A message direct from Georgia via Skype

[jafar00]

Here is the transcript of a short conversation I had with a friend from Georgia via Skype. I thought it might interest some of you who are following the situation there.

[17:41:05] FXGeorgia.com: Hello jafaar
[17:41:10] … How are you?
[17:41:25] Jafar Calley: hi Gio
[17:41:41] … I heard Tiblisi is getting bombed?
[17:41:44] FXGeorgia.com: Yes
[17:41:45] Jafar Calley: is everything ok?
[17:41:50] … must be scary
[17:42:16] FXGeorgia.com: Yes very scary, but i left tbilisi for safe place, i am in my village but don't know what to do next
[17:42:18] … where to go
[17:42:28] … I am thinking of going abroad
[17:42:39] … RUssian troops may soon head to Tbilisi
[17:42:51] Jafar Calley: You are welcome to stay in my house in Cairo for as long as you need
[17:43:26] FXGeorgia.com: They are already planning to bomb zugdidi which isn't even near conflict region. Thank you another time jafaar i'll see how situation will develope, which country do you recommend me?
[17:44:12] Jafar Calley: Anywhere but Georgia and Russia at the moment
[17:45:23] … where do you think you might go?
[17:45:24] FXGeorgia.com: Just logged in to tell you that i am ok and update you on the subject, what are people which you are talking to thinking about this conflict? Is anyone aware?
[17:45:30] … Don't know
[17:45:40] … Was thinking about USA
[17:45:44] … But don't know
[17:45:44] Jafar Calley: Well I post on a politics forum
[17:45:50] … mixed opinion
[17:45:55] FXGeorgia.com: hehe
[17:46:09] … they might not be fully aware of what's going on in the region
[17:46:14] Jafar Calley: Some are on the side of your dumb ass president
[17:46:21] … others on the side of russia
[17:46:28] … who are also being stupid
[17:46:33] FXGeorgia.com: Yeah
[17:46:46] Jafar Calley: what do Georgians think of their president now?
[17:46:49] FXGeorgia.com: I agree with you opinion about my president
[17:46:56] … your*
[17:47:22] Jafar Calley: History shows that bombing separatists tends to work out badly for all concerned
[17:47:40] … I guess he never took history at college
[17:48:42] FXGeorgia.com: Let explain you the story was developing: Russian troops entered region of Djava and because of this our troops entered the region, but the problem is that even if we would give up this territories russia has plans for out territory. I hope i am wrong and the troops will not spread accross the conflict region border but i suspect that i am right
[17:48:50] … let me* :P
[17:49:22] Jafar Calley: I see, so Russia kind of started it
[17:49:30] FXGeorgia.com: exactly
[17:49:53] … But i might be wrong because i want it or not i am subjective.
[17:50:33] Jafar Calley: The way I heard it was that Georgian forces attacked the separatists and because they are allied with Russia, Russia joined the fight
[17:51:53] FXGeorgia.com: Russian troops were entering the region even before our forces started bombing, that's actually the reason why our forces entered the region.He went offline all of a sudden after that. I hope he's ok. I'll post more if I get contact with him again soon.

[NIOSA]

I hope your friend is ok. Scary situation.

[AnnEsthesia]

Good wishes and luck to him.

[BoogyMan]

Wow Jafar, my best wishes go out to your friend in Georgia.

[Alonzo]

Wow. Your friend is probably alright though. On NPR they were saying that, when russians attacks an area, the first thing they've been doing is taking out cell phone towers and other communication things. Most Georgian websites are also down.

[IndieVisible]

Damn Russians. I hope they run out of Vodka. Last time that happened the Soviet Union collapsed. Sure they blame it on other things, but it was the vodka. yes I hope your friend is ok too. I seen some pretty nasty photo's coming out.

[apdst]

Looks more like an invasion than a peace keeping mission.

[preservanation]

Russia is scaring me very much bad right now.
Iran, Venezuela, Cuba, now this...

[william the wierd]

Russia is also scaring the Gulf, $30/bbl oil soon to hurt Russia from behind the American shield.

[hungarianflower]

I heard that Georgia is offering a cease-fire but Russia isn't accepting it.

All evidence is against Russia, why isn't the US or the UN doing something about this?

I hope your friend is OK.

[preservanation]

http://d.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/nm/20080810/2008_08_09t060821_339x450_us_georgia_ossetia.jpg?

[webwarrior]

Hope you freind is well, I'll keep him in my prayers...
keep the faith

[lily]

Thanks for sharing that jafar.......I hope everything is allright. Keep us updated.

[ThatGuy]

I heard that Georgia is offering a cease-fire but Russia isn't accepting it.

