Mohammed false Prophet

[lovely_girl_brunette]

Who would kneel before AllahÂ*Â*devoted to destroy a nation and wonderful beautiful PEOPLE of America whom muslims terrorists called Great Satan.Muslim mosque in america teaching hatred,twisting messages of Koran Sutra to justify their selfish behavior to murder innocent american people.WITHOUT A DOUBT,MUSLIMS WANT TO DESTROY AMERICA AND FOLLOW WHAT THEIR GOD ALLAH SAYS IN KORAN.TO MAKE PARADISE FREE INFIDELS ENVIRONMENT.Islam means REST AND PEACE, have no mercy,lack of faith to forgive believing a world be a better place with no Americans and Jews.This fake american muslims who raised and born in america still a sandal-wearing,gay hippie terrorists out to undermine the american way of life.To be a good muslims and have a close relationship with Allah for which be forever grateful convert to stupid islam.dont be hypocrite,speak up, I support America as great nation with Faith.America is the only nation in the whole world whose dollar bills says"IN GOD WE TRUST".but they dont use any religion to bring muslim terrorists to justice.Islam bring religion to America by planes with 19 assasins.this is american site, this is freedom of speech that being deprived to this muslims terrorists.Even I am not American by heart I feel one.You terrorists dont ever ever think I am CIA or Jews or American I speak the truth.GOD BLESS AMERICA!!!!!

[Danoz]

blah blah blah


So America has never been guilty of any wrongdoing IN GOD'S NAME? Right, whatever. Who appointed America as God's ambasidor to the world anyway? I thought that was Israel's job, and look what they've done to the Middle East over the years.

By the way the whole Under God thing was added in 1954, not on the origional pledge of allegance.

[askates]

ohhhhhhhh snap!

[MAP2010.wireless]

I feel it is our Job to protect Israel, If any country would Attach Israel I would Stand with Israel 100%.

Mark

[Newscaster]

MAP2010, You would stand up alongside Israel but unfortunately, it would not be because you love Jews and wish them well. You would stand up because of the scenario that when all the Jews of the world return to Israel, Jesus is going to return. Again it....I will do what I want as long as it benefits me. In this case, you believe the second coming will cause the apocalypse and all the faithful whos believe in Jesus will be lifted, body and all, into heaven. And Israel must survive in order for that to happen.
The fact that Israel and the Jews have survived despite the efforts of Christians to wipe them out and that includes the crusades (Christian inspired), the inquisition (Christian inspired), the holocaust (Christian inspired) and the continuing middle east assault on Jews by billions of arabs. And despite all of that Jews are still here and making one hell of a contribution to the good and welfare of the world despite being few in number.
You claim its your job to protect Israel. Okay. Here's how to do that. Stop attacking them. Stop blocking their entry into various and sundry organizations and clubs, stop referring to them as childsren. Remember, Jews were here long before Christians ever showed up and it took a Jew to teach you how to be Christians.

[Newscaster]

I dont know if any of you have noticed but in all of history, religion has NEVER ended a war but always seems to be around when they start. I heard a statement recently from a rather devout man who said it is becoming clear to him at least, that religion may not be healthy for children and all other living things. Faith is fine as an individual expression of self, but when you organize and begin deciding which religion is better than some other religion, "you've got trouble in River City."

[mumin]

The ignorance...

Please read your Bible and just try to adhere to it 100%. They would declare you a terrorist faster than you could say "Muslim". I have never heard a Muslim call the United States "the great satan" except in those stereotypical-Arab television sketches.

[Newscaster]

Mumin, the term Great Satan is not in the Bible nor is it in the Quorran. It is a term invented by the late Ayatollah Khomeini and he used it countless times to describe the United States. Since then, Iranians have used the term innumberable times as have other arab nations. And just in case you dont know....all stereotypes are based on reality.

[lovely_girl_brunette]

Mumim is another hypocrite muslim liar pretending no muslim ever called America "Great Satan".I read the Bible and it says "God loves the world,,that whoever believe in him will have everlasting life".The Bible dont condone blowing up Jews riding a bus or London sub-way bombing and 9-11 attack to get 72 virgins rewards in muslim paradise.this is american site defending terrorists mass murderer muslims is betrayal to good american people and Great President GEORGE W BUSH.This is not Al Jazeera and we dont tolerate muslim lies here.

STOP THE INSULTS! YOU WILL BE BANNED!

[Nitrus]

We all read the Bible, but it doesnt mean anything.

[mumin]

Mumim is another hypocrite muslim liar pretending no muslim ever called America "Great Satan".I read the Bible and it says "God loves the world,,that whoever believe in him will have everlasting life".The Bible dont condone blowing up Jews riding a bus or London sub-way bombing and 9-11 attack to get 72 virgins rewards in muslim paradise.this is american site defending terrorists mass murderer muslims is betrayal to good american people and Great President GEORGE W BUSH.This is not Al Jazeera and we dont tolerate muslim lies here.

STOP THE INSULTS! YOU WILL BE BANNED!


