Rove ignores subpoena, refuses to testify on Hill

[tecoyah]

I am becoming a bit disgusted with the blatant disregard for our Laws coming out of this administration.

Perhaps it IS time to get nasty!

Rove ignores subpoena, refuses to testify on Hill

By BEN EVANS, Associated Press

WASHINGTON - Former White House adviser Karl Rove defied a congressional subpoena and refused to testify Thursday about allegations of political pressure at the Justice Department, including whether he influenced the prosecution of a former Democratic governor of Alabama.
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Rep. Linda Sanchez, chairman of a House subcommittee, ruled with backing from fellow Democrats on the panel that Rove was breaking the law by refusing to cooperate — perhaps the first step toward holding him in contempt of Congress.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/rove_subpoena

[potter]

Really Tecoyah...who's gonna do anything about it? Harriet Myers and Gonzalez were both subpoena'd to testify and they thumbed their noses too. Nobody did a damn thing about it. :unreal:

[tecoyah]

Really Tecoyah...who's gonna do anything about it? Harriet Myers and Gonzalez were both subpoena'd to testify and they thumbed their noses too. Nobody did a damn thing about it. :unreal:


I understand that, what I am saying is perhaps it's time someone DID do something about it...even though they will get a serious GOP bashing when they do!

[potter]

I understand that, what I am saying is perhaps it's time someone DID do something about it...even though they will get a serious GOP bashing when they do!


Who ya gonna call? Pelosi? Reed? Anybody in the Justice department?

I agree..it's time someone did....the only people I know willing to do it are listed in the Bill of Rights. :fight::fight::fight:

[Osborn F. Enready]

Both parties have made a mockery of Congressional Investigation, and their duties as congress reps overall.

They have no responsibility anymore, by design.

[lily]

Eh........sure I'll sit down and talk to you......what I won't do is swear under oath or have it on record. (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/25622771/)

Rove ignores subpoena, refuses to testify



Rove ignores subpoena
July 10: Former White House adviser Karl Rove has ignored a subpoena
to testify in front of Congress about allegations of political pressure at
the Justice Department. MSNBC's Mike Viqueira reports. MSNBC





WASHINGTON - Former White House adviser Karl Rove defied a congressional
subpoena and refused to testify Thursday about allegations of political
pressure at the Justice Department, including whether he influenced the
prosecution of a former Democratic governor of Alabama.

Rep. Linda Sanchez, chairman of a House subcommittee, ruled with backing
from fellow Democrats on the panel that Rove was breaking the law by
refusing to cooperate — perhaps the first step toward holding him in
contempt of Congress.

Lawmakers subpoenaed Rove in May in an effort to force him to talk about
whether he played a role in prosecutors' decisions to pursue cases against
Democrats, such as former Alabama Gov. Don Siegelman, or in firing federal
prosecutors considered disloyal to the Bush administration.



Rove had been scheduled to appear at the House Judiciary subcommittee
hearing Thursday morning. A placard with his name sat in front of an empty
chair at the witness table, with a handful of protesters behind it calling
for Rove to be arrested.

Possible contempt charge
A decision on whether to pursue contempt charges now goes to the full
Judiciary Committee and ultimately to House Speaker Nancy Pelosi.

House Republicans called Thursday's proceedings a political stunt and said
if Democrats truly wanted information they would take Rove up on an offer he
made to discuss the matter informally.

The House already has voted to hold two of President Bush's confidants in
contempt for failing to cooperate with its inquiry into whether the
administration fired nine federal prosecutors in 2006 for political reasons.

The case, involving White House chief of staff Josh Bolten and former White
House counsel Harriet Miers, is in federal court and may not be resolved
before Bush's term ends in January.

The White House has cited executive privilege, arguing that internal
administration communications are confidential and that Congress cannot
compel officials to testify.

Rove says he is bound to follow the White House's guidance, although he has
offered to answer questions specifically on the Siegelman case — but only
with no transcript taken and not under oath.

Democrats have rejected the offer because the testimony would not be sworn
and, they say, could create a confusing record.

Rove has insisted publicly that he never tried to influence Justice
Department decisions and was not even aware of the Siegelman prosecution
until it landed in the news.

Siegelman — an unusually successful Democrat in a heavily Republican state —
was charged with accepting and concealing a contribution to his campaign to
start a state education lottery, in exchange for appointing a hospital
executive to a regulatory board.



He was sentenced last year to more than seven years in prison but was
released in March when a federal appeals court ruled Siegelman had raised
"substantial questions of fact and law" in his appeal.

Siegelman and others have alleged the prosecution was pushed by GOP
operatives — including Rove, a longtime Texas strategist who was heavily
involved in Alabama politics before working at the White House. A former
Republican campaign volunteer from Alabama told congressional attorneys last
year that she overheard conversations suggesting that Rove pressed Justice
officials in Washington to prosecute Siegelman.

