It's an amazing country where an Arizona millionaire...

[Buck Laser]

(snip)

And it's an amazing country where an Arizona multimillionaire can attack a Chicago South Sider as an elitist and hope to make it stick. The Chicagoan was brought up by a single mom who had big ambitions for him, and he got scholarshipped into Harvard Law and was made president of the law review, all of it on his own hook, whereas the Arizonan is the son of an admiral and was ushered into Annapolis though an indifferent student, much like the Current Occupant, both of them men who are very lucky that their fathers were born before they were. The Chicagoan, who grew up without a father, wrote a book on his own, using a computer. The Arizonan hired people to write his for him. But because the Chicagoan can say what he thinks and make sense and the Arizonan cannot do that for more than 30 seconds at a time, the old guy is hoping to portray the skinny guy as arrogant.

Good luck with that, sir.

Meanwhile, the casual revelation last month that Mr. McCain has never figured out how to use a computer and has never sent e-mail or Googled is rather startling. It's like admitting that you've never clipped your own toenails or that you didn't know that toothpaste comes out of a tube because your valet always did that for you. It's like being amazed at the sight of a supermarket scanner. What world does Mr. McCain live in? Where does he keep his sense of curiosity? My 94-year-old mother has sent e-mail. Does somebody plan to show him how it's done and will they explain to him what "LOL" means?


more at:
http://www.salon.com/opinion/keillor/2008/08/06/mccain/

[potter]

Does somebody plan to show him how it's done and will they explain to him what "LOL" means?

I would hope someone would teach him what STFU means instead..... :thumbsup::peace:

[ilikegw]

I guess the gist of that post is: don't vote for the rich guy who can't use a computer (suddenly a prerequisite for the Presidency) from a privileged family, vote for the child abandoned by his father who had a hard time growing up.

[potter]

I guess the gist of that post is: don't vote for the rich guy who can't use a computer (suddenly a prerequisite for the Presidency) from a privileged family, vote for the child abandoned by his father who had a hard time growing up.


Well it does seem that one would have more character....hauling oneself up on ones own would do that.

[GhostintheMachine]

Well it does seem that one would have more character....hauling oneself up on ones own would do that.

Oh but he's elitist though right?

[Milton Bradley]

Oh but he's elitist though right?


Who cares about these side issues?


The man is a Liberal, and a Democrat. Isn't that enough to sully ones character?

[Buck Laser]

I guess the gist of that post is: don't vote for the rich guy who can't use a computer (suddenly a prerequisite for the Presidency) from a privileged family, vote for the child abandoned by his father who had a hard time growing up.
I'd say it's more a question of who really had the privileged upbringing. Obama has reached his station in life by dint of his own hard work. McCain is certainly a man of high achievement, but he did have a considerable leg up, being the son and grandson of Chiefs of Naval Operations.

[Milton Bradley]

I'd say it's more a question of who really had the privileged upbringing. Obama has reached his station in life by dint of his own hard work. McCain is certainly a man of high achievement, but he did have a considerable leg up, being the son and grandson of Chiefs of Naval Operations.


I suppose it's important to know how one arrives at the top of a pile of crap the size of either party, or the Senate.


I guess this better helps some people to undersdtand how each one will misrepresent his constituency respectively.


:ponder:

[ilikegw]

If Obama's only claim to fame is that he's a black man who did things on his own then something is wrong with this country. THAT is racism and it's sad that people who decry racism don't see it that way. What's so hard to believe about a black man doing well?

If you think it's a big deal what are you saying about society? That black men can't progress in life? When they do it's something out of the ordinary? If Obama being a well established black man is a phenomenon then you're sending the wrong message.

[GhostintheMachine]

Who cares about these side issues?


The man is a Liberal, and a Democrat. Isn't that enough to sully ones character?

Yes, because all liberals are characterless. I forgot that despising war and advocated human rights would sully one's character.

