Immigrations effects on our population growth.

[Labrocca]

I was just watching FOX and a great segment was on about how the immigrants are essential to our population growth and it's them and their children that will be paying the social security benefits of the next couple generations. A couple good points were made about how most working immigrants weren't educated here (saving us money is the inference). There was other points as well but I guess this is enough to start a discussion.

[CheesyMuslim]

Sorry bout that,

1. But yeah I'm watching that too.
2, *The Wall Street Journal*
3. British guy is anchor of it.
4. I view this immigration problem as more of an invasion.
5. Its gotten way out of control.
6. And sure we can used some weak minds and strong backs.
7. But many jobs that used to be for white folks, are no longer available.
8. And those who are filling them now are not really that much cheaper, consider the quality, re-does are at an all time high.
9. Those who hire these illegals are taking a chance.
10. Everyday, they wake up hoping that they don't have to rip something out and do it again.
11. What happened to everyone speaking a common language?
12. And the feelings of accomplishment?

Regards,
SirJamesofTexas

[Labrocca]

5. Out of control how? What negative effects do you see on the economy. Or are you just afraid of a culture change?
7. It's now the white folks that are hiring the immigrants.
9. Again..they aren't getting hired by other Mexicans.

[CheesyMuslim]

Sorry bout that,

1. But you have to look at the big picture.
2. The Big Picture says.
3. We are getting screwed in so many ways it isn't funny.
4. Firstly. * They come here and plop out a child, then go back to Mexico and get Social Security, because that child is a American.
5. Not to mention those cases where there is some birth problem, which all services are totally free, but who pays you might ask?
6. Thousand upon thousands of Mexican workers end up with Law Suits, and retire to Mexico.
7. Work mans comp is full of the same, who are collecting checks while they are in Mexico.
8. The cost to make all things in out Government in Spanish.
9. The expense to teach their children Spanish in our schools is staggering.
10.The cost to jobs in construction for the real Americans is huge.
11. Our jails are being flooded by Mexicans, that is expensive, and who's paying for it?
12. Random murders, for they feel they can escape back to Mexico in less than 24 hours, and escape justice hiding in rural areas., which they can, simple name change, and no one would ever find them.
13. They carry drugs into our Country for sale to pay their rent and get established here., buy a truck, tools etc.
14. There are way to many loop holes provided for Mexicans, that need closing right now.
15. I am sure I have missed something, but I hope some one will add it here.


Regards,
SirJamesofTexas

[DHard3006]

Americans do not have a problem with immigration. What Americans are angry with is the 12 million or more illegal immigrates in America.
The leftist aka progressives like to attempt to make this a race issue.

[bobbylien]

The leftist aka progressives like to attempt to make this a race issue.

7. But many jobs that used to be for white folks, are no longer available.
Yeah... the leftists are making this a race issue!

14. There are way to many loop holes provided for Mexicans, that need closing right now.
Exactly, thats why we need to work something out between the hard working illegal immigrants so we can focus on the criminals. We need to strengthen our border and make sure no more illegals can get into this country. If kicking all of the illegals out of this country was a reasonable solution I would gladly go along with it but its not. We must give some kind of amnesty option for the better of the illegals to apply for citizenship and focus our immigration agents on those who will commit crimes. If we need these people to help our economy then we should open up our borders for more legal immigration, that way we get all kinds of people from all over the world.

[Mayberry]

We must give some kind of amnesty option for the better of the illegals to apply for citizenship Yeah, that's the way to stop illegal immigration. Might as well put up signs at the border saying "come on in, break the law, it's o.k."

[Anti-Racism]

Even outside of the race issue, do you want the USA to become like Mexico? Average IQ in USA is approximately 100; in Mexico, it's 87.

[Elrathin]

Even outside of the race issue, do you want the USA to become like Mexico? Average IQ in USA is approximately 100; in Mexico, it's 87.


So you would be ok with illegal immigration if the average IQ of an illegal alien is above 100?

Something tells me this IQ thing plays no bearing whatosever in your decision.