The career prosecutors who handled Siegelman's case have insisted that Rove
had nothing to do with it, emphasizing that the former governor was
convicted by a jury.

[micfranklin]

Bastard.

[potter]

What is it with this administration...nothing in writing, nothing under oath.

The only reason not to testify under oath is because your gonna lie.

[December]

So why they say that America is democratic country when the crooks like Rove are running the government?

[Buck Laser]

Both parties have made a mockery of Congressional Investigation, and their duties as congress reps overall.

They have no responsibility anymore, by design.
This isn't really about political parties at all. It's about a struggle for power between the Legislative and Executive branches of government. Bush and his predecessors have been usurping power that rightly belongs to the legislature for a long time, and it's time to redress that balance.

It's sad that republicans won't or can't go along with enforcing the subpoena, because it's in the interest of the congress to recapture its powers. It's clear that you hate the parties, but this is about basic constitutional stuff. I'd hoped you'd understand that.

[Buck Laser]

I don't know who posted first, but we've got duplicate threads here.

[NIOSA]

What arrogance!! Do all politicians believe they're exempt from the rules the rest of us have to follow? :mad:

[ptif219]

Sounds to me like a democrat kangaroo court.Separation of powers anyone?

[suedanim]

First... he's a guilty sob with a lot to hide besides from this issue. He doesnt want to be put under oath cause then he gonna get asked questions about other stuff... like Plame.

Second.... slap him with a contempt charge.

Who the fuck is HE? He's just a worm, mudslinging henchman (which is why he works for Fox now). He was not elected to any office nor is he especially brilliant.

[Buck Laser]

Sounds to me like a democrat kangaroo court.Separation of powers anyone?
You clearly don't understand the separation and balance of powers, ptif. During the last 8 years, the executive branch has usurped vast amounts of power that should by rights and the constitution belong to the legislative branch. The republicans in congress who are letting Rove get away with this are cutting off their noses to spite their faces.

Both congress and the executive branches will have to work out the imbalances of power that have occurred, largely owing to the machinations of Rove and his band of thieves. Even with the supermajority the democrats will probably have in January, redress of the balance of powers will be a sticky thing, but it has to be done. Many of the powers of the executive branch were siphoned away in the wake of the Nixon debacle, but from Reagan on, presidents have been grabbing bits and pieces here.

As I pointed out in the other thread on this same topic, this isn't a partisan thing at all.

[NoMoreDems-Reps]

Rove, Cheney, & Bush :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VqomZQMZQCQ

Must be nice to be above the law.

[preservanation]

Good for you, Karl.
There is a reason the term "Scootered" is in the Political Lexicon.
No reason to perpetuate the miscarriage of justice the leftists have in store for you.
OMG...I love that man!
:kiss:

[NIOSA]

Sounds to me like a democrat kangaroo court.Separation of powers anyone?

When Billzeebubba Clinton claimed executive privelege to keep some of his aids from testifying, the republican congress went nuts. I said the same thing about Clintons aids ignoring congressional subpeonas as I'm saying about Bush aids now.
Whether it's a kangaroo court or not, Rove was issued a subpeona, it is not his perogative to not show up.
I'm fed up with all of these powdered & perfumed muciferous wallydraggles thinking they are above the law!!

[NIOSA]

First... he's a guilty sob with a lot to hide besides from this issue. He doesnt want to be put under oath cause then he gonna get asked questions about other stuff... like Plame.

Second.... slap him with a contempt charge.

Who the fuck is HE? He's just a worm, mudslinging henchman (which is why he works for Fox now). He was not elected to any office nor is he especially brilliant.

How do you know he's guilty? Isn't that what the hearing is for, to try to find answers?

[preservanation]

I'm fed up with all of these powdered & perfumed muciferous wallydraggles thinking they are above the law!!LOL.
Pos rep for that alone!

[cronic]

when you refuse a subpoena.. dont ya like.. get arrested or something bad?

[Muser]

I'm fed up with all of these powdered & perfumed muciferous wallydraggles thinking they are above the law!!

BAH!ahahahahaha! :madlaugh:Classic! I'm seriously tempted to pay homage by quoting you in my sig line.

It does call to mind the Internet's infamous "Shakespearean Insult Generator", the result of which I share now as a tribute to you, NIOSA, and because it totally fits the subject of this thread:

Rove is a loggerheaded, flap-mouthed, knotty-pated canker-blossom!

[lily]

I don't know who posted first, but we've got duplicate threads here.

Thanks Buck.......merged.

[preservanation]

when you refuse a subpoena.. dont ya like.. get arrested or something bad?Not in this case, unless Pelosi wants to push a constitutional crises.
I doubt the SCOTUS will even consider it.
The have ruled in the past to uphold that part of our system which designates executive powers.
Even they can understand that we have three distinct branches which have been designated to separate powers.
It would be nice to keep it that way, as our founders intended...thank you very much.