[ilikegw]

The Chicagoan was brought up by a single mom

The Chicagoan, who grew up without a father


(AP) Sen. Barack Obama became a successful politician in Illinois. But the roots of that success are in this city thousands of miles and a cultural light-year away.

Born and raised in Honolulu, Obama honed his ability to appeal to a diverse group of people in the islands, a crossroad of cultures from throughout the Pacific, said his half-sister, Maya Soetoro-Ng.


After the marriage failed, a 6-year-old Obama left Hawaii to spend four years in Indonesia with his mother and Indonesian stepfather, Lolo Soetoro. In 1971, Obama's mother sent him back to Honolulu to stay with his maternal grandparents.


In his 1995 memoir, "Dreams from My Father," Obama wrote about growing up with the island's unique food and culture: poi and roast pig, choice cuts of aku for sashimi and spearfishing off Kailua Bay. Living in his grandparents' downtown apartment, he attended the prestigious Punahou School and drove to parties at Army bases.



http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/...n3831108.shtml
His mother wasn't always single and Barack seems to have had a pretty nice life. He ain't no poor boy from the streets. The false notion is that he was raised by a single mom and based on his own book and his siter, that isn't true. For some reason the media wants us to believe that this guy grew up poor with no father figure when he in fact had 3: his own father, a stepfather and a grandfather.

[4Reaganomics]

If I recall correctly, Obama had a mother who received a phd and a father who was a prominent economist with the Kenyan gov't. He went to ivy league schools as well. He isn't the lost boy of Sudan that you portray him as. Regardless, this is a nonissue. Obama's anti-energy independence and taxation of 100 million Americans through capital gains during troubled times are issues really worth discussing

[ilikegw]

If I recall correctly, Obama had a mother who received a phd and a father who was a prominent economist with the Kenyan gov't. He went to ivy league schools as well. He isn't the lost boy of Sudan that you portray him as. Regardless, this is a nonissue. Obama's anti-energy independence and taxation of 100 million Americans through capital gains during troubled times are issues really worth discussing

THANK YOU!!

How can he sit idly by while people paint his life as if he were a poor boy with no shoes?

[4Reaganomics]

Pawlenty is not qualified to lead simply because his Father drove trucks, Carter certainly wasn't qualified to lead because he came from peanut farmers, Reagan wasn't qualified to lead because he once lived above a corner pharmacy

and Obama isn't qualified to lead simply because his Mother had multiple muslim husbands and shipped Barack off to this grandparents for some time where he spent time at top notch schools and his mother earned her doctorate

tough path on the way to Columbia and Harvard, but many have lived much tougher upbringings

none of them have the credentials to be Potus due to their upbringing


I hear the same thing from the left, issues...issues...issues...issues

and then we hear on this forum about Cindy McCain's makeup and breasts, McCain's upbringing not being as tough as Obama's, the McCain's income, John McCain not using the internet, etc.

way to pump up the issues on here leftists, where would we be without your substance

[Buck Laser]

none of them have the credentials to be Potus due to their upbringing

I think that's exactly the point. There's NOTHING that prepares one for the presidency. The only thing that matters is character itself--and there's not a way in the world to measure the necessary character of a potential president than to put him or her in office.

But from what I've seen and learned, Obama is the best bet we have, and a very, very good bet! But no one knows, do they?

[4Reaganomics]

I'd say character, experience, and positions on the issues are all very relevant to whether one will be capable to lead.

People will choose who they identify with on the issues and who they can relate to. For me that is not Obama, but for some people it will be.

[Osborn F. Enready]

Bucks article said:
And it's an amazing country where an Arizona multimillionaire can attack a Chicago South Sider as an elitist and hope to make it stick.

What does upbringing really have to do with this? What is elitism? Elitism is a frame of mind, belief, ideology or philosophy that you or a group is better than others or other groups.....

Upbringing plays a role in our frame of mind, but does not defacto define it.