All evidence is against Russia, why isn't the US or the UN doing something about this?

I hope your friend is OK.

U.N as in the U.N that held Hussien accountable? Or the the U.N that is holding Iran accountable right now? Or the U.N that is keeping genocide from happening in Dafur.:nana:
Terrible situation there. But....Maybe the world should step back and let the Georgians and Rusisians hash it out.

[Rage]

I heard that Georgia is offering a cease-fire but Russia isn't accepting it.

All evidence is against Russia, why isn't the US or the UN doing something about this?

I hope your friend is OK.

Very true.

I hope your friend is ok jafar, and may Russian blood flow like floodwater before they take your friends country.

[bobbylien]

I really hope that the EU holds Russia accountable for their actions here.

[jafar00]

Update: He called me this morning. Everything is ok, but Russian troops are buzzing about Tiblisi. They expect the tanks to roll in any second. Georgian troops are no match for the Russians despite Israeli help.

[preservanation]

I hope the Russians back off soon, just to keep innocent people safe.
Show of force is one thing but decimating a population is wholly an other.
Some folks are raising the specter of "ethnic cleansing"...again.

[Invayne]

Update: He called me this morning. Everything is ok, but Russian troops are buzzing about Tiblisi. They expect the tanks to roll in any second. Georgian troops are no match for the Russians despite Israeli help.

I hope your friend gets out of there safely.:sadly:

[hungarianflower]

Fucking Russians.

[preservanation]

this is nothing more than an act of aggression by the soviets.
Words will not deter them...they will do what they will do.
Force is all they understand.
Fucking Russians.

[ScareCrow]

this is nothing more than an act of aggression by the soviets.
Words will not deter them...they will do what they will do.
Force is all they understand.
Fucking Russians.

I would like to ask you who you think fired the first shots in this conflict? Who do you believe to be the real aggressor? Saakashvili thought he could just do what he wanted because of backing from the US. Russia may have pushed back a little hard but America has been guilty of doing far more over far less.

[preservanation]

BS.
This is maddening.
If you are refering to Iraq, (which I bet you are) and comparing removing a murderous dictator who did not have a sovereign nation who flouted 15 conditional UN resolutions, violated cease fires and tortured and oppressed hi own population as well as funded terrorist suicide bomber's families, to what Russia did to Georgia...forget about it.
If this is where you are going, all you are is an America blamer and hater.
Facts mean nothing to those people.

[ScareCrow]

BS.
This is maddening.
If you are refering to Iraq, (which I bet you are) and removing a murderous dictator who did not have a sovereign nation who flouted 15 conditional UN resolutions, violated cease fires and tortured and oppressed hi own population as well as funded terrorist suicide bomber's families, to what Russia did to Georgia...forget about it.
If this is where you are going, all you are is an America blamer and hater.
Facts mean nothing to those people.

It seems to me that you are the one ignoring the facts and making assumptions. Do you think Iraq is the first regime change imposed by the US? Learn some history, maybe research how Hawaii became a state or how the current government came to be in Iran, I could mention several others if you like. You can call me an America blamer and hater all you like, doesn't change the facts. It's probably easier for someone with a weak mind to accept propaganda for fact though.

The fact is Mikhail Saakashvili organized and ordered an attack on South Ossetia thinking that he would face no consequences because of his backing from the US. To put this in perspective, what do you think America would do if any country were to attack a country where we have troops stationed and which we are allied with? Say North Korea were to attack South Korea or some country attacked Japan. Do you believe America would sit idly by or attack back? Like I already said, Russia may have pushed too far but the fact is they were not the original aggressors.

[PostmodernProphet]

I would like to ask you who you think fired the first shots in this conflict? Who do you believe to be the real aggressor? Saakashvili thought he could just do what he wanted because of backing from the US. Russia may have pushed back a little hard but America has been guilty of doing far more over far less.

hard to say so far......as many indications it was the Russians as the Georgians......one thing though is perfectly clear.....the Russians have carried it far further than they needed to, and that makes them the aggressors.....

and in America's case they went to the UN for years before they took action.....

[jafar00]

Fucking Russians.

this is nothing more than an act of aggression by the soviets.
Words will not deter them...they will do what they will do.
Force is all they understand.
Fucking Russians.

Even the displaced Georgians blame their own government, not the Russians. Georgians hate their moron puppet president.

BS.
This is maddening.
If you are refering to Iraq, (which I bet you are) and comparing removing a murderous dictator who did not have a sovereign nation who flouted 15 conditional UN resolutions, violated cease fires and tortured and oppressed hi own population as well as funded terrorist suicide bomber's families, to what Russia did to Georgia...forget about it.
If this is where you are going, all you are is an America blamer and hater.
Facts mean nothing to those people.

