Police Say Georgia Man Killed Own Daughter to Protect Family Honor (Title Changed)

[apdst]

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,377044,00.html

Police Say Georgia Man Killed Own Daughter to Protect Family Honor
Monday, July 07, 2008


Chaudhry Rashad accused of killing his own daughter for dishonoring family.
A Georgia man appeared in court Monday on charges he killed his own daughter for disgracing his family.

54-year-old Chaudhry Rashad, wearing a red jumpsuit and shackles around his ankles, went before Chief Judge Daphne Walker at the Clayton County Magistrate Court.

Rashad, who is of Pakistani descent, kept his head down as charges were read, and appeared to have difficulty understanding instructions from the judge, possibly the effect of a language barrier.

His two sons were also in attendance, watching their father from seats in the rear of the courtroom, joined by two others. Rashad waved to their corner as he shuffled out, bound by the shackles.

Police said Rashad was so angered that his daughter, Sandela Kanwal, planned to divorce her arranged-marriage husband that he killed her after a heated argument at the family's home, FOX News affiliate MyFoxAtlanta reported. Rashad reportedly used a bungee cord in the attack.

Police who arrived at the scene said they found Rashad's two sons at the end of the driveway and their father smoking a cigarette in the garage. After entering the home, Kanwal's body was discovered in the bathtub, cold to the touch, officials said.


The news shocked neighbors and family friends.

"The family is very upset and stressed," said Shahid Malik of the Pakistani American Community of Atlanta. Malik told MyFoxAtlanta that he met with the family Sunday and said they were all traumatized.

Police said Kanwal hadn't seen her husband, who lives in Chicago, for months.

Rashad will be back in court Tuesday at 1:30 p.m. EDT. His bond hearing is scheduled for July 25 at 8 a.m., with a preliminary hearing July 24.

[micfranklin]

Do you think if you keep trying to pin a whole religion on a few individuals people will be convinced it's evil?

[apdst]

Do you think if you keep trying to pin a whole religion on a few individuals people will be convinced it's evil?

This dude just got up one morning and decided that his daughter should die because she wanted to get a divorce? His cultural and religious up-bringing had nothing to do with it??

[micfranklin]

This dude just got up one morning and decided that his daughter should die because she wanted to get a divorce? His cultural and religious up-bringing had nothing to do with it??

That isn't what I asked though and I didn't say anything about this upbringing. Now let me ask again, do you think if you keep trying to pin a whole religion on a few individuals people will be convinced it's evil?

[Wndrtch]

Do you think if you keep trying to pin a whole religion on a few individuals people will be convinced it's evil?

In many ME and Arab lands, this is acceptible as "law".

Some of us want that changed.

[micfranklin]

In many ME and Arab lands, this is acceptible as "law".

Some of us want that changed.

I just remembered that this is America, however. You can't do that and get away with it here.

[apdst]

I just remembered that this is America, however. You can't do that and get away with it here.

And the Muslims wanna change that.

[micfranklin]

And the Muslims wanna change that.

Which Muslims?

[apdst]

All Muslims.

[Alonzo]

It's not "law" in any muslim country. It's accepted by some local rural courts, but it's not official law, or supported by the high courts, in any country.

Though I used to know a guy who always made "religion of peace" threads. These threads remind me of him.

[Wndrtch]

I just remembered that this is America, however. You can't do that and get away with it here.

Should you be able to "get away with it" anywhere?

[Alonzo]

All Muslims.

Are you trolling for a response? Or do you genuinely believe that? I don't even think Limbaugh believes that.

[micfranklin]

All Muslims.

And where do you find these testimonies that say all Muslims want to change America, oh wise one?

[micfranklin]

Should you be able to "get away with it" anywhere?

Of course not.

[apdst]

Or do you genuinely believe that? I don't even think Limbaugh believes that.

I guess you're right. Afterall, there are good Nazis and bad Nazis; good klansmen and bad klansmen.

[DamnYankee]

ALL Muslims need to have cultural sensitivity training as a condition of immigration into the US. If they fail, they don't get to come. Period. Ever.

[DamnYankee]

Do you think if you keep trying to pin a whole religion on a few individuals people will be convinced it's evil?

What's "a few" mean to you?

[apdst]

Do you think if you keep trying to pin a whole religion on a few individuals people will be convinced it's evil?

Dudes like this aren't the minority.

[micfranklin]

What's "a few" mean to you?