[tecoyah]

Not in this case, unless Pelosi wants to push a constitutional crises.
I doubt the SCOTUS will even consider it.
The have ruled in the past to uphold that part of our system which designates executive powers.
Even they can understand that we have three distinct branches which have been designated to separate powers.
It would be nice to keep it that way, as our founders intended...thank you very much.


Can you honestly say (with a straight face)....the actions and uses of this power have not become abuse?

[preservanation]

Can you honestly say (with a straight face)....the actions and uses of this power have not become abuse?Yes...In this case.
I don't know what else to tell you.

[lily]

Not in this case, unless Pelosi wants to push a constitutional crises.
I doubt the SCOTUS will even consider it.
The have ruled in the past to uphold that part of our system which designates executive powers.
Even they can understand that we have three distinct branches which have been designated to separate powers.
It would be nice to keep it that way, as our founders intended...thank you very much.

I think the same way too.......not to take this off topic, but I can't pass up a snark........but didn't Cheney change that?

Back on topic..........Pelosi won't do shit. I'm considering praying that Clinton takes over with a coup.

[preservanation]

I'm considering praying that Clinton takes over with a coup.Me to.

Can I get A Hallelujah?

[lily]

First... he's a guilty sob with a lot to hide besides from this issue. He doesnt want to be put under oath cause then he gonna get asked questions about other stuff... like Plame.

He'd get a pardon.

Second.... slap him with a contempt charge.

.....if only!

He'd just ignore that anyway.........even if they did get him under oath, he'l have that memory problem that seems to be aflicting the White House.

Who the fuck is HE? He's just a worm, mudslinging henchman (which is why he works for Fox now). He was not elected to any office nor is he especially brilliant.

Hey.......he feels free to talk about anything he wants to on Fox......maybe if they paid him, he'll come in?

[NIOSA]

BAH!ahahahahaha! :madlaugh:Classic! I'm seriously tempted to pay homage by quoting you in my sig line.

It does call to mind the Internet's infamous "Shakespearean Insult Generator", the result of which I share now as a tribute to you, NIOSA, and because it totally fits the subject of this thread:

Rove is a loggerheaded, flap-mouthed, knotty-pated canker-blossom!

Pleased that I could amuse you. :D
Canker blossom? You don't do so bad yourself.

[NIOSA]

LOL.
Pos rep for that alone!

Old wimmen say strange stuff, n'ah'm an old wimmen. :sadly:

[NIOSA]

when you refuse a subpoena.. dont ya like.. get arrested or something bad?

I think that only pertains to us peons.

[apdst]

I wouldn't submit to a political witch hunt, either.

[Easy90]

I am becoming a bit disgusted with the blatant disregard for our Laws coming out of this administration.

Perhaps it IS time to get nasty!



http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/rove_subpoena

Yeah I hear ya. I mean! Damned Constitution and that stupid "Separation of Powers" nonsense! What do these Republicans think they are doing?

Of course, in reality...the Dems are just trying to get even because they had a Dem governor get caught taking bribes (what's new about that?)...and they think Rove had something to do with his being outed. LOL! Ah politics...and the stupid Democrats! Gotta love it!

[ptif219]

They couldn't get him for the Plame scam.It still frustrates me they got Scooter and never touched Armitage.This is what I mean by a Kangaroo court.

[potter]

Not in this case, unless Pelosi wants to push a constitutional crises.
I doubt the SCOTUS will even consider it.
The have ruled in the past to uphold that part of our system which designates executive powers.
Even they can understand that we have three distinct branches which have been designated to separate powers.
It would be nice to keep it that way, as our founders intended...thank you very much.


But wasn't Rove just a presidential political adviser? He never was a part of the official cabinet was he?

[lily]

But wasn't Rove just a presidential political adviser? He never was a part of the official cabinet was he?

Well Potter......in the case that we are talking about, Bush said he knew nothing about it......so Rove couldn't possibly have anything to say that would be considered privileged .........but then neither could any of the others that have refused.

[tecoyah]

Rove holds no official position within the executive cabinet, yet is being protected by executive powers. What I ask you...is to stop the president from protecting anyone who has information damning to his position from testifying if we allow this to be accepted practice?

Will we then allow Obama to let his Muslim advisor to avoid testifying after the destruction of the statue of liberty on Dec 11, 2010?

[Milton Bradley]

This isn't really about political parties at all. It's about a struggle for power between the Legislative and Executive branches of government. Bush and his predecessors have been usurping power that rightly belongs to the legislature for a long time, and it's time to redress that balance.

