Obama: Your Children Should Learn To Speak Spanish

[DamnYankee]

www.youtube.com/watch?v=BZprtPat1Vk

This must be "change." Being embarrassed by his country.

[Buck Laser]

Well, the US has fewer bilingual people than just about any country in the world. And most of the truly bilingual people here have Spanish as their first language. Sounds like a good idea to me--unless you just can't learn another language.

[Wndrtch]

Well, the US has fewer bilingual people than just about any country in the world. And most of the truly bilingual people here have Spanish as their first language. Sounds like a good idea to me--unless you just can't learn another language.

That's because America is still the dominant society on Earth, dispite Liberal attempts to bring Her down all the time.

[Wndrtch]

www.youtube.com/watch?v=BZprtPat1Vk

This must be "change." Being embarrassed by his country.

His arrogance aside for a moment, this was nothing more than a play for the NEA. If he pushes bi-lingual education, we need to hire a whole bunch of teachers to do the job.

More teachers, means more money for the NEA.

More money for the NEA means more money for Obama.

See how that works?

[DamnYankee]

I agree.

I think his statement is about being embarrassed by America, not speaking a foreign language.

[micfranklin]

Before you all continue to blast Obama for his cynical-yet-factual statement, you might wanna take a look at this:

English - 216,078,959 80.60%
All languages other than English combined - 52,007,297 19.39%
Spanish * - 32,252,890 12.03%
Chinese - 1,550,574 0.57%
Tagalog - 1,374,515 0.51%
French - 1,325,236 0.49%

http://www.mla.org/cgi-shl/docstudio/docs.pl?map_data_results

[DamnYankee]

Before you all continue to blast Obama for his cynical-yet-factual statement...

He was factual, I agree. He is definitely embarrassed by his country.

[micfranklin]

He was factual, I agree. He is definitely embarrassed by his country.

Yeah okay, nevermind the chart and link I posted just a second ago.....

[Burning Giraffe]

Well, the US has fewer bilingual people than just about any country in the world. And most of the truly bilingual people here have Spanish as their first language. Sounds like a good idea to me--unless you just can't learn another language.

Why shouldn't they learn Russian, or Farsi, or Arabic, or any number of other languages spoken in the United States. I think non-Spanish people should feel insulted by Obama's favoritism toward Spanish. I mean, most liberals don't think people should have to learn English, but Obama wants them to learn Spanish? Note that this is merely pandering to the Hispanic vote and move on. There is no real substance here. :)

Obama really has that pandering act down to a T doesn't he? I mean, could anyone have seen this coming, did anyone point out that Obama was no different than Dodd or Clinton or Gore? (yes, of course they did, but the Obamaniacs wouldn't hear it!)

[Wndrtch]

Why shouldn't they learn Russian, or Farsi, or Arabic, or any number of other languages spoken in the United States. I think non-Spanish people should feel insulted by Obama's favoritism toward Spanish. I mean, most liberals don't think people should have to learn English, but Obama wants them to learn Spanish? Note that this is merely pandering to the Hispanic vote and move on. There is no real substance here. :)

Obama really has that pandering act down to a T doesn't he? I mean, could anyone have seen this coming, did anyone point out that Obama was no different than Dodd or Clinton or Gore? (yes, of course they did, but the Obamaniacs wouldn't hear it!)

I'm waiting for Obama to anounce the "change" in his position towards Iraq! THAT is going to be fun to watch!

First, he flips on Iran, next will be Iraq.

[Burning Giraffe]

I'm waiting for Obama to anounce the "change" in his position towards Iraq! THAT is going to be fun to watch!

First, he flips on Iran, next will be Iraq.

He already has. He came out and said the his final decision on Iraq would be based on the advice from the Generals on the ground there. What do you think that means?

[Truth_and_Power]

Oh god the sky is falling someone thinks americans should learn more than just english! Next he'll tell us that america is not the center of the universe and we should consider the opinions of others!

Look around people, in almost every other competitive country in the world children are taught a second language starting in elementary school. Only in america is it a two year optional highschool course which most quickly forget after the second year.

The bonuses to being fluent in a second language are huge and many. It opens the world much wider to you in terms of travelling for business or pleasure. It allows you to communicate more freely with a larger number of people. It gives you a different perspective on the world; Many are not aware, but the language you use affects your thinking, so knowing a second language is kind of like having a second perspective on many things.

The only drawback to knowing a second language is that it severely affects the egos of some who think that america is the center of the known universe and everyone else should speak our language and come to us. Why do arrogance and ignorance make such a common pair?

[Burning Giraffe]

Oh god the sky is falling someone thinks americans should learn more than just english! Next he'll tell us that america is not the center of the universe and we should consider the opinions of others!

Look around people, in almost every other competitive country in the world children are taught a second language starting in elementary school. Only is america is it a two year optional highschool course which most quickly forget after the second year.

The bonuses to being fluent in a second language are huge and many. It opens the world much wider to you in terms of travelling for business or pleasure. It allows you to communicate more freely with a larger number of people. It gives you a different perspective on the world; Many are not aware, but the language you use affects your thinking, so knowing a second language is kind of like having a second perspective on many things.

The only drawback to knowing a second language is that it severely affects the egos of some who think that america is the center of the known universe and everyone else should speak our language and come to us. Why do arrogance and ignorance make such a common pair?

We already teach second languages in this country, we're talking about force, something liberals salivate at the thought of. If I would rather learn French as my second language, so be it, but liberals want to make the decision for us, because force is all they know or understand.

[GhostintheMachine]

What makes America so special that we shouldn't have to learn other languages? Europe does it. Better communication is obviously beneficial, not to mention learning a foreign language helps strengthen your understanding of your native language.

1995 European Commission’s White Paper "Teaching and learning – Towards the learning society", stated that "upon completing initial training, everyone should be proficient in two Community foreign languages". The Lisbon Summit of 2000 defined languages as one of the five key skills.

In fact, even in 1974, at least one foreign language was compulsory in all but two European countries (Ireland and the United Kingdom, apart from Scotland). By 1998 nearly all pupils in Europe studied at least one foreign language as part of their compulsory education, the only exception being the Republic of Ireland, where primary and secondary schoolchildren learn both Irish and English, but neither is considered a foreign language. Pupils in upper secondary education learn at least two foreign languages in Belgium's Flemish community, Denmark, Netherlands, Germany, Luxembourg, Finland, Sweden, Switzerland, Greece, Cyprus, Estonia, Lettland, Lithuania, Poland, Romania, Serbia, Slovenia and Slovakia.

On average in Europe, at the start of foreign language teaching, pupils have lessons for three to four hours a week. Compulsory lessons in a foreign language normally start at the end of primary school or the start of secondary school. In Luxembourg, Norway, Italy and Malta, however, the first foreign language starts at age six, and in Belgium's Flemish community at age 10. About half of the EU's primary school pupils learn a foreign language.

English is the language taught most often at lower secondary level in the EU. 93% of children there learn English. At upper secondary level, English is even more widely taught. French is taught at lower secondary level in all EU countries except Slovenia. A total of 33% of European Union pupils learn French at this level. At upper secondary level the figure drops slightly to 28%. German is taught in nearly all EU countries. A total of 13% of pupils in the European Union learn German in lower secondary education, and 20% learn it at an upper secondary level.

[DamnYankee]

Yeah okay, nevermind the chart and link I posted just a second ago.....

It's not about speaking a foreign language. It's about him being embarrassed.

It's the whole leftist blame America because we do not speak a second language.

[Wndrtch]

What makes America so special that we shouldn't have to learn other languages? Europe does it. Better communication is obviously beneficial, not to mention learning a foreign language helps strengthen your understanding of your native language.

1995 European Commission’s White Paper "Teaching and learning – Towards the learning society", stated that "upon completing initial training, everyone should be proficient in two Community foreign languages". The Lisbon Summit of 2000 defined languages as one of the five key skills.

In fact, even in 1974, at least one foreign language was compulsory in all but two European countries (Ireland and the United Kingdom, apart from Scotland). By 1998 nearly all pupils in Europe studied at least one foreign language as part of their compulsory education, the only exception being the Republic of Ireland, where primary and secondary schoolchildren learn both Irish and English, but neither is considered a foreign language. Pupils in upper secondary education learn at least two foreign languages in Belgium's Flemish community, Denmark, Netherlands, Germany, Luxembourg, Finland, Sweden, Switzerland, Greece, Cyprus, Estonia, Lettland, Lithuania, Poland, Romania, Serbia, Slovenia and Slovakia.

On average in Europe, at the start of foreign language teaching, pupils have lessons for three to four hours a week. Compulsory lessons in a foreign language normally start at the end of primary school or the start of secondary school. In Luxembourg, Norway, Italy and Malta, however, the first foreign language starts at age six, and in Belgium's Flemish community at age 10. About half of the EU's primary school pupils learn a foreign language.

English is the language taught most often at lower secondary level in the EU. 93% of children there learn English. At upper secondary level, English is even more widely taught. French is taught at lower secondary level in all EU countries except Slovenia. A total of 33% of European Union pupils learn French at this level. At upper secondary level the figure drops slightly to 28%. German is taught in nearly all EU countries. A total of 13% of pupils in the European Union learn German in lower secondary education, and 20% learn it at an upper secondary level.