Not the majority, as many seem of you seem to think.

ALL Muslims need to have cultural sensitivity training as a condition of immigration into the US. If they fail, they don't get to come. Period. Ever.

Didn't know you advocated racism and bigotry.

[DamnYankee]

Not the majority, as many seem of you seem to think.

So what is "a few" then?

[DamnYankee]

Didn't know you advocated racism and bigotry.

Prove it.

[micfranklin]

So what is "a few" then?

Not the majority, less than a third if you want me to be precise.

Prove it.

Well just a couple of posts ago, you hinted that you don't seem to want to shower other groups of people with the same nonsense you would with Muslims.

[DamnYankee]

Not the majority, less than a third if you want me to be precise.

So about 300,000,000 muslims? WOW that's a few?

Well just a couple of posts ago, you hinted that you don't seem to want to shower other groups of people with the same nonsense you would with Muslims.

We weren't talking about "other groups of people" we were talking about muslims.

[Elrathin]

MOD MESSAGE: Title Changed per rule

10. All thread titles must be accurate to the post.

[apdst]

Title changed? That's so chickenshit. Then again, look who did it.

[Phyxius]

All Muslims.

And booger-eatin' rednecks. I mean, hey - it WAS Georgia, after all... :madlaugh:

[heyjude]

I am interested in where the idea came from that the father killed his daughter to protect his family honor. There was nothing I read that said that. He killed her, apparently, and did so in the midst of an argument, but where does it say he did it for that reason? For the record, more than a few Americans of European descent kill someone while arguing with them.

[apdst]

I am interested in where the idea came from that the father killed his daughter to protect his family honor.

Did you read the article?

[cronic]

well,,.. all I would like to say is.. I could care less of his religion or where he comes from..

IMO he committed murder and I hope he sits and rots in a cage for the rest of his life..
I also hope he lives for a long time rotting in that cage.

Anyone know (not that I can't google my answer).. does Georgia have the death penalty?

[Phyxius]

well,,.. all I would like to say is.. I could care less of his religion or where he comes from..

IMO he committed murder and I hope he sits and rots in a cage for the rest of his life..
I also hope he lives for a long time rotting in that cage.

Anyone know (not that I can't google my answer).. does Georgia have the death penalty?

Uhhhh... yeah.

[micfranklin]

So about 300,000,000 muslims? WOW that's a few?

Less than a third, a lot less.

We weren't talking about "other groups of people" we were talking about muslims.

So why do only Muslims need sensitivity courses or whatever? Not every Muslim acts like that, just like not every black person is a crack-smoking drug dealer.

[AnnEsthesia]

I would say that people who view all members of any group as being exactly the same need a few courses themselves.

[apdst]

I would say that people who view all members of any group as being exactly the same need a few courses themselves.

That's hillarious coming from a Liberal. I mean, it really fuckin' is.

[AnnEsthesia]

Actually, I am certainly more liberal than you, but if you wish to label me, at least be accurate and call me a centrist. Thanks.

[lily]

Police said Rashad was so angered that his daughter, Sandela Kanwal, planned to divorce her arranged-marriage husband that he killed her after a heated argument at the family's home, FOX News affiliate MyFoxAtlanta reported. Rashad reportedly used a bungee cord in the attack.

I still don't see where this is either a Muslim thing or an honor killing?

[micfranklin]

Because only Muslims are irrational enough to do honor killings and need sensitivity training, and only for Muslims are broad, baseless generalizations alright to make. Durhhh!!

[DamnYankee]

Less than a third, a lot less.

So now it's "a lot less." 150,000,000? Is that a few?

So why do only Muslims need sensitivity courses or whatever? Not every Muslim acts like that, just like not every black person is a crack-smoking drug dealer.

Okay, fair enough. You want to talk about "other groups" then everyone who immigrates has to take cultural sensitivity. We want immigrants to know that murdering people because they want a divorce or some religious hangup they harbor isn't justifiable homicide.

What they ought to do with this dude is offer him a deal. Immediate deportation or prison then deportation.

[DamnYankee]

I would say that people who view all members of any group as being exactly the same need a few courses themselves.

Okay. All leftist go first.

[micfranklin]

So now it's "a lot less." 150,000,000? Is that a few?

Nope, try going down...again.

Okay, fair enough. You want to talk about "other groups" then everyone who immigrates has to take cultural sensitivity. We want immigrants to know that murdering people because they want a divorce or some religious hangup they harbor isn't justifiable homicide.