It's sad that republicans won't or can't go along with enforcing the subpoena, because it's in the interest of the congress to recapture its powers. It's clear that you hate the parties, but this is about basic constitutional stuff. I'd hoped you'd understand that.


I, like Osborn, disagree.


See, it takes a bunch of like minded criminals to sit on their hands while their contemporaries ignore their oath of office, and do nothing about these transgressions.


That where "party politics" comes into play here. Both parties want to stack the courts with their own brand of appointees, and "legislate from the bench" Judges.

[lily]

I, like Osborn, disagree.


See, it takes a bunch of like minded criminals to sit on their hands while their contemporaries ignore their oath of office, and do nothing about these transgressions.


That where "party politics" comes into play here. Both parties want to stack the courts with their own brand of appointees, and "legislate from the bench" Judges.

Unless I'm not understanding this correctly.........one party wants to uphold their oath and get the facts, yet the other party refuses supeonas.

[ptif219]

Unless I'm not understanding this correctly.........one party wants to uphold their oath and get the facts, yet the other party refuses supeonas.

No,One party has been trying to find a way to get Rove for 6 years and time is short. :thumbsup:

[Milton Bradley]

Unless I'm not understanding this correctly.........one party wants to uphold their oath and get the facts, yet the other party refuses supeonas.


Is that an attempt at humor?


I mean sure, if you only watch for a short time, you might be able to fool yourself into believing such a thing, but I assure you, if you elect another Democrat, you'll see the same thing, the parties just switch roles.

[NIOSA]

I wouldn't submit to a political witch hunt, either.

Witch hunt or not, he was subpeoned & to just say pfffft to that is also breaking the law. We don't have the option of which laws we break & which ones we obey, not without the risk of punishment anyway.
The Clinton WH used the same arguments you are using, that Bush is using, it didn't fly then & I hope it doesn't fly now.

[NIOSA]

They couldn't get him for the Plame scam.It still frustrates me they got Scooter and never touched Armitage.This is what I mean by a Kangaroo court.

I agree with that 100%.

[lily]

Witch hunt or not, he was subpeoned & to just say pfffft to that is also breaking the law. We don't have the option of which laws we break & which ones we obey, not without the risk of punishment anyway.
The Clinton WH used the same arguments you are using, that Bush is using, it didn't fly then & I hope it doesn't fly now.

They'll just use stall tactics until their time runs out.

[lily]

Is that an attempt at humor?


I mean sure, if you only watch for a short time, you might be able to fool yourself into believing such a thing, but I assure you, if you elect another Democrat, you'll see the same thing, the parties just switch roles.

Yeah, I know.......vote Ron Paul, he is the only one that can save us!:rolleyes:

[Pookie]

Yet another reason to be disgusted with this administration. Do we really expect honesty or abiding by laws from this administration? Bah!
Purrs,
Pookie

[Phyxius]

Will we then allow Obama to let his Muslim advisor to avoid testifying after the destruction of the statue of liberty on Dec 11, 2010?


http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a176/Hasatude5150/Misc/strawman2.jpg

[ECW]

Witch hunt or not, he was subpeoned & to just say pfffft to that is also breaking the law. We don't have the option of which laws we break & which ones we obey, not without the risk of punishment anyway.
The Clinton WH used the same arguments you are using, that Bush is using, it didn't fly then & I hope it doesn't fly now.

Clinton people showed up when subpoened. Rove has no legal reason not to show up. There is a jail in the basement of the Capitol, I hope the Democrats decide to use it this time.

Arrest him on a Friday afternoon and keep him over the weekend. A few days behind bars will teach Turdblossom a lesson in civics he won't soon forget.

[Phyxius]

Clinton people showed up when subpoened. Rove has no legal reason not to show up. There is a jail in the basement of the Capitol, I hope the Democrats decide to use it this time.

Arrest him on a Friday afternoon and keep him over the weekend. A few days behind bars will teach Turdblossom a lesson in civics he won't soon forget.


http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a176/Hasatude5150/Misc/rove_frog-march_fotoshawpt.jpg

[jose]

¨Karl Rove refused to appear before the House Judiciary Committee to testify about the politicization of the Justice Department, despite a subpoena. During the hearing, Rep. Chris Cannon (R-UT) revealed that Rove had not only skipped out of the hearing, but had skipped out of the entire country¨
http://thinkprogress.org/2008/07/10/rove-avoids-subpoena-by-fleeing-the-country/
I wonder where he went?

¨Benjamin Netanyahu may hire former White House adviser Karl Rove.¨
http://jta.org/cgi-bin/iowa/breaking/108952.html

[Osborn F. Enready]

Thinking ANY type of JUSTICE will come from Congressional hearings or Senate investigations is tragicly naieve....

When you ask criminals to investigate themselves, how could you POSSIBLY arrive at justice?