Whose stopping you?

You want to learn a second language, more power to you.

I hear the Rosetta Stone tapes are pretty good.

[DamnYankee]

We already teach second languages in this country, we're talking about force, something liberals salivate at the thought of. If I would rather learn French as my second language, so be it, but liberals want to make the decision for us, because force is all they know or understand.

I'd like to see the left force teaching our kids the basics, instead of Al Gore's scifi movie about some dead polar bears.

[GhostintheMachine]

Whose stopping you?

You want to learn a second language, more power to you.

I hear the Rosetta Stone tapes are pretty good.

Already am learning, what's wrong with asking kids to learn another language? I already explained the benefits.

[Truth_and_Power]

We already teach second languages in this country, we're talking about force, something liberals salivate at the thought of. If I would rather learn French as my second language, so be it, but liberals want to make the decision for us, because force is all they know or understand.

You were forced to learn math in school, correct? Were you also forced to attend P.E.? Were you forced to learn to write in cursive?

Why is it you folks aren't looking to start a revolution to protect your children from enslavement by the ranks of fascist in-cursive liberals?

[heyjude]

I personally think the schools should be forced to teach children to speak English. But they should require all children to learn a second language. I think it would be advantageous to teach them to learn Chinese since China is going to be an economic force very soon. If they aren't already.

There is no reason, no justification, no purpose for the Department of Education to exist. If there is any subject that ought to be left to the states, and local jurisdiction, it is education. Subject to the rule of law in this country. No racism tolerated. Or any other ism. The D of E is a shining example of federal expansionism.

But that is another thing I won't hold my breath waiting for Obama to change. And I don't know if McCain has the guts to get rid of it. But after Obama is done, assuming his election, the only control over the schools left to the people who's children are being educated is, do they want tofu, or brie for the free lunch program.

[micfranklin]

It's not about speaking a foreign language. It's about him being embarrassed.

It's the whole leftist blame America because we do not speak a second language.

"It's embarassing that Europeans who come here can speak English well, but Americans going over there can only say "merci beaucoup."

You don't think it's a problem that Americans go to other countries that are primarily non-English speaking and don't have a clue what to say?

[Truth_and_Power]

It's not about speaking a foreign language. It's about him being embarrassed.

It's the whole leftist blame America because we do not speak a second language.

He's embarrased that our children are less educated than children in other countries. Don't you see that as a problem?

[DamnYankee]

You don't think it's a problem that Americans go to other countries that are primarily non-English speaking and don't have a clue what to say?

It's not about speaking a foreign lingo. It's about Obama being embarrassed by his country.

The only "problem," is Obama's blame America first mantra.

[Truth_and_Power]

It's not about speaking a foreign lingo. It's about Obama being embarrassed by his country.

The only "problem," is Obama's blame America first mantra.

So he should be proud our children are less educated than the children of most other competitive countries?

[potter]

Embarassment? Jeezus....makin' shit up.... :unreal:

It's nothing but practical. American will have a population approaching 50% latino by 2050, if you don't want to be able to communicate with half of your fellow citizens, you're the only one who will look the fool.

Besides...Spanish is a lovely language.....

[DamnYankee]

So he should be proud our children are less educated than the children of most other competitive countries?

Wouldn't have been better if he would have said something like: As president, I would push for our youngsters to learn and second language...etc. Instead of being embarrassed by his country? What he ought to be embarrassed by is the leftist controlled education system.

But his true feelings come out. I guess this is the "change" he always talks about.

[micfranklin]

It's not about speaking a foreign lingo. It's about Obama being embarrassed by his country.

The only "problem," is Obama's blame America first mantra.

http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g289/micfranklin/Funny%20pics/strawmotivator.jpg

[DamnYankee]

Embarassment? Jeezus....makin' shit up.... :unreal:

Watch the video. No need to claim I am making shit up. He said it, not me. The truth is sometimes painful, potter.

[Truth_and_Power]

Wouldn't have been better if he would have said something like: As president, I would push for our youngsters to learn and second language...etc. Instead of being embarrassed by his country? What he ought to be embarrassed by is the leftist controlled education system.

But his true feelings come out. I guess this is the "change" he always talks about.

So it's ok to be embarrassed about a particular branch of the government, but not by the result it produces? I'm sorry, I'm having trouble figuring out your indignation. Am I to understand that this is a purely semantical objection you have to obama?

[DamnYankee]

So it's ok to be embarrassed about a particular branch of the government, but not by the result it produces? I'm sorry, I'm having trouble figuring out your indignation. Am I to understand that this is a purely semantical objection you have to obama?

Which is more embarrassing to you. Teaching our kids how to put on condoms, or showing Al Gore's scifi thriller about some dead polar bears?

I think the leftist controlled education system (note: system) waste taxpayer's money on BS rather than focusing on the three R's. Why don't they try that? Now that would be CHANGE.

[Truth_and_Power]

Which is more embarrassing to you. Teaching our kids how to put on condoms, or showing Al Gore's scifi thriller about some dead polar bears?

I think the leftist controlled education system (note: system) waste taxpayer's money on BS rather than focusing on the three R's. Why don't they try that? Now that would be CHANGE.

I think the american children (note: people) need to take their education more seriously, and i think the american curriculum (note: lessons) need to be brought up to date to include things that will help them compete in the global marketplace.

Embarrassing to me is ignorant americans that think everyone else should learn our language if they want to talk to us because we are somehow too high and mighty to learn theirs.

[Buck Laser]

We already teach second languages in this country, we're talking about force, something liberals salivate at the thought of. If I would rather learn French as my second language, so be it, but liberals want to make the decision for us, because force is all they know or understand.
Force, my ass! Is a third grader studying Spanish a victim of force? See, this is why I hate to get into discussions with "libertarians." Damn, most kids don't wanna learn the multiplication tables, either. Giraffe, you gotta get a better set of lines than the ones you're using. This is utterly ridiculous.

[DamnYankee]

Embarrassing to me is ignorant americans that think everyone else should learn our language if they want to talk to us because we are somehow too high and mighty to learn theirs.

So blame America!

English IS an international language. Firstly.

Secondly, where are these "ignorant Americans" who think they are "too high" and "too mighty?"

Why don't you people quit blaming America first? So much for patriotism.

[Wndrtch]

Force, my ass! Is a third grader studying Spanish a victim of force? See, this is why I hate to get into discussions with "libertarians." Damn, most kids don't wanna learn the multiplication tables, either. Giraffe, you gotta get a better set of lines than the ones you're using. This is utterly ridiculous.

LOL, What!

What are you talking about? If someone doesn't want to do something you want them to do, what do you do, sing songs and hope for the best?

[GhostintheMachine]

LOL, What!

What are you talking about? If someone doesn't want to do something you want them to do, what do you do, sing songs and hope for the best?

Okay, now things are just getting blown out of context. We are talking about forcing kids to learn Spanish. Much like we FORCE them to learn math, history, English and science. Is this such a crime?

[Wndrtch]

English IS an international language. Firstly.

It's the closest thing we Humans have to a "common tongue", thanks to English expansionism. It was once said, that the Sun never set on English soil.

THAT is why everybody else speaks English.

[Wndrtch]

Okay, now things are just getting blown out of context. We are talking about forcing kids to learn Spanish. Much like we FORCE them to learn math, history, English and science. Is this such a crime?

No, but it was funny to see Buck try and get around the fact that you have to force kids to do it.

[AnnEsthesia]

We already force kids to learn a second language. Of did you skip that part of school?

[PostmodernProphet]

I think we should all be required to speak Australian......

[Wndrtch]

We already force kids to learn a second language. Of did you skip that part of school?

we ain't got learn no secon langage, lady. :dork:

[AnnEsthesia]

Well, the school systems here require it in order to graduate.

[Wndrtch]

I think we should all be required to speak Australian......

LMAO!!

I AM MULTI LINGUAL!!!

[Shoey]

I believe all Americans should be required to speak "jive" before graduating...

[Wndrtch]

Well, the school systems here require it in order to graduate.

Well here in MA, we do everything possible to avoid anything that can be remotely construde as a standard, so....

[micfranklin]

I think we should all be required to speak Australian......

Is that even a real language?

[NIOSA]

Ya gotta hear it to believe it. LMAO
This is an arrogant fool, this Obama. :sick:

http://www.thecarpetbaggerreport.com/archives/16143.html

[micfranklin]

Already a thread on this and you're about 6 hours late.

Fail.

[Muser]

He's embarrased that our children are less educated than children in other countries. Don't you see that as a problem?

Yes, it is a problem - but it has fsck-all to do with learning another language. Learning another language isn't going to improve the US' abysmal math, reading and science scores - you know, knowledge that actually MATTERS.

As for the perceived "need" for USians to learn a second language - how does learning fluent French benefit someone living in the US? It's nice to be able to order food at a French restaurant, or converse with the odd Parisian from time to time - but it wouldn't be utilized enough to make it practical. Unless someone moves to or travels frequently to France (or perhaps Canada), or is regularly within an environment that supports use of the language - the "use it or lose it" principle would apply, with most people losing it.

Hands up how many of you NOT regularly and consistently in a foreign-language-predominant environment remember with all fluency that foreign language you learned in jr high, high school, or college?

