy Who Called Wolf"...



Yet, what are the neo-cons screaming about? Further investments in green technologies, or opening up more places to drill oil? Actually, the only time the neo-cons mention green technologies lately is to say that they won't support them unless these further places are opened up to drilling. So, it seems to me that the analogy, holds...



Yes, and fears of the future seem to be the driving force out of any neo-con decision... Look, there's the wolf now!



No where did I say any such thing. Again, more straw man bullcrap.



That is not the "only answer"...but it seems the only answer you're willing to consider.



Alarm bells have been ringing for a long, long time. Jimmy Carter made some great speaches on the subject in the early 80's. Where we disagree is what to do about it.


I never said we should drill for US based oil and use it until we run out. You don't seem to read and comprehend very well. In fact, I wrote that this would not be the case. This oil would be on the worldwide market unless there was a disruption in the foreign flow to the US. Then, in the case of a disruption, we would have a domestic supply to call upon and use here in the US.

No one is crying wolf here. It is a real threat that we could lose our foreign supply from Chavez if he so chose to sell to China or India. It is a real threat that the Straits of Hormuz could be closed down by war or by Iran. Iran has already threatened to do it. It is a real threat that terrorist activity could destroy any pipeline that supplies the ME, Canada, Mexico, and Brazil, all of whom are major suppliers to the US. So no one is crying wolf. We are merely being realistic in planning for a threat that could easily come as early as tomorrow. It is you who are foolish to trivialize it, or worse, ignore it. You would do well to reconsider the prospect of it. Look waht is happening in Georgia today. Another fight for oil. Russia seeking to confisgate more oil for themselves. Hmmmmmm I wonder why?

I don't care one whit what neocons are screaming about here. If alternative energy products are proved to be economically viable, the US market will embrace them, buy them ,and support them. There aren't enough "neocons" in the government to prevent profitable ideas from becomming a reality out in the market. Faulting "neocons" is merely a diversion by partisans who refuse to address the real solutions to the energy crisis we are in today. The fact of the matter is that the US government for the past 40 years has failed the American public in bringing to them a comprehensive energy bill that could protect you and I from the certain collapse of our society should the foreign oil spigot go dry tomorrow.

I never wrote that drillling was the "only answer". I wrote the exact opposite and called for a "multi fueled" approach to solving this energy crisis. It is obvious to me you don't read my writing very carefully. I have seen evidence of this before in your posts.

Now, for the third time, where are your answers to these questions you said you answered?

How would you live without oil?

How would you feed yourself and your family?

How would you work?

How would the US economy fucntion without even part of the oil we import?

You didn't answer the question with regard to China drilling off the coast of FLorida.

You didn't address the issue of demanding other nations to drill oil while we sit back and enjoy the view in ANWR.


Try taking them on one by one and try to be specific please...

[Troubadour]

Good for the GOP

And bad for America, as usual.

they haven't done much right in the past few years

When Republicans do something right, it's by accident.

but this is the issue which is going to win them the election and they are playing it perfectly.

Failed attack strategies to date:
(1) He's not Christian!
(2) He's Christian, but has a weird pastor!
(3) Inexperienced.
(4) Tax increases.
(5) Celebrity.
(6) He's a furrener!
(7) Anti-Christ
(9) Innuendo about blonde white women.
(10) He's snubbing the troops!
(11) He's presumptuously visiting the troops!
(12) He's not visiting Iraq!
(13) He's presumptuously visiting Iraq!
(14) Foreign policy lightweight.
(15) He's too popular and persuasive with foreigners.
(16) He's "fancy" (unlike reg-uh-lar Amurrcan McCain)
(17) His wife hates Amurrca.
(18) He traitorously fails to wear a flag lapel pin!

But this time, I'm sure McCain and his band of C.H.U.D.s have finally hit on something. Just like they will tomorrow and every day until the election of President Barack Obama.

The fact is, our country is overwhelmingly for domestic oil production.

Oh, you mean in a poll where the question is "Do you favor domestic oil production over foreign oil production," they choose the former? ROFLMAO. The country is overwhelmingly for clean energy, but Republicans are filibustering it to extort Americans on behalf of oil lobbyists. It's good they get that kind of thing out of their system before they no longer have the seats to sustain it.

This is going to be a very embarrassing defeat on both this issue, and the November election. If you can't beat Bush III, you truly are pathetic.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,402101,00.html

We already have beaten Bush III. Barack Obama is not playing games, nor are his supporters, and he is not asking for the RNC's permission to become President. He already is President in the minds of more Americans than you dare to imagine, and Rove's disciples have all but destroyed their own candidate trying to "get to" an opponent always five steps ahead of them. And there's McCain hawking oil company tax cuts and "We are all Georgians" in the supermarket cheese aisle while Barack Obama leads America from all 50 states and half the world. You think Republicans are going to launch a few attack ads, rig a few voting machines and stifle a typhoon? I don't think they believe their own words to this effect - they sense this is different, and they're running out of ideas fast.

