So Much for St. John

[lily]

Go for it John.......Hillary lost the primary for doing it......so good luck! (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/07/31/AR2008073102820.html?nav=hcmodule)

So Much for St. John


By Eugene Robinson
Friday, August 1, 2008; Page A17

It's awfully early for John McCain to be running such a desperate, ugly
campaign against Barack Obama. But I guess it's useful for Democrats to get
a reminder that the Republican Party plays presidential politics by the same
moral code that guided the bad-boy Oakland Raiders in their heyday: "Just
win, baby."


On Wednesday, at a campaign stop in Missouri, Obama had predicted that
Republicans would try to "make you scared of me. You know, 'He's not
patriotic enough, he's got a funny name,' you know, 'he doesn't look like
all those other presidents on the dollar bills.' " So what does Davis do? He
promptly tries to make voters scared of Obama by feigning outrage over the
presumptive Democratic nominee's "divisive, negative, shameful and wrong"
remarks.


Of course the McCain campaign isn't really offended that the first black
major-party candidate for president in American history might mention this
distinction from time to time. The idea is to slow Obama down before he runs
away with this thing, and the weapon of choice is handfuls of mud.

Remember St. John the Reformer, who promised a high-minded campaign and said
he wouldn't question his opponent's patriotism? Clearly, he's been replaced
by an evil twin. The switch seems to have taken place during his opponent's
world tour, when Obama's prescriptions for Iraq and Afghanistan began to
look prescient -- and McCain's began to look irrelevant.

McCain kept saying that Obama "doesn't understand" the war zones -- even
though the president of Afghanistan, the prime minister of Iraq and even
U.S. military officials on the ground seemed to think Obama understood both
situations quite well. McCain then resorted to the outrageous charge that
Obama "would rather lose a war in order to win a political campaign." I
think that qualifies as an allegation that Obama is "not patriotic enough,"
don't you?

Since then the McCain campaign has sharply escalated its rhetorical
attacks -- making blatantly false claims, for example, about a canceled
visit with injured troops in Germany. The blitz has been successful in one
of its aims, which is to drive the news cycle and thus focus attention on
McCain. Much less clear is whether voters really want to elect Don Rickles
as president.

The low point so far is McCain's bizarre ad that flashes images of Paris
Hilton and Britney Spears before showing Obama in Berlin addressing the
multitudes. In what promises to be a major attack theme, the ad derides
Obama as "the biggest celebrity in the world" -- an attempt to turn Obama's
popularity into some kind of fatal flaw.

In a conference call with reporters on Wednesday, Davis and campaign senior
adviser Steve Schmidt -- a veteran of George W. Bush's 2004 campaign -- kept
returning to the word "celebrity" in describing Obama. It's a classic
attempt to take a positive and turn it into a negative, as was done with
John Kerry's heroic service in Vietnam by the odious Swift boat campaign.

The McCain campaign's excursion into popular culture has been so aggressive
that the Obama campaign felt obliged to promptly denounce a new song by
Ludacris that criticizes both McCain and Hillary Clinton in crude terms.
Never mind that the rapper has no association with Obama's candidacy, and
never mind that McCain is probably not intimately familiar with the Ludacris
oeuvre. All this gnashing and flailing would be laughable if it weren't so
purposeful. The aim is to cast an aura of doubt around Obama -- to portray
him as handsome and popular but insubstantial, as a "celebrity" who's not
really up to the job. Oh, and not that we would ever mention such a thing,
but did you notice that Obama had the audacity to mention that he's African
American?

The Obama campaign has been quick to respond with new television ads
accusing McCain of practicing the "old politics." Kerry's unhappy experience
showed that this kind of define-your-opponent blitzkrieg, however ridiculous
the attacks may be, has to be answered immediately -- and in kind.

Negative campaigning is not a pretty thing, and it should be beneath John
McCain to stoop so low. But Democrats would be foolish to forget that
sometimes it works.

[NortheastCynic]

Whoa.

Deja vu. (http://www.democracyforums.com/showthread.php?p=229026#post229026)

-NC

[Leslie]

I don't know what bothers me more, that candidates are so shallow to engage in negative meaningless campaigning or that they believe we fall for it, oh wait, there are some folks who not only fall for it, hell, they repeat it as though it's actually factual. :shame:

[heyjude]

The only thing I hold against black people is their inability to see past their race. Some of them are unable to believe that they can't be disliked, distrusted, or disbelieved for any reason other than they are black. Obviously, there are blacks who are dishonest, untrustworthy, and unlikeable.

