A call for civility

[dgun]

Why must we disparage the candidate we like lest?

You're supporting McCain? Fine. McCain is a decent man, IMO. But why all the hate and nonsense?

Is it just easier to appeal to the stupid side of people than to act in good faith that average citizens are capable of a slightly higher level of discourse? Can't we engage in an open and honest debate about differences in public policy, and the differences that these two candidates bring, without resorting to the mind numbing idiotic drivel that's spewed by paid pundits every night on cable news and everyday on talk radio?

Obama is a decent human being and a man of some real substance. McCain has proudly served his country for many years in several different capacities. So must we reduce both of them to negative charactures in order to boost our own egos, since we so closely attach our political hopes to a candidate and in turn attach that so closely to our own identity and self worth?

Don't you find it just a little more than coincidental, Mr. Republican, that regardless of who the Democratic nominee for President is, he is a sorry, worthless, son-of-a-gun? And that you really, really, really dislike him?

And Mr. Democrat, don't you find it a little 1984'ish that just 4 years ago there was short lived talked about McCain running on the Kerry ticket as Vice President, and now the guy is an evil scumbag?

Look, McCain and Obama have booth given in to the system quite a bit to get this far, and although this no way exempts them from certain criticisms, can't we keep this in mind when debating the merits of their potential presidencies?

From this day forward let's strive for an open and fair debate and leave childish name calling and Paris Hilton out of it.

[Stoner]

You have to understand political forums are filled with immature morons. No one can explain why but there's a magnet that draws people here who are miserable human beings who want to do nothing but bitch/moan/complain/cry about anything and everything.

You get all types from the old, trailer park geezers who have no friends and find forums like this their only outlet for communicating with the outside world to the young, wet-behind-the-ears kids who log on and recite Moveon/Kos/Air America/left-wing media propaganda word for word because they aren't capable of thinking for themselves yet. You also get everything in between.

Another reason for the immature behavior is this is the internet. The people you see acting in this manner don't act like that in real life. They're safe behind the computer where no one can see them and where they can take the time to Google their responses in an attempt to come across as intelligent.

Best bet is to just scroll past the ones that are biased and do nothing but tote the party line. Unless I see my name being quoted I usually just scroll right past their responses, regardless of how long it took them to cut and paste their post.

[dgun]

regardless of how long it took them to cut and paste their post.

QFT. I have always felt that you were one of the more fairer minded posters, Stoner.

[Milton Bradley]

My hate is genuine, and it has become quite difficult to mask that hate, or contempt, because of the sheer volume of stupidity being practiced by those to which that hatred is focused.


Perhaps if they weren't trampling all over my Constitution...


:sick:


:unreal:


They type of behavior we are seeing in Washington right now is the type of behavior that prompted our Founding Fathers to shoot people, so I'd say the hatred is justified.

[ECW]

You have to understand political forums are filled with immature morons. No one can explain why but there's a magnet that draws people here who are miserable human beings who want to do nothing but bitch/moan/complain/cry about anything and everything.

Wow. What a revelation. With an attitude like this it's a wonder you stay here.

You get all types from the old, trailer park geezers who have no friends and find forums like this their only outlet for communicating with the outside world to the young, wet-behind-the-ears kids who log on and recite Moveon/Kos/Air America/left-wing media propaganda word for word because they aren't capable of thinking for themselves yet. You also get everything in between.

Let's not forget the rightwing types who think the laws of this country apply to others but not themselves and who flaunt the fact they are not law-abiding as if it were a badge of pride, the rightwingers who bookmark Fox News, NewsMax, Rush and Dick Morris and quote them as if they are the Second Coming, the rightwingers who declare something to be fact and expect everyone else to drop and give them 20, the rightwingers who will lie to you and not have a qualm about it because lying to a Liberal isn't a moral downfall for them, the rightwingers who will launch personal attack after personal attack and then take offense when it gets returned to them.

Another reason for the immature behavior is this is the internet. The people you see acting in this manner don't act like that in real life. They're safe behind the computer where no one can see them and where they can take the time to Google their responses in an attempt to come across as intelligent.

That personal responsibility mantra we used to hear from conservatives was just a lot of talk. It doesn't apply either online or in person. The past half dozen presidential campaigns should show you how low they will stoop. Any wonder the discourse between the parties is so negative. Some folks are responding by fighting fire with fire.

Best bet is to just scroll past the ones that are biased and do nothing but tote the party line. Unless I see my name being quoted I usually just scroll right past their responses, regardless of how long it took them to cut and paste their post.

Good. You won't bother responding to this post then. :lmao:

dgun,

This is politics and the desire to win elections trumps personal morality almost every time, sad to say. I wish it were different but it isn't.