Do the majority of USians travel abroad? Where to? How often? How is it to be decided which foreign language would be chosen and enforced? Obama mentions Spanish...I s'pose that's a somewhat practical language to decide upon, but unless I'm planning to visit Mexico frequently, it won't do me much good, as I would expect English to be the predominant means of communication for a long while yet. There again, did he really mean "Spanish"...or perhaps "Mexican" - they're quite not the same thing.

People who keep trying to equate the US with Europe need to look at a map. USians don't have the same practical need for a foreign language as Europeans do; in Europe, they've got what, 7 or 8 different countries (with different languages) within 7 hours' drive? 5 or 6 countries within a 3-hr (or less) train ride? It can take 24 hours of driving just to get across Texas alone.

US - 3,794,066 sq miles. 1 country.
EUR - 3,930,000 sq miles. 47 countries.

Gee...I wonder why Europeans tend to be more multilingual than the US. It's a matter of practicality and geographical influences that the US just doesn't have.

In terms of "competing in the global marketplace", improving our educational system with respect to the aforementioned reading/math/science disciplines would do more to improve the US' ability to compete in a global arena, as opposed to learning German or Spanish...although <inserts tongue only halfway in cheek> learning Chinese or a Middle Eastern dialect could prove beneficial when conducting business with our "money masters", as it were.

Learning a second language is generally a Good Thing[tm], but applies more towards those who can and will actively use it in order to keep their fluency levels up. For other people, it tends to wind up being forgotten and unused.

[NIOSA]

Already a thread on this and you're about 6 hours late.

Fail.

Sorry, I didn't see it, & I did look for one.

[DamnYankee]

It's the closest thing we Humans have to a "common tongue", thanks to English expansionism. It was once said, that the Sun never set on English soil.

THAT is why everybody else speaks English.

I hear you.

I don't remember, in my lifetime, America demanding from any other country, that they speak English. They taught themselves English on their own accord.

So why is it the left blames America for NOT speaking another language. And why would Obama be embarrassed if it we don't?

[Buck Laser]

LMAO!!

I AM MULTI LINGUAL!!!

And illiterate in all of them? :madlaugh:

[Muser]

So why is it the left blames America for NOT speaking another language.

I don't necessarily subscribe to your generality about "the left", but will say that those who would "blame America for not speaking another language" haven't looked at a map enough to know that the US is one big-ass country bordered by only two....TWO other countries that could reasonably be expected to provide any sort of meaningful secondary language exposure and influence - and even said influence is infinitesimal compared to the secondary influences within the European community.

And why would Obama be embarrassed if it we don't?

He hasn't looked at a map to determine the geographical differences between the US and Europe, or is conflating "second language" with "math/reading/science scores", or hasn't bothered to study the differences in educational systems between the US and Europe.

On a more light-hearted note - the US actually DOES have a number of regional dialects that are somewhat akin to "second languages". Transplant someone from Georgia to Maine, or a Texan to Wisconsin and for them it's not unlike learning a second language. :dork:

[Wndrtch]

And illiterate in all of them? :madlaugh:

I only know two languages...

English and bad English

[Muser]

I only know two languages...

English and bad English

Hey, I really liked that band!

[Wndrtch]

Hey, I really liked that band!

LOL!

Wasn't that English Beat?

[NIOSA]

Well, the US has fewer bilingual people than just about any country in the world. And most of the truly bilingual people here have Spanish as their first language. Sounds like a good idea to me--unless you just can't learn another language.

Ya know, when we lived in Spain, we had to at least be able to converse some in order to shop etc. Not that most could not speak English, but they had the idea that we were in their country, we should at least try to speak their language, we agreed. That's respect of the host country.
When we traveled to other countries we studied enough of the host countrys language to at least get by, & we always took a book with us, "English to insert language here". We never once thought it was incumbent upon the people of whose country we were visiting to speak our language.
I don't think I'd be so quick to accuse people of not speaking other languages if I were Obama.

[NIOSA]

Before you all continue to blast Obama for his cynical-yet-factual statement, you might wanna take a look at this:

He needs to speak to ebonics.

[Muser]

LOL!

Wasn't that English Beat?

No no - Bad English! :)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bad_English

You'd likely know their popular easy-listening song, "When I See You Smile". If unrecognizable, I could only conclude you've been in a distant galaxy far far away due to the nauseous heavy rotation this song received from 1988-1993. Heck, it *still* plays today in restaurants, stores, etc. (I heard it just the other day).

<ahem> Apologies for going OT, but Wndrtch was in need of a small bit of enlightenment. :D

[Elrathin]

Given that most students in other counties are multi-lingual, I don't think it is a stretch to say that our students should be as well to compete with the world.

But hey that goes against the "America is #1 and we rule the world" concept some have.

[DamnYankee]

Given that most students in other counties are multi-lingual, I don't think it is a stretch to say that our students should be as well to compete with the world.

But hey that goes against the "America is #1 and we rule the world" concept some have.

I would agree assuming that a student is studying abroad or working for a company abroad. English is still the international language however.

I still fail to see why anyone would be embarrassed at their country for not knowing a foreign language.

[apdst]

How 'bout spanish speaking kids learn english?

[DamnYankee]

How 'bout spanish speaking kids learn english?

Who woulda thunk?

Wouldn't that be racist?

[Elrathin]

How 'bout spanish speaking kids learn english?

If they're Americans, that means they would be bi-lingual which is a good thing, you're correct.

[Elrathin]

I would agree assuming that a student is studying abroad or working for a company abroad. English is still the international language however.

Um your arrogance is astounding. English is not going to be the international language in the next two decades, I am willing to bet big money on that one. Are you?

[Shoey]

Um your arrogance is astounding. English is not going to be the international language in the next two decades, I am willing to bet big money on that one. Are you?


Let's worry about that in say a decade from now. In the meantime let our public school systems teach English for those that need to be taught first, then Spanish. It's that simple.

[NDNdancer]

Yes, it is a problem - but it has fsck-all to do with learning another language. Learning another language isn't going to improve the US' abysmal math, reading and science scores - you know, knowledge that actually MATTERS.

..............

In terms of "competing in the global marketplace", improving our educational system with respect to the aforementioned reading/math/science disciplines would do more to improve the US' ability to compete in a global arena, as opposed to learning German or Spanish...although <inserts tongue only halfway in cheek> learning Chinese or a Middle Eastern dialect could prove beneficial when conducting business with our "money masters", as it were.

Learning a second language is generally a Good Thing[tm], but applies more towards those who can and will actively use it in order to keep their fluency levels up. For other people, it tends to wind up being forgotten and unused.

All of the educational research on language and music and it's connections to learning math clearly show our shortsightedness in NOT demanding that these be a part of our children's education.

The same brain pathways that are used for math are used in learning a new language and in music. By not insisting that our children are exposed to these disciplines, and exposed early, we are shortchanging their ability to learn and understand Math as well.

This is only one of the reasons that US students have fallen behind every other "developed" nation in Math, as well as coming in in the middle of the pack of "developing" countries.

The US rarely does anything based on good research or good practice. To turn a sound policy decision into a political/emotional/racial discussion will once again shortchange our children and deprive our nation of the vital skills we will need to move forward in the future.

Unfortunately, we also don't pay enough attention to the training our K-8 teachers have in teaching a Math. Compound that with the increasing financial pressure on schools and their tendency to cut language and music programs first, is it any wonder our kids can't compete internationally?

My newest grandchild is going to be home-schooled by me. She will learn several Indigenous languages, as well as the languages of oppression, english and spanish. Those exposures to various languages will begin next month when I go out to California to stay with her for a month. They will continue when her and mom come home to stay with me and her mom goes to college.

My granddaughter will be a citizen of the world and know the beauty of language as well as be more competitive then her peers in the public school systems.

Senator Obama's vision is rooted in reality. I know he's spoken to some pretty smart educators who have told him of the flaws in our educational system, language is one of them. He is also very aware that the other major language used in the US is spanish. It's not a huge leap to make the connection. Except to some of you.

I'd have every child learning a Native language if I were in charge. Which would be great in terms of learning Math, but not much use in communicating with our increasing Hispanic American community.

[GhostintheMachine]

Let's worry about that in say a decade from now. In the meantime let our public school systems teach English for those that need to be taught first, then Spanish. It's that simple.

When the rest of the world is out competing us because of our own ignorance? Our schools already are teaching English, it's not that simple. I suggest you read about billingual education.

[Elrathin]

Let's worry about that in say a decade from now. In the meantime let our public school systems teach English for those that need to be taught first, then Spanish. It's that simple.

We are supposed to be training our kids for the future. The future is dictating that we need bilingual people to compete internationally.

Hell even when I was in school decades back it was required we take a year and a half of a foreign language.

[DamnYankee]

Um your arrogance is astounding. English is not going to be the international language in the next two decades, I am willing to bet big money on that one. Are you?

So I am arrogant because English is an international language?

Cool.

[GhostintheMachine]

So I am arrogant because English is an international language?

Cool.

Short sighted views are what have caused the majority of problems in the U.S. in the first place.

[NIOSA]

He already has. He came out and said the his final decision on Iraq would be based on the advice from the Generals on the ground there. What do you think that means?

I believe he calls it "refining his position". See what good language skills have done for him. :D

[NIOSA]

I'd like to see the left force teaching our kids the basics, instead of Al Gore's scifi movie about some dead polar bears.