And it is possible to not want Obama to be president just because you think he would be an incompetent man at the job. Playing up the idea that any criticism of Obama is racism is a dirty job, and we would be fools for falling for it. There are people who are trying that though, and in my opinion Obama is one of them. That is why he keeps accusing people of being racists.

Obama routinely accused the Clinton of being racists. I never read one word from them that was. And I read the so called racist remarks. We cannot elect a man who has no qualification for the presidency to the office because he thinks he can fool us and guilt us into doing so. Shame on him.

[Leslie]

His momma don't like it. :madlaugh:

Sen. John McCain may be "proud" of the Paris Hilton/Britney Spears ad released this week, but his feisty 96-year-old mother apparently disagrees.

Roberta McCain was a featured guest at a McCain campaign event on Thursday afternoon at the Mayflower Hotel in Washington DC. The Huffington Post obtained some audio of an exchange after the event where Mrs. McCain is asked about the Paris Hilton ad.

"Oh, well, I didn't see it -- I think it's kinda stupid," she says. "I'm just too old-hat for it. In fact, the other two, I didn't even know who they were. I knew who Paris Hilton was, but then there were other two young girls..." (Someone informed Mrs. McCain that there were only two women in the ad, and that the other was Britney Spears.)

Within a few moments, Roberta was back on message. An acquaintance noted the statement from Rick Davis that was "going to be in the headlines tomorrow," criticizing Obama "for injecting racism into the campaign."

"Oh, he definitely did," Roberta responded.

Audio here.

Link (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/08/01/roberta-mccain-chimes-in_n_116387.html)

[heyjude]

And what was your point? I don't like any ad.

[IndieVisible]

Go for it John.......Hillary lost the primary for doing it......so good luck! (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/07/31/AR2008073102820.html?nav=hcmodule)

I'm not a fan of McCain, and I support Obama, but in all fairness I find nothing in McCain's argument over the top or questioning his patriotism. All he is questioning is his judgment and priorities. All fair game, get use to it. Hillary throw more mud at Obama then McCain has so far.

[Leslie]

And what was your point? I don't like any ad.


Are you askin' me, sorry, but I don't want to appear I'm ignoring you.

[NortheastCynic]

I'm thoroughly confused.

McCain says nothing of Obama's race.

Obama says McCain, or, at the very least, his campaign will bring up race.

McCain calls Obama out for race-baiting.

McCain's the bad guy?

Wha?

-NC

[IndieVisible]

The only thing I hold against black people is their inability to see past their race. Some of them are unable to believe that they can't be disliked, distrusted, or disbelieved for any reason other than they are black. Obviously, there are blacks who are dishonest, untrustworthy, and unlikeable.

And it is possible to not want Obama to be president just because you think he would be an incompetent man at the job. Playing up the idea that any criticism of Obama is racism is a dirty job, and we would be fools for falling for it. There are people who are trying that though, and in my opinion Obama is one of them. That is why he keeps accusing people of being racists.

Obama routinely accused the Clinton of being racists. I never read one word from them that was. And I read the so called racist remarks. We cannot elect a man who has no qualification for the presidency to the office because he thinks he can fool us and guilt us into doing so. Shame on him.

I don't believe every one is fooled or takes the race issue that seriously. Obama is not really that black any way. He is no Spike Lee. But you must understand that there are indeed a lot of whites who are uncomfortable with a black candidate and they will hide behind any reason just to hide their racist side. Some are honest about it and I prefer a person to just come out and say they don't like Obama because his is too black for them. I can respect that more then people who go out of their way making silly excuses to justify their fears.

[Leslie]

I'm thoroughly confused.

McCain says nothing of Obama's race.

Obama says McCain, or, at the very least, his campaign will bring up race.

McCain calls Obama out for race-baiting.

McCain's the bad guy?

Wha?

-NC

LOL, NC, now I'm confused too, I thought the OP was about negative campaigning. :lmao:

[NortheastCynic]

Indeed, I was referring to the first few paragraphs when the author spoke of the McCain campaign's reaction to Obama's 'he doesn't look like all the white Presidents' jab.

-NC

[Leslie]

I don't believe every one is fooled or takes the race issue that seriously. Obama is not really that black any way. He is no Spike Lee. But you must understand that there are indeed a lot of whites who are uncomfortable with a black candidate and they will hide behind any reason just to hide their racist side. Some are honest about it and I prefer a person to just come out and say they don't like Obama because his is too black for them. I can respect that more then people who go out of their way making silly excuses to justify their fears.