[william the wierd]

Having been a libertarian since 68 and a party member since 1980 my dislike for the majors is not partisan. Despite my then an-cap qualms given the choice between a commanding heights lemon socialist like Reagan and a moderate regulatory fascist such as Carter I decided that voting and campaigning for Clark was the only reasonable choice. The last major party candidate I had any respect for was Goldwater although Ike was not a terrible choice even if not a good one. Neither of the majors have been troubled by a thought involving principle for at least a century if not more.

[Leo]

You have to understand political forums are filled with immature morons. No one can explain why but there's a magnet that draws people here who are miserable human beings who want to do nothing but bitch/moan/complain/cry about anything and everything.

You get all types from the old, trailer park geezers who have no friends and find forums like this their only outlet for communicating with the outside world to the young, wet-behind-the-ears kids who log on and recite Moveon/Kos/Air America/left-wing media propaganda word for word because they aren't capable of thinking for themselves yet.

Thank you for that deeply analytical characterisation! :rolleyes:

I have been attending political fora since I was 14, and I have seen exactly the same proportion of nonsense from much older people as I have seen from teens. May I suggest that this so-called 'wet-behind-the-ears kid' is more than capable of thinking for himself, and has been for some time now. And if you were to converse with Comrade (another teen,) you would find the same thing.

As someone who is a centrist, I am aware of the existence of as much right wing propaganda as left wing propaganda.

Is it possible you may care to reconsider your opinion, and rephrase your blanket condemnation of those who frequent political forums? :)

[Stoner]

Is it possible you may care to reconsider your opinion, and rephrase your blanket condemnation of those who frequent political forums? :)

There are no absolutes in life. Always exceptions to the rule. Stupidity knows no boundaries. Age, race, sex and political affiliation have no marking on intelligence. Shit, most of the young kids on here have far more smarts than some of our old posters.

Lily is a hardcore libbie and I have mass respect for her. Do I despise her politics and think she's extremely bias? Yes, but she's extremely intelligent and a very nice person to boot. Can't say that about most other libs here.

As far as you, Leo, I have no opinion of you either way. Off the top of my head I do not recall any of your posts nor do I even know your political affiliation. Now I have my eye on you. =-|

[slappy]

I've been participating in online discussions since the mid-90s, and if there's one thing I'm sure of, it's that political affiliation, age, religion, nationality...none of them has squat to do with how reasonable or worthwhile a person's contribution to a discussion will be. Sadly, people are asses for much deeper, more personal reasons than any of these other factors. If anything, it's all about upbringing. Good liberal parents and good conservative parents will each bring up reasonable, civil, self-confident people. Give me one of these who disagrees with me on everything over a close-minded ass who thinks I'm right about everything.

[AnnEsthesia]

So a thread about civility is being used to trash people? Interesting.

[Truth_and_Power]

You have to understand political forums are filled with immature morons. No one can explain why but there's a magnet that draws people here who are miserable human beings who want to do nothing but bitch/moan/complain/cry about anything and everything.

You get all types from the old, trailer park geezers who have no friends and find forums like this their only outlet for communicating with the outside world to the young, wet-behind-the-ears kids who log on and recite Moveon/Kos/Air America/left-wing media propaganda word for word because they aren't capable of thinking for themselves yet. You also get everything in between.


So what you're saying is, those on the left are biased partisans? LOL, you should really proofread these posts.

[Leo]

There are no absolutes in life. Always exceptions to the rule. Stupidity knows no boundaries. Age, race, sex and political affiliation have no marking on intelligence. Shit, most of the young kids on here have far more smarts than some of our old posters.

Lily is a hardcore libbie and I have mass respect for her. Do I despise her politics and think she's extremely bias? Yes, but she's extremely intelligent and a very nice person to boot. Can't say that about most other libs here.

As far as you, Leo, I have no opinion of you either way. Off the top of my head I do not recall any of your posts nor do I even know your political affiliation. Now I have my eye on you. =-|

Fair enough. It is just that you gave me the impression that you thought all young people were wet-behind-the-years, and just parroted what they had read. This is only my 9th post here, so I would be surprised if anyone knew much about me, or my politics.

I have already stated that I am centrist in what little political interest I have. I do not know enough about US party politics to make an intelligent contribution to that debate, and if I am honest, party politics and all the generalisations which go with them, bore me rigid.

I'm not at all sure what you Americans mean when you use the term 'liberal' in the pejorative sense, as it has a totally different, and very complimentary, meaning everywhere else in the English speaking world. :)

[DamnYankee]

You have to understand political forums are filled with immature morons. No one can explain why but there's a magnet that draws people here who are miserable human beings who want to do nothing but bitch/moan/complain/cry about anything and everything.