What they ought to do with this dude is offer him a deal. Immediate deportation or prison then deportation.

Teaching them that murdering for religious or any reason is wrong, okay, that can be done. Forcing all immigrants to be culturally sensitive, not okay because that would mean getting rid of all their other customs, even the ones that don't inflict harm on anyone.

[DamnYankee]

Teaching them that murdering for religious or any reason is wrong, okay, that can be done. Forcing all immigrants to be culturally sensitive, not okay because that would mean getting rid of all their other customs, even the ones that don't inflict harm on anyone.

Cultural sensitivity training isn't designed to rid everyone of their customs.

It's designed to teach a student to be sensitive to others culture for example; You cannot murder your daughter because she wants a divorce in the US.

[Invayne]

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,377044,00.html

Police Say Georgia Man Killed Own Daughter to Protect Family Honor
Monday, July 07, 2008


Chaudhry Rashad accused of killing his own daughter for dishonoring family.
A Georgia man appeared in court Monday on charges he killed his own daughter for disgracing his family.

54-year-old Chaudhry Rashad, wearing a red jumpsuit and shackles around his ankles, went before Chief Judge Daphne Walker at the Clayton County Magistrate Court.

Rashad, who is of Pakistani descent, kept his head down as charges were read, and appeared to have difficulty understanding instructions from the judge, possibly the effect of a language barrier.

His two sons were also in attendance, watching their father from seats in the rear of the courtroom, joined by two others. Rashad waved to their corner as he shuffled out, bound by the shackles.

Police said Rashad was so angered that his daughter, Sandela Kanwal, planned to divorce her arranged-marriage husband that he killed her after a heated argument at the family's home, FOX News affiliate MyFoxAtlanta reported. Rashad reportedly used a bungee cord in the attack.

Police who arrived at the scene said they found Rashad's two sons at the end of the driveway and their father smoking a cigarette in the garage. After entering the home, Kanwal's body was discovered in the bathtub, cold to the touch, officials said.


The news shocked neighbors and family friends.

"The family is very upset and stressed," said Shahid Malik of the Pakistani American Community of Atlanta. Malik told MyFoxAtlanta that he met with the family Sunday and said they were all traumatized.

Police said Kanwal hadn't seen her husband, who lives in Chicago, for months.

Rashad will be back in court Tuesday at 1:30 p.m. EDT. His bond hearing is scheduled for July 25 at 8 a.m., with a preliminary hearing July 24.

When are these fools going to realize that WE don't put up with that shit HERE? These people need to go back where they came from if they want to practice their archaic laws and culture.

[AnnEsthesia]

Okay. All leftist go first.

"All leftists" are not the same, a fact which many of you here seem to conveniently overlook. (Not to mention that not everyone you label as "leftist" really is one.)

[Invayne]

It's not "law" in any muslim country. It's accepted by some local rural courts, but it's not official law, or supported by the high courts, in any country.

Though I used to know a guy who always made "religion of peace" threads. These threads remind me of him.

No, it should remind you how UNpeaceful the Religion of Pieces is.

[Invayne]

ALL Muslims need to have cultural sensitivity training as a condition of immigration into the US. If they fail, they don't get to come. Period. Ever.

Good idea! But then you have that little thing called Taqqiya, where it's cool to lie.

[micfranklin]

No, it should remind you how UNpeaceful the Religion of Pieces is.

How many times do we have to say one individual doesn't represent the whole?

[Invayne]

Less than a third, a lot less.



So why do only Muslims need sensitivity courses or whatever? Not every Muslim acts like that, just like not every black person is a crack-smoking drug dealer.

WTF? WE are expected to have sensitivity courses...the same should go for them. If they want to come to our country, they need to live by OUR laws. Period.

[micfranklin]

WTF? WE are expected to have sensitivity courses...the same should go for them. If they want to come to our country, they need to live by OUR laws. Period.

Since when are we expected to have sensitivity courses?

[AnnEsthesia]

WTF? WE are expected to have sensitivity courses...the same should go for them. If they want to come to our country, they need to live by OUR laws. Period.

Did you miss the fact that the man was arrested?

[Invayne]

I would say that people who view all members of any group as being exactly the same need a few courses themselves.

Yes, and I'm sure you generalize about conservatives too, just like any other leftist does.

[Invayne]

How many times do we have to say one individual doesn't represent the whole?