[Rider]

One of the big issues on the horizon that the PC crowd is trying desparately to ignore is the unintended consequences from birth control and abortion. These two factors have turned the demographics of the western world upside down. Since 1973 and Roe v Wade there have been somewhere between 35 and 40 million abortions in the US. Who knows how many people would be among us if not for the pill? Now, I don't intend to discuss the pros and cons of this, but there is one unalterable fact. Our population would be at least 50 million larger had these two factors not prevailed.
I'm all for smaller populations for dozens of reasons that I'm sure most of you recognize, but there is one grave problem. No one has figured out how to have a healthy economy without growth. The rate of growth in our economy is how we measure its health. Twelve million illegals sound like a large number and it is, but it is still not enough to replace our losses.
The numbers are far worse for Europe. I've read about intelligence estimates that predict economic and social collapse in western Europe within 15 years. If population continues to decline, some countries such as Germany and Russia will effectively cease to exist within 100 years.
Our population is being bolstered by Mexicans who, for whatever else, share most of our culture and heritage. Europe's population is being bolstered by North African Muslims. Not pretty.

[Alonzo]

Even outside of the race issue, do you want the USA to become like Mexico? Average IQ in USA is approximately 100; in Mexico, it's 87.




That would change depending on education, nutrition etc. The factors that contribute to low IQ in mexico are not problems in the u.s., or at least nowhere near the same extent. Poor whites in isolated rural areas also have lower IQ's. National IQ scores are useless in arguments like this. For example, in Mexico regions with 30% malnutrition rates and no real public education system drag down scores, yet such areas do not exist in the u.s.

[Anti-Racism]

That would change depending on education, nutrition etc. The factors that contribute to low IQ in mexico are not problems in the u.s., or at least nowhere near the same extent.


IQ is mostly genetic. I don't see any evidence or even coherence in your statement.

[CheesyMuslim]

Sorry bout that,

1. But review all my org. points.
2. America is being a$$ r@ped, by those South of The Border.
3. *They doing a job at 40% discount does not cover what we as a Nation are losing*
4. Take it to the Bank!
5. I have said it, and there's no way that I can be wrong.
6. Unless we cut off all the loop holes, we as a Nation will be dragged down further and further.
7. I happen to love those people from South of The Border, but I can not buy into the fact that they are being coddled, and protected, even when they break our Laws, if it was me, I would be fined or imprisoned.
8. This is a total OUTRAGE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
9. I intend to keep ranting till everyone agrees with me, and I get things changed in the government.

Regards,
SirJamesofTexas

[Alonzo]

a new study published in the April issue of Child Development by researchers at Columbia and Northwestern Universities suggests that poverty and early learning opportunities -- not race -- account for the gap in IQ scores between blacks and whites.

Adjustments for socioeconomic conditions almost completely eliminate differences in IQ scores between black and white children, according to the study's co-investigators. They include Jeanne Brooks-Gunn and Pamela Klebanov of Columbia's Teachers College, and Greg Duncan of the Center for Urban Affairs and Policy Research at Northwestern University.

As in many other studies, the black children in the study had IQ scores a full 15 points lower than their white counterparts. Poverty alone, the researchers found, accounted for 52 percent of that difference, cutting it to 7 points. Controlling for the children's home environment reduced the difference by another 28 percent, to a statistically insignificant 3 points -- in essence, eliminating the gap altogether.

http://www.albionmonitor.com/5-5-96/povertyiq.html

In a paper to be published in the October issue of the journal Psychological Science, William Dickens and James Flynn show that the gap in measured cognitive ability between blacks and whites has narrowed by at least a quarter since 1972. The researchers analyzed nationally representative samples of blacks and whites on four different tests of cognitive ability. On all four tests, blacks show large gains relative to whites with results varying somewhat across the different tests. Pooling the results, the researchers find that blacks have gained an average of .18 IQ points a year on whites from 1972 to 2002 for a total gain of 5.4 IQ points. Further, blacks have gained on whites at all points in the distribution of ability, with gains being only modestly lower for those in the top 10 percent.