:clapper:

[NIOSA]

Anybody know if Obama can speak anything other than English? We know he can say, "merci beaucoup".

[AnnEsthesia]

Of course, everyone is forgetting that we are not just stuck here in this country. To be a viable world power, we need to move and shake with all the other countries and within all the other global markets.

When I was in school, Russian and Japanese were the two languages that were up and coming because Russia was opening up to the outside world markets and Japan was becoming a force in the world. To be able to speak one or the other would open up a lot of jobs in the business sector.

So yea, we should be multilingual, if only to open up other markets and allow us easier access to world markets.

[NIOSA]

Of course, everyone is forgetting that we are not just stuck here in this country. To be a viable world power, we need to move and shake with all the other countries and within all the other global markets.

When I was in school, Russian and Japanese were the two languages that were up and coming because Russia was opening up to the outside world markets and Japan was becoming a force in the world. To be able to speak one or the other would open up a lot of jobs in the business sector.

So yea, we should be multilingual, if only to open up other markets and allow us easier access to world markets.

My granddaughter speaks. reads, & writes Japanese fluently. Course it might help that her mom is Japanese. :D

[DamnYankee]

We are supposed to be training our kids for the future. The future is dictating that we need bilingual people to compete internationally.

Hell even when I was in school decades back it was required we take a year and a half of a foreign language.

English is also the international language of business. So now I'm realllllly arrogant.

[GhostintheMachine]

English is also the international language of business. So now I'm realllllly arrogant.

Who said we are stopping teaching English? Face it, English will not always be the international language of business. Not to mention, learning another language helps improve your english skills.

[DamnYankee]

Who said we are stopping teaching English? Face it, English will not always be the international language of business. Not to mention, learning another language helps improve your english skills.

Que?

[DamnYankee]

Are you people embarrassed like Obama?

[GhostintheMachine]

Are you people embarrassed like Obama?

Yes I am embarrassed to be living in a country where people have such a high arrogance about the superiority of their language and culture over others.

[micfranklin]

How 'bout spanish speaking kids learn english?

If they're citizens living in America then yeah that'd help them a lot.

[Muser]

Um your arrogance is astounding. English is not going to be the international language in the next two decades, I am willing to bet big money on that one. Are you?

Curious as to what you believe will be the international language in the next two decades? And how well does your guess square with the study and data presented here:

The World's 10 Most Influential Languages (http://www.andaman.org/BOOK/reprints/weber/rep-weber.htm)

[Elrathin]

Curious as to what you believe will be the international language in the next two decades? And how well does your guess square with the study and data presented here:

The World's 10 Most Influential Languages (http://www.andaman.org/BOOK/reprints/weber/rep-weber.htm)

I am willing to bet big money that within the next two decades the international language will be Mandarin Chinese or Arabic.

[Muser]

I am willing to bet big money that within the next two decades the international language will be Mandarin Chinese or Arabic.

Funny - I made reference to those same languages in my quip earlier. :)

From the link I posted - which I don't purport to be the end-all-be-all of sources - here are their conclusions based on their lengthy research:


Arabic is the only language apart from English and French that is used in an international "field". It is the language of Islam and as such used in countless Koranic schools between Morocco and Indonesia. It is also the only major international linguistic stream of influence that is quite independent of the West and as such is little noticed or appreciated there.

Chinese is a language whose speakers are noticeably disinterested in spreading its use outside their own people. Although Chinese is not really one but several languages held together by a common script, we shall disregard such finer distinctions here and call all these Chinese languages (usually and misleadingly called dialects) Chinese. It is a tenet of the language business that in order to penetrate a market you have to know its language. This may apply to most markets but China is different. Like any other people, the Chinese appreciate it if a foreigner makes the effort to learn their language, but they do not appreciate it if the foreigner succeeds. To tell the Chinese that their language is fiendlishly difficult and practically impossible to learn, cheers up their whole day. Everybody may feel proud to have mastered something that is too complex for most others. The Chinese have elevated this feeling into a national art form. A foreigner who speaks or (worse still) writes excellent Chinese is regarded with grave suspicion. Foreign visitors to China, diplomats as well as businessmen, have been known to pretend to a far lower knowledge of the language than they actually possessed. Not unlike the Japanese, the Chinese prefer to deal with foreigners in English.

Despite its huge number of native speakers, Chinese is not an internationally influential language. Its use is concentrated in China, Taiwan, Hong Kong, Singapore and widespread communities all over the world, especially large ones in Southeast Asia. With its continent-sized home base it seems sufficient unto itself. Chinese has been the historical language of learning in much of the Far East and has been a major influence in the past on the Korean, Japanese, Vietnamese, Thai and some other people. Its cultural influence has declined sharply over the past few hundred years but one gets the impression that the Chinese at home have not noticed or do not care.<shrug> Food for thought.

[NIOSA]

Yes I am embarrassed to be living in a country where people have such a high arrogance about the superiority of their language and culture over others.

Lets not discuss France now, ok?

[Elrathin]

Funny - I made reference to those same languages in my quip earlier. :)

From the link I posted - which I don't purport to be the end-all-be-all of sources - here are their conclusions based on their lengthy research:

<shrug> Food for thought.

It is a good site. But let's face facts. Arabic is definately an influential language and given the international condemnation of the U.S. in the M.E. I suspect many corporations internationally are looking to get in there.

China, has bought MANY MANY U.S. bonds. And when the time comes to cash in those bonds, it will leave the U.S. a wreck. They may not do it all at once, but each withdraw will only hurt the U.S. economy.

Within two decades, I still maintain that one of the two languages I listed will be the new international (or at least majority) business language spoken.

I hope I am wrong, really I do, but I don't think I am.

[AnnEsthesia]

The country that sets the market and financial standards will be the country that has the most power. Due to our huge amounts of loans, our devalued dollar that continues to shrink and all the other parts of our financial mess, you would have to be deluded to think that we will have as much say in the world markets now.

[NIOSA]

I don't think the US is quite as bad as some here portray her. We're still looked to for any international emergency. We still supply most of the worlds food, & we are the strongest militarily. So please, don't throw the US on the trash heap yet, even though that seems to be the PC du jour of the day.

[GhostintheMachine]

I'm not throwing it in the trash just yet, but I am sick of people sporting the delusion that the U.S. is superior. Sure hasn't helped us in the eyes of the world...

[lily]

It is a good site. But let's face facts. Arabic is definately an influential language and given the international condemnation of the U.S. in the M.E. I suspect many corporations internationally are looking to get in there.

China, has bought MANY MANY U.S. bonds. And when the time comes to cash in those bonds, it will leave the U.S. a wreck. They may not do it all at once, but each withdraw will only hurt the U.S. economy.

Within two decades, I still maintain that one of the two languages I listed will be the new international (or at least majority) business language spoken.

I hope I am wrong, really I do, but I don't think I am.

I just asked my granddaughter what languages they offer in highschool. Spanish and Chinese.

It has been my biggest beef that the United States is the only country I can think of that is not bi-lingual .

[Elrathin]

It has been my biggest beef that the United States is the only country I can think of that is not bi-lingual .

I can't tell you what the curriculum is in the entire U.S., but the High school that my nephew graduated from required them to complete 1 year of a foreign language.

It is being done, I can't tell you how widespread it is being done though.

[GhostintheMachine]

I can't tell you what the curriculum is in the entire U.S., but the High school that my nephew graduated from required them to complete 1 year of a foreign language.

It is being done, I can't tell you how widespread it is being done though.

Yeah, unfortunately one year hardly teaches you any language...

[lily]

I can't tell you what the curriculum is in the entire U.S., but the High school that my nephew graduated from required them to complete 1 year of a foreign language.

It is being done, I can't tell you how widespread it is being done though.


Not here, they offer it, but it's elective.....but then I'm also upset that they only have one semester of civics.

[DamnYankee]

Yes I am embarrassed to be living in a country where people have such a high arrogance about the superiority of their language and culture over others.

You must not get out very much.

Everyone everywhere ought to be proud of their country and it's culture. And a lot are.

[BoogyMan]

America is not largely bilingual because we are not a loose confederation of state sized countries, we are an immense nation that was built around the English language. Senator Obama should at least consider the differences in the two parts of the world he is conflating if he wishes to make a salient point.

[NIOSA]

I'm not throwing it in the trash just yet, but I am sick of people sporting the delusion that the U.S. is superior. Sure hasn't helped us in the eyes of the world...

I'm sorry, why should I care what the world thinks when it's the US thay look to in times of their need? But when they don't need us for the moment, we're the unwanted red headed step child.
Who in your mind is superior to the US? Or are all equal?

[Elrathin]

Yeah, unfortunately one year hardly teaches you any language...

Wanna make a bet? He learned French and my Aunt sent him on a trip to France and he was able to do well there. Yes, he sounded like a foreigner but he was able to speak the language to get what he needed.

Try again.

[GhostintheMachine]

You must not get out very much.

Everyone everywhere ought to be proud of their country and it's culture. And a lot are.

There's a difference between pride and arrogance...

[Elrathin]

Senator Obama should at least consider the differences in the two parts of the world he is conflating if he wishes to make a salient point.

By not having our children bilingual we are putting them at a serious disadvantage international wise.

