Russian Hypocrisy in Georgia

[Truth_and_Power]

Russian President Vladimir Putin and Indian Prime Minister Atal Behari Vajpayee on Wednesday voiced strong opposition to unilateral use of force and interference in internal affairs of other countries

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0WDQ/is_2002_Dec_9/ai_95100422

It would appear that Russia has no problem taking their own initiative to deal with another country's internal affairs when it suits them. Where is the U.N. mandate authorizing Russia to invade Georgia?

[IndieVisible]

I totally agree! But russia being the snake they are is using the lie that Georgia is using genocide as an excuse and also claiming their solders were attacked first. Their so-called peace keeping force that was there openly supported the separatists. Since many in Ossetia are Russian, they maintain they are simply protecting their citizens. That would be like USA invading Russia to protect our citizens there lol.

[Truth_and_Power]

This invasion pretty much nullifies any validity russia has had in its criticism of many nations, the U.S. and Israel included.

[potter]

I think I'm going to be content with trying to correct the hypocricies and failures of my own country for the time being....it's more than we handle cleaning up our own plate much less bagging on someone elses..... :peace:

[IndieVisible]

This invasion pretty much nullifies any validity russia has had in its criticism of many nations, the U.S. and Israel included.

Russia is trying hard to deceive the world justifying it's open invasion by accusing the USA as orchestrating it, Israel for supplying weapons, and Ukraine for damn I forgot what but Russia says they are involved too. And last i heard they are now accusing Poland for some thing too :lmao:

Poor Russia they are painting themselves as the victim again! While bragging about their superiority over a rogue nation. pathetic!

[suedanim]

I totally agree! But russia being the snake they are is using the lie that Georgia is using genocide as an excuse and also claiming their solders were attacked first. Their so-called peace keeping force that was there openly supported the separatists. Since many in Ossetia are Russian, they maintain they are simply protecting their citizens. That would be like USA invading Russia to protect our citizens there lol.

OR... like the USA invading Iraq. Their reasoning echos US reasoning for invading Iraq.

Didn't we say we were invading Iraq to protect US citizens? Isn't that what the Bush Doctrine, preemptive war was all about? Didn't we claim Saddam was guilty of genocide too as a cause for invasion?

The point is... why the self-righteous, outraged pontifications, calling THEM liars?? George Bush did the same goddamn thing....and NOW he orders the Russian government around on the grounds the country Russia says they are keeping peace in....is a soveriegn country.

So was/is Iraq.

If Bush and McCain keep up their tough bluster, Iran will definitely have one more and very powerful ally in Russia. Gee thanks a millions neocons!

[michaelr]

I can't believe some of the naiveness by some members here, Russia invaded if you will only after being attacked. What else would they do??

[IndieVisible]

OR... like the USA invading Iraq. Their reasoning echos US reasoning for invading Iraq.

Didn't we say we were invading Iraq to protect US citizens? Isn't that what the Bush Doctrine, preemptive war was all about? Didn't we claim Saddam was guilty of genocide too as a cause for invasion?

The point is... why the self-righteous, outraged pontifications, calling THEM liars?? George Bush did the same goddamn thing....and NOW he orders the Russian government around on the grounds the country Russia says they are keeping peace in....is a soveriegn country.

So was/is Iraq.

If Bush and McCain keep up their tough bluster, Iran will definitely have one more and very powerful ally in Russia. Gee thanks a millions neocons!

What are you saying? Are you saying Russia is justified because you believe we did same thing? Or are you saying both are wrong. It's really hard for me to see exactly what you are trying to say.

But tell you what. Iraq was a mistake. We should have finished in Afghanistan and then moved straight to Iran. Iraq was never a threat. We had Saddam in a box, and he was able to control his own radical factions by the only means they understand over there.

[IndieVisible]

I can't believe some of the naiveness by some members here, Russia invaded if you will only after being attacked. What else would they do??

I guess it depends which reports you believe comrade. Their so-called "peace keeping" force they had over there initiated the attacks. It has been known they openly supported the seperartists and often fired on georgian troops. Also their they crossed over to georgia, not other way around lol. But go ahead and believe Russia, here it's a free country :)

[potter]

But tell you what. Iraq was a mistake. We should have finished in Afghanistan and then moved straight to Iran..


Iran? Why Iran? Iran is not threat to us and has never been, at least not the kind of threat that you would bomb them for. Any threat that might be Iran is due to our own meddling.

[IndieVisible]

Iran? Why Iran? Iran is not threat to us and has never been, at least not the kind of threat that you would bomb them for. Any threat that might be Iran is due to our own meddling.

Iran major threat, they are major terrorist supporter. They will be next, watch.

[potter]

Iran major threat, they are major terrorist supporter. They will be next, watch.


Any proof beyond western propaganda for that claim? Any comment on how our meddling in theier affairs over the past 5 decades maybe justifies some of that hostility?