These gains in cognitive ability have come during a time when blacks have made notable progress towards social and economic equality in some areas and suggest the possibility that further progress will bring further IQ gains.


http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/medicalnews.php?newsid=51758

For example, one of ABC's studies showed that women who watched a sexist ad about ditzy females scored 38 percent lower on a math test than women who didn't see it.

The women were more influenced by the negative image than they had realized.

If women who watched the ad were then reminded they were students at a prestigious women's school, the scores went up.

The same tests were conducted on Asians, some of whom were told Asians do well in math and some who were told they didn't. The same thing happened with them as with the women: The group that was told Asians do well in math scored better than the group that was told they didn't.

They then tried the experiment on blacks.

A professor who conducted the experiment said he could change the IQ test scores of blacks simply by calling the tests a puzzle.

The scores of black students increased significantly.

A psychologist at the University of Arizona did something different. He told black and white participants that the test was set up to measure some aspect of natural athleticism.

The psychologist said blacks performed much better on that test because they had heard blacks were good athletes.

But when the students were told the golf test was about intelligence, the scores of the black students dropped by 18 percent.

What we say so casually, so academically, sometimes becomes reality.


http://www.kentucky.com/mld/kentucky/living/15645377.htm

Malnutrition In Early Years Leads To Low IQ And Later Antisocial Behavior, USC Study Finds
Malnutrition in the first few years of life leads to antisocial and aggressive behavior throughout childhood and late adolescence, according to a new University of Southern California study.


"There's more to antisocial behavior than nutrition, but we argue that it is an important missing link," said Adrian Raine, a coauthor of the study.

"These are the first findings to show that malnutrition in the early postnatal years is associated with behavior problems through age 17," said Jianghong Liu, a postdoctoral fellow with USC's Social Science Research Institute and the lead author of the study published in the American Journal of Psychiatry's November issue.

"Identifying the early risk factors for this behavior in childhood and adolescence is an important first step for developing successful prevention programs for adult violence," she said.

For 14 years, researchers followed the nutritional, behavioral and cognitive development of more than 1,000 children who lived on Mauritius, an island in the Indian Ocean off the coast of Africa.

The sample of boys and girls included children with Indian, Creole, Chinese, English and French ethnicities.

Researchers assessed their nutrition at age 3, looking for four indicators in particular:

* angular stomatitis, or cracking in the lips and corners of the mouth that is caused by a deficiency of the B vitamin riboflavin; * hair dyspigmentation, a condition found primarily in tropical regions where children's hair takes on a reddish-orange color due to protein deficiency; * sparse, thin hair created by a deficiency in protein, zinc and iron; and * anemia, which reflects iron deficiency.

The children's intelligence level and cognitive ability were also tested, and social workers visited their homes to come up with a so-called adversity score that summarized factors such as the income, occupation, health, age and education levels of their parents and their overall living conditions.

At ages 8, 11 and 17 years, the researchers looked at how the children were behaving in school and at home.

At age 8, teachers gave feedback about whether the subjects were acting out in school with behavior ranging from irritability to picking fights with other children.

At age 11, the feedback came from parents who told researchers about whether their children lied, cheated, got into fights, bullied others, destroyed property or used obscene language.

At age 17, both parents and teachers reported on antisocial behavior such as stealing, drug use, destroying property or being deliberately cruel to others.

Over time, a link became evident between malnourishment and antisocial or aggressive behavior, said Adrian Raine, a co-author of the study and holder of the Robert Grandford Wright Professorship in Psychology in USC's College of Letters, Arts and Sciences.

Compared to those in the control group the group that did not suffer from nutritional deficiencies malnourished children showed a 41 percent increase in aggression at age 8, a 10 percent increase in aggression and delinquency at age 11 and a 51 percent increase in violent and antisocial behavior at age 17.

While social class did not play a significant factor in behavior, intelligence level did, Raine said.

"Poor nutrition, characterized by zinc, iron, vitamin B and protein deficiencies, leads to low IQ, which leads to later antisocial behavior," he said. "These are all nutrients linked to brain development."