You get all types from the old, trailer park geezers who have no friends and find forums like this their only outlet for communicating with the outside world to the young, wet-behind-the-ears kids who log on and recite Moveon/Kos/Air America/left-wing media propaganda word for word because they aren't capable of thinking for themselves yet. You also get everything in between.

Another reason for the immature behavior is this is the internet. The people you see acting in this manner don't act like that in real life. They're safe behind the computer where no one can see them and where they can take the time to Google their responses in an attempt to come across as intelligent.

Best bet is to just scroll past the ones that are biased and do nothing but tote the party line. Unless I see my name being quoted I usually just scroll right past their responses, regardless of how long it took them to cut and paste their post.

"Immature morons...miserable human beings...old trailer park geezer...friendless...young wet behind the ears...non thinking...everything in between...

Which category would you fit?

Everyone has an opinion and they are no less valid than the next regardless of your station in life. Forums are location in which to socialize with people you have something in common. There are no "morons" here, only people with varying opinions, some you agree with, and some you don't. We all have bias's, no matter if you think you are not bias, you are.

[AnnEsthesia]

"Immature morons...miserable human beings...old trailer park geezer...friendless...young wet behind the ears...non thinking...everything in between...

Which category would you fit?

Everyone has an opinion and they are no less valid than the next regardless of your station in life. Forums are location in which to socialize with people you have something in common. There are no "morons" here, only people with varying opinions, some you agree with, and some you don't. We all have bias's, no matter if you think you are not bias, you are.

Very well said. QFT

[potter]

I'm not at all sure what you Americans mean when you use the term 'liberal' in the pejorative sense, as it has a totally different, and very complimentary, meaning everywhere else in the English speaking world. :)


A lot of people wonder that. BTW, the term isn't used by most Americans, it's usually only used by conservatives and is meant to be a slander.

I've found that basically "Liberal" means "anything on which a conservative would disagree, be it garlic cloves in olives, mixed fruit drinks, dancing, crunchy peanut butter, or social policy.

[dgun]

lol.

This thread was doomed to failure.

[DamnYankee]

I'm not at all sure what you Americans mean when you use the term 'liberal' in the pejorative sense...

"Liberal" is a term used to describe people who want to impose their will on you without them having to abide by those very same standards. Al Gore for one.

It has a much different meaning these days. Most liberals now say they are "progressive." Same thing. It's all BS.

[potter]

"Liberal" is a term used to describe people who want to impose their will on you without them having to abide by those very same standards. Al Gore for one.
.


That's not "liberal", that's a hypocrite.....:embarrased:

Another example - condemning homos then cruising airport bathrooms for blow jobs.....or sponsoring bills fo fight paedeophilia and then propositioning minor children for sex....

............ Or are those called conservatives?

[DamnYankee]

Another example - condemning homos then cruising airport bathrooms for blow jobs.....or sponsoring bills fo fight paedeophilia and then propositioning minor children for sex....

............ Or are those called conservatives?

Sounds criminal. And prosecutable by law.

[Leo]

lol.

This thread was doomed to failure.

I don't think so. I must admit that I responded to what I saw as a bit of an over-generalisation, but this thread interested me.

I posted something along these lines at another place, and got a generally good response. I totally agree with your premise that all this name calling and personal attack is unnecessary, and counter productive. And I am not just referring to the treatment meted out to political candidates.

I have only just arrived here, but the impression I have so far is that of a board largely populated by very sensible and polite people. So I think your post has not been a failure, and I thank you for making it. :)

[NoMoreDems-Reps]

Why must we disparage the candidate we like lest?

You're supporting McCain? Fine. McCain is a decent man, IMO. But why all the hate and nonsense?

Is it just easier to appeal to the stupid side of people than to act in good faith that average citizens are capable of a slightly higher level of discourse? Can't we engage in an open and honest debate about differences in public policy, and the differences that these two candidates bring, without resorting to the mind numbing idiotic drivel that's spewed by paid pundits every night on cable news and everyday on talk radio?



While you're at it, wouldn't it be civil and beneficial to engage in a honest debate about
the public policy, and differences of more then just two candidates? Or is it not civil to
look out side of the REP-DEM Duopoly?

Didn't know if you intentionally excluded other parties or if you are just so "ACCUSTOMED"
to only think of the REP&DEM parties as options for America that you left them out?

[potter]

While you're at it, wouldn't it be civil and beneficial to engage in a honest debate about
the public policy, and differences of more then just two candidates? Or is it not civil to
look out side of the REP-DEM Duopoly?