Bucks article said:
The Chicagoan was brought up by a single mom who had big ambitions for him, and he got scholarshipped into Harvard Law and was made president of the law review, all of it on his own hook, whereas the Arizonan is the son of an admiral and was ushered into Annapolis though an indifferent student, much like the Current Occupant, both of them men who are very lucky that their fathers were born before they were. The Chicagoan, who grew up without a father, wrote a book on his own, using a computer.

Up to here, all that is being shown is a contrast in upbringing.... and on that point, I would like to ask a question Buck....

From your perspective, who would be more LIKELY to have an elitist tinge on their "perception" of what actually is reality here.... the person who was fairly gifted both economicly allowing more choices for education, experience and playing a leadership role or the person who is seemingly oppressed due to the poor situation they were born into?

I would say the more challenged, or "perceptionally oppressed" person has more inclination to assign "class warfare"' attitudes and a perception of elitism....since that is an easy out to why "some have more stuff than others".....

Bucks article said:
The Arizonan hired people to write his for him. But because the Chicagoan can say what he thinks and make sense and the Arizonan cannot do that for more than 30 seconds at a time, the old guy is hoping to portray the skinny guy as arrogant.

Subjective judgement call eminating from personal perspective.

Bucks article said:
Good luck with that, sir.

In todays emotionally charged, politically divided and morally challenged atmosphere I understand the luck factor with getting sheeple to understand the gravity of the situation.

Bucks article said:
Meanwhile, the casual revelation last month that Mr. McCain has never figured out how to use a computer and has never sent e-mail or Googled is rather startling. It's like admitting that you've never clipped your own toenails or that you didn't know that toothpaste comes out of a tube because your valet always did that for you. It's like being amazed at the sight of a supermarket scanner. What world does Mr. McCain live in?

This has just become a bi-partisan sniping contest in the eyes of the author it appears, as he only mentions two choices to vote for out of a possible x number (?)

Bucks article said:
Where does he keep his sense of curiosity? My 94-year-old mother has sent e-mail. Does somebody plan to show him how it's done and will they explain to him what "LOL" means?

Seems like a partisan sniping an obviously equally weak opponent to his own party, by muddying the issues with non-issues.

[Milton Bradley]

Yes, because all liberals are characterless. I forgot that despising war and advocated human rights would sully one's character.


I was aiming more at their fraudulent ideas on wealth redistribution, and that conflict Liberals have with that oath of office, but hey, rationalize away.

[hungarianflower]

I think that's exactly the point. There's NOTHING that prepares one for the presidency. The only thing that matters is character itself--and there's not a way in the world to measure the necessary character of a potential president than to put him or her in office.

But from what I've seen and learned, Obama is the best bet we have, and a very, very good bet! But no one knows, do they?

I agree with everything above.

I don't think comparing Barack's upbringing to McCain's upbringing is relevant because, well, McCain didn't exactly live the cushy life of a rich boy either.

He could have, of course, but instead he chose to go to Vietnam and was taken as a prisoner of war and tortured. He almost died from the wounds the Vietnamese inflicted on him for not telling them the information they wanted.

I don't think Barack Obama has ever been through anything like that.

The political exploitation of wounded American soldiers by Sen. McCain and his eagerness to introduce race into the race was yahoo behavior, but never mind -- if you lived through the Nixon years and then read the transcripts of the tapes, you are not surprised by anything in politics whatsoever

When has Senator McCain introduced race into the election?!?!?!

[AlanC]

I think that's exactly the point. There's NOTHING that prepares one for the presidency. The only thing that matters is character itself--and there's not a way in the world to measure the necessary character of a potential president than to put him or her in office.



I could not disagree with this statement more. There are leaders and there are followers. There are people who are managers and those who are not. There are people of good strong cahracter in all walks of life and there are those who are not.

These are all three different things. They are measurable by past performance and experience. The ideal of course is to find someone who possesses all three traits.

Buck suggests it is all a roll of the dice and the outcome is just chance. Elect the person and see if they work out. That is a sure presecription for continually finding the wrong person for any job, much less for POTUS.