[Mouth Full Of Teeth]

The opening of these additional areas for drilling only delays and enables the failing market of oil consumption. America doesn't need to enable this addiction any longer. The fact is that the US is currently EXPORTING some of the oil it produces (https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/us.html -- over 1 million bbl/day). Opening up these additional places to drill, when they are already not using other areas open to them only deflects the real issue. That is that we need to gain independence of oil, altogether. That will take time and during that time we will still need to consume oil. But, I will not buy into the hysteria that if we open these oil fields, they will be used to actually make the US independent of foreign oil. The oil companies and the US aren't currently looking to gain independence from foreign oil. The oil companies are only looking for a profit. And that profit includes selling oil that is produced in the US... And the Bush administration and the Republicans like to enable them. The whole thing is a straw man...

As for your questions, they are irrelevant. They are further part of your straw man argument. My argument isn't and has never been that we can stop using oil today. My argument isn't and has never been that if foreign countries cut off oil, that we wouldn't be hurt. My argument is about what to do with that knowledge.

You want to enable the republicans who will have claimed to have "done something about it", if they open up those additional areas for drilling.

I call bullshit.

I say that is putting a band-aid on an amputated leg. And I just know that those who put resources and energy into opening those additional oil fields, will not put those same resources and energy into finding an actual solution...

[brien]

Troubadour wrote:

"The country is overwhelmingly for clean energy, but Republicans are filibustering it to extort Americans on behalf of oil lobbyists. It's good they get that kind of thing out of their system before they no longer have the seats to sustain it."


Oh, I suppose this is why Pelosi and Obama have suddenly changed their position on offshore drilling?

http://prorev.com/2008/08/obama-flips-on-offshore-oil-drilling.html

Saturday, August 2
OBAMA FLIPS ON OFFSHORE OIL DRILLING

Reuters - Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama said he would back limited offshore drilling as part of a broader energy package that attempted to bring down gas prices and reduce U.S. dependence on foreign oil. Obama dropped his blanket opposition to any expansion of offshore drilling and signaled support for a bipartisan compromise in Congress aimed at breaking a deadlock on energy that includes limited drilling. . .

The bill would require the government to open additional areas in the Gulf of Mexico for development and would allow drilling off the coasts of Virginia, North Carolina, South Carolina, and Georgia if those states give permission.

A commission would be created to recommend areas to be opened for leasing in the future. Offshore production would still only be allowed 50 miles from the shore, and all the new oil produced would have to be used domestically.

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http://bloodthirstyliberal.com/?p=6882


House Speaker Nancy Pelosi on Monday night dropped her staunch opposition to a vote on offshore oil drilling in the House.

Republicans, reacting to high gas prices, have demanded a vote on additional oil exploration in the Outer Continental Shelf, where drilling is currently blocked by a moratorium. Until now, Pelosi (D-Calif.) has resisted the idea as a “hoax.” But in an interview on CNN’s Larry King Live, she indicated that she was open to a vote.

“They have this thing that says drill offshore in the protected areas,” Pelosi said. “We can do that. We can have a vote on that.”

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The fact of this whole stinking matter is that every US Congress and President since the oil shocks of the 70's has failed to do anything that will seriously move the US towards energy independence. Both Democrats and Republicans are to blame, so to take a partisan side here, is to merely show blind loyalty to a political party that has FAILED the American people and placed us in the precarious postion we find ourselves in today.

Go ahead, put all of your hope in Obama or McCain, and you will only get more of the same. I can't wait for your lifestyle to shut down when the oil is shut off. What in the hell will you all do then? Who are you going to blame. As if blame will help you then. Did blame help the victims of Katrina? Did blame help the victims of the Tsunami? Better wake up because you all on a ship of fools.

You all remind me of this song by Bob Seeger:

Words and music by bob seger

Tell me quick said old mcfee
Whats this all have to do with me?
Ive spent all my time at sea a loner.

Is there something else I should know?
Something hidden down below the level of your conversation?
Well he turned away before the answer
Though I yelled aloud he refused to hear
It became too clear
So it went as we put out
I was left in constant doubt
Everything I asked about seemed private

The captain strolled the bridge one night
I stopped him in the evening light
To ask him would it be all right to join him

But he stood there like some idol
And he listened like some temple
And then he turned away

All along the fateful coast
We moved silent like a ghost
The timeless sea of tireless host possessed us
The wind came building from the cold northwest
And soon the waves began to crest
Crashing cross the forward deck
All hands lost

I alone survived the sinking
I alone possessed the tools
On that ship of fools

Are the lyrics here appropriate to the US today? You bet I think so..

[brien]

The opening of these additional areas for drilling only delays and enables the failing market of oil consumption. America doesn't need to enable this addiction any longer. The fact is that the US is currently EXPORTING some of the oil it produces (https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/us.html -- over 1 million bbl/day). Opening up these additional places to drill, when they are already not using other areas open to them only deflects the real issue. That is that we need to gain independence of oil, altogether. That will take time and during that time we will still need to consume oil. But, I will not buy into the hysteria that if we open these oil fields, they will be used to actually make the US independent of foreign oil. The oil companies and the US aren't currently looking to gain independence from foreign oil. The oil companies are only looking for a profit. And that profit includes selling oil that is produced in the US... And the Bush administration and the Republicans like to enable them. The whole thing is a straw man...