I agree with you, Indie, Obama is no Spike Lee.
I've got neighbors that won't vote for him because he's "Muslim." ;)
And most of them also say "ya know if he's elected, those people are gonna get uppity."

What can I say, they're older white folks.

[NDNdancer]

All you have to do is to look at the polls. MANY Americans stated they would not vote for Obama because he was black. Race is an issue, but not in the way people think it is.

It's not the candidates who are making it an issue, it's the subtext beneath anything that happens in America. It's the elephant in the living room that no one talks about.

We deplore what's happened with the sub prime lending schemes, but rarely discuss the issue that those schemes were targeted to mainly black and hispanic Americans, even those who had GOOD credit and could have qualified for better term loans. They were deliberately steered to the sub prime mortgages.

I was outraged over the ad with Paris and Britney, two blonde white women and a black man. I was furious at the images, the silent use of those images that were used during the worst race baiting times in our history. I and every other brown/black person in America understood that ad had nothing to do with "airhead blonde bimbos". I waited, for days, to see if anyone would mention it. No one did. It's still something we can't even DISCUSS rationally. And, McCains handlers know that and exploited it. That ad was directed to the limbic brain of every white American and those ugly images of the past that they used to bring up whenever the black man was getting "uppity". We all know it, we just don't talk about it.

McCain is slime. I'll never have a shred of respect for him, ever.

[Leslie]

All you have to do is to look at the polls. MANY Americans stated they would not vote for Obama because he was black. Race is an issue, but not in the way people think it is.

It's not the candidates who are making it an issue, it's the subtext beneath anything that happens in America. It's the elephant in the living room that no one talks about.

We deplore what's happened with the sub prime lending schemes, but rarely discuss the issue that those schemes were targeted to mainly black and hispanic Americans, even those who had GOOD credit and could have qualified for better term loans. They were deliberately steered to the sub prime mortgages.

I was outraged over the ad with Paris and Britney, two blonde white women and a black man. I was furious at the images, the silent use of those images that were used during the worst race baiting times in our history. I and every other brown/black person in America understood that ad had nothing to do with "airhead blonde bimbos". I waited, for days, to see if anyone would mention it. No one did. It's still something we can't even DISCUSS rationally. And, McCains handlers know that and exploited it. That ad was directed to the limbic brain of every white American and those ugly images of the past that they used to bring up whenever the black man was getting "uppity". We all know it, we just don't talk about it.

McCain is slime. I'll never have a shred of respect for him, ever.

McCain thinks it's still 1950.

btw, Kyi Yo, you put that really well. :thumbsup:

[Leslie]

A couple days ago we promised to try to nail down precisely what the McCain campaign is spending on its Britney-Obama ad.

Well, it looks like McCain is sinking a significant proportion of his current ad spending into it.

Evan Tracey, who tracks national ad buys for the Campaign Media Analysis Group, tells us that McCain is spending over $140,000 a day to run the spot. (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/08/01/report-mccain-spending-14_n_116454.html) That accounts for roughly a third of his current overall TV ad spending, Tracey says.

[NortheastCynic]

So I'm sorry. White women can not be included in anti-Obama ads? Doing so is racist?

The context was clear. Spears and Hilton are celebrities; celebrities who wouldn't make good Presidents. Barack Obama is a celebrity; he would not make a good President.

You really have to be looking for racism to see it in this ad.

. I and every other brown/black person in America understood that ad had nothing to do with "airhead blonde bimbos".I think it's presumptuous to speak on behalf of every brown/black person in America. I, a 'brown', mixed-race individual, saw no racism in it. And yes, I understand the historical context of the ad. I remember the ad down in Tennessee about Sen. Ford...There is a substantial difference between that ad and McCain's.

-NC

[NDNdancer]

Apparently, you're just more enlightened then I am I suppose. Good on you!.

I will however continue to know in my heart their intent was to show two blonde white women who American's have an insane fascination for, with the newest uppity black man in town. It was about race and it was intended for no other reason then to bring out the worst in Americans by race baiting.

[NortheastCynic]

Apparently, you're just more enlightened then I am I suppose. Good on you!.Your words, not mine :). I certainly don't mean to say that. What I did mean to say [and did say] is that there are some people who are brown/black/mixed who were not offended by the ad. That's all.

-NC

[Leslie]

I certainly don't mean any offense to you young folks, but I do think ya had to have been there to "get" the implication, meaning that some older folks know the implication of blondes and blacks. One has to question was McCain's camp so stupid with this 'comparative' of celebrities or was there a sinister subliminal message included for older whites? Hell, maybe the ad was meant to say many things at the same time.