[Milton Bradley]

Yeah, I know.......vote Ron Paul, he is the only one that can save us!:rolleyes:


Actually, he's out of the race, so he's out.


But that's still no reason to put the bipartisan revolver to your temple, and pull the trigger.

[Osborn F. Enready]

Milton said:
But that's still no reason to put the bipartisan revolver to your temple, and pull the trigger.

Well said....

[lily]

¨Karl Rove refused to appear before the House Judiciary Committee to testify about the politicization of the Justice Department, despite a subpoena. During the hearing, Rep. Chris Cannon (R-UT) revealed that Rove had not only skipped out of the hearing, but had skipped out of the entire country¨
http://thinkprogress.org/2008/07/10/rove-avoids-subpoena-by-fleeing-the-country/
I wonder where he went?

¨Benjamin Netanyahu may hire former White House adviser Karl Rove.¨
http://jta.org/cgi-bin/iowa/breaking/108952.html

It pains me to do this.....but to be fair, he didn't flee the country, the article states he was out of town on a scheduled trip....he wouldn't give up that big Fox paycheck.

[jose]

It pains me to do this.....but to be fair, he didn't flee the country, the article states he was out of town on a scheduled trip....he wouldn't give up that big Fox paycheck.
NO he left the Country
¨ on July 10, he refused to acknowledge his congressional subpoena. Instead, he left the country on an unannounced trip¨
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karl_Rove

[potter]

When you ask criminals to investigate themselves, how could you POSSIBLY arrive at justice?


Spot on! :thumbsup:

[jose]

¨Four Iowans were arrested today while attempting to make a Citizens' Arrest of Karl Rove in Des Moines, Iowa. Citing Iowa Code provisions for making Citizen's Arrests as well as citing Federal Statute violations they claimed Rove had violated, the four were stopped at the gate of the Wakonda Country Club in Des Moines where Rove was scheduled to speak at a Republican Fundraiser.

The four arrested were retired Methodist minister and Peace and Justice Advocate, Rev. Chet Guinn, 80, as well as three Des Moines Catholic Workers, Edward Bloomer, 61, Kirk Brown, 25, and Mona Shaw, 57. All four were cited for trespassing and released.

The four maintained that they were acting within the guidelines of Iowa Code that obligate private citizens to make such an arrest if they believe a felony has been committed and turn Rove over to police officials to bring Rove before a judge for formal indictment. By law, a federal judge should consider the charges and determine if an indictment should be made.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=389&topic_id=3676951
Do you think the Police overstepped by arresting but not charging the citizens?

[Milton Bradley]

¨Four Iowans were arrested today while attempting to make a Citizens' Arrest of Karl Rove in Des Moines, Iowa. Citing Iowa Code provisions for making Citizen's Arrests as well as citing Federal Statute violations they claimed Rove had violated, the four were stopped at the gate of the Wakonda Country Club in Des Moines where Rove was scheduled to speak at a Republican Fundraiser.

The four arrested were retired Methodist minister and Peace and Justice Advocate, Rev. Chet Guinn, 80, as well as three Des Moines Catholic Workers, Edward Bloomer, 61, Kirk Brown, 25, and Mona Shaw, 57. All four were cited for trespassing and released.

The four maintained that they were acting within the guidelines of Iowa Code that obligate private citizens to make such an arrest if they believe a felony has been committed and turn Rove over to police officials to bring Rove before a judge for formal indictment. By law, a federal judge should consider the charges and determine if an indictment should be made.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=389&topic_id=3676951
Do you think the Police overstepped by arresting but not charging the citizens?


Indeed, this seems a travesty of justice.


Just shows whos side most cops are on. :shame:

[preservanation]

Indeed, this seems a travesty of justice.


Just shows whos side most cops are on. :shame:The public...who have a right not to be accosted by left-wing loons...or any other wacked out goofballs.

BTW...they wanted to be arrested..."To be silent when major crimes are being committed against all humanity makes us accomplices," Gwinn told reporters just before his prearranged arrest, which took place when protestors stepped past a gate.http://www.reuters.com/article/domesticNews/idUSN2537776420080725?feedType=RSS&feedName=domesticNews&rpc=22&sp=true

[tecoyah]

The public...who have a right not to be accosted by left-wing loons...or any other wacked out goofballs.

BTW...they wanted to be arrested..http://www.reuters.com/article/domesticNews/idUSN2537776420080725?feedType=RSS&feedName=domesticNews&rpc=22&sp=true

So...American Citizens trying to enforce the law are "Wacked out Goofballs", and the man who not only broke the law, but may possibly be undermining the basis for enforcing those laws should be allowed to do so.

It's a Sad Day in America, when people can simply snub their nose at the Constitution. These folks were trying to make that point.

[preservanation]

The dozen accosting trespassers were UPHOLDING the law that they themselves admitted to breaking?
That's a stretch....