The US lost the moral high ground years ago. You have no right to criticise anyone.

[PostmodernProphet]

Even the displaced Georgians blame their own government, not the Russians. Georgians hate their moron puppet president.



The US lost the moral high ground years ago. You have no right to criticise anyone.

sure I do, I have the right to criticize idiots where ever I find them......thats one of the things that makes the US great.....

[preservanation]

The US lost the moral high ground years ago. You have no right to criticise anyone.Yeah, the violent despots of the world would love that.

We have the right to criticize anything and everything we want.
In a lot of nations that is not allowed
This is the point.
To insinuate that the beacon of freedom in the world just shut up and go away will only serve the ideology and practice of oppression.

When people fall prey to the anti-American propaganda of the left they are unable to understand what America really is...
America is an ideal as much as a country.

You do a great disservice to that ideal as well as to yourself when you insinuate that people just shut up, and expect them to just do it.
Guess what???
You can't make me.
Some fear that people want to come over here and force us to comply with their oppression, and given some observations it seems that there are those who would love to do just that.

The fact that you would want us to shut up, and expect us to comply shows the depth of your misunderstanding of America.

[preservanation]

sure I do, I have the right to criticize idiots where ever I find them......that's one of the things that makes the US great.....Some people live is conditions where it's either shut up or die...
This is the future they seem to envision for America.
Insulting
This is very telling of their intent.

[Elrathin]

the Russians have carried it far further than they needed to, and that makes them the aggressors.....

Yep, just like in many cases Israel took it further than they needed to with Pakistan and the Gaza Strip. Oh wait you and many other conservatives supported that though.

[Pookie]

I think both the Georgians and the Russians are to blame in this.
I hope your friend will be okay and get out of there safely, Jafar.
Purrs,
Pookie

[preservanation]

Even the displaced Georgians blame their own government, not the Russians. Georgians hate their moron puppet president.So....You give Putin along with the full force of the Russian military the right to dispose him and subjugate the Georgian population?
I thought this was about Ossetia.
Guess not.

[DamnYankee]

Soviet Red Army invading Georgia was a planned event. Prepared several weeks ago, perhaps months. It takes a lot of planning and preparations to send that many troops/tanks/material in. It just didn't happen all of a sudden.

Sumb*tchin rooskies, can't trust a single one of the heathen red horde.

[jafar00]

Soviet Red Army invading Georgia was a planned event. Prepared several weeks ago, perhaps months. It takes a lot of planning and preparations to send that many troops/tanks/material in. It just didn't happen all of a sudden.

Sumb*tchin rooskies, can't trust a single one of the heathen red horde.

I said the same about the most recent Israeli attack on Lebanon, but nobody believed me?
Tensions had been rising between Georgia and Russia for a few years. Russian peacekeepers were among the thousands slaughtered by Georgian troops when they moved into South Ossetia. It's no surprise that they were ready for it.

[DamnYankee]

No worries though -

Obama to the rescue! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dl32Y7wDVDs)

No surprises here. Gutting the military is leftist mantra.

[apdst]

It's disheartening to hear people argue that it's all about fair play. Iraq will turn out to be a much happier place place with American intervention, than Georgia will with Russian intervention.

[DamnYankee]

It's disheartening to hear people argue that it's all about fair play. Iraq will turn out to be a much happier place place with American intervention, than Georgia will with Russian intervention.

Most definitely. The Soviets are slimey. I feel for the Georgians.

[Defensor]

My prayers are with your friend.

BS.
This is maddening.
If you are refering to Iraq, (which I bet you are) and comparing removing a murderous dictator who did not have a sovereign nation who flouted 15 conditional UN resolutions, violated cease fires and tortured and oppressed hi own population as well as funded terrorist suicide bomber's families, to what Russia did to Georgia...forget about it.
If this is where you are going, all you are is an America blamer and hater.
Facts mean nothing to those people.

Of course, there are big differences. For one thing, the corrupt dictator Saakashvili actually attacked Ossetia to provoke war with the Russians. Saddam Hussein never attacked or even posed a threat to the United States.

Russia has centuries-old ties with its next-door neighbor that justify its reasons for being involved. The United States had zero claim whatsoever to justify dictating the policies of a country they didn't even understand halfway around the world.

[PostmodernProphet]

Of course, there are big differences. For one thing, the corrupt dictator Saakashvili actually attacked Ossetia to provoke war with the Russians. Saddam Hussein never attacked or even posed a threat to the United States.

true enough....he attacked Kuwait instead....

[Defensor]

true enough....he attacked Kuwait instead....

With U.S. support of course.