[michaelr]

I guess it depends which reports you believe comrade. Their so-called "peace keeping" force they had over there initiated the attacks. It has been known they openly supported the seperartists and often fired on georgian troops. Also their they crossed over to georgia, not other way around lol. But go ahead and believe Russia, here it's a free country :)

I am not saying that I support Russia, and I believe that your comrade remark is a bit over the top. I am just telling you the facts. I wont lie but your media does and is in this case...err except for this....

Georgia launched a military strike on the province of South Ossetia, aiming to reclaim it after 16 years of semi-independence. In response, Russia sent tanks in. Moscow says Georgian forces had killed Russian peacekeepers there and were committing acts of "ethnic cleansing" of native Russians living there.

Source............. (http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2008-08-08-question-answer_N.htm)

Now you might not like the facts, but IMO that is no reason to make up a new set of facts, ones that presume your hatred is justified, sorry about that but it is the way it is.

[IndieVisible]

I am not saying that I support Russia, and I believe that your comrade remark is a bit over the top. I am just telling you the facts. I wont lie but your media does and is in this case...err except for this....



Source............. (http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2008-08-08-question-answer_N.htm)

Now you might not like the facts, but IMO that is no reason to make up a new set of facts, ones that presume your hatred is justified, sorry about that but it is the way it is.

Who's denying georgia entered South Ossetia? That's NOT Russia. However Russia not only went in to South Ossetia but also crossed over in to georgia.

And how is comrade over the top? It means "friend'

[potter]

And how is comrade over the top? It means "friend'


To an American it means "communist friend"

Not very nice TBH.....:bye:

[IndieVisible]

To an American it means "communist friend"

Not very nice TBH.....:bye:

Where you get that from, show me link to a American it means communist friend.

[suedanim]

What are you saying? Are you saying Russia is justified because you believe we did same thing? Or are you saying both are wrong. It's really hard for me to see exactly what you are trying to say.

I'm saying we set an international precedent, that other countries were bound to emulate for their own gain...as we did.

No... I'm not saying that because we invaded a soveriegn county, that it is ok for other countries to do the same thing. My pov is that other countries will now justify it based on what we did and WHY.


But tell you what. Iraq was a mistake. We should have finished in Afghanistan and then moved straight to Iran. Iraq was never a threat. We had Saddam in a box, and he was able to control his own radical factions by the only means they understand over there.

Do you not even see the contradiction in your argument?

You are asserting that Russia is wrong, while at the same time encouraging and supporting the US invasion of not just one, but three soveriegn countries.

[xLIBREx]

Lets see South Ossetia is a breakaway territory where 80% of the citizens are Russian Citizens. Russian troops were stationed there with the full blessing of the South Ossetian government long before most people here ever even heard of South Ossetia to repel Georgian invasions. Georgia triggered the offensive knowing full well they would be going up against Russian troops and unfortunately Georgia is our ally so we get dragged into their bullshit.

America should heed the words of Thomas Jefferson:

"I am for free commerce with all nations, political connection with none, and little or no diplomatic establishment. And I am not for linking ourselves by new treaties with the quarrels of Europe, entering that field of slaughter to preserve their balance, or joining in the confederacy of Kings to war against the principles of liberty."

In 209 years we haven't learned our lesson. We didn't learn it in WWI which allowed Hitler to rise and led to WWII and here we are once again making the same exact mistakes.

[December]

Georgian War Crimes

http://es.youtube.com/watch?v=AgqlyY5frZs

[IndieVisible]

If Russia stayed inside of South Ossetian we would not be having this discussion. There was/is no need for them to invade Georgia and even now escalate it's invasion even after they supposidly regained control in South Ossetian.

to suedanim- it all started over terrorists remember? How we got to Afghan. Iraq was a distraction. But once we get back on track I see Iran as next as they are the number one terrorist supporters.

[December]

Now we know WHO trained the Georgians:

From Haaretz:

Jewish Georgian minister: Thanks to Israeli training, we're fending off Russia

By Haaretz Service

Jewish Georgian Minister Temur Yakobshvili on Sunday praised the Israel Defense Forces for its role in training Georgian troops and said Israel should be proud of its military might, in an interview with Army Radio.

"Israel should be proud of its military which trained Georgian soldiers," Yakobashvili told Army Radio in Hebrew, referring to a private Israeli group Georgia had hired.

Yakobashvili, Georgia's minister of reintegration, added that this training provided Georgia with the know-how needed to defend itself against Russian forces in the clashes which erupted last last week in the separatist region of South Ossetia.
Advertisement

Yakobashvili said that a small group of Georgian soldiers had able to wipe out an entire Russian military division due to this training.

"We killed 60 Russian soldiers just yesterday," said Yakobashvili. "The Russians have lost more than 50 tanks, and we have shot down 11 of their planes. They have enormous damage in terms of manpower,"

Yakobashvili warned that the Russians would try and open another battlefront in Abkhazia and he denied reports that the Georgian army was retreating. "The Georgian forces are not retreating. We move our military according to security needs."