[tecoyah]

The dozen accosting trespassers were UPHOLDING the law that they themselves admitted to breaking?
That's a stretch....

Nope...they broke the law, and were justly apprehended.

What about Rove?

[preservanation]

What about Rove?
Just because one perceives wrong doing, and that's all it is...a perception, doesn't give the left carte blanch to break the law and infringe on other people's rights.
Or does it?

[tecoyah]

What about Rove?
Just because one perceives wrong doing, and that's all it is...a perception, doesn't give the left carte blanch to break the law and infringe on other people's rights.
Or does it?

I see.....Ignoring an order to appear before the United States Congress is now considered a "Perception of Wrongdoing"...Cool, I can ignore any summons I get.

[preservanation]

If there is no indictment...yes you can.
See, that's the law and it's there to protect your rights under the constitution.
Otherwise you could be dragged before any judicial or legislative body willy nilly for no reason whatsoever, except for a "perception".
Without proof or indictment...that's not kosher.

[tecoyah]

If there is no indictment...yes you can.
See, that's the law and it's there to protect your rights under the constitution.
Otherwise you could be dragged before any judicial or legislative body willy nilly for no reason whatsoever, except for a "perception".
Without proof or indictment...that's not kosher.


I see, so it's ok to avoid testifying when you are not charged. And, its ok to undermine the investigation that might lead to that charge by...not testifying. Pretty cool, the way our justice system works. Basically, what you are implying is that one can ignore court requested testimony (a summons), and therefore block an investigation legally. I wonder why anyone ever bothered pleading the 5th in the first place.

I understand you will not discuss the problems associated with Karl Roves refusal, let alone the Executive Privilege issue....I would be amazed if you did. But, at the very least an admission that by refusing to appear, Rove indicates he has something to hide would be nice.

As for getting dragged to court based on perception...it's called testifying, and its actually a valuable aspect of our justice system. The "Proof" or "Idictment" usually follow the testifying Willy Nillyness.

[preservanation]

Rove is smart not to enter that den of Spanish Inquisitors and be subjected to a witch-hunt just to get Scootered.

[tecoyah]

OK....Now I understand more clearly.

You honestly believe it is acceptable to circumvent our system of Criminal Justice.


Please....never accuse anyone of Fascism, being a traitor, or acting Un-American.

[preservanation]

This is politics.
It has nothing to do with justice.

[Elrathin]

It has everything to do with justice, but since it is Rove, Republicans and conservatives give him a free pass to break any law he wants to. Pathetic

[preservanation]

It has everything to do with justice, but since it is Rove, Republicans and conservatives give him a free pass to break any law he wants to. PatheticOkay...what law?
I kinda expect an answere this time.
And not his refusal to testify either...a real law pertinent to the request for him to testify.

[tecoyah]

Okay...what law?
I kinda expect an answere this time.
And not his refusal to testify either...a real law pertinent to the request for him to testify.

When conducting investigations of the executive branch, congressional committees and Members of Congress generally receive the information required for legislative needs. If agencies fail to cooperate or the President invokes executive privilege, Congress can turn to a number of legislative powers that are likely to compel compliance. The two techniques described in this report are the issuance of subpoenas and the holding of executive officials in contempt. These techniques usually lead to an accommodation that meets the needs of both branches. Litigation is used at times, but federal judges generally encourage congressional and executive parties to settle their differences out of court.

Subpoenas:

The Supreme Court has described the congressional power of inquiry as “an essential and appropriate auxiliary to the legislative function.”The issuance of a subpoena pursuant to an authorized investigation is “an indispensable ingredient of lawmaking.”

The Contempt Power

When the executive branch refuses to release information or allow officials to testify, Congress may decide to invoke its contempt power. Although the legislative power of contempt is not expressly provided for in the Constitution and exists as an implied power, as early as 1821 the Supreme Court recognized [it.] . . If either Housevotes for a contempt citation, the President of the Senate or the Speaker of the House shall certify the facts to the appropriate U.S. Attorney, “whose duty it shall be to bring the matter before the grand jury for its action.” Individuals who refuse to testify or produce papers are subject to criminal contempt, leading to fines and imprisonment.