[IndieVisible]

Apparently, you're just more enlightened then I am I suppose. Good on you!.

I will however continue to know in my heart their intent was to show two blonde white women who American's have an insane fascination for, with the newest uppity black man in town. It was about race and it was intended for no other reason then to bring out the worst in Americans by race baiting.

I think it was more of an attempt to show Obama as a elitist and superficial then playing the race card. Even Bill Clinton referred to Obama as a 'fairy tale". That was also taken as racist but i did not take it that way. Keep in mind I am a Obama supporter and trying to look at all this objectively.

I think it would be suicide for McCain to actually play a real race card.

[lily]

LOL, NC, now I'm confused too, I thought the OP was about negative campaigning. :lmao:


Whew! I thought I was the only one who thought it was about negative campaigning and not about race...........that's the reason I posted the article........but it seems we can't get off the race issue and NEC pointed out that this was a duplicate, so maybe I'll try that thread.......but since this turned into another thread about race I'd also like to respond to this:

I certainly don't mean any offense to you young folks, but I do think ya had to have been there to "get" the implication, meaning that some older folks know the implication of blondes and blacks. One has to question was McCain's camp so stupid with this 'comparative' of celebrities or was there a sinister subliminal message included for older whites? Hell, maybe the ad was meant to say many things at the same time.

Again you hit the nail on the head, if we're going to talk about that one commercial.......and not all the others where he hinted that Obama is a traitor to his country, or he hates the troops.........this ad was directed exactly for the group you mentioned.......the older people, who still think there is something wrong with a black man and a white woman.......the generation that didn't see the rascism in this ad are already voting for Obama......McCain is "hitting his base".

[BoogyMan]

I was outraged over the ad with Paris and Britney, two blonde white women and a black man. I was furious at the images, the silent use of those images that were used during the worst race baiting times in our history. I and every other brown/black person in America understood that ad had nothing to do with "airhead blonde bimbos". I waited, for days, to see if anyone would mention it. No one did. It's still something we can't even DISCUSS rationally. And, McCains handlers know that and exploited it. That ad was directed to the limbic brain of every white American and those ugly images of the past that they used to bring up whenever the black man was getting "uppity". We all know it, we just don't talk about it.

It still hasn't been discussed rationally Kyi Yo. That ad meant exactly what it said it did, Obama has super star status and is as empty headed as the two blonde super stars he was equated with. That was the message of the ad and the only way to get race into it is to want to try and CREATE a race message where none exists.

[ECW]

It still hasn't been discussed rationally Kyi Yo. That ad meant exactly what it said it did, Obama has super star status and is as empty headed as the two blonde super stars he was equated with. That was the message of the ad and the only way to get race into it is to want to try and CREATE a race message where none exists.

Tell that to Harold Ford, Jr.

[BoogyMan]

Tell that to Harold Ford, Jr.

Off topic. Ford is not the topic of discussion, ECW.

[Leslie]

It still hasn't been discussed rationally Kyi Yo. That ad meant exactly what it said it did, Obama has super star status and is as empty headed as the two blonde super stars he was equated with. That was the message of the ad and the only way to get race into it is to want to try and CREATE a race message where none exists.

Tell that to Harold Ford, Jr.

Off topic. Ford is not the topic of discussion, ECW.


May not be the topic, but it's still relevant, it's a perfect example of subliminal racism. Ask Harold Ford, Jr.

[NortheastCynic]

So should John McCain include only men and black women in his negative ads because clearly, any inclusion of a white woman is subtle racism.

-NC

[sam]

I don't believe every one is fooled or takes the race issue that seriously. Obama is not really that black any way. He is no Spike Lee. But you must understand that there are indeed a lot of whites who are uncomfortable with a black candidate and they will hide behind any reason just to hide their racist side. Some are honest about it and I prefer a person to just come out and say they don't like Obama because his is too black for them. I can respect that more then people who go out of their way making silly excuses to justify their fears.

I agree with you Indie, I think the race, gender issue in this campaign was and will continue to be an issue as much as people deny it.

In all honesty, I don't like either candidate. The next four years look grim, regardless of who wins.

[AlanC]

So should John McCain include only men and black women in his negative ads because clearly, any inclusion of a white woman is subtle racism.

-NC

Either that or they could morph his picture with Michael Jackson's complexion... and make him look whiter?