I am not saying that learning Spanish should be a must, but yes I think bilingual training should be done.

[GhostintheMachine]

I'm sorry, why should I care what the world thinks when it's the US thay look to in times of their need? But when they don't need us for the moment, we're the unwanted red headed step child.
Who in your mind is superior to the US? Or are all equal?

People that assume that the rest of the world should pander to our language, business and culture, and that we should police the world(Iraq?). I think the term "Freedom Fries" is a great example of our arrogance and stupidity.

[NIOSA]

My niece studied French in college, her senior year was spent in Switzerland & France speaking nothing but French. She is not totally proficient in the langusge even after all that. Some are more adept at learning a foreign language than others.

[NIOSA]

People that assume that the rest of the world should pander to our language, business and culture, and that we should police the world(Iraq?). I think the term "Freedom Fries" is a great example of our arrogance and stupidity.

& people that come here expecting us to learn their language are just as arrogant. When we lived abroad we learned to speak at least enough to get by, we did not presume that they would "pander" to us, i expect no less when foreigners come to the US.

[GhostintheMachine]

Wanna make a bet? He learned French and my Aunt sent him on a trip to France and he was able to do well there. Yes, he sounded like a foreigner but he was able to speak the language to get what he needed.

Try again.

Yeah, but he was able to go their country and practice the language and was immersed in their culture. I know plenty of people who took two years of Spanish in high school and can hardly speak a sentence several years later. My German relative took 5 years of English, and struggled with the language when he came to the states. Immersion is a much better way to learn than classroom. Then we are getting into the philosophy of teaching languages, which I think there are flaws in the way that students are taught. You might be able to learn basic survival sentences, but isn't the goal to be able to conduct business and have more intelligent conversations in a foreign language?

[DamnYankee]

America is not largely bilingual because we are not a loose confederation of state sized countries, we are an immense nation that was built around the English language. Senator Obama should at least consider the differences in the two parts of the world he is conflating if he wishes to make a salient point.

The teleprompter was broken. Give'm a break.

[NIOSA]

The teleprompter was broken. Give'm a break.

:madlaugh:

[DamnYankee]

There's a difference between pride and arrogance...

Leftist don't have the pride, so they must have the arrogance.

[GhostintheMachine]

Leftist don't have the pride, so they must have the arrogance.

I am proud of people who work hard and are honest, I am proud of those who stand up to adversity, and I am proud of those who are willing to question things. I am not proud of those who are too arrogant to admit that our country isn't number one in everything.

[NIOSA]

I am proud of people who work hard and are honest, I am proud of those who stand up to adversity, and I am proud of those who are willing to question things. I am not proud of those who are too arrogant to admit that our country isn't number one in everything.

Ah, "number one in everything", well of course we aren't. Belgium has wonderful lace, Germany has great beer & bratwurst, Cadbury chocolate (British) is the best, France....France....oh yeah, wonderful white flag makers/wavers, Italy, olives, Japan, tea....lots of wondeful things around the world. But we aren't exactly slouches here, what we're best at is too numerous to post.
I think the best testament to the US are the millions of people that ere immigrating here, many dying trying to get here. If I wake up one morning & hear that people are dying to get out of here, I'll start to worry.

[DamnYankee]

I am proud of people who work hard and are honest, I am proud of those who stand up to adversity, and I am proud of those who are willing to question things. I am not proud of those who are too arrogant to admit that our country isn't number one in everything.

Who said we ARE number one in everything?

[GhostintheMachine]

Ah, "number one in everything", well of course we aren't. Belgium has wonderful lace, Germany has great beer & bratwurst, Cadbury chocolate (British) is the best, France....France....oh yeah, wonderful white flag makers/wavers, Italy, olives, Japan, tea....lots of wondeful things around the world. But we aren't exactly slouches here, what we're best at is too numerous to post.
I think the best testament to the US are the millions of people that ere immigrating here. If I wake up one morning & hear that people are dying to get out of here, I'll start to worry.

Well surely, but Americans are too proud to learn other languages, because the world should learn ours!

[DamnYankee]

Ah, "number one in everything", well of course we aren't. Belgium has wonderful lace, Germany has great beer & bratwurst, Cadbury chocolate (British) is the best, France....France....oh yeah, wonderful white flag makers/wavers, Italy, olives, Japan, tea....lots of wondeful things around the world. But we aren't exactly slouches here, what we're best at is too numerous to post.

We're number one in presidential candidates who can't pronounce "merci" the correct way.

[GhostintheMachine]

We're number one in presidential candidates who can't pronounce "merci" the correct way.

:lmao:surely, another example of reasons why we shouldn't be overly proud, and more efforts should be put towards learning about the world outside of us.

[NIOSA]

Well surely, but Americans are too proud to learn other languages, because the world should learn ours!

If the world lives here, damn straight they should learn our language. Even if they visit, they should at least try to speak English.
Where does this come from, "Americans are too proud to learn other languages"? Do you have stats to back that up?

[DamnYankee]

Well surely, but Americans are too proud to learn other languages, because the world should learn ours!

Two years of a foreign language is mandatory to get into college in my high school district.

Many moons ago I learned German, although I haven't kept up with it and have lost that skill.

It isn't Americans are too proud, it's they are not made to take a foreign language while in HS. Just like they are not made to find their country on a map.

[DamnYankee]

:lmao:surely, another example of reasons why we shouldn't be overly proud, and more efforts should be put towards learning about the world outside of us.

I see your point. Tanks slot :dork:

[GhostintheMachine]

If the world lives here, damn straight they should learn our language. Even if they visit, they should at least try to speak English.
Where does this come from, "Americans are too proud to learn other languages"? Do you have stats to back that up?

The majority of Americans are monolingual. That is changing, but it is still the majority.

The United States federal government does not specify an official language, while many individual states and territories have adopted English as their official language.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Languages_in_the_United_States

I did not intend to imply that all Americans are too proud to learn. I was trying to criticize those who were. Perhaps I mispoke.

[GhostintheMachine]

Two years of a foreign language is mandatory to get into college in my high school district.

Many moons ago I learned German, although I haven't kept up with it and have lost that skill.

It isn't Americans are too proud, it's they are not made to take a foreign language while in HS. Just like they are not made to find their country on a map.

Yes, well I think that America as a whole hasn't valued learning other languages enough. Geography is another sad failure of our schools.

[Elrathin]

English should be the main language of the Unites States. However, I am fully supportive of a requirement of another language being taught in High school as a requirement.

[NIOSA]

We're number one in presidential candidates who can't pronounce "merci" the correct way.

:clapper:

[NIOSA]

The majority of Americans are monolingual. That is changing, but it is still the majority.

The United States federal government does not specify an official language, while many individual states and territories have adopted English as their official language.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Languages_in_the_United_States

I did not intend to imply that all Americans are too proud to learn. I was trying to criticize those who were. Perhaps I mispoke.

Maybe stubborn is a more apt term. I know if somebody tries to make me do something, my dander gets riled. When I was in school, (back when Christ walked the earth) we could not graduate without a foreign language. I opted for pig latin. :D J/K, I did take Spanish.

[Burning Giraffe]

You were forced to learn math in school, correct? Were you also forced to attend P.E.? Were you forced to learn to write in cursive?

Why is it you folks aren't looking to start a revolution to protect your children from enslavement by the ranks of fascist in-cursive liberals?

Who says I'm not?

And yes, thank you for pointing out that I was forced to learn math, and attend PE, and to write in cursive, which who the hell needs that anymore? I don't think there should be any public education whatsoever, outside of that which is paid for by towns or cities in order to educate people to succeed in local economies. But there is no real benefit to a public federal education. We're turning out the same breed of idiots every day and for what? We've turned whole generations of students into thoughtless androids who don't even have a handle on the most rudimentary facts about their history, their government, or their sciences.

I don't think everyone should be taught Spanish. I think people should take whichever second language they choose and which the imperial federal government is going to force them to take in order to graduate from our imbecilic public high schools. No sense in forcing the whole nation to learn Spanish.

[Trish]

America is not largely bilingual because we are not a loose confederation of state sized countries, we are an immense nation that was built around the English language. Senator Obama should at least consider the differences in the two parts of the world he is conflating if he wishes to make a salient point.

You bring up a valid point, Boogy. However, much is changing. There are great chunks of America where English is seldom heard. Parts of Florida where native Floridians are moving out because most of business is now conducted in Spanish, not English and they feel they are strangers in their own land. It's the same here as well. Every town around here has its own "Little Mexico." Sections where Spanish is THE language spoken with many who speak no English at all.

As a nation we are quickly becoming a Spanish/English people. All our government forms are printed in both languages. Our products are boxed with instructions/information in both languages. We have SPanish radio stations, t.v. stations, etc. etc. Never before in the history of this country has one segment of its emigree population been catered to as has the Hispanic/Latino diaspora. They are not adapting to us - we are adapting to them.

This is a new trend. The immigrants of the past, even those of the large movements, were eager to learn English, eager to assimilate, learn English and "become" American, adding their cultural elements to the fabric of America. That's not so much the case now. Now the Hispanic/Latino culture is supplanting the American/English culture in many places. The number and size of those places are growing.