[ECW]

Except that this AG refuses to follow the law. He refuses to call a grand jury. The Congress should issue a warrant for Rove's arrest and nail his ass the next time he appears in Washington or on Fox. This photo would get a frame at my house if they did.

http://uglyrepublicans.com/republicans/United-States/Karl-Rove/karl_rove_arrest.jpg

[jose]

Congress should issue a warrant for Rove's arrest and nail his ass the next time he appears in Washington

http://uglyrepublicans.com/republicans/United-States/Karl-Rove/karl_rove_arrest.jpg
Nail his ass??? He gets his ass nailed EVERY time he´s in washinton ask Jeff gannon
http://www.thetruthseeker.co.uk/article.asp?ID=2826
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/02/18/opinion/lynch/main675050.shtml

[Pookie]

Except that this AG refuses to follow the law. He refuses to call a grand jury. The Congress should issue a warrant for Rove's arrest and nail his ass the next time he appears in Washington or on Fox. This photo would get a frame at my house if they did.

http://uglyrepublicans.com/republicans/United-States/Karl-Rove/karl_rove_arrest.jpg

Yeah, really. I can't agree more. It seems that certain members of this administration seem to be above the law, and that is totally wrong, IMHO. You're in the Administration, you should be setting the example of good conduct and fairness. I am disappointed in many members of this administration.
Purrs,
Pookie

[NortheastCynic]

Thinking ANY type of JUSTICE will come from Congressional hearings or Senate investigations is tragicly naieve....

When you ask criminals to investigate themselves, how could you POSSIBLY arrive at justice?
Exactly. It would be very nice to have a permanent, independent Federal investigator/oversight position. However, doing so would require a Constitutional amendment and the support of the very people who would be held accountable by such an office.

Until there is widespread outrage over the usurpation of the law, nothing will be done.

-NC

[tecoyah]

Exactly. It would be very nice to have a permanent, independent Federal investigator/oversight position.

-NC

Yeah...some Kind of General Attorneys office to investigate and prosecute the highest levels of Government...what a novel Idea.

Now, we would need some way to keep it from getting corrupted, some kind of...I don't know...maybe a system of checks and balances.

[preservanation]

Okay...what law?
I kinda expect an answere this time.
And not his refusal to testify either...a real law pertinent to the request for him to testify.

...Nothing


Again what's the crime?
I am very disappointed.

Ignoring a subpoena to testify in violation of the separation of powers was the White Houses doing not Roves.
Rove can't claim executive privilege on his own.

What crime has Rove committed that has you all is such a lather?

[tecoyah]

No One can know if he has committed a crime unless he testifies...thats the whole point of the subpoena. By denying the congress access it is impossible to press any charges at all...I would hope you understand this, but you asked for clarification. I also understand you seem to think bypassing the justice system (at least in this case) is acceptable. I think this is where we truly disagree, No One Is Above The Law.

[preservanation]

No One can know if he has committed a crime unless he testifies....So there is no underlying crime.
Thank you.

How would you like to be called in front of a judicial body without any evidence of a crime?
You'd have a fit as so would I...and rightfully so.

[tecoyah]

Actually, you and I seem quite different in this regard. I would of course, testify as required by law and expect to have my innocence found through this testimony. While I know the system is not perfect, I feel it is better than a breakdown of the flawed system (anarchy) and so will do as society requires.

You seem to feel this extremely important part of the system can be bypassed if you don't like it, and thus are in opposition to the entire system of Justice we have in the United States. Good Luck with that............

Unfortunately, you are not under the cloak of those in power, and will be held in contempt of the court just before you become a ward of the state, and live off my taxes for a couple years.

[preservanation]

Actually, you and I seem quite different in this regard. I would of course, testify as required by law and expect to have my innocence found through this testimony. .That's not the way our system works...Jeeeeze.
The law cannot "require" you to testify to a charge against you without an indictment (proof or testimony to a crime) nor can we be compelled to witness against ourselves.
I really can't believe this sometimes.

That is a big difference between you and me.
I cherish my constitutional right not to be held to answere to a crime without indictment.
Read the fifth amendment.

I sure don't want to bring back Salem, circa 1692.
That's exactly what all this is.

[tecoyah]

That's not the way our system works...Jeeeeze.
The law cannot "require" you to testify to a charge against you without an indictment (proof or testimony to a crime) nor can we be compelled to witness against ourselves.
I really can't believe this sometimes.

That is a big difference between you and me.
I cherish my constitutional right not to be held to answer to a crime without indictment.
Read the fifth amendment.

I sure don't want to bring back Salem, circa 1692.
That's exactly what all this is.

I understand well, the 5th as well as the implications this holds for the Constitution. A summons is not intended to replace indictment, as it is merely a means of investigation and not a trial.
Rove has not been charged with anything, but is required to adhere to the request for investigation and testify accordingly, as are You, me , and anyone who is an American Citizen. If we allow people to dodge this civic responsibility our system becomes compromised, Surely you can see that?

If indeed he had been indicted, thats a different ball game, and we would expect hard evidence to be in the charges filed against him. As it is, he may be facing an indictment with serious felony charges that cannot be disputed...Contempt Of Court. Likely though, Executive power will force a supreme court decision...what a waste, when any innocent man would simply have complied.