Would that satisfy all the racists on the left? ;)

[Milton Bradley]

So should John McCain include only men and black women in his negative ads because clearly, any inclusion of a white woman is subtle racism.

-NC


Indeed, and if it is percieved as "racist" to have a blonde person in the add, is it then racist to have a "token" Black/Brown person in the administration?


:madlaugh:

[lily]

You know........the more I think about it, the smarter McCain is looking...so many news shows are showing this ad and talking about it....it's getting free air time!:madlaugh:

[ECW]

Off topic. Ford is not the topic of discussion, ECW.

Bullshit. Ford was slammed with a race baiting ad in the exact same fashion as Obama was, if I remember correctly back to 2006, an ad YOU DEFENDED. So don't you throw your condescending crap around here because you'll get called on it everytime.

McCain's ad was the product of one rove protege and the ad ran by Corker in that Tennessee race were the product of another Rove protege and both bottom feeding scum suckers were race baiting. McCain's empty claim to run a campaign on the issues is just more bullshit. You can buy that story if you want. I see it otherwise.

[BoogyMan]

Bullshit. Ford was slammed with a race baiting ad in the exact same fashion as Obama was, if I remember correctly back to 2006, an ad YOU DEFENDED. So don't you throw your condescending crap around here because you'll get called on it everytime.

Ford isn't the topic, so stop trying to change it to him and I am not the topic so stop trying to change it to me. Debate the points of the thread.

McCain's ad was the product of one rove protege and the ad ran by Corker in that Tennessee race were the product of another Rove protege and both bottom feeding scum suckers were race baiting. McCain's empty claim to run a campaign on the issues is just more bullshit. You can buy that story if you want. I see it otherwise.

The only ones race baiting here are Obama (the comment about him not looking like the other presidents on the dollar) and those who demand that the ad about Obama being a star and not much else was a racial ad because they **GASP** had **GASP** white people in the ad.

[ECW]

Originally Posted by ECW
Bullshit. Ford was slammed with a race baiting ad in the exact same fashion as Obama was, if I remember correctly back to 2006, an ad YOU DEFENDED. So don't you throw your condescending crap around here because you'll get called on it everytime.[QUOTE]
Ford isn't the topic, so stop trying to change it to him and I am not the topic so stop trying to change it to me. Debate the points of the thread.

Harold Ford is exactly the topic because the topic is how far "Saint John" has strayed from his promise to run a campaign on the issues and with Rove people on board, that is EXACTLY what has happened. Bringing up previous examples of the Rovian influence is on point, whether you like it or not. Despite your whining about it, I am not trying to change the topic to Harold Ford. It was merely an example. Sorry if using examples to prove a point about how far the Rove inspired campaign of John McCain, who isn't even your candidate of choice, has strayed from his promise.

[QUOTE]
Originally Posted by ECW
McCain's ad was the product of one rove protege and the ad ran by Corker in that Tennessee race were the product of another Rove protege and both bottom feeding scum suckers were race baiting. McCain's empty claim to run a campaign on the issues is just more bullshit. You can buy that story if you want. I see it otherwise.The only ones race baiting here are Obama (the comment about him not looking like the other presidents on the dollar) and those who demand that the ad about Obama being a star and not much else was a racial ad because they **GASP** had **GASP** white people in the ad.

Let me see if I have this correct:

McCain runs a Rove inspired ad strangely similar to another Rove inspired ad chock full of skanky white women (that even YOU would object being compared to), an ad that blasts Obama for his popularity (some fucking issue that is, huh?), an ad that plays upon the racial stereotypes of black men and white women, an ad that Obama and his supporters object to and you turn around and parrot the RNC talking points of the day and say that OBAMA IS RACE BAITING?

That's rich, pal.

That's really rich.

Get back to me when you can tell what ISSUE this ad was addressing.

[BoogyMan]

Harold Ford is exactly the topic because the topic is how far "Saint John" has strayed from his promise to run a campaign on the issues and with Rove people on board, that is EXACTLY what has happened. Bringing up previous examples of the Rovian influence is on point, whether you like it or not. Despite your whining about it, I am not trying to change the topic to Harold Ford. It was merely an example. orry if using examples to prove a point about how far the Rove inspired campaign of John McCain, who isn't even your candidate of choice, has strayed from his promise.

Silly me, and here I was thinking we were talking about how the left is intent on trying to fake up racist claims about every rebuttal to Senator Obama's rhetoric.

What do you think the supposed "star power" of Obama is? What do you think Obama's flip flops are? What do you think Obama's desires to raise tax rates are? They are ISSUES, ECW. McCain IS running his race on the issues.