And how many times are you going to apologize for the barbaric behavior?

I know they're not ALL like that...what difference does it make?

[micfranklin]

And how many times are you going to apologize for the barbaric behavior?

I know they're not ALL like that...what difference does it make?

When did I ever hint that that type of behavior was okay?

[AnnEsthesia]

Yes, and I'm sure you generalize about conservatives too, just like any other leftist does.

Not really and I am not a "leftist", I am a centrist. If you are going to label me, make sure you are at least getting it right.

[Invayne]

Since when are we expected to have sensitivity courses?

Police officers and others like that....

[Invayne]

Did you miss the fact that the man was arrested?

Um, no. But somebody had to die first for no reason because that is CUSTOM where he comes from. He should have known we don't do that HERE.

[micfranklin]

Police officers and others like that....

That's not a sensitivity course that's a law enforcement course. So since when do we need things like sensitvity courses?

[AnnEsthesia]

Um, no. But somebody had to die first for no reason because that is CUSTOM where he comes from. He should have known we don't do that HERE.

So no one who is not pakistani ever kills a family member in the us while in a fight?

[Invayne]

When did I ever hint that that type of behavior was okay?

You didn't say it was OK, you're basically saying that it shouldn't be talked about. We can't talk about the bad things that are Muslim culture and laws. Nowhere in the OP do I see where he said anything about their religion. YOU are the one that brought it up.

[Invayne]

Not really and I am not a "leftist", I am a centrist. If you are going to label me, make sure you are at least getting it right.

My apologies then.

[Invayne]

That's not a sensitivity course that's a law enforcement course. So since when do we need things like sensitvity courses?

You've never heard of the sensitivity training that airport screeners have to go through? Please...

[Elrathin]

You didn't say it was OK, you're basically saying that it shouldn't be talked about. We can't talk about the bad things that are Muslim culture and laws. Nowhere in the OP do I see where he said anything about their religion. YOU are the one that brought it up.

WRONG, noone is saying you can't talk about bad things. We are saying when people try to pin that on ALL Muslims, that is wrong.

That is like saying ALL conservatives are child molesting gay closet cases.

[Invayne]

So no one who is not pakistani ever kills a family member in the us while in a fight?

It's an Honor Killing. The man said it himself. Read the article again.

[micfranklin]

You didn't say it was OK, you're basically saying that it shouldn't be talked about. We can't talk about the bad things that are Muslim culture and laws. Nowhere in the OP do I see where he said anything about their religion. YOU are the one that brought it up.

Now when did I say this shouldn't be talked about, tell me that. And as for the OP I brought it up because for those who have been around long the whole theme of threads like this is to try and generalize about the whole religion despite the fact that whatever's posted is only about one individual or a tiny group.

Obviously certain people have problems with Muslims, some of them happen to be conservatives too.

Here I even have an earlier example of this same type of subject:
http://www.democracyforums.com/showthread.php?t=14954

[Elrathin]

You've never heard of the sensitivity training that airport screeners have to go through? Please...

That's because they are in the /drumroll please....... SERVICE INDUSTRY. Wow, they deal with people on a daily basis. Imagine a company wanting their workers that deal with people to not be condescending bigoted jerks. Imagine that? What a surprise.

Here's a hint, almost every big company that deals with people on a daily basis have sensitivity training. But if you aren't in one of those fields you are NOT required to attend it.

So why would you ask EVERY immigrant that comes to America to go through that when all of America doesn't have to?

[micfranklin]

You've never heard of the sensitivity training that airport screeners have to go through? Please...

That's not sensitivity training either, that's screening.

[hungarianflower]

ALL Muslims need to have cultural sensitivity training as a condition of immigration into the US. If they fail, they don't get to come. Period. Ever.

That's actually a great idea.

[Elrathin]

That's not sensitivity training either, that's screening.

Part of that training is in sensitivity, especially dealing with searching people.

[Alonzo]

That's actually a great idea.

So it's a good idea to have different standards for Muslim immigrants than for everyone else?

[AnnEsthesia]

It's an Honor Killing. The man said it himself. Read the article again.

Where did it say it was an honor killing, other than in the Fox News commentary.

He admitted he was angry because she wanted a divorce and he killed her during the fight. Many men kill daughters/wives/lovers during fights over things they are upset about. That does not make it an honor killing.

[Invayne]

Now when did I say this shouldn't be talked about, tell me that. And as for the OP I brought it up because for those who have been around long the whole theme of threads like this is to try and generalize about the whole religion despite the fact that whatever's posted is only about one individual or a tiny group.