Researchers also found that the more indicators of malnutrition there were, the greater the antisocial behavior.

The findings have implications for the United States, Raine said, where 7 percent of toddlers suffer from iron deficiency, a number that jumps to between 9 percent and 16 percent in adolescent and female groups.

Iron deficiency is between 19 percent and 22 percent in black and Mexican American females, he said.

"This is a problem in America. It's not just a problem in the far-away Indian Ocean," Raine said. "If it's causal, there's an intervention implication there. At a societal level, should parents be thinking more about what kids are eating?"

The study also casts antisocial behavior in a light where it may be preventable.

"There's more to antisocial behavior than nutrition, but we argue that it is an important missing link," Raine said. "Biology is not destiny. We can change the biological disposition to antisocial and aggressive behavior."

The other authors were Sarnoff A. Mednick, a professor of psychology in USC College and director of the USC Social Science Research Institute, and Peter H. Venables, a professor of psychology at the University of York, England.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2004/11/041117005027.htm

[Mayberry]

one of ABC's studies showed that women who watched a sexist ad about ditzy females scored 38 percent lower on a math test than women who didn't see it.
What a crock. If people are really that weak minded, we're in bigger trouble than I thought. But considering the source of the "study", it should all be taken with a grain of salt. "Studies" can be manipulated to a desired outcome quite easily. I don't put much stock in them. Malnutrition In Early Years Leads To Low IQ And Later Antisocial Behavior, USC Study Finds Again, consider the source. The University of Socialist Communism is by no means a credible source, especially on a subject like this one.

[Alonzo]

mayberry, neither one of those studies are the only example, and both concepts are well known in psychology.

Here's a very famous experiment done on expectations:

For more than 30 years, Professor Robert Rosenthal has conducted experiments on the power of expectations to influence performance and intellectual competence. Specifically, Dr. Rosenthal investigates the impact of interpersonal expectations on academic performance and competence. Here is a summary of one of his most famous experiments.

Oak School is a public elementary school with approximately 650 students. At the beginning of one school year, all of the students were pre-tested with a standard test of intelligence. The teachers were told that the test could predict "intellectual blooming" and predict which students would experience "spurts" of intellectual development.

Each of the 18 teachers at the school was given the names of those children in his or her class who would show "dramatic intellectual growth" in the academic year ahead. These predictions were allegedly made on the basis of these special students' scores on the test of "academic blooming."

About 20% of the Oak School students were identified as "potential bloomers."

The "special children" had actually been chosen randomly. The difference between the "special children" and the "ordinary children" was only in the minds of the teachers.

All of the Oak School students were retested with the same I.Q. test after one semester and again at the end of the year.

When the I.Q. scores of the "special students" and the "ordinary students" were calculated, both groups showed an improvement in total I.Q., verbal I.Q., and reasoning I.Q. But when the two groups were compared, 47% of the "special students" had gained 20 or more total I.Q. points, while only 19% of the "ordinary student" gained 20 or more total I.Q. points.

Research by Dr. Rosenthal and others clearly indicates that our expectations have a powerful effect on others and ourselves. These expectations influence our actions, attitudes, motivation, and perseverance.


http://www.baylor.edu/strengths/index.php?id=24455

The IQ's of Jamaican boys aged 6-10 were associated significantly with the presence or absence of severe malnutrition in infancy, with height at time of IQ testing, and with a measure of the boys' social background. A multiple correlation coefficient of 0.674 was obtained between IQ and the three factors. Social background contributed 0.294 of the variance, height 0.112, and severe malnutrition 0.049. The two extreme groups of boys, i.e., those malnourished, small at follow-up, and with unfavorable social backgrounds and those not malnourished, tall at follow-up, and with favorable social backgrounds had average IQ's of 49.4 and 74.9, respectively (from Table 5). Only two of the boys in the most advantaged group had IQ scores that overlapped with the most disadvantaged group. Boys with severe malnutrition in infancy, but who are tall at follow-up and have a favorable social background have an average IQ 11 points higher than boys who did not experience severe malnutrition, but who are short at follow-up and have a unfavorable social background. The difference in IQ between boys who did and did not experience severe malnutrition in infancy varies under different conditions of height and social background when those are held constant for both groups. Under the most favorable conditions of being tall and having an advantageous social history the average IQ of the malnourtished boys in only 2 points lower than those not malnourished. Unde the most unfavorable conditions of short stature and a disadvantageous social background the IQ of the malnourished boys is 9 points lower than those not malnourished (Table 6 and Fig. 1).