Actually, the Bible does condone murder. Compare how many violent verses the Bible contains and compare it to the Qur'an. You'll be hard pressed to find more verses in the Qur'an that condone violence compared to the Bible.

There is NO mention of "72 virgins" in the Qur'an. I guess if the Qur'an condones that, then your Bible condoned the killing and/or forced conversion of Jews and Muslims during the Inquisition, the murder of all the residents of Jerusalem during the crusades (Jews, Muslims, and Arab CHRISTIANS included), the KKK (who seek a white Christian America), National Alliance (who seek a white Christian America), the Nazis (who sought a white Christian Europe), those nutcases who blow up abortion clinics and kill the doctors...the list goes on and on. Your religion is evidently not the religion of love and peace.

Funny how you, having evidently not even seen Al Jazeera, can draw up conclusions. You don't have to go far outside the United States to see what Al Jazeera's normal broadcast contains.

[Newscaster]

Mumin, the bible does NOT condone murder. There is killing written about in the bible but murder is a strict no-no. And whether the Quoran condones it or not is not the problem. The problem is that radical muslims think murder is fine and thats why they use that act to further political and national aims. It would seem to me that if murder by anyone is to be stopped, it must be stopped by those who do not condone it. Does that group include you? If it does, get off your duff and stop the radicals.

[mumin]

Mumin, the bible does NOT condone murder. There is killing written about in the bible but murder is a strict no-no. And whether the Quoran condones it or not is not the problem. The problem is that radical muslims think murder is fine and thats why they use that act to further political and national aims. It would seem to me that if murder by anyone is to be stopped, it must be stopped by those who do not condone it. Does that group include you? If it does, get off your duff and stop the radicals.

The Bible does condone murder. Just Google "Bible Murder". You'll get a few hits.

I do not agree with those who kill and do as they please in the name of Islam, but I guess most Americans don't hear of any action taken by Muslims taken to counter this. For example, there's this ridiculous claim going around mostly conservative/libertarian circles that no Muslim condemned the 9/11 attack, which is a blatant lie.

The problem is, these violent idiots (which are found in every religion) hardly listen to the majority. They simply live in their own world, where at every corner, they feel persecuted or attacked...and that's just in a Muslim country! Bin Laden, for example, was an outcast. He's even been disowned by the Salafi/Wahhabi clerics of Saudi Arabia. I personally don't know of any radical Muslims (last I checked, no one was in favor of beheading non-Muslims, so I guess that's safe). There aren't many radical Muslims in North America as compared to Europe, since the US nor its politicians are doing anything legally to restrict our rights - the case is drastically different in Europe. Persecution does breed radicalism. For example, Britain hasn't really been friendly towards the Muslims. Those who felt pushed went insane and went through with the 7/7 tube bombings. Note that there has been no terror attack perpetrated by an American Muslim.

As long as there is no persecution of Islam (especially by elected officials) in the United States, I think you'd be hard pressed to find a radical Muslim in America.

[Newscaster]

Mumin, you must learn to interpret what you read and not accept everything at face value. I Googled Bible Murder as you suggested and the first website was "Evil Bible.Com". Obviously this was a website by one who wants nothing to do with the bible and therefore thinks everything in it is bad. The other sites, which I did not bother to read, if they believe the bible is bad, are those who dont believe. But believing and understanding are two different things. Yes, the bible does have some stories that are violent but you must ask......why. Those stories are in their not to make the bible a history book but to teach lessons that can be learned thru study of the stories. You, I would guess, do not study the bible. You may give it a cursory scan but your level of understanding cannot be high if you think the bible condones murder. I believe you would agree one of the ten commandments is...Thou Shalt Not Murder. That right there should give you a clue about the Bible's attotide about murder.
You truly need to take a course in Bible Study and it can be by a priest, minister or rabbi. They will tell you the same thing......the Bible exists to teach morality. It is not a history book. Most of the things people believe happened, never did but are in the bible for teaching purposes.

[Elrathin]

I believe you would agree one of the ten commandments is...Thou Shalt Not Murder. That right there should give you a clue about the Bible's attotide about murder.


Not really because the term "murder" does not apply to holy wars in the bible anymore than it includes wars we have today according to Christians.

[Newscaster]

In the Bible, there is a difference between murder and killing. Did David Murder Goliath or did he kill or slay him? Holy wars are no more murder than any unholy war. Soldiers kill. In my time in military service, I may have killed hundreds or thousands but I am not a murderer because the killing was in war time. But if I walked up to a guy on the street and stuck a knife in his back, I could not walk away from that as I could in wartime and the victim was th enemy. You cannot equate killing in wartime with murder, except I guess if you are on the receiving side. And the, the cry of murder is an emotional one, not a legal one.

[Waffletush]

Not really because the term "murder" does not apply to holy wars in the bible anymore than it includes wars we have today according to Christians.

Murder is a term that defines an illegal killing.Â*Â*In general, killing in war is not murder as it is sanctioned. Thus why the King James versions of the Bible are open for scrutiny as they say "Thou shall not kill" - period, when the others say "Thou shall not murder".

Big difference.