Senator Obama is correct. It is now necessary for our children to learn Spanish in order to communicate effectively in our society. I am in favor of Spanish, and other foreign languages, being mandatory and part of the regular curriculum in elementary school rather than high school. Younger children learn languages much easier than older people. We should take advantage of that ability and begin to teach our children from a very young age to be multilingual. Whether we like it or not - and let's face it, many do NOT like it - English alone is no longer a viable option for the citizens of this country.

[BoogyMan]

I have no problem at all with the idea that our children should learn more than one language. I simply wish that when a politician makes comments claiming that a lack of the ability to speak another language is embarrassing that he shows some understanding of the differences between the apples and oranges he is making his comparison from.

[preservanation]

I agree.

I think his statement is about being embarrassed by America, not speaking a foreign language.I have no problem at all with the idea that our children should learn more than one language. I simply wish that when a politician makes comments claiming that a lack of the ability to speak another language is embarrassing that he shows some understanding of the differences between the apples and oranges he is making his comparison from.This is exactly how I feel.
It stems from embarrassment of America.
Notice how he views Americans as rude, stupid, and hicks, clinging to our guns, religion, bigotry and now our ignorant language.
This dude is an elitist inexperienced radical lib, with no respect for the country which he claims to love and wants to lead.

Electing Obama POTUS would be like making Nader the CEO of Walmart.

[AnnEsthesia]

I can't tell you what the curriculum is in the entire U.S., but the High school that my nephew graduated from required them to complete 1 year of a foreign language.

It is being done, I can't tell you how widespread it is being done though.

We had to take and pass two years in high school and two years in college. In high school we could choose between spanish, french, latin, and german.

In college we could choose between those as well as portuguese, russian, japanese, and chinese.

[IndieVisible]

I agree with Obama totally on this one! American's by far are idiots when it comes to communicating. They can barely master one language and stop! Go any where in the world and you would be hard pressed to find some one who only speaks one language.

I love America! But that does not mean I can not try to improve it!

Поймите чего я значу?

[AnnEsthesia]

Leftist don't have the pride, so they must have the arrogance.

Now that is as ignorant a statement as I have seen yet.

[NIOSA]

I agree with Obama totally on this one! American's by far are idiots when it comes to communicating. They can barely master one language and stop! Go any where in the world and you would be hard pressed to find some one who only speaks one language.

I love America! But that does not mean I can not try to improve it!

Поймите чего я значу?

"American's by far are idiots....", isn't that a tad overblown? What do you base that on? Got any stats to back that up with? Do you have even a tiny clue as to how many languages are spoken in this country?
Do you know that Obama, the man that says he is embarrassed by Americans lack of speaking other languages can only speak limited Spanish &some bahasa?

[IndieVisible]

"American's by far are idiots....", isn't that a tad overblown? What do you base that on? Got any stats to back that up with? Do you have even a tiny clue as to how many languages are spoken in this country?

You can find stats and news articles to support what ever opinion you want. I base my opinion on my 40 years of travel through out the USA and EU. First hand experience! Not information handed to me.

I been to lower educated nations and found children 8 years old that could speak two languages. How is that possible? Their parents teach them! Now here we are suppose to have the "finest level" of education and most kids only master one language, english, and a lot still have trouble with it.

What would you prefer to call it?

[NIOSA]

You can find stats and news articles to support what ever opinion you want. I base my opinion on my 40 years of travel through out the USA and EU. First hand experience! Not information handed to me.

I been to lower educated nations and found children 8 years old that could speak two languages. How is that possible? Their parents teach them! Now here we are suppose to have the "finest level" of education and most kids only master one language, english, and a lot still have trouble with it.

What would you prefer to call it?

I have lived & traveled in many countries too & found that the people in those countries expected me to at least try to speak THEIR language. I agree with that. Why should people coming here not be expected to do the same?
What should you call it? "Idiots" is not the term one should use for people not learning another language. Maybe that's why you had so much trouble on "that" site. Just sayin....

[Deadshot]

I agree with NIOSA here. I think that if you're here you should try and learn the language, but it shouldn't be the end all be all of existance.

As to Indie's remarks, your experience does not come close to trumping valid source material or another's experience.

[IndieVisible]

I have lived & traveled in many countries too & found that the people in those countries expected me to at least try to speak THEIR language. I agree with that. Why should people coming here not be expected to do the same?
What should you call it? "Idiots" is not the term one should use for people not learning another language. Maybe that's why you had so much trouble on "that" site. Just sayin....

What other languages do you speak?

[AnnEsthesia]

Of course people should try to speak the language here... most immigrants do. Then you have people like my great grandparents who can understand English ok, but never learn the language. They led productive lives, they paid taxes, etc. But to some here, they should have been sent back to Italy and Poland because they did not learn to speak English.

[Deadshot]

Well, Indie, I speak French, a little Flemmish and a bare necessity of Spanish. But I'm college educated and have travelled in the EU too. Does that mean that I expect every Hispanic person here to speak English? No, I'd like them to try and learn some so that they can communicate in the most basic level, but if they don't I will make the effort to communicate with them.

[IndieVisible]

Well, Indie, I speak French, a little Flemmish and a bare necessity of Spanish. But I'm college educated and have travelled in the EU too. Does that mean that I expect every Hispanic person here to speak English? No, I'd like them to try and learn some so that they can communicate in the most basic level, but if they don't I will make the effort to communicate with them.

I don't believe Obama was suggesting otherwise either.

All I am saying is the man is right! There is nothing wrong with being bilingual. It should be encourged, not enforced. And dead, I never went to college and can speak 3 languages. Go to Serbia, you will find teens who can speak 3 languages, I am nothing special at all! Go to Greece, Russia, France, Spain, people speak more then just one language. Not all of course, but a lot do.

So Obama suggests the same and he is some how embarrassed of his country? Or is not patriotic? Or does not love America? He speaks truth! May be those critical of that are the one's embarrassed?

[Deadshot]

I'm not arguing with you Indie, I'm merely pointing out the obvious, some here do not see the need and do not learn our language. The EU is unique, compared to the USA. I live in Missouri, if there was another language spoken in Kansas and another in Iowa, I'd probably know three languages too, but it's not that way here.

The hispanics that live here would get alot farther and do so much better, if they would learn the language.

But I agree with you, Obama said nothing wrong, and I am doing all I can to have my daughters be bi-lingual to.

[Osborn F. Enready]

I think Obama should start talking Chinese, since that is who he is seemingly representing based on his ideals, legislative history, affinity towards collectivism.

[Deadshot]

I think Obama should start talking Chinese, since that is who he is seemingly representing based on his ideals, legislative history, affinity towards collectivism.

And Bush should start speaking Arabic, with McCain not knowing what to speak.

What's wrong with learning another language and culture?

[Osborn F. Enready]

Nothing Deadshot....I took German....

Wie Gehts, wohnst du auch hier in U.S.A?

My issue is with the IDEOLOGY, THE PHILOSOPHY behind the traitor.

[AnnEsthesia]

Leftist don't have the pride, so they must have the arrogance.

And Bush should start speaking Arabic, with McCain not knowing what to speak.

What's wrong with learning another language and culture?

Bush already speaks spanish with more fluency than he does english.

[IndieVisible]

I also agree that immigrants here, even the illegals, would be better off learning english.

Here is what I have trouble understanding about the American Right Wingers. Why do they always go crazy with these accusations about Democrats being liberal and commies? Should the Left Wingers accuse them of being fascist nazi's? Well if we follow their logic, we would be ok doing that, after all that's the direct they lean towards.

Even the most liberal of liberals in American politics are MILES and MILES away from communism.

[AnnEsthesia]

I also agree that immigrants here, even the illegals, would be better off learning english.

Here is what I have trouble understanding about the American Right Wingers. Why do they always go crazy with these accusations about Democrats being liberal and commies? Should the Left Wingers accuse them of being fascist nazi's? Well if we follow their logic, we would be ok doing that, after all that's the direct they lean towards.

Even the most liberal of liberals in American politics are MILES and MILES away from communism.

My thought about the bolded part above is because it has worked so well for them to use fear and labels to get people to agree with them. The difference being that now people have wised up and see through the fear mongering. :dizzy:

[Osborn F. Enready]

IndieVisible said:
Even the most liberal of liberals in American politics are MILES and MILES away from communism.

What are you drinking?

Modern liberalism, socialism, communism is all built around the same ideals.....

Wealth redistribuition, denial of self, denial of self-intrest, denial of individual rights, denial of human nature.

Capitalism is the exact opposite of all of the above.....
Capitalism embraces the self, self-intrest, individual rights, and human nature in all of its forms which VARY by the MEANS of self, values and subjectivity.

[Truth_and_Power]

What are you drinking?

Modern liberalism, socialism, communism is all built around the same ideals.....

Wealth redistribuition, denial of self, denial of self-intrest, denial of individual rights, denial of human nature.

Capitalism is the exact opposite of all of the above.....
Capitalism embraces the self, self-intrest, individual rights, and human nature in all of its forms which VARY by the MEANS of self, values and subjectivity.

Free markets and managed markets both have their downfalls and their extremes. Just because some things draw from the same ideas does not make them equal, it only makes them related. I can see where the libertarians are coming from with their opposition to the whole DoE, but to oppose a second language as an individual policy speaks purely to individual prejudices. As a previous poster noted (sorry forgot!) it will be much more useful in life than cursive writing. In the interests of full disclosure I failed handwriting a lot in elementary school despite extra practice.