http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=942580&dopt=Abstract

Intellectual functioning at school age was studied in boys who had been severely malnourished during the first 2 years of life (index cases). IQ in these index cases was compared with that of male siblings closest in age and unrelated class mates or neighbors matched for sex and age (comparisons). Full Scale, Verbal and Performance IQs were lowest for the index cases. All IQ measures were significantly lower in the index cases than in the comparisons. Full Scale and Verbal IQ were significantly lower in the index cases than in the siblings. Siblings differed from comparison children only in Performance IQ. No association was found between the intellectual level of index cases and the ages at which they had been hospitalized for the treatment of severe malnutrition during the first 2 years of life.

http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/cgi/content/abstract/49/6/814

AUSTIN, Texas—Women’s math and spatial reasoning performance significantly improves when they are not worried about confirming negative gender stereotypes, University of Texas at Austin Assistant Professor Matthew McGlone reports in this month’s issue of the Journal of Applied Developmental Psychology.

Over the years, researchers have examined the contribution stereotypes make to differences in academic performance across ethnic and gender groups. It’s been demonstrated that the presence of “stereotype threat”—the risk of confirming a negative stereotype about one’s group, such as the stereotype that women perform poorly in math—can undermine the performance of even the most talented students.

“Frustrated by seeing many female and ethnic minority students do poorly on my statistics exams—despite appearing to master concepts in class, homework and in one-on-one interactions—I wanted to explore how much of their difficulty stemmed from the anxiety associated with being compared to other students and the prospect of confirming negative stereotypes,” said McGlone who conducted his research with Dr. Joshua Aronson, of New York University.

The myriad demonstrations of stereotype threat in college-aged students hinge on cues, such as a demographics question about ethnicity or gender—ascribed identities. Acknowledging that many aspects of personal identity are achieved—membership in social categories based on individual choices and achievements—rather than ascribed, McGlone contended that deficits in test performance caused by stereotype threat could be mitigated by instead cuing test takers to their achieved identity for which there are positive performance expectations.

He tested his hypothesis by priming different social identities among undergraduates prior to administering the Vandenberg Mental Rotation Test (VMRT), a standardized spatial reasoning test linked to math performance. The VMRT typically produces the largest documented gender difference in any cognitive ability, a difference that some academics have attributed to innate differences in intelligence favoring men.

McGlone and his colleagues asked male and female students at Lafayette College in Easton, Pa., to take the VMRT. Prior to the test, the participants completed one of three short questionnaires composed of six questions designed to cue a particular social identity: their residence in the northeastern U.S., their gender, or their status as students in a selective private college.

McGlone found that females who were primed to contemplate their identity as students at a selective private college performed at a significantly higher level on the VMRT than those primed to contemplate their gender or a test-irrelevant identity. In contrast, priming selective private college status among the male participants did not improve their performance. However, priming their gender status (men are better at math) did improve their performance.

“Based on these results, we argue that priming a positive achieved identity (selective private college student) can alleviate women’s anxiety about confirming the negative stereotype that ‘women can't do math,’” said McGlone. “When we primed this positive identity in men—for whom there is no negative stereotype regarding their math acumen—their performance was no better than when their gender was primed.”

These results suggest that scientific claims about large, innate gender differences in math and spatial reasoning ability may be premature.

“We were able to significantly reduce an allegedly large gender difference with a pretty simple manipulation,” said McGlone. “Regardless of whether the documented gender gap is due to biology or socialization, we can close it by psychological means.”

Applications of these findings might include eliminating subtle cues from math testing environments that might make gender identity issues salient to women and thereby impair their performance.