As for your questions, they are irrelevant. They are further part of your straw man argument. My argument isn't and has never been that we can stop using oil today. My argument isn't and has never been that if foreign countries cut off oil, that we wouldn't be hurt. My argument is about what to do with that knowledge.

You want to enable the republicans who will have claimed to have "done something about it", if they open up those additional areas for drilling.

I call bullshit.

I say that is putting a band-aid on an amputated leg. And I just know that those who put resources and energy into opening those additional oil fields, will not put those same resources and energy into finding an actual solution...

You miss the point on my questions. No one said we can stop using oil today. That is precisely my point, thank you. We can't stop using oil for the foreseeable future. This is my point, and the reason for the questions; what would you do if the oil were cut off and you were FORCED to live without oil. Something you just can't seem to envision, much less accept as a possiblity. With all due repsect, you should think again.

We do need to enable the oil addiction because it is an addiction. You have already admitted we can't go cold turkey. We need to wean ourselves away from oil but that doesn't mean we can't and shouldn't drill for our own security should we need it. You are missing this very important point. We can't rely upon foreigners for our national security. And if you don't think we need oil for our national security, I don't see the need to continue this debate any longer.

You furthermore, refuse to accept that the more US oil we have access to, the more independent it will make the US in the event of a national or world oil crisis. I have shown you how we are merely days away from a serious shortage, yet you still refuse to support everything we can do to prevent this, should it happen tomorrow, next year, or in 5 -10 years. We must be prepared to allow all proven oil reserves to meet any challenge of an oil crisis. To do anything less is irresponsible, shortsighted, and foolish.

But hey, if you think you can live without oil, then maintain your position, but when the proverbial shit hits the fan, where will you be then? Better to be prepared and not need it, than be unprepared and need it. If the oil were cut off next month, next year, or in five years, you would be screwed and you can't argue this isn't true. I suggest that you think about it some more. It is already 40 years too late!

Were you around during the oil shortages of the 70's? Do you remember odd and even rationing? Just curious?

[Mouth Full Of Teeth]

You miss the point on my questions. No one said we can stop using oil today. That is precisely my point, thank you.

I missed the point of your questions and then you thank me for proving your point?
:ecstatic:

As for the rest, you simply repeated your position that I already covered....

[tecoyah]

So, where is your post chastising your party for going on vacation and not allowing the government to examine energy policy in the first place.

Excuse me sir, your partisanship is showing.


Damn...I had no Idea there was an independent party in power...let alone they were on Vacation, I need to read more I suppose.

As far as the Democrats (I assume you refer to them)...Yeah, they should have fixed this mess long ago, but I am wise enough to understand just how they get hampered by Republican tactics.

Both Parties suck....in my opinion.

[Troubadour]

Troubadour wrote:

"The country is overwhelmingly for clean energy, but Republicans are filibustering it to extort Americans on behalf of oil lobbyists. It's good they get that kind of thing out of their system before they no longer have the seats to sustain it."

Oh, I suppose this is why Pelosi and Obama have suddenly changed their position on offshore drilling?

No, but it's why Republicans are desperately insisting they have. Filibustering clean energy bills and demanding huge giveaways to Exxon-Mobil at a time of both record oil prices and record oil profits is not the smartest position to be in politically, but they figure they can try to make it about foreign vs. domestic, and "firmness" vs. "flip-floppery." Of course, they've been bursting their forehead veins since the beginning of the election to associate Obama with "foreign" and failing miserably, but they just love to hate so much they can't resist. You're welcome to show me where Obama has ever explicitly ruled out expanded offshore drilling under any circumstances, but of course you can't, so bring on the "celebrity" ads and the accusations of Anti-Christ. McCain is pathetic.

Obama dropped his blanket opposition

There never was "blanket opposition" - he opposes Republican legislation, and supports compromise legislation.

[ECW]

uh, ECW, anything that makes a liberal look like an idiot is a win for conservatives.....

Then you are wasting your time. You've failed countless times.

that why I love posting on these boards.......

Masochism suits you.

Your predictions of a GOP victory in any area are nothing more than wishful thinking except in races where they are running unopposed. Please write your congressman and tell him to shut down the government over this drilling issue. Please. Please. Please. Please. Please. Please. Please. Please. Please. Please. Please. Please. Please. Please. Please. Please. Please. Please. Please. Please. Please. Please. Please. Please. Please. Please. Please. Please. Please. Please. Please. Please. Please. Please. Please. Please. Please. Please. Please. Please. Please. Please. Please. Please. Please. Please. Please. Please. Please. Please. Please. Please. Please. Please. Please. Please. Please. Please. Please. Please. Please. Please. Please. Please. Please. Please. Please. Please. Please. Please. Please. Please. Please. Please. Please. Please. Please. Please. Please. Please. Please. Please.