[IndieVisible]

What are you drinking?

Modern liberalism, socialism, communism is all built around the same ideals.....

Wealth redistribuition, denial of self, denial of self-intrest, denial of individual rights, denial of human nature.

Capitalism is the exact opposite of all of the above.....
Capitalism embraces the self, self-intrest, individual rights, and human nature in all of its forms which VARY by the MEANS of self, values and subjectivity.

Sir with all due respect, you are clueless about socialism and communism if you think American Liberalism resembles any of that.

Should I accuse neocons of resembling a fascist nazi system?

[Osborn F. Enready]

Truth and Power said:
Free markets and managed markets both have their downfalls and their extremes. Just because some things draw from the same ideas does not make them equal, it only makes them related. I can see where the libertarians are coming from with their opposition to the whole DoE, but to oppose a second language as an individual policy speaks purely to individual prejudices.

No, it doesn't. It clearly speaks to the prejudice of Obama towards the hispanic community, a large portion of which he is seeking votes from.....mainly on his open border policy.

This nation has immigrants from EVERY nation on earth... why would we mandatorily teach SPANISH, when there are immigrants here now who already have the burden of learning two languages? (home language, as well as English)

Its pure political pandering to the spanish speaking immigrants of this nation by Obama....

I am all for multi-lingual citizens.... but not for FORCED multilingualism.

[Osborn F. Enready]

Indie said:
Sir with all due respect, you are clueless about socialism and communism if you think American Liberalism resembles any of that.

Bring it on.....

Start a thread and lets debate each other on the topic if you are so sure I don't know what I am talking about.....

So far, all I have seen from you is hollow regurgitation of American bi-partisan propaganda.

[NIOSA]

What other languages do you speak?

& if I said "none", would that make me an idiot? :rolleyes:
I speak a smattering of a couple of languages, enough to get by if called for.
How about you? I noticed in your introduction thread that you seemed to have a struggle with either pronouncing or spelling certain words....or was that fake?

[IndieVisible]

& if I said "none", would that make me an idiot? :rolleyes:
I speak a smattering of a couple of languages, enough to get by if called for.
How about you? I noticed in your introduction thread that you seemed to have a struggle with either pronouncing or spelling certain words....or was that fake?

LOL. Yes fake. I enjoy appearing uneducated.

I speak 3 languages, but master of none. But I got a HUGE deck!

[NIOSA]

LOL. Yes fake. I enjoy appearing uneducated.

I speak 3 languages, but master of none. But I got a HUGE deck!

:madlaugh:

[potter]

Capitalism is the exact opposite of all of the above.....
Capitalism embraces the self, self-intrest, individual rights, and human nature in all of its forms which VARY by the MEANS of self, values and subjectivity.


The end result of American style capitalism though seems to be elimination of all competition resulting in lack of choice and ingenuity.

We used to have dozens of grocers here in my community. Now we are down to two...Wall Mart and Dillions. The can charge anything they want, and they do.

We used to have 10 or so hardware stores, now we have Loews and Builder Square.

We used to have four independent media sources. Now we have one.

The examples are many. Few local businesses left. Mostly large comglomerates and they are battling it out. Some day it will be Wall mart and Lowes.

Once that happens all safety and pricing concerns are pretty much whatever the remaining company wants to do.

And also once that happens is these mega businesses tend to start writing the laws.

Locally the lage automobile dealers wanted to close on Sundays, so they got the legislature to pass a law saying no Sunday auto sales...so they wouldn't have the independents open when they were closed.

Capitalism is OK, but unregulated it's nothing more than corporate tyranny.

As always, moderation in all things.

[IndieVisible]

The end result of American style capitalism though seems to be elimination of all competition resulting in lack of choice and ingenuity.

We used to have dozens of grocers here in my community. Now we are down to two...Wall Mart and Dillions. The can charge anything they want, and they do.

We used to have 10 or so hardware stores, now we have Loews and Builder Square.

We used to have four independent media sources. Now we have one.

The examples are many. Few local businesses left. Mostly large comglomerates and they are battling it out. Some day it will be Wall mart and Lowes.

Once that happens all safety and pricing concerns are pretty much whatever the remaining company wants to do.

And also once that happens is these mega businesses tend to start writing the laws.

Locally the lage automobile dealers wanted to close on Sundays, so they got the legislature to pass a law saying no Sunday auto sales...so they wouldn't have the independents open when they were closed.

Capitalism is OK, but unregulated it's nothing more than corporate tyranny.

As always, moderation in all things.

I agree with you! the rich get richer, poor get poorer under current system.

[potter]

I agree with you! the rich get richer, poor get poorer under current system.


Wel...that also seems to be happening to an extent. Things sure took a turn in the 70's anyway....My point was more that unregulated capitalism seems to be having the opposite of the intended effect.

Deregulating the airline industry didn't work.

Deregulating the financial industry didn't work.

What next?

Degregulation would probably work if everyone had honorable intentions..but obviously greed trumps honor most of the time w'regard to business.

[Hurricane]

& people that come here expecting us to learn their language are just as arrogant. When we lived abroad we learned to speak at least enough to get by, we did not presume that they would "pander" to us, i expect no less when foreigners come to the US.

Living in Miami, if you don't know Spanish it is very difficult to get around in the city. 8th Street barely knows English.. they've never been required to learn. The government here coordinates in English and Spanish and its very inefficient... people look at you funny when you speak in English at a Cuban restaurant even.

[Osborn F. Enready]

Potter said:
The end result of American style capitalism though seems to be elimination of all competition resulting in lack of choice and ingenuity.

Yes, if you talk of American MONOPOLY capitalism, it surely does put power squarely in the hands of multi-national corporations. Do you know the difference between a multi-national and a national corporation?

Monopoly Capitalism and Laissez Faire Capitalism are not even close to the same thing Potter. One is regulated equally by individual rights, the other is regulated favoring producers and market share holders.

Potter said:
We used to have dozens of grocers here in my community. Now we are down to two...Wall Mart and Dillions. The can charge anything they want, and they do.

Welcome to monopoly capitalism.

Potter said:
We used to have 10 or so hardware stores, now we have Loews and Builder Square.

We used to have four independent media sources. Now we have one.

The examples are many. Few local businesses left. Mostly large comglomerates and they are battling it out. Some day it will be Wall mart and Lowes.

Do you think it has anything to do with their special intrest lobbies owning the government? Ever notice the same monopoly on power? (two choices of equal corruption and lack of substance)

Monopoly capitalism begest monopoly government.

The biggest irritation to me is that people can't see the difference between TRUE American capitalism as founded, and current monopoly capitalism......

Potter said:
Once that happens all safety and pricing concerns are pretty much whatever the remaining company wants to do.

And also once that happens is these mega businesses tend to start writing the laws.

They got to be mega businesses by writing the laws.

Potter said:
Locally the lage automobile dealers wanted to close on Sundays, so they got the legislature to pass a law saying no Sunday auto sales...so they wouldn't have the independents open when they were closed.

Capitalism is OK, but unregulated it's nothing more than corporate tyranny.

You confuse me potter.....

You provide a crystal clear example of REGULATION being used to destroy the market on Sundays on the behest of major monopoly dealers in the area refusing rights to small independents to sell on Sunday.... and then say its a LACK of regulation that is to blame.


People always fail to see that WITHOUT REGULATION, THERE CAN BE NO MONOPOLY.

A monopoly is a SIGN that REGULATION IS FAILING.

Potter said:
As always, moderation in all things.

Moderation in all things is a good way to do things, for yourself.

REgulating moderation from government only brings about a monopoly of moderation, with no excess to be found anywhere.

Last I checked, most times in my life I really enjoyed were coupled with times of excess of one form or another.....

[Shoey]

We are supposed to be training our kids for the future. The future is dictating that we need bilingual people to compete internationally.

So the you and I would agree our public school systems must educate kids that do not speak english and teach them how to speak proper english in elementary school, which by the way is our native tongue in America, correct? It cuts both ways! Teach the Mexican children how to speak english I say.



Hell even when I was in school decades back it was required we take a year and a half of a foreign language.

When I went to school foreign language(s) were alternative courses, not manditory. (1980's)

[Muser]

Now here we are suppose to have the "finest level" of education and most kids only master one language, english, and a lot still have trouble with it.

Hey, I have an idea. Let's use that same piss-poor educational system that teaches them crap English[1] and use it to teach them a foreign language and believe we'll see stellar results!

Focusing solely on foreign language while completely ignoring the very real and tragic conditions of our public school system is a phenomenal waste of valuable time and energy (not to mention our kids' futures). Fix the critical fundamentals and framework first.

This discussion reminds me of a broken-down house; the foundation's cracked and broken apart and the house keeps slowly sliding down the hill - and people think adding some nice new windows will fix everything all up.

[1] And crap math and crap science and crap geography

[Muser]

As always, moderation in all things.

Including moderation? ;)

[4Reaganomics]

Our kids should be learning about trade models and price indexes, not an inferior language.

[potter]

Yes, if you talk of American MONOPOLY capitalism, it surely does put power squarely in the hands of multi-national corporations. Do you know the difference between a multi-national and a national corporation?