“Ideally, negative stereotypes associated with any social category—ascribed or not—should be eliminated,” said McGlone. “However, until that time students should consider focusing on the attainment of additional identities—those associated with positive academic expectations—as a means of improving academic performance.”



http://www.utexas.edu/opa/news/2006/09/communication20.html

Strange but true: Women score much lower on math tests if they are first asked unrelated questions about gender issues. The phenomenon is known as "stereotype threat" -- a kind of performance anxiety discovered in 1995 when psychologists found that black students at Stanford University did significantly worse on intelligence tests if they were first asked to identify their race on the test form.

Since then, dozens of other experiments have confirmed that subtly cuing women, minorities and other stigmatized groups to think subconsciously about their gender or race causes them do poorly in areas where the general stereotype suggests they are weak.

University of Texas psychologist Matthew S. McGlone wondered if there wasn't another side of the story. What if you prompted people to think about their strengths rather than their stereotypical weaknesses -- would that be enough to improve performance in areas where they weren't supposed to do well?

In a novel set of experiments, McGlone, working with Joshua Aronson of New York University, found that the answer is yes. "The idea that something is immutable due to some biological factor can be trumped," McGlone said.

Their ingenious study involved 90 undergraduate students, half men and half women, at Lafayette College, where McGlone taught. To hide the purpose of their experiments, they told the students they were going to be asked some questions as part of a study of living conditions on the Lafayette campus.

The questionnaire was composed of two parts. All the students answered one common set of general questions about campus life. In the second section, researchers varied the questions to prime these students to think in slightly different ways.

A third of the students were asked whether they lived in a single-sex or co-ed dorm. McGlone wanted to subtly trigger "thoughts about their experiences as a gendered person on campus." Previous studies found that even this seemingly benign question would unconsciously activate male and female stereotypes, McGlone said.

Another group answered questions about why they chose to attend a private liberal arts college. The goal was nudge these young women and men into thinking how smart and accomplished they were.

"We were activating their snob schema," McGlone chuckled.

The control group was asked to write about their experience living in the northeastern United States.

Then the researchers engaged in a bit of scholarly deception. After the students finished the questionnaire, McGlone asked them for a favor. "'I have a friend doing this study across the hall. Could you help us out?'" he asked. The students agreed, went to another classroom, and took Vandenberg Mental Rotation Test, a standard test of visual-spatial ability.

The items on this test consist of two-dimensional depictions of three-dimensional objects presented at various angles. Test-takers are asked to pick out the identical objects from dissimilar ones.

Studies have repeatedly found that men are far better than women at mentally rotating objects, a skill linked to math ability. The gender differences on this test are the biggest gender differences yet found on any of the various mental aptitudes that psychologists say comprise "intelligence," McGlone and Aronson write in an article summarizing their results in a forthcoming issue of the Journal of Applied Developmental Psychology.

Then McGlone looked to see if cuing people to think about their gender, their status as college students at prestigious private school or their experiences living in the northeast had any effect on their performance on the rotation test.

It did. Among those in the control group, the tests produced a familiar result: The men did 15 to 20 percent better on the Vandenberg test than the women. And among those who had been subtly cued to think about their gender, the gap was even wider-guys did "25 percent to 30 percent better than the women."

But the surprise came among those who were primed to think about their status as students at an exclusive private college. The gender gap closed dramatically as women's performance improved while men's did not change. "There was no significant difference between men and women," McGlone reported.

The results suggest that stereotype threat can be counteracted, at least in part, by cuing people about other aspects of their lives. "With a pretty simple manipulation we could significantly reduce this gap," he said. "There might be things that make all of these biological factors go away."



http://pewresearch.org/obdeck/?ObDeckID=58

[Mayberry]

Like I said, if people are really that weak minded, we're in trouble. I don't give a damn what anyone says to me, or thinks of me. I know that I will do well at whatever I want to do, or I'll go down trying. Anyone telling me I can't will get a one finger salute. All you need to be successful is to believe in yourself. Stereotypes, malnutrition, etc... may play a small part, but their correlation to IQ and behavior is purely coincidental. I've known many folks who were dirt poor and surely malnourished who were very intelligent, well adjusted people. Your parents' influence, genes, and your own sheer will are what determines how you turn out.