Didn't know if you intentionally excluded other parties or if you are just so "ACCUSTOMED"
to only think of the REP&DEM parties as options for America that you left them out?


Ahhh...cut him some slack...most Americans are brainwashed into thinking they only have two possible choices.....dgun's point is still very good I'd say :thumbsup:

[Milton Bradley]

Ahhh...cut him some slack...most Americans are brainwashed into thinking they only have two possible choices.....dgun's point is still very good I'd say :thumbsup:


Nah, cutting slack to those who don't "get it" is what landed us where we are now.


This is perhaps the greatest of all the transgressions against free people. Letting other wallow in their ignorance was only a viable option until their ignorance became a liability to the rest of us. Now, all of our freedoms are compromised, and there seems to be little we can do about it because of all the ignorance.

[Easy90]

That's not "liberal", that's a hypocrite.....:embarrased:



Ah...another distinction without a difference!

[dgun]

Hold up guys.

I'm all for the third party folks getting a fair shot. And I believe in most cases the ballot restrictions in place are illegal and designed specifically to keep the 'Duopoly' in power.

I'm not much of a strict party person myself, and I almost dislike the DNC as much as the GOP. But I was more specifically referring to the candidates that most on this board and the US are likely to support.

Let this thread hereby be amended to include a call for civility to the supporters and detractors of any candidate seeking the Presidency of the United States of America.

[ECW]

Let this thread hereby be amended to include a call for civility to the supporters and detractors of any candidate seeking the Presidency of the United States of America.

Lots of luck, brother. When the first post in a thread goes against the very nature of the thread and you let it pass, this thread has very little future unless you start standing up against partisan shots across the bow. I'll be back in a few days to see how far that gets you.

:peace:

[tecoyah]

Civility is often as easy as clicking the back button.

[NoMoreDems-Reps]

Ahhh...cut him some slack...most Americans are brainwashed into thinking they only have two possible choices.....dgun's point is still very good I'd say :thumbsup:

Yes dgun's point is very good we should look at the future of America in a civil manner.
I would add that it is time to also be brutally honest with ourselves and not turn a blind
eye to ANY transgression the EITHER party (The only ones in power) commit against
America ! Because frankly we can not longer afford to let them harm America!

[NoMoreDems-Reps]

Now here's my civil assessment of the front runners :

McCain is looking to follow very closely in Bush's foots step and maintain the Status Quo
He has committed himself to continue spending record amounts of money (THAT WE DON'T
HAVE) fighting in Iraq. A country that had nothing to do with 9-11 ! Saudi Arabia had
far more to do with 9-11 than Iraq !!!
This show stupidity of leadership and should not be supported!

Obama is looking more and more like McCain too (as we get closer to election day).
He might spend less in Iraq but he will spend large amounts of money (WE DON'T HAVE)
to give everyone health coverage. This a nice thing, but it is not the job of Government
to provide all its citizen for all their needs. He too will support and continue the "Status Quo".

When I say Status Quo I'm including the corruption and criminal acts that our politicians do
now. This is what's making America suffer! This can not go on for much longer with out
harmful consequence!

I say we (all Americans) need to change Americas political environment! The REPS&DEMS
have had >120yrs to learn how to do a good job! Shape up or Ship out ! Well their
boat has sailed about 2 decades ago !!!!

Focus on the 2 paragraph.
http://www.ushistory.org/declaration/document/index.htm

The quickest way to bring change to America is to vote in new parties and get the
REPS&DEMS as far away from power as possible ! I do believe Nader is currently our
best tool to clean up Washington and make the Electoral process more Democratic!
These are the most basic and fundamental issues that need to be solved for America
to be able to prosper in a healthy manner.

[william the wierd]

The fact of the matter is that the major parties are on based the premises:

That the system imported to the UK from the Netherlands in 1689 as part of the Whig settlement made sense in the early 20th century for the US in the form of Federal Reserve Board. Given that two economic Nobel prizes were won by demonstrating that the Fed caused the great depression in the US: Friedman for showing Fed bungled the unwinding of the 1920s boom in 1931 and Hayek by showing that the Fed unnecessarily inflated the economy from 1921 on (with 1914 and 1917 as alternative start dates among his critics) leading to various possible disastrous outcomes; yet the beat goes on.

The New Deal and earlier the 1905 liberal welfare state victory in the UK were based on the 1848 settlement of Bismark. FDR was I believe asst. Sec. of the Navy in WWI and he didn't have sense enough to realize that a warfare state hadn't done Germany much good at all.

The Reps are unable or unwilling to make the above case and they act as if they were a serious alternative to the Dems. The strange thing is not that the majors are a sick joke but rather that but rather that a majority of voters treat their candidates as serious.