Animal, Vegetable, Miracle by Barbara Kinsgolver

[AnnEsthesia]

This is a book my mother is reading. It is about eating nothing that was not grown, created and produced within 50 miles of your house. My husband and I were talking about that idea and how, in this world, it would be near to impossible to do. I mean, even if you go to the bakery down the street, chances are every ingredient would be from far away. You would literally have to go to a farmer (if you could find one) and buy your grains to make your own flour and cook your own bread... and that is just the beginning.

So, do you think it is possible to do this and still work, have a life, etc etc?

[Alonzo]

It depends on the area. If you could grow food year round then yes.

[AnnEsthesia]

That would negate a large portion of the country... and the places where you could grow some food, you could not grow others.

[Alonzo]

That would negate a large portion of the country... and the places where you could grow some food, you could not grow others.

Well I think to do it well you would need to be able to grow food year round. I guess you could go the whole canning route through the winter, but I think that would be unhealthy.

[AnnEsthesia]

Indeed. You could freeze certain things and still retain decent quality. However, I think the biggest thing would be that you would not be able to shop at ant grocery stores.

[AlanC]

This is a book my mother is reading. It is about eating nothing that was not grown, created and produced within 50 miles of your house. My husband and I were talking about that idea and how, in this world, it would be near to impossible to do. I mean, even if you go to the bakery down the street, chances are every ingredient would be from far away. You would literally have to go to a farmer (if you could find one) and buy your grains to make your own flour and cook your own bread... and that is just the beginning.

So, do you think it is possible to do this and still work, have a life, etc etc?

Well if you accept that people in the midwest would have to give up all fruit, sea food, coconuts, coffee, sugar, and a host of other foods, it might be possible for about 5 seconds until the revolt.

People in Rome would not have lived by this rule. It's elitist and just a bit idiotic.

[Leslie]

I like the idea that a lot of larger Farmers' Markets require vendors to disclose the locale of their produce. We have roadside vendors in my part of Texas who sell oranges/grapefruits from the local Sam's or Costcos which may be from Mexico rather than south Texas.

[AnnEsthesia]

Well if you accept that people in the midwest would have to give up all fruit, sea food, coconuts, coffee, sugar, and a host of other foods, it might be possible for about 5 seconds until the revolt.

People in Rome would not have lived by this rule. It's elitist and just a bit idiotic.

Well, that was the point. How could anyone save a few in a few areas of the world, have a healthy diet without eating things that were grown or produced away from that small area?

[Buck Laser]

That would negate a large portion of the country... and the places where you could grow some food, you could not grow others.
But we could do what our ancestors did--can, pickle and preserve foods for the winter. I didn't grow up with much of that because I lived in an area where most veggies and fruits were available on a year-round basis.

We have a pretty strong "eat local" movement here in Austin, even some restaurants that make a point of serving as much of their food from locally grown sources as possible. There are also farmer's markets all around, and a few grocery stores focus on locally grown products.

What makes the movement difficult is that so many of us have grown used to enjoying fruits and veggies year around that we're willing to buy and eat styrofoam tomatoes. But buying local can help on energy costs since food isn't coming from halfway around the world. Of course, energy costs are up for locals, too. But they can probably realize more net income if they can sell locally.

I think lots of conservatives hate "buy local" movements because they see them as "anti-capitalist"--meaning that they miss an opportunity to make money by your buying styrofoam tomatoes. All this makes me think about maybe putting together a little essay on living and buying local.

[AnnEsthesia]

Yea, I don't buy styrofoam tomatoes. I try to buy local when I can and I try to buy as natural (ie, less processed) foods as I can. But I cannot imagine not being able to say "Screw it! Let's get take out!" Or being able to run to the store at 10pm for bread. And don't get me started about no tea or coffee!

[AlanC]

Well despite the attempts to make this another left/right issue, buying local is a great thing and a lot of people do that.

Buying local exclusively and refusing to buy anything that is not produced within 50 miles is idiotic and impossible if one is to maintain a healthy diet.

The 50 mile rule would wipe out 2/3 of most people's diets.

[AnnEsthesia]

Exactly, Alan. It is an interesting idea, but how it could realistically work is beyond me.

[Buck Laser]

Well despite the attempts to make this another left/right issue, buying local is a great thing and a lot of people do that.

Buying local exclusively and refusing to buy anything that is not produced within 50 miles is idiotic and impossible if one is to maintain a healthy diet.

The 50 mile rule would wipe out 2/3 of most people's diets.
Alan, I think you've demonstrated in your second and third sentences exactly why conservatives balk at these kinds of ideas. Yes, buying totally locally is impossible in many instances, particularly in large metropolitan areas where agricultural land has all but disappeared. When I left IL in 2004, I think the Chicago Tribune had just recently run an article on the last working farm in Cook County.

But it's neither idiotic nor impossible to work toward that goal. In the last couple of years, I've come across several newspaper articles about people in inner cities turning vacant lots into high-intensity truck farms. Smaller towns, and some cities have serious farmer's markets where it's possible to get fresh produce.

The reason I think it is a liberal/conservative issue is that I keep hearing conservatives say that the ideal capitalist is the one who sells thing cheapest, thus maximizing profits. Then they use that to justify buying ALL their stuff at Wal-Mart or whatever big box store happens to be handy. For years, especially since I was in small business myself, I've made a practice of buying at locally owned stores even if I have to pay a bit more. That way, I have someone who will actually CARE if something's not right.

It's getting harder and harder to buy locally, though: Home Depots, Best Buy, Wal-Mart, Barnes & Noble etc., have practically driven the small retailers out, just as Archer-Daniel-Midland is the supplier of a hell of a lot of the produce that you find in your local market. The important point, however, is that if you care enough, it can be done. Not perfectly, to be sure, but it can be done.

Your republican neighbors are gonna think you're nuts because you pay twice as much for tomatoes as they do at Wal-Mart, but you'll know they're better and it's worth the trouble. It's my personal observation that republicans are mostly the people who've bought into the idea that the way things are now is the way things ought to be--and that they're personally threatened by making a conscious change for fear that they'll "get behind."

No worthwhile change ever occurs without difficulty, false starts, disappointments and more than a few failed dreams. As I said, I talk a better game on this one than I actually do, but I'm at least trying. When you say that eating locally is impossible even if it's a good idea, I can't help but think of Cheney dismissing energy conservation as a nice personal virtue but irrelevant to our energy needs. Is that the kind of philosophy you really subscribe to?

PS: Look for a PM on another topic in a few minutes.