[DHard3006]

Exactly, thats why we need to work something out between the hard working illegal immigrants so we can focus on the criminals.
Typical leftist aka progressive logic. The 12 million or more hard working illegal aliens are the criminals and they need to be removed for being criminals. Criminals should not be rewarded for entering this country illegally.
There are more then enough hard working aliens that will obey the laws of America to enter this country to replace these illegal immigrants.

[Alonzo]

Like I said, if people are really that weak minded, we're in trouble.

We've come this far with it. We're capable of massive good and incredible evil.

I don't give a damn what anyone says to me, or thinks of me. I know that I will do well at whatever I want to do, or I'll go down trying. Anyone telling me I can't will get a one finger salute. All you need to be successful is to believe in yourself. Stereotypes, malnutrition, etc... may play a small part, but their correlation to IQ and behavior is purely coincidental.

That's a common belief, but seems mostly to be wishful thinking. I haven't seen much evidence to support that. And, not that it matters really, but my own observations don't support that either.

I've known many folks who were dirt poor and surely malnourished who were very intelligent, well adjusted people. Your parents' influence, genes, and your own sheer will are what determines how you turn out.


Which means what? That people aren't all the same? People behave and react differently in different circumstances. Some are luckier, more resilient or whatever.

[CheesyMuslim]

Exactly, thats why we need to work something out between the hard working illegal immigrants so we can focus on the criminals.
Typical leftist aka progressive logic. The 12 million or more hard working illegal aliens are the criminals and they need to be removed for being criminals. Criminals should not be rewarded for entering this country illegally.
There are more then enough hard working aliens that will obey the laws of America to enter this country to replace these illegal immigrants.





Sorry bout that,

1. But sure, there is 98 million people in the Philippines who would love to come here.
2. Well not all of them but lets say half of them.
3. This work force could fill these jobs, in a minute.

Regards,
SirJamesofTexas

[Anti-Racism]

Alonzo, your data is suspect. Artificial tests that are "like" IQ tests are subjective to the testing personnel.

[Alonzo]

There are multiple ways of testing intelligence and all have their downsides. IQ tests themselves have been accused of being biased, particularly culturally, but it's a lot better than it used to be. But considering your original claim of IQ's being higher here, and IQ being mostly genetic, I doubt you're going to start questioning the validity at this point.

But your comment doesn't make sense. The same tests are being given and the situation leading up to the test is what is different. The tests themselves aren't subjective here. And in most cases the test score itself isn't even the point, it's whether an increase or decrease results from experiencing certain things.

I can produce more tests, but considering your criticism doesn't really even apply in most, if not all, of these cases makes me not want to waste the time.

[Anti-Racism]

The same tests are being given and the situation leading up to the test is what is different.

That's not true. Read the abstracts of those studies again. A simplified test will give erroneous results, as would an artificially hard one.

There is plenty of evidence to the contrary.

To top it off:


A bleak picture of the corrosive effects of ethnic diversity has been revealed in research by Harvard University's Robert Putnam, one of the world's most influential political scientists.

His research shows that the more diverse a community is, the less likely its inhabitants are to trust anyone - from their next-door neighbour to the mayor.


http://www.ft.com/cms/s/c4ac4a74-570f-11db-9110-0000779e2340.html

[Alonzo]

Anti, the individuals in each study are recieving the same tests. They not subjective tests, they're not giving different tests in the study and then trying to match up results.

Also, your study also stated:

Prof Putnam stressed, however, that immigration materially benefited both the “importing” and “exporting” societies, and that trends “have been socially constructed, and can be socially reconstructed”

[CheesyMuslim]

Sorry bout that,

1. But is this a IQ debate or an Immigration debate?
2. My IQ is 133.
3. And I think that its not bad for some one who didn't even finish the 10th grade.
4. I went to work at a young age.

Regards,
SirJamesofTexas