But that's besides the point. The U.S. had no right to intervene in the affairs of Middle Eastern nations to whom it had no connection.

But apparently you believe that the U.S. invasion of Iraq in 2003 had something to do with the U.S.-supported Iraq-Kuwait war thirteen years earlier. And that Iraq had WMDs. :madlaugh:

[PostmodernProphet]

With U.S. support of course.

But that's besides the point. The U.S. had no right to intervene in the affairs of Middle Eastern nations to whom it had no connection.

But apparently you believe that the U.S. invasion of Iraq in 2003 had something to do with the U.S.-supported Iraq-Kuwait war thirteen years earlier. And that Iraq had WMDs. :madlaugh:
uh, yes....I do think the war that began in 2003 had something to with Iraq's invasion of Kuwait....and I didn't think there was anyone around who actually thought the US supported the invasion of Iraq...takes all sorts I guess, ranging from the fucking idiots to the merely dumb......

[Defensor]

uh, yes....I do think the war that began in 2003 had something to with Iraq's invasion of Kuwait....
Bush Jr. didn't seem to mention that in his tirades against Iraq's nonexistent "weapons of mass destruction."

and I didn't think there was anyone around who actually thought the US supported the invasion of Iraq...takes all sorts I guess, ranging from the fucking idiots to the merely dumb......
Of course the U.S. overwhelmingly opposed the Iraq war. It's the government's war.

[apdst]

For one thing, the corrupt dictator Saakashvili actually attacked Ossetia to provoke war with the Russians.

Ossetia isn't a sovereign nation. Legally speaking, it's still a part of Georgia. The Goergian government had every right to put down the inssurection that was occuring in Ossetia.

We've all seen how the Russians handle seperatist factions. Haven't we?

[December]

I hope your friend is ok. Scary situation.

Russian Army.
Everyone must watch to be afraid:

http://pl.youtube.com/watch?v=V0k1zvHX88A

http://pl.youtube.com/watch?v=oOaGgY2yUHw

[Defensor]

Ossetia isn't a sovereign nation. Legally speaking, it's still a part of Georgia. The Goergian government had every right to put down the inssurection that was occuring in Ossetia.

We've all seen how the Russians handle seperatist factions. Haven't we?
There was no insurrection. Saakashvili ordered a sneak attack on civilian areas at the same time he was paying lip service to diplomatic negotiations. No excuses.

[PostmodernProphet]

Bush Jr. didn't seem to mention that in his tirades against Iraq's nonexistent "weapons of mass destruction."


Of course the U.S. overwhelmingly opposed the Iraq war. It's the government's war.

ah my mistake....I was referring to Saddam's invasion of Kuwait.....after all, it was that which you said was supported by the US.....

[apdst]

There was no insurrection. Saakashvili ordered a sneak attack on civilian areas at the same time he was paying lip service to diplomatic negotiations. No excuses.

Is there a provision in the Georgian constitution that allows the arbitrary seccession of a provinces? If not, then Ossetia's seccession from Georgia is illegal and warrants military action by the central government.

[Invayne]

No worries though -

Obama to the rescue! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dl32Y7wDVDs)

Pffft! What an idiot.:fight:

[Defensor]

Is there a provision in the Georgian constitution that allows the arbitrary seccession of a provinces? If not, then Ossetia's seccession from Georgia is illegal and warrants military action by the central government.
If you want to talk about the U.S.'s hypocritical support for "self-determination" when its convenient, feel free, but actually that doesn't even merit being discussed here. There was no immediate threat of secession to warrant the Georgian attack. The Saakashvili regime was involved in negotiations over the issue right up until he authorized the sneak attack.

[apdst]

Defensor,

You can defend the bad guys all you want, but Georgia's use of military force to prevent an Ossetian seccession was perfectly within the rights of the central government, UNLESS, of course, you can provide me with provisions within Georgian law that states otherwise.

[Defensor]

Defensor,

You can defend the bad guys all you want,
I never defended Saakashvili or Bush.

but Georgia's use of military force to prevent an Ossetian seccession was perfectly within the rights of the central government, UNLESS, of course, you can provide me with provisions within Georgian law that states otherwise.
This point has been addressed already. I take it you're out of arguments?

[jafar00]

Is there a provision in the Georgian constitution that allows the arbitrary seccession of a provinces? If not, then Ossetia's seccession from Georgia is illegal and warrants military action by the central government.

Military action doesn't include crushing people in tanks and burning them to death in their houses and churches. The Russians were right to counter Georgian aggression in this case.

[apdst]

Military action doesn't include crushing people in tanks and burning them to death in their houses and churches.

I've yet to see any real evidence of that, but that's no surprise.