[BoogyMan]

Let me see if I have this correct:

McCain runs a Rove inspired ad strangely similar to another Rove inspired ad chock full of skanky white women (that even YOU would object being compared to), an ad that blasts Obama for his popularity (some fucking issue that is, huh?), an ad that plays upon the racial stereotypes of black men and white women, an ad that Obama and his supporters object to and you turn around and parrot the RNC talking points of the day and say that OBAMA IS RACE BAITING?

That's rich, pal.

That's really rich.

Get back to me when you can tell what ISSUE this ad was addressing.

Obama IS race baiting as are the majority of his supporters who claim that because there were white women in the ad that it MUST be a racist statement. A charge they can neither substantiate nor prove.

[ECW]

Harold Ford is exactly the topic because the topic is how far "Saint John" has strayed from his promise to run a campaign on the issues and with Rove people on board, that is EXACTLY what has happened. Bringing up previous examples of the Rovian influence is on point, whether you like it or not. Despite your whining about it, I am not trying to change the topic to Harold Ford. It was merely an example. Sorry if using examples to prove a point about how far the Rove inspired campaign of John McCain, who isn't even your candidate of choice, has strayed from his promise.Silly me, and here I was thinking we were talking about how the left is intent on trying to fake up racist claims about every rebuttal to Senator Obama's rhetoric.

What do you think the supposed "star power" of Obama is? What do you think Obama's flip flops are? What do you think Obama's desires to raise tax rates are? They are ISSUES, ECW. McCain IS running his race on the issues.

Last time I looked this thread was about the campaign that John McCain claimed he was going to run. An ad featuring Brittney Spears and Paris Hilton and Barack Obama whining about how popular (or "star power") they all are isn't any fucking issue I remember McCain addressing in any one of his 1,000 town halls. It's a race bomb, plain and simple. It isn't an "issue" at all.

So, tell me, what issue was McCain addressing in that ad or the one called "The One"? What issue?

[BoogyMan]

Last time I looked this thread was about the campaign that John McCain claimed he was going to run. An ad featuring Brittney Spears and Paris Hilton and Barack Obama whining about how popular (or "star power") they all are isn't any fucking issue I remember McCain addressing in any one of his 1,000 town halls. It's a race bomb, plain and simple. It isn't an "issue" at all.

So, tell me, what issue was McCain addressing in that ad or the one called "The One"? What issue?

McCain was addressing the fact that people are practically worshipping Obama based on NOTHING. All that new hope that Obama is giving them is based on NOTHING.

The only way this can be construed as a race issue is if the radical left continues to demand that we see it as one without any evidence of it being one. That is the only way.

[ECW]

McCain was addressing the fact that people are practically worshipping Obama based on NOTHING. All that new hope that Obama is giving them is based on NOTHING.

THAT'S an issue? Since when? What garbage.

The only way this can be construed as a race issue is if the radical left continues to demand that we see it as one without any evidence of it being one. That is the only way.

Since I am not a member of the radical left, that does not apply to me. Nice try, though.

You can keep beating your head against the wall about not seeing this for the race baiting bomb that it was. That's fine by me. You can ignore centuries of American history about the fears that elements of "White Society" drug up about the virility of black men and the chastity of white women and how they had to be protected at all costs. One of the landmark movies of cinema, Birth Of A Nation, used this very theme but I guess you never saw the movie. You never saw photos of black men lynched for "crimes" real or imagined against white women. You did not realize how Republicans became the dominant party in the South after LBJ pushed thru Civil Rights legislation and all the racist Democrats left the party to become Republicans and Republicans uttered nary a peep of protest at the influx of "new blood" to the party. John McCain's new handlers, the Karl Rove element, knows this history and played that race card along with the fear card it is attached to, in producing this ad. It is not an issue of presidential politics until the bottom feeders get ahold of it.

You can ignore history all you want but the facts are there, facts for all to see. Given your history of debate here, I can see why you object to the facts being used over the far superior opinion you have trotted out in debate after debate.

[BoogyMan]

Can you comment without the personal invective? Just once, ECW?

When you show some concrete proof that the ads were racist, which you cannot, you and I will then have something to talk about. You have not given a SINGLE FACT. Provide the proof of the racism behind the ad that you claim is definately there. We are NOT talking about past race problems here, we are discussing an unprovable allegation that there are race issues behind the ad with Spears an Hilton.

Egads, it won't be long before we cannot even have people of different races on TV shows together as that is horribly racist and wrong.