[Elrathin]

In general, killing in war is not murder as it is sanctioned.


And that includes holy wars.

[mumin]

In the Bible, there is a difference between murder and killing. Did David Murder Goliath or did he kill or slay him? Holy wars are no more murder than any unholy war. Soldiers kill. In my time in military service, I may have killed hundreds or thousands but I am not a murderer because the killing was in war time. But if I walked up to a guy on the street and stuck a knife in his back, I could not walk away from that as I could in wartime and the victim was th enemy. You cannot equate killing in wartime with murder, except I guess if you are on the receiving side. And the, the cry of murder is an emotional one, not a legal one.

Apparently, 'murder' seems to be a subjective term. Let's just replace it with 'kill' since no religious text could actually get away with saying "Go murder so and so".

You invite me to a Bible study group, yet I have so far shown that I know more about your Bible than you know about my Qur'an (I have debated with Christians before when they have slandered my religion, a common occurrence online). You ask me to 'interpret' your Bible to understand it, but no matter how you put it, many things will continue to perplex me (the Trinity, for example). The reverse should be the case. Christians should be studying the Qur'an from Islamic sources rather than search for people like Daniel Pipes or whatshisname who runs jihadwatch.com or whatshername who runs hotair.com for guidance. Also, you shouldn't trust those on the fringes of Islam, such as her holy gayness Irshad Manji or his holy (or rather unholy, since he at least declared himself an apostate) 'I like to date and do an Indian model after Indian model and I don't care!' Salman Rushdie (I don't think most Christians would recommend to heathens to learn about Christianity from a gay priest, would they?).

Now that I have that out, can you please 'interpret' Leviticus 20:9-21 for me? I have the American favorite, King James Version here:

9For every one that curseth his father or his mother shall be surely put to death: he hath cursed his father or his mother; his blood shall be upon him.

10And the man that committeth adultery with another man's wife, even he that committeth adultery with his neighbour's wife, the adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be put to death.

11And the man that lieth with his father's wife hath uncovered his father's nakedness: both of them shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.

12And if a man lie with his daughter in law, both of them shall surely be put to death: they have wrought confusion; their blood shall be upon them.

13If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.

14And if a man take a wife and her mother, it is wickedness: they shall be burnt with fire, both he and they; that there be no wickedness among you.

15And if a man lie with a beast, he shall surely be put to death: and ye shall slay the beast.

16And if a woman approach unto any beast, and lie down thereto, thou shalt kill the woman, and the beast: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.

17And if a man shall take his sister, his father's daughter, or his mother's daughter, and see her nakedness, and she see his nakedness; it is a wicked thing; and they shall be cut off in the sight of their people: he hath uncovered his sister's nakedness; he shall bear his iniquity.

18And if a man shall lie with a woman having her sickness, and shall uncover her nakedness; he hath discovered her fountain, and she hath uncovered the fountain of her blood: and both of them shall be cut off from among their people.

19And thou shalt not uncover the nakedness of thy mother's sister, nor of thy father's sister: for he uncovereth his near kin: they shall bear their iniquity.

20And if a man shall lie with his uncle's wife, he hath uncovered his uncle's nakedness: they shall bear their sin; they shall die childless.

21And if a man shall take his brother's wife, it is an unclean thing: he hath uncovered his brother's nakedness; they shall be childless.
Source: BibleGateway.com

Blasphemy is punishable by death (in your Bible, it was Moses (pbuh) himself who supposedly received the commandment to kill those who blaspheme Leviticus 24:10-16).

Also, just a question in passing: how many Christians follow the 10 commandments a 100%? Isn't one of the commandments commanding you to not take God's name in vain? Well, that commandment is commonly broken. Might as well break others, right? Another commandment is regarding adultery, yet that happens every day. Bearing false witness? Money is louder than the Bible these days. Honoring the parents? In many areas, this is barely adhered to. Stealing, coveting goods/wives, etc. are also mostly dependent on personality rather than obedience to the Bible.

And suddenly, so many Christians have a strong case against homosexuality or stem cell research, when their own ten commandments are not adhered to, even by them.

Elrathin brings up a good point. I do not accept the Bible, but if you do, what is your case against those who perform acts of terrorism but label it jihad? They believe they're waging war so what they're doing would also be categorized under "kill" rather than murder.

[Labrocca]

Damn the man knows his stuff. Welcome mumin to DemocracyForums.com. I hope you become a strong contributing member. We could use someone with conservative educated Muslim view.

Can you start an intro thread and tell us more about yourself?

[Newscaster]

Just as beheading and cutting off of hands and other extremities is considered okay by Muslims and theor Quoran, so is the death penalty considered okay by the bible. But punishment that is condoned by the community is a lot different than murder. Mumin knows that very well but insists that the bible is bloodthirsty and the Quoran is not. He must remember that the Torah, the Jewish Bible, is the first such book ever to exist. It was written as the pagan era began its disapperance. During that era, when people who believed in Gods, worshipped multiple Gods and pretty much made up the rules as they went along. So, when a book like the Bible comes along, the people are still feeling the effects of earliers practices that take time to fade away. That the Bible still contains such passages is not evidence that they are practiced. It is evidence that people consider the Bible Holy and not to be tampered with. The Jewish method of punishment was stoning. That faded away long ago. Among Muslims, such practices continue....stoning, beheading, amputations, etc. And today..,...IEDs. So, I think its wise to stop and think before casting aspersians on people or tradition, practiced or not.