Monopoly Capitalism and Laissez Faire Capitalism are not even close to the same thing Potter. One is regulated equally by individual rights, the other is regulated favoring producers and market share holders.



Welcome to monopoly capitalism.



Do you think it has anything to do with their special intrest lobbies owning the government? Ever notice the same monopoly on power? (two choices of equal corruption and lack of substance)

Monopoly capitalism begest monopoly government.

The biggest irritation to me is that people can't see the difference between TRUE American capitalism as founded, and current monopoly capitalism......



They got to be mega businesses by writing the laws.



You confuse me potter.....

You provide a crystal clear example of REGULATION being used to destroy the market on Sundays on the behest of major monopoly dealers in the area refusing rights to small independents to sell on Sunday.... and then say its a LACK of regulation that is to blame.


People always fail to see that WITHOUT REGULATION, THERE CAN BE NO MONOPOLY.

A monopoly is a SIGN that REGULATION IS FAILING.



Moderation in all things is a good way to do things, for yourself.

REgulating moderation from government only brings about a monopoly of moderation, with no excess to be found anywhere.

Last I checked, most times in my life I really enjoyed were coupled with times of excess of one form or another.....


Let me give this some thought Osborn. It's all pretty confusing. I don't trust capitalists...but then I also don't trust government. Neither seems to have a soul.

LOL at that last line...I hear ya.......

[brien]

His arrogance aside for a moment, this was nothing more than a play for the NEA. If he pushes bi-lingual education, we need to hire a whole bunch of teachers to do the job.

More teachers, means more money for the NEA.

More money for the NEA means more money for Obama.

See how that works?

This is true but also consider the following. The fact is, the NEA is overwhelmingly controlled by the Democrat Party, so how is, since they control the schools for the last 50 years, they haven't succeeded in teaching a second language to their students? They need to answer for Obama's embarrassment here.

Obama is indicting his own Democrat Party, vis a vis the NEA, and most people aren't sharp enough to even realize this. It is the fault of the teachers, who are controlled by the Democrat NEA who have failed here, not the students. Obama only embarrasses himself and his own Party, not the America I know.

[Wndrtch]

This is true but also consider the following. The fact is, the NEA is overwhelmingly controlled by the Democrat Party, so how is, since they control the schools for the last 50 years, they haven't succeeded in teaching a second language to their students? They need to answer for Obama's embarrassment here.

Many teachers don't speak english well enough to pass a standardized test, let alone teach a second laguage.

p_ve37gVwxw

In order to incorporate bi-lingual classes, you need to hire more teachers to do it. That is where the NEA takes cover from. They can always blame a lack of funds on Republicans.

[Muser]

This is true but also consider the following. The fact is, the NEA is overwhelmingly controlled by the Democrat Party, so how is, since they control the schools for the last 50 years, they haven't succeeded in teaching a second language to their students? They need to answer for Obama's embarrassment here.

Obama is indicting his own Democrat Party, vis a vis the NEA, and most people aren't sharp enough to even realize this. It is the fault of the teachers, who are controlled by the Democrat NEA who have failed here, not the students. Obama only embarrasses himself and his own Party, not the America I know.

And everybody went, "Ooooo, SNAP!" :clapper:

Excellent response, and not without merit, but I know you know it's slightly more complex than just that.

I'd like to throw out some food for thought, which I don't consider to be off-topic; I'd be very interested in feedback from educators on the board, or anyone else with a sincere interest:

How to fix our public schools (http://skirsch.com/politics/education/fix_our_schools_details.htm)

Particularly this idea. Seems like a no-brainer to me:

To fix America's schools, the safest and most reliable approach is to start by copying what works in other countries. We don't need rocket science to fix our problem. No new technological breakthroughs are necessary. No new paradigms for instruction need be invented. We don't have to wire our schools for the Internet. We don't have to buy all our kids computers. We don't have to spend a lot more money. It's simpler than that. The solution is straightforward: you study other countries to find out why they succeed and then you implement those techniques (with those changes which are necessary due to cultural differences) in the US. We've already done the first part: NCEE (a non-profit funded by Carnegie and Pew) studied the educational system in the most successful countries for 11 years so they know the answer. Others have figured it out too, such as the state of Minnesota (see below for a hyperlink). But (with the exception of the 200 public schools in the US that have adopted the NCEE program) we haven't done the implementation part. It's no harder than this: You copy what works.

[Wndrtch]

And everybody went, "Ooooo, SNAP!" :clapper:

Excellent response, and not without merit, but I know you know it's slightly more complex than just that.

I'd like to throw out some food for thought, which I don't consider to be off-topic; I'd be very interested in feedback from educators on the board, or anyone else with a sincere interest:

How to fix our public schools (http://skirsch.com/politics/education/fix_our_schools_details.htm)

Particularly this idea. Seems like a no-brainer to me:

How do you define "succesful"? Most Natoins around the World are far less fortunate than America. Higher unemployment, 50%+ taxation, $5-10 gas prices, higher infant mortality rates, etc...

I used to entertain many internationals for our business, and without a doubt, they almost all said that America was the best soceity in the World, not because it's best at everything, but because it's pretty good at most things. We are the dominate military force, we have the best healthcare, most of the time we have the best economy. Overall, we have the highest quality of life.

[NIOSA]

Living in Miami, if you don't know Spanish it is very difficult to get around in the city. 8th Street barely knows English.. they've never been required to learn. The government here coordinates in English and Spanish and its very inefficient... people look at you funny when you speak in English at a Cuban restaurant even.

I live in San Antonio, Tx, I know what you mean about the gov't co-ordinating everything in Spanish. Many jobs here require that you speak Spanish as well as English. It's BS, IMO.

[Hurricane]

I live in San Antonio, Tx, I know what you mean about the gov't co-ordinating everything in Spanish. Many jobs here require that you speak Spanish as well as English. It's BS, IMO.

I completely agree. You can find a job in Miami without knowing English. Setting English as the national language will help Americanize immigrants and force them to get past the language barrier.. Many immigrants won't learn English if they don't have to.

[potter]

This is true but also consider the following. The fact is, the NEA is overwhelmingly controlled by the Democrat Party, so how is, since they control the schools for the last 50 years, they haven't succeeded in teaching a second language to their students? They need to answer for Obama's embarrassment here.

Obama is indicting his own Democrat Party, vis a vis the NEA, and most people aren't sharp enough to even realize this. It is the fault of the teachers, who are controlled by the Democrat NEA who have failed here, not the students. Obama only embarrasses himself and his own Party, not the America I know.


I'm not sure how it works in your neck of the woods, but here in Kansas the school board is elected during general elections and they set the curriculum, not the politicans. Sure...we get a radical zinger in there every now and again (the intelligent design embarassment) but we were able to root that out quick enough.

[Osborn F. Enready]

Potter said:
I'm not sure how it works in your neck of the woods, but here in Kansas the school board is elected during general elections and they set the curriculum, not the politicans. Sure...we get a radical zinger in there every now and again (the intelligent design embarassment) but we were able to root that out quick enough.

How much of that board and the people doing the electing are Republicans and Democrats?.....

[potter]

How much of that board and the people doing the electing are Republicans and Democrats?.....

This is Kansas...damn Osborn...do ya always have to make a good point?

[Shoey]

I'm not sure how it works in your neck of the woods, but here in Kansas the school board is elected during general elections and they set the curriculum, not the politicans. Sure...we get a radical zinger in there every now and again (the intelligent design embarassment) but we were able to root that out quick enough.

Not to change the topic but "Intelligent Design" embarassment? I suppose you endorse the secular(Left) humanist agenda to indoctrinate our children in our public school systems with man made up "theories"? (Evolution = Origin Of Man)

[Osborn F. Enready]

Shoey, there are many threads on the BS involved in "Intelligent Design", please don't pollute this one with that argument also. ;)

[potter]

Not to change the topic


Then dont...... :blah:

[Shoey]

Shoey, there are many threads on the BS involved in "Intelligent Design", please don't pollute this one with that argument also. ;)


OK, sorry Osborn. Please warn Potter to stay on topic please in public forum.

[Osborn F. Enready]

NP Shoey.... no bias here....

Potter, quit it... ;)

[Think for myself]

OK, sorry Osborn. Please warn Potter to stay on topic please in public forum.

Well who the hell died and made you moderator?

[Think for myself]

So the you and I would agree our public school systems must educate kids that do not speak english and teach them how to speak proper english in elementary school, which by the way is our native tongue in America, correct?

It is? I would have expected our native tongue to be one of the indigenous languages. Seeing how America has no official language, how can English be the "native" language?

You know, there's a saying in Europe.

If you speak three languages you are trilingual.
If you speak two languages you are bilingual.
If you speak one you are American.







When I went to school foreign language(s) were alternative courses, not manditory. (1980's)


Maybe English should have been "manditory" in your school.

[Shoey]

Well who the hell died and made you moderator?

Krist take a hike, who and the hell appointed you "dictator" at DF? I'm guessing nobody. :nana:

[Think for myself]

Krist take a hike, who and the hell appointed you "dictator" at DF? I'm guessing nobody. :nana:

Seems to me you just took the lord's name in vain. Interesting.

[Osborn F. Enready]

Think for myself said:
Well who the hell died and made you moderator?

I am no moderator, but I do have a sense of h