One more thing, I would imagine based on your insistance that McCain equating Obama and Paris Hilton is racist, that you would have to call Mr. Obama himself a racist since he made the comparison back in 2005.

http://www.time.com/time/verbatim/20050228/5.html

Is the Washington Post racist for also repeating what Mr. Obama had already said about himself?


Source: Link (http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A48523-2005Feb23?language=printer)

There's nothing exotic or complicated about how phenoms are made in Washington, and, more to the point, how they are broken.
"Andy Warhol said we all get our 15 minutes of fame," says Barack Obama. "I've already had an hour and a half. I mean, I'm so overexposed, I'm making Paris Hilton look like a recluse."


...read more... (http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A48523-2005Feb23?language=printer)

[TheStripey1]

Go for it John.......Hillary lost the primary for doing it......so good luck! (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/07/31/AR2008073102820.html?nav=hcmodule)

When republicans are desperate and they know they haven't a leg to stand on, they do the only thing possible for them... they dig in their heels, roll up their sleeves and think of the vilest things to call their opponents... not only in the presidential race but on these boards as well...

And what was your point? I don't like any ad.

I think her point was that negative campaigning was tried by Hillary and obviously, she lost.

So lily wished John McCain luck in applying the same strategy.

Mod Notice: Stripey1, you know the rules here.
11. All proper names of political figures should be spelled correctly. Nicknames like Hitlary or Chimpy are unacceptable. (http://www.democracyforums.com/showthread.php?t=11114)Name of political figure in the post above changed to comply. Please follow forum rules.

[ECW]

Can you comment without the personal invective? Just once, ECW?

Invective? Offering a comment on your usual tactics is now invective, eh? Trust me, if I wanted to offer up some invective I am more than capable of doing so but what was said to you about you hardly qualifies. Sorry.

When you show some concrete proof that the ads were racist, which you cannot, you and I will then have something to talk about.

I offered up a historical retrospective that you either did not read or you discounted since it did not directly affect you. It's a common syndrome with white southerners (of which I am one) but I can see the history that you cannot or will not.

You have not given a SINGLE FACT.

No. I've given more than a single fact.

Provide the proof of the racism behind the ad that you claim is definately there.

Previously addressed.

We are NOT talking about past race problems here, we are discussing an unprovable allegation that there are race issues behind the ad with Spears an Hilton.

Actually, those who forget their history are doomed to repeat it and if that's the philosophy you want to employ here, knock yourself out. This country is wrapped up in race problems, in case you hadn't noticed. As I mentioned previously, the issue of white women and black men is a major underlying current to those race relations, a fact not lost on the Rove inspired handlers of one John McCain. I am not alone in this assessment.

Gee, I wonder why, if you have a black man running for high public office — say, Barack Obama or Harold Ford — the opposition feels compelled to run low-life political ads featuring tacky, sexually provocative white women who have no connection whatsoever to the black male candidates.

Spare me any more drivel about the high-mindedness of John McCain. You knew something was up back in March when, in his first ad of the general campaign, Mr. McCain had himself touted as “the American president Americans have been waiting for.”

There was nothing subtle about that attempt to position Senator Obama as the Other, a candidate who might technically be American but who remained in some sense foreign, not sufficiently patriotic and certainly not one of us — the “us” being the genuine red-white-and-blue Americans who the ad was aimed at.

Since then, Senator McCain has only upped the ante, smearing Mr. Obama every which way from sundown. On Wednesday, The Washington Post ran an extraordinary front-page article that began:

“For four days, Senator John McCain and his allies have accused Senator Barack Obama of snubbing wounded soldiers by canceling a visit to a military hospital because he could not take reporters with him, despite no evidence that the charge is true.”

Evidence? John McCain needs no evidence. His campaign is about trashing the opposition, Karl Rove-style. Not satisfied with calling his opponent’s patriotism into question, Mr. McCain added what amounted to a charge of treason, insisting that Senator Obama would actually prefer that the United States lose a war if that would mean that he — Senator Obama — would not have to lose an election.

Now, from the hapless but increasingly venomous McCain campaign, comes the slimy Britney Spears and Paris Hilton ad. The two highly sexualized women (both notorious for displaying themselves to the paparazzi while not wearing underwear) are shown briefly and incongruously at the beginning of a commercial critical of Mr. Obama.

The Republican National Committee targeted Harold Ford with a similarly disgusting ad in 2006 when Mr. Ford, then a congressman, was running a strong race for a U.S. Senate seat in Tennessee. The ad, which the committee described as a parody, showed a scantily clad woman whispering, “Harold, call me.”