[mumin]

Just as beheading and cutting off of hands and other extremities is considered okay by Muslims and theor Quoran, so is the death penalty considered okay by the bible. But punishment that is condoned by the community is a lot different than murder. Mumin knows that very well but insists that the bible is bloodthirsty and the Quoran is not. He must remember that the Torah, the Jewish Bible, is the first such book ever to exist. It was written as the pagan era began its disapperance. During that era, when people who believed in Gods, worshipped multiple Gods and pretty much made up the rules as they went along. So, when a book like the Bible comes along, the people are still feeling the effects of earliers practices that take time to fade away. That the Bible still contains such passages is not evidence that they are practiced. It is evidence that people consider the Bible Holy and not to be tampered with. The Jewish method of punishment was stoning. That faded away long ago. Among Muslims, such practices continue....stoning, beheading, amputations, etc. And today..,...IEDs. So, I think its wise to stop and think before casting aspersians on people or tradition, practiced or not.

See, there's the difference. If the Bible is not to be tampered with, and it commands stoning (and other absurdities, such as you can get away with rape as long as you pay the father of the woman and get married or if the woman's scream isn't heard when she's being raped, she is considered guilty and should be stoned as well), then who told you not to practice those commands? Who are you or your rabbis/priests to go against what God commanded?

Those punishments are better than torture, that's for sure. And they are effective, too. Otherwise, you'd see a lot more dismembered people walking around Muslim countries. All these punishments are to be performed in public and that does act as a detriment. Unlike how capital punishment is practiced in the US and other countries, where only a handful of people are witness to the horrific act, in Islam those practices are done in front of crowds and that does work.

Of course this all happens after due process, unlike other religions where people are found guilty by popular opinion (do I need to remind you of the way Jesus (pbuh) was sentenced to death or how some people burned those accused of being a witch during colonial periods?).

What about divorce? Islam allows for divorce and Christianity does not, according to your own scriptures. A woman is to be stoned to death if she's not a virgin on her wedding night (Deuteronomy 22:20-21), so no hope for widows or divorcees to get remarried. Oh, I guess that doesn't apply anymore, since divorces come flying left and right in the United States.

The entire thing about 'not practicing' isn't my problem. What if some Christians or Jews started following through with God's commandments that they think are in their Bible/Gospels? Would you call them nuts simply because they're following their religion, which just happens to be your own?

[CheesyMuslim]

Sorry bout that,

1. But I tend to agree with Newscaster on this one.
2. There isn't no way to condone what Islam is doing, and does every day.
3. Simply Barbaric.
4. No other way to call it.

Regards,
SirJamesofTexas

[mumin]

Sorry bout that,

1. But I tend to agree with Newscaster on this one.
2. There isn't no way to condone what Islam is doing, and does every day.
3. Simply Barbaric.
4. No other way to call it.

Regards,
SirJamesofTexas

Why do you pick and choose what to respond to?

Can you give me a reason as to why the punishments prescribed in the Bible aren't adhered to? Isn't that disobeying God?

You call that barbaric then tell me. Do you agree with capital punishment? If you do, go tell a liberal that capital punishment is good and he'll say you're barbaric. Or tell an Atheist about the benefits of circumcision and he'll call you barbaric.

Those practices work and have proven themselves to be effective throughout time in Muslim countries.

Oh, I'd also like to see these everyday happenings. When I was in Saudi Arabia in the Eastern Province (many Americans live there...and they do get alcohol and pork in their areas), I had never seen these occur, even though the location of where this was supposed to happen was within 5 minutes of my house. They were always empty.

I never heard of any criminal reports either. No robberies, breakins, homicides, etc. were ever on the news. There was this one story about a murder in the 7 years I was there, but that wasn't near where I lived.

[CheesyMuslim]

Sorry bout that,

1. But with public murders everyday, how can anyone keep count?
2. "My daughter was raped", Stone her,........
3. "My wife was bad to me today",....Stone her,.......
4. "My neighbor is a Jew supporter",....Stone him,......
5. When everyone is being killed, all that's needed is a set up, then let the rocks fly!!!
6. Public murders do count as murder.

Regards,
SirJamesofTexas

[lily]

Chess........if those are everyday happenings, it shouldn't be hard to post a link.

[mumin]

Sorry bout that,

1. But with public murders everyday, how can anyone keep count?
2. "My daughter was raped", Stone her,........
3. "My wife was bad to me today",....Stone her,.......
4. "My neighbor is a Jew supporter",....Stone him,......
5. When everyone is being killed, all that's needed is a set up, then let the rocks fly!!!
6. Public murders do count as murder.

Regards,
SirJamesofTexas

I had never even HEARD of a stoning case.