Leadership is not the ability to appeal to people's emotions and make them feel good. Leadership is the ability to get people to go where they must go, not necessarily were they want to go. Leadership is the ability to inspire people in that direction they mind difficult. Obama has demonstrated charisma, but not leadership. Buck is right in that we don't know if he has it.

Management ability is the ability to organize, over see, run and guide a large organization of people all the while making the best use of resources available to the organization. Establishing organizational focus and making sure everyone sees the same goals and is accountable for working towards those goals. Management ability is the ability to realize what you cannot do yourself and guiding others in the accomplishment of those things. It is the ability form an organization and then hold it accountable for reaching its objectives.

Character is simply that trait that defines how you use your other traits. Setting goals is fine. Leading is fine. But character is the modifier of whether those are proper goals, whether you lead in the right direction, whether you can establish the trust you need to accomplish those things that need to be done, and whether you can be guided by principle or are influenced by whim and popularity.

A man or woman needs to be tested in these areas and they need to learn the lessons of how to do these things before they step into the big chair. Character is the only part of that to found ingrained in people. All the rest must be learned by experience.

If a person has nothing they can point to as having given them that experience, if they have no record of having learned the lessons and been in the crucible, they are not ready. You don't take a supply sergeant who is good at what he does and make him a general in command of large combat units. He has NO qualificatons. It might work, but the odds are it won't.

Barrack Obama and John McCain are not the best qualified men to lead this country. But of the two, and we are talking about only these two, McCain has proven his ability in ways Obama has yet to accomplish.

Would IBM ever pick a mid level executive who never had a staff larger than 5 and limited exposure to the rest of the company to be its CEO? Of course not. Only in a movie would this make any sense and work out. Its a feel good move when rational choices should be the guiding principles. The statement that nothing prepares someone for this job of president is patently false and is used here only because the candidate is so lacking in any qualifications for the job that it has to be dismissed. Any rational discussion of the issue of experience would disqualify their guy.

You will notice that I do not include as experience as just time in Washington. Knowledge of the Washington process is important, but not the major qualifiers like the ones mentioned above.

[ilikegw]

I agree with everything above.

I don't think comparing Barack's upbringing to McCain's upbringing is relevant because, well, McCain didn't exactly live the cushy life of a rich boy either.

He could have, of course, but instead he chose to go to Vietnam and was taken as a prisoner of war and tortured. He almost died from the wounds the Vietnamese inflicted on him for not telling them the information they wanted.

I don't think Barack Obama has ever been through anything like that.



When has Senator McCain introduced race into the election?!?!?!

Thank you Mia!!! If anyone has more character between the two it's the man who was tortured, battered and bloodied while fighting for his country. He was a privileged youth, he could have gone anywhere, done anything with his life, yet he wound up a POW in Vietnam???? He was compared to Bush in that their fathers got them into the service, therein lies the only similarity because one of them went to war and was almost killed for being an American soldier. Such a cushy life yet McCain's father couldn't keep him out of combat?

When did the life of a man who was tied up for days, his teeth violently pulled from his mouth become a more cushy life than a kid from Chicago/Hawaii/Indonesia who was shuffled around by a mother who married and divorced twice, was raised by several adults, went to HARVARD and wrote a book????? There is no logic there.

[brien]

One doesn't have to be born into a life of privilege to be an elitist. It is a political philosophy sometimes trumpeted by some Democrats and Republicans. They only have to pretend to know what is better for everyone than those people know for themselves.

For example, the Department of Education. We, the people, can't possibly know best how to educate our children because the average parent doesn't have a degree in Education. Only the elites in the Dept of Education know best because it is they who have the credentials. Well, that philosophy is shot in the ass when people who home school their children and those kids go on to higher education and do better than many government schooled children.

Elites are useless assholes because they have no respect for anyone but themselves and their own condescending attitudes toward the average American.