[preservanation]

any innocent man would simply have complied."If you're so innocent what are you afraid of...?"
Sounds like the Spanish inquisition.
Ask Libby

BTW, the White House claimed executive priv, not Rove.

[tecoyah]

"If you're so innocent what are you afraid of...?"
Sounds like the Spanish inquisition.
Ask Libby

BTW, the White House claimed executive priv, not Rove.

One...Libby was proven guilty due to his inability to prove he was not guilty, and thus was forced to lie under oath. The system did what it could under the circumstances, as it could not prove his guilt under initial charges (which most rational people accepted as accurate, and Libby did not show otherwise...I wonder why that is?).

Two...I am not afraid, because I am innocent, Rove is afraid because he likely is not. The Administration protects him out of further fear, as they have much to lose should he testify. You support Bush and Co. thus do not wish to see them fall, and so support the obvious corruption of our system.

Your little Spanish Inquisition comment is akin to a Hitler reference, and has done nothing but weaken your case.

[preservanation]

One...Libby was proven guilty due to his inability to prove he was not guiltyAgain, I don't know what system you are operating in, but it is not the American judicial one.

[lily]

Preservation.........let me see if I'm understanding what you are defending.

Rove may or may not have had a hand in the firing of US attorneys.......and this may or may not have to do with an innocent, or not man sitting in jail.......but we may never know, because it's A-OK to refuse a supeona???

Am I reading this right?




In the rough and tumble of Alabama politics, the scramble for power is often a blood sport. At the moment, the state's former Democratic governor, Don Siegelman, stands convicted of bribery and conspiracy charges and faces a sentence of up to 30 years in prison. Siegelman has long claimed that his prosecution was driven by politically motivated, Republican-appointed U.S. attorneys.


Now Karl Rove, the President's top political strategist, has been implicated in the controversy. A longtime Republican lawyer in Alabama swears she heard a top G.O.P. operative in the state say that Rove "had spoken with the Department of Justice" about "pursuing" Siegelman, with help from two of Alabama's U.S. attorneys.

That's ok....he's a Democrat, let him sit and rot......one less you have to worry about?

[preservanation]

Lily, this is a separation of powers issue just as much as it is anything else.
The Dems just want Rove up there so they can hold a kangaroo court and try to embarrass him and the administration for political points in an election year.
If Rove and the admin are smart they should stand their ground and go no where near that shark tank known as the Dem Congress.

[lily]

Lily, this is a separation of powers issue just as much as it is anything else.
The Dems just want Rove up there so they can hold a kangaroo court and try to embarrass him and the administration for political points in an election year.

Pres.....I know Bush has changed a lot of things "for the better and saftey" of the citizens......but I wasn't aware that he took off all the Republicans on the House Judiciary Committee..........as for trying to embarrass him and the administration in an election year......a) this could have been over and done with a long time ago and b) if he did nothing wrong........where is the embarrassment?

If Rove and the admin are smart they should stand their ground and go no where near that shark tank known as the Dem Congress.

First, unless I'm reading the article right, it's not the Congress, it's the House....and even if it was Congress.....it's still got both Democrats and Republicans on their committees....... and second.........I guess Rove is no fool, he's willing to talk to them, no transcript and no oath........guess he learned what happens when Clinton swore under oath and lied.

If I wanted to meet someone at a bar and have a chat with him.....I'd do that........but it seems that's not what the House wants.

[Milton Bradley]

The Righties are defending their heros ability to spy on us while they remain well outside of accountability.


I wonder if he'll show when the subpena is issued?

[jose]

Judiciary Committee approves resolution holding Rove in contempt of Congress
The House Judiciary Committee has voted 20-14 to approve a contempt of Congress resolution against former White House Deputy Chief of Staff Karl Rove for his failure to appear after a Congressional subpoena.(snip)
"I think it's ridiculous that Karl Rove thinks that he doesn't have to follow the law," Sanchez said in a release. "Nobody in this country should be above the law."
http://rawstory.com/news/2008/Judiciary_Committee_approves_contempt_of_Congress_ 0730.html

[PatrickHenry]

Nail his ass??? He gets his ass nailed EVERY time he´s in washinton ask Jeff gannon
http://www.thetruthseeker.co.uk/article.asp?ID=2826
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/02/18/opinion/lynch/main675050.shtml
LOL!

I love a dirty mind!

[PatrickHenry]

Lily, this is a separation of powers issue just as much as it is anything else.
The Dems just want Rove up there so they can hold a kangaroo court and try to embarrass him and the administration for political points in an election year.
If Rove and the admin are smart they should stand their ground and go no where near that shark tank known as the Dem Congress.

Heh! Naked partisanship, disguised as reason.

How do you get such a sterling reputation, preserva? :evil:

You will be howling for blood when the Dems take over and do the same thing...

Reason? You're so partisan with your GOP that you don't see the demolition of the system.