Also, you AGAIN selectively responded to my post. Did you miss my post about the many, many supposed crimes that are punishable by stoning, according to your bible? Oh, and there isn't even anything about holding trials or having accountability, whereas the Qur'an and the Hadith lay out complex legal procedures; expanding upon the Hadith and Qur'an that is done by scholars is codified, when consensus is reached, into the Shari'ah; everything is interpreted into law EXCEPT direct commands; so if the Qur'an were to contain any of those stoning verses that the bible lays stake to - without even setting conditions - then yes, you'd see Muslims stoning people left and right. Entire cities would just have a huge rock dropped on them to have the punishment process made easier.

I guess I have to start a rock collection so I have enough ammo the next time someone looks at me funny.

[lovely_girl_brunette]

Sir James of Texas make his Intellectual ideas again.Newscaster seems not a black sheep as he speak with guts,courage and honesty.Mumin believe what your Koran sutra teaching.Koran says all Muslim loves american and no muslim ever called america "Great Satan" as your not aware of this global term uses by muslims against Infidels.for sure you never heard muslim calling Troops overseas Infidels.Thanks for nothing mumin.Onething I know muslim known as Liars as they even blame The Great President GEORGE W BUSH as the one who was in the plane during 9-11 attack.before I get "BANNED" mumin tell all muslim terrorists if you hate America..go home.America don't need terrorists.Respect is earned not demanded I will respect your ideas if your honest to yourself and speak the truth about islam.

[Elrathin]

LGB, I have one word for you and only one.......PROZAC.

[CheesyMuslim]

Sorry bout that,

1. But there is way to many injustices to cover in Islam.
2. A whole site could be made to expose it.
3. I for one wouldn't want to waste the time.
4. Islam is so backwards, and intolerant, there is no way in hell for a rational sane person to ever be able to clearly defend it.
5. It is a crushing religion, and crushes the souls of who ever walks past those thresholds of its doors.
6. One common everyday occurrence,, when a man gets sick of one of his many wives, he can say to her, "I divorce you, I divorce you, I divorce you", and she is a cast away.
7. Then some times they waltz her to the soccer field and blow her brains out, making it final, and without any financial support.
8. And don't tell me this doesn't happen, it does.
9. And its classic Islam, barbaric, and self defeating of its followers.
10 And a crime against humanity, all rolled into a stinking hairy ball of cr@p.
11. I use visual descriptions as means to further explain my point, not to inflame.


Regards,
SirJamesofTexas

[CheesyMuslim]

Sorry bout that,

1. But well said Lovely Girl Brunette.
2. You said a mouth full girl!
3. Yes these Islamics will disguise their hateful religion to guide the fools towards their own eternal damnation.
4. Its a Unholy crime what they do.

Regards,
SirJamesofTexas

[lily]

Sorry bout that,


3. Yes these Islamics will disguise their hateful religion to guide the fools towards their own eternal damnation.


Regards,
SirJamesofTexas


I don't know chess........you seem to be doing a fine job of showing how hateful Christianinty is........fine job!

[NortheastCynic]

It's incredible to me that anyone can start an entire thread based on a generalization that is by definition racist. Once you start a sentence with "All muslims..." what comes next will be BS, sorry.

-NC

[Buck Laser]

It's incredible to me that anyone can start an entire thread based on a generalization that is by definition racist. Once you start a sentence with "All muslims..." what comes next will be BS, sorry.

-NC


Yup.

[Newscaster]

Mumin, you are so hung up on the commandments that are cpontained in the Torah, some of which are quite violent in nature. But you must remember one thing.....the Jewish religion has given up those particular commandments long ago. They are ignored simply because they ARE violent and that times have changed a great deal since they were first written and no longer reflect modern say thinking. Beheadings, amputations and the other cute little things that Muslims still to this day use for punishmentment should have been similarly ignored and trashed but that never happened. The Saudis still behead people. Thieves still have their hands cut off. Rape victims are still blamed for the crime. Revenge killing still goes on in muslim countries. You know thats true Mumin. Admit it and instead of pointing fingers, cleanup your own backyard and join the rest of the world in the 21st century.

[Buck Laser]

Mumin, you are so hung up on the commandments that are cpontained in the Torah, some of which are quite violent in nature. But you must remember one thing.....the Jewish religion has given up those particular commandments long ago. They are ignored simply because they ARE violent and that times have changed a great deal since they were first written and no longer reflect modern say thinking. Beheadings, amputations and the other cute little things that Muslims still to this day use for punishmentment should have been similarly ignored and trashed but that never happened. The Saudis still behead people. Thieves still have their hands cut off. Rape victims are still blamed for the crime. Revenge killing still goes on in muslim countries. You know thats true Mumin. Admit it and instead of pointing fingers, cleanup your own backyard and join the rest of the world in the 21st century.


Newscaster, the fact that some of these extreme forms of "justice" still occur in Muslim countries is unavoidable. But I think we also have to recognize that the idea that "rape is the woman's fault" still has some currency in this country. A Texas Republican gubernatorial candidate lost his bid to be elected a few years ago because he observed that a woman being raped should "just lie back and enjoy it."