Both ads were foul, poisonous and emanated from the upper reaches of the Republican Party. (What a surprise.) Both were designed to exploit the hostility, anxiety and resentment of the many white Americans who are still freakishly hung up on the idea of black men rising above their station and becoming sexually involved with white women.

The racial fantasy factor in this presidential campaign is out of control. It was at work in that New Yorker cover that caused such a stir. (Mr. Obama in Muslim garb with the American flag burning in the fireplace.) It’s driving the idea that Barack Obama is somehow presumptuous, too arrogant, too big for his britches — a man who obviously does not know his place.

Mr. Obama has to endure these grotesque insults with a smile and heroic levels of equanimity. The reason he has to do this — the sole reason — is that he is black.

So there he was this week speaking evenly, and with a touch of humor, to a nearly all-white audience in Missouri. His goal was to reassure his listeners, to let them know he’s not some kind of unpatriotic ogre.

Mr. Obama told them: “What they’re going to try to do is make you scared of me. You know, he’s not patriotic enough. He’s got a funny name. You know, he doesn’t look like all those other presidents on those dollar bills, you know. He’s risky.”

The audience seemed to appreciate his comments. Mr. Obama was well-received.

But John McCain didn’t appreciate them. RACE CARD! RACE CARD! The McCain camp started bellowing, and it hasn’t stopped since. With great glee bursting through their feigned outrage, the campaign’s operatives and the candidate himself accused Senator Obama of introducing race into the campaign — playing the race card, as they put it, from the very bottom of the deck.

Whatever you think about Barack Obama, he does not want the race issue to be front and center in this campaign. Every day that the campaign is about race is a good day for John McCain. So I guess we understand Mr. McCain’s motivation.

Nevertheless, it’s frustrating to watch John McCain calling out Barack Obama on race. Senator Obama has spoken more honestly and thoughtfully about race than any other politician in many years. Senator McCain is the head of a party that has viciously exploited race for political gain for decades.

He’s obviously more than willing to continue that nauseating tradition. (http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/02/opinion/02herbert.html?pagewanted=print)



Egads, it won't be long before we cannot even have people of different races on TV shows together as that is horribly racist and wrong.

You can extrapolate this issue out to a ridiculous extreme if you want. It isn't the first time you have tried this absurdity and it will not, unfortunately, be the last. It doesn't mean anything when you get right down to it.

One more thing, I would imagine based on your insistance that McCain equating Obama and Paris Hilton is racist, that you would have to call Mr. Obama himself a racist since he made the comparison back in 2005.

Obama commenting on the fact that he is overexposed from all the media attention is quite different from a republican candidate for president pairing him and two promiscuous white women in an ad whining about the popularity of the Democratic candidate. I'm not the only one who sees it either.

ALTER: You know, you have to get your advertising message on a plane where the message actually penetrates.

OLBERMANN: What about when it backfires because it seems like the celebrity ad continues to echo and Bob Herbert of the “New York Times” was on this network pointing out something—I don‘t know that anybody noticed before, this morning—that not only in that McCain ad were there two underdressed blondes mixed with the black guy in the ad, but there are also images of the Leaning Tower of Pisa, the Washington monument, and the Victory Column in Berlin, as Bob Herbert put it, “phallic symbols”—three phallic symbols, two blondes and Barack Obama.

So, this is not just a sexist ad anymore, this is what they used against misogynation, isn‘t it? This is what they used against Harold Ford.

ALTER: Well, to suggest that somehow, you know, Obama is going to -

OLBERMANN: He‘s going to wind updating those women. That‘s the idea.

ALTER: Yes. And that‘s the oldest and deepest, you know, racist canard in American history, really, is that, you know, the slave is going to come after the wife of the plantation owner (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26037831/).

Is the Washington Post racist for also repeating what Mr. Obama had already said about himself?

If you don't know the answer to that, I really can't help you.

All in all, it makes the claim of John McCain to run a campaign on the issues just so much clap trap especially now that the Rove Crew is on board. The only issue for this ad was Obama's blackness which is just so much more race baiting.

[BoogyMan]

Interesting ECW, not a single substantive response.

The claim has been that since Obama is a black man and the two women in the ad were white that it must be a racist ad and that there is some sinister undertone.

I shot that silly notion completely out of the water as I showed that Obama himself has made the Hilton comparison. Since both deal with star-power the point is even more cogent and damaging to your line of argumentation.