"There was no attack on the airport in Tbilisi. It was a factory that produces combat airplanes," said Yakobashvili referring to the attacks in the country's capital.

"The whole world is starting to understand that what is happening here will determine the future of this region, the future price of crude oil, the future of central Asia, and the future of NATO," the Georgian minister added.

According to him, "every bomb that falls over our heads is an attack on democracy, on the European Union and on America."

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1010187.html

[December]

Georgian troops fire at refugees

VIDEO -- http://www.russiatoday.com/news/news/28838/video

Authorities in South Ossetia say Georgian troops have shelled the road being used for evacuating people from the conflict zone, according to Russian Interfax news agency. Attacks are continuing in the South Ossetian region, despite claims from Georgia that it was imposing a ceasefire.

There have been several explosions in the South Ossetian capital, Tskhinvali, after it came under a renewed shelling attack. Several Russian troops have been wounded.

It said that Russian forces have shot down a Georgian military plane in South Ossetia in the area around Eredvi.

Amidst the violence, Russian humanitarian aid has begun to arrive in the breakaway region's capital and the constant tide of people from the devastated areas of South Ossetia keeps flowing to Russia.

With a humanitarian corridor opened on Monday, thousands of evacuees have fled the conflict zone and sheltered in refugee camps in North Ossetia.

http://www.russiatoday.com/news/news/28838

[apdst]

Russia had credibilitybefore invading Georgia?

[December]

Russia had credibilitybefore invading Georgia?

Who is asking? America the Teenager?

[apdst]

Who is asking? America the Teenager?

You're kidding me, right? If The United States is the the teenager, then Russia is the senile adult, slobbering in her oatmeal and can't remember anyone's name. Russia ain't never got nothin' right. Not once.

[Trish]

I'm saying we set an international precedent, that other countries were bound to emulate for their own gain...as we did.

No... I'm not saying that because we invaded a soveriegn county, that it is ok for other countries to do the same thing. My pov is that other countries will now justify it based on what we did and WHY.



Do you not even see the contradiction in your argument?

You are asserting that Russia is wrong, while at the same time encouraging and supporting the US invasion of not just one, but three soveriegn countries.

What world do you live in where such nonsense remotely resembles anything anywhere approaching reality?

International precedent my ass. Pick up a freaking history book. Even one of those much lamented high school text books would do in this case. Take a look at who has invaded whom, where, and why in "modern" times. Actually read the damn text instead of buying into the America caused every freaking wrong in the world bullshit.

IF Russia had invaded Georgia after a war, better than a decade of failed diplomatic efforts by the UN, and a failure of Georgia to live up to its end of the ceasefire from the first war, THEN you could compare the two events point for point. There are certainly more differences that could be listed, but those should do for starters!

And as to this little gem

Didn't we say we were invading Iraq to protect US citizens? Isn't that what the Bush Doctrine, preemptive war was all about? Didn't we claim Saddam was guilty of genocide too as a cause for invasion?

Changes horses mid-stream? I seem to recall you being among those that claimed the ONLY reason we went to Iraq was the "lie" about WMD? There were many reasons listed for going to war in Iraq - among them our national security. But we didn't CLAIM Saddam was guilty of genocide - he WAS guilty of genocide. Or do all those mass Iraqi graves uncovered all over Iraq not count since no one can claim the US killed them?

[PostmodernProphet]

Authorities in South Ossetia say Georgian troops have shelled the road being used for evacuating people from the conflict zone,

December....would that perhaps be a picture of that road in your signature.....the one with people fleeing in one direction and tanks rolling on on the other direction?.....

[Truth_and_Power]

I'm saying we set an international precedent, that other countries were bound to emulate for their own gain...as we did.

No... I'm not saying that because we invaded a soveriegn county, that it is ok for other countries to do the same thing. My pov is that other countries will now justify it based on what we did and WHY.



Do you not even see the contradiction in your argument?

You are asserting that Russia is wrong, while at the same time encouraging and supporting the US invasion of not just one, but three soveriegn countries.

Russia has been non-stop in its criticism of U.S. actions in the middle east, and now they make a very similar move. Many on this board have taken russian statements at face value for several years, I want to make sure everyone sees that russia is playing the same geo-political power game that the U.S. is, without regard to any kind of mores. Any self-righteous statements by them concerning the actions of other countries are just posturing designed to sway public opinion.

I am not justifying the u.s. actions in iraq by this statement, I am just saying that there is no russian moral high ground. There is only power, winners, and losers. I believe that russia's goal is to expand their empire once again by first annexing these "breakaway regions", then putting a russian friendly president in charge of georgia, and then annexing georgia.

[Truth_and_Power]

Now we know WHO trained the Georgians:


Yep, and we know who was helping the "separatists" also.

[Truth_and_Power]

December....would that perhaps be a picture of that road in your signature.....the one with people fleeing in one direction and tanks rolling on on the other direction?.....

Yes, but due to mindreading capabilities the russians know that the shelling was aimed at the civilians, not the tanks.