Once we start talking about backwardness and cruelty in religious codes, there are some pretty primitive and harsh beliefs held within Christianity as well. When one faith group tries to make another look bad, it ALWAYS degenerates into a pissing contest.

[underdawg]

Newscaster said

Mumin, you are so hung up on the commandments that are cpontained in the Torah, some of which are quite violent in nature. But you must remember one thing.....the Jewish religion has given up those particular commandments long ago. They are ignored simply because they ARE violent and that times have changed a great deal since they were first written and no longer reflect modern say thinking. Beheadings, amputations and the other cute little things that Muslims still to this day use for punishmentment should have been similarly ignored and trashed but that never happened. The Saudis still behead people. Thieves still have their hands cut off. Rape victims are still blamed for the crime. Revenge killing still goes on in muslim countries. You know thats true Mumin. Admit it and instead of pointing fingers, cleanup your own backyard and join the rest of the world in the 21st century.


That is a very interesting comment that you made Newscaster. The Jewish religion has voluntarily given up on certain commandments and ignore because the people realize that they are outdated and do not reflect the thinking of modern times. Christians who believe in the literal interpretation of the entire Bible have apparently ignored such commandments themselves, yet when it comes to homosexuality, they always tend to point back to the Old Testament. They tend to pick and choose which commandments suit them best.

Mumin, I think your posts were pretty awesome in pointing out the hypocrisy that exists within Christianity today. The west tends to judge all of Islam as being evil without even trying to understand it. Most Christians don't even seem to understand their own religion. Personally, I don't think that people should ever have any type of religion rule over any country. The good thing about this country so far is that we have a separation of church and state. I am very glad that the Bible or the Koran are not the ultimate law of the land in this country.

[Newscaster]

Gentlemen, with those last posts, I shall back out of this debate. Arguments about religion are as poisonous as they come and result in nothing but insults, bad fellings, all the way to full scale war. So, have a nice day and try not to make too many enemies.

[mumin]

chesswarsnow:

It really makes me wonder why the growth of Islam boomed after 9/11 in the United States. People must be pretty weak minded to convert to a religion whose adherents just killed 3000 innocent people or a religion that is so backwards but attracted the educated masses! I guess all those converts must be hopped up on drugs or were in that 'rebellion' phase of their life that they converted to Islam. You know, just as an alternative to cutting themselves.

And this trend is happening in the most educated nations, unlike Christianity, which has been known to prey on the weak and vulnerable people for converts. Of course, if I went to one of those impoverished villages with food, clothing, medicine, etc. and told the locals to believe in whatever weird story I can concoct, they would believe me without questioning.

One of the first groups to be sent to Iraq along with the troops were MISSIONARIES. People who lived under a tyrant would surely give up their religion for Christian bribery, right? I guess that didn't work out when the insurgency erupted.

On the other hand, percentage of Christians is decreasing in the US. Islam is one of the fastest growing religions in America, if not the fastest. Guess what other religion is beating Christianity in growth? WICCA. I guess Christians who burned witches let them get away with just 1st degree burns.

[CheesyMuslim]

Sorry bout that,

1. But the reason if its true more people are swallowing down the lies of Islam, is there is a dividing going on.
2. Satan is claiming souls.
3. Before the big hoe down.
4. I say let anyone who wants to follow a deadly religion go.
5. If you feel lucky, you go on down there and check it out.
6. A word of advise thou, invest in some asbestos underwear.
7. Time waits for no one, when its all over.

Regards,
SirJamesofTexas

[mumin]

Sorry bout that,

1. But the reason if its true more people are swallowing down the lies of Islam, is there is a dividing going on.
2. Satan is claiming souls.
3. Before the big hoe down.
4. I say let anyone who wants to follow a deadly religion go.
5. If you feel lucky, you go on down there and check it out.
6. A word of advise thou, invest in some asbestos underwear.
7. Time waits for no one, when its all over.

Regards,
SirJamesofTexas

Oh well. I'm waiting for the rapture. We'd lose quite a few bigots when that happens. Quite a satisfying thing before I'm sent to hell for following a 'deadly religion'. :)

[CheesyMuslim]

Sorry bout that,

1. But you would say that.
2. There's time if you repent.
3. But that's your choice.

Regards,
SirJamesofTexas

[mumin]

Repent for what? My original sin? Oh, that thing which I had no part in but am still blamed for? That's the reason why Christ supposedly died, right?

I'll pass. :)

[CheesyMuslim]

Sorry bout that,

1. If you wish.
2. Its done.
3. But do invest in asbestos underwear!

Regards,
SirJamesofTexas

[Elrathin]

You sure have a thing about other people's underwear Chess :D

[lovely_girl_brunette]

Well,said again from Sir James of Texas.Mumin make choices following deadly cult not new.When you commit martyrdom "mumim" you have no good memory but another typical muslim terrorists attack.changes will begin at you,to make me believe islam is not rest and peace open your heart speak with courage,compassion most of all L-O-V-E.mumin your ridiculous nonsense literal translations of twisted facts doesn't help your cause you fighting for.Some moderator here even tolerating your insults again Christians and Pro Bush but not me.well,I speak the Truth your not helping islam cult but making more anti-islam.Boogyman sending me too much warning points that I believe a way to get rid of me soon.I maybe banned here for good but til i can post my message I will.

[lily]

lovely_girl_brunette

mumin your ridiculous nonsense literal translations of twisted facts doesn't help your cause you fighting for.

I don't see how you can call history or knowledge of Islam twisted facts, lovely girl.

Boogyman sending me too much warning points that I believe a way to get rid of me soon.I maybe banned here for good but til i can post my message I will.

Then please try and post without insults. It gets tiring following you around and editing the insults out of your posts.

[lovely_girl_brunette]

lily, you earned my Respect I believe you.maybe I'm wrong or maybe I don't see it that way.Moderator like you is why most people here stays using a Magic Word "Please".I'm proud telling DF admin to keep you is a big ++++++ factor.tell newbies moderator to be fair,balance,not judgmental,cool headed and most of all "NO Power Trip".

[Danoz]

Be forwarned... This is a rant and a half!


Mumim is another hypocrite muslim liar pretending no muslim ever called America "Great Satan".I read the Bible and it says "God loves the world,,that whoever believe in him will have everlasting life".The Bible dont condone blowing up Jews riding a bus or London sub-way bombing and 9-11 attack to get 72 virgins rewards in muslim paradise.this is american site defending terrorists mass murderer muslims is betrayal to good american people and Great President GEORGE W BUSH.This is not Al Jazeera and we dont tolerate muslim lies here.

STOP THE INSULTS! YOU WILL BE BANNED!




You know, you're right. It doesn't support killing of Jews. But it does support the systematic genocide of the Ammorites, the Jebusites, the Amilikites, the Perisites and just about anybody else living in or surrounding Canaan.

You know what the really terrible thing is? It doesn't say anywhere that they should stop. That means that they have a divine command to kill anybody living in their country not of Abrahamic decent, or who has not been circumsised. And you know, they'd better do it - or else god will have a field day on them... Have a read what god did to Saul when he didn't wipe out the ENTIRE Amalekite nation and thier livestock. I think it's in Samuel 13 from memory.

Anyway, if you want to take the bible (or the old testament anyway) literally then you must also hold these views. Christians try to water the bible down with their rediclulous theology of a second dispensation while they still claim that god does not change, but jews really have no excuse. Maybe that's why there are allot more christians that take the bible literally than jews i.e. beacuse they get to cherry pick the laws they like.

Back to the topic, orthodox islam is totally and completely screwed up, but so is orthodox christianity and orthodox judaism. Monotheistic religion in particular is a desease that is tearing our world appart by the seams, but nobody seems to care about truth anymore - it's just about idealism. Why face the harsh facts of evolutionary biology when we can settle for a far more conforting fable? Those facts are in fact not so harsh when you envisage the world through the eyes of somebody like Carl Sagan.

We are moving backwards at a rediculous pace, and if something is not done to shine the light of reason on this world I will bet my life that we will annihilate each very soon. I used to think that it was OK to be religious, but I realise now that it is NOT OK in the same sence that it is not ok to be a racist, bigot or a subscriber to any other form of chauvinism. Of course it is (and should always be) your right to hold any view you wish, but I still find it to be offensive in the highest degree, because it cherrishes the childish instinct to believe in what you cannot test, and to rejoice in your ignorance (or faith as it is called by some) It not only cherrishes it, but it condemns and perscutes those that oppose its tyrany of free thought, and often times speech. Should it be tolerated? Yes. Like I believe prostitution should be tolerated. Should it be approved of? No, like I believe prostitution should not be approved of.

I am a very placid person, not given to passion, but over the years I have not only lost my faith, but have gained a true hatred of its subtly perverse nature. I now see that the real devil lies not only in superstition, but those that allow it to flourish. If you are ignoring the problem because you feel it is not your buisiness to interfere with other people's faith, then maybe you should be more vocal when a mormon pops up on your door at 6am on Saturday morning trying to interfere with your persional beliefs (or lack of them). Better yet, ask them for their home address so that you may look them up on that next Sunday morning, and force feed them some literature of your own. I suggest "The origin of species" by Charles Darwin.

http://video.google.com.au/videoplay?docid=4427973382931109727&q=john+safran
(John Safran is actually agnostic - he just loves pushing the right buttons)


Think about it...

[Elrathin]

Back to the topic, orthodox islam is totally and completely screwed up, but so is orthodox christianity and orthodox judaism. Monotheistic religion in particular is a desease that is tearing our world appart by the seams, but nobody seems to care about truth anymore - it's just about idealism. Why face the harsh facts of evolutionary biology when we can settle for a far more conforting fable? Those facts are in fact not so harsh when you envisage the world through the eyes of somebody like Carl Sagan.

We are moving backwards at a rediculous pace, and if something is not done to shine the light of reason on this world I will bet my life that we will annihilate each very soon.

VERY Good points there.


I used to think that it was OK to be religious, but I realise now that it is NOT OK in the same sence that it is not ok to be a racist, bigot or a subscriber to any other form of chauvinism.

Sorry gonna have to disagree with you here. Some people do some VERY charitable things due to their religion and whether or not you believe in it or not, they do and help people because of it in some cases.


and to rejoice in your ignorance (or faith as it is called by some) It not only cherrishes it, but it condemns and perscutes those that oppose its tyrany of free thought, and often times speech.

I know quite a few people that practice their religion without pushing their agenda on other people. If you are talking about the extremists, then yes I agree with you there, but unfortunately, what you say does not apply to all people that have faith.


I am a very placid person, not given to passion, but over the years I have not only lost my faith, but have gained a true hatred of its subtly perverse nature. I now see that the real devil lies not only in superstition, but those that allow it to flourish.

Again, I think your experiences seem to show that you have dealt with quite a few agenda pushers, where I have dealt with more people that are content following their religion without pushing an agenda issue.


If you are ignoring the problem because you feel it is not your buisiness to interfere with other people's faith, then maybe you should be more vocal when a mormon pops up on your door at 6am on Saturday morning trying to interfere with your persional beliefs (or lack of them). Better yet, ask them for their home address so that you may look them up on that next Sunday morning, and force feed them some literature of your own. I suggest "The origin of species" by Charles Darwin.

I don't bother, I just ask them if they would like to come in so I can discuss with them their TRUE lord and savior Satan. That usually gets them out quick and haven't seen any come around since. :D


http://video.google.com.au/videoplay?docid=4427973382931109727&q=john+safran
(John Safran is actually agnostic - he just loves pushing the right buttons)


Funny video, I watched it on youtube about 3 weeks ago and got a kick out of it :)

[Danoz]

Back to the topic, orthodox islam is totally and completely screwed up, but so is orthodox christianity and orthodox judaism. Monotheistic religion in particular is a desease that is tearing our world appart by the seams, but nobody seems to care about truth anymore - it's just about idealism. Why face the harsh facts of evolutionary biology when we can settle for a far more conforting fable? Those facts are in fact not so harsh when you envisage the world through the eyes of somebody like Carl Sagan.

We are moving backwards at a rediculous pace, and if something is not done to shine the light of reason on this world I will bet my life that we will annihilate each very soon.

VERY Good points there.


I used to think that it was OK to be religious, but I realise now that it is NOT OK in the same sence that it is not ok to be a racist, bigot or a subscriber to any other form of chauvinism.

Sorry gonna have to disagree with you here. Some people do some VERY charitable things due to their religion and whether or not you believe in it or not, they do and help people because of it in some cases.


and to rejoice in your ignorance (or faith as it is called by some) It not only cherrishes it, but it condemns and perscutes those that oppose its tyrany of free thought, and often times speech.

I know quite a few people that practice their religion without pushing their agenda on other people. If you are talking about the extremists, then yes I agree with you there, but unfortunately, what you say does not apply to all people that have faith.


I am a very placid person, not given to passion, but over the years I have not only lost my faith, but have gained a true hatred of its subtly perverse nature. I now see that the real devil lies not only in superstition, but those that allow it to flourish.

Again, I think your experiences seem to show that you have dealt with quite a few agenda pushers, where I have dealt with more people that are content following their religion without pushing an agenda issue.


If you are ignoring the problem because you feel it is not your buisiness to interfere with other people's faith, then maybe you should be more vocal when a mormon pops up on your door at 6am on Saturday morning trying to interfere with your persional beliefs (or lack of them). Better yet, ask them for their home address so that you may look them up on that next Sunday morning, and force feed them some literature of your own. I suggest "The origin of species" by Charles Darwin.

I don't bother, I just ask them if they would like to come in so I can discuss with them their TRUE lord and savior Satan. That usually gets them out quick and haven't seen any come around since. :D


http://video.google.com.au/videoplay?docid=4427973382931109727&q=john+safran
(John Safran is actually agnostic - he just loves pushing the right buttons)


Funny video, I watched it on youtube about 3 weeks ago and got a kick out of it :)


Thanks for an honest read. Like I said, it was a rant... and somewhat of a vent too. I've been going slightly crazy lately from many of the christians around me trying to make me feel that I'm somehow a bad person for not believing or at least not making gross consessions for their faith whilst they do nothing of the sort for others around them. Being the son of a fundamentalist chistian minister (whist still living at home) takes its emotional toll on an agnostic let me assure you! The worst part is that I am not free to speak my mind at home or I am told to shut up (with rather dire circumstances if I don't). I feel like my mind is encaged by evil mascarading as good, and it's been this way my WHOLE life. I can't wait to move out because I'm loosing respect for my parents whom I love dearly despite their shortcomings.

My point in my rant was not to insult or defame ALL christians (there are some good ones out there), but really to express my utter frustration at the illogical yet intensly stubborn attitudes held by the vast magority, and the completely unmeritted respect that is given towards their moral, theological, and, let's face it - political opinions over those of everybody else.

Anyway, I have to go eat dinner, so I'm gonna head off.