Obviously certain people have problems with Muslims, some of them happen to be conservatives too.

Here I even have an earlier example of this same type of subject:
http://www.democracyforums.com/showthread.php?t=14954

Yes, and post#3 pretty much spells it out:



Quote:
Originally Posted by PatrickHenry
Which has exactly what to do with your topic title, apdst?

This is FP (for a lying title) unless you wish to make a point about the man's religion which is absent in the quoted article.
Well it sorta does by the quote below.

Quote:
“He yelled ‘Allahu akhbar!’ and hit the gas,” Mr Plesser said
Which I think translates into something like "Allah is the Greatest" or something like that. Jafar would probably know for sure, I'm not good with translations.

It's hinting that he did this for his religion.


Honor killings are a custom in Islamic countries...I'm not sure if ALL of them practice it, but some certainly do. He brought that part of his life over to the US, and that shit doesn't float here.

[heyjude]

I have read the article three times and it does not say that the man said anything. It says the police said it was an honor killing. The police are not known for their lack of bigotry, for their sensitivity, nor for their honesty. If you have nothing but "the police said," IMO, you have nothing.

[micfranklin]

Damn, I just read the article again and HJ's got it right.

[jafar00]

Honor killings are a custom in Islamic countries...I'm not sure if ALL of them practice it, but some certainly do. He brought that part of his life over to the US, and that shit doesn't float here.

Honour killings also happen in Brazil, Guatemala, Venezuela, Peru etc... It's not an Islamic thing, it's far older and across many cultures. Try not to be so narrow in your thinking. :p

[AnnEsthesia]

It also happens in the US, though we call it domestic violence instead.

[Osborn F. Enready]

This is the result of people viewing others as "lower" than themselves.

Its a natural result of generations of bias, and cultural stigma, that places women below just about anything, including some animals, unless they birth a boy.

[Muser]

It also happens in the US, though we call it domestic violence instead.

You're neglecting a MAJOR fundamental difference, however: it is not a legally accepted or condoned practice within USian culture - unlike Pakistan, which is where this Rashid creature hails from.

Rashid has not yet had his day in court - but assuming he's found guilty of this murder, there's no doubt in my mind it was a result of Pakistan's Karo Kari - these murders occur with shocking frequency in Pakistani culture, and with legal sanction (or at the very least, with a deliberate turning of a blind eye). See http://www.ansarburney.org/womens_rights-karo_kari.html
(http://www.ansarburney.org/womens_rights-karo_kari.html)
It's fair to say that honor killings are not sactioned by any religion, but rather stem from ancient patriarchal systems and cultural traditions that regard family matters as domain of the tribe rather than the state. That they would seem to occur more often within Islamic cultures (or amongst people raised in that culture) has a great deal more to do with the generally-accepted attitudes and beliefs about women and their inferiority to men, i.e. property to be controlled and subjugated, unequal rights and punishment, etc. To be fair, India's Hindu culture is none-too-friendly towards women, either.

Clash of culture, as it were. Rashid has acted upon his culturally-accepted practices - now the US legal system will act upon theirs. One thing it should NOT do is treat this man differently from the rest of the prisoners - his request (http://www.ajc.com/news/content/metro/clayton/stories/2008/07/08/clayton_daughter_killed.html?cxntlid=inform_artr) should be outright ignored:

Rashid, who is being held without bond, told the judge he wanted to observe his Muslim beliefs in the Clayton jail. He wants to follow a diet that forbids the consumption of pork in any form and requires other meats are prepared according to Islamic rules.

[AnnEsthesia]

And in some parts of the US and within some families, women are treated like shit. Your point? Whether you call it domestic violence or honor killing, the result is the same and he will be tried the same, no matter his ethnicity. The only difference is that bigots will latch onto this and try to use it to brand all muslims, while they will look at a domestic violence killing as a problem with that individual person and not a cultural thing (though in many cases it indeed is).

[Invayne]

You're neglecting a MAJOR fundamental difference, however: it is not a legally accepted or condoned practice within USian culture - unlike Pakistan, which is where this Rashid creature hails from.

Rashid has not yet had his day in court - but assuming he's found guilty of this murder, there's no doubt in my mind it was a result of Pakistan's Karo Kari - these murders occur with shocking frequency in Pakistani culture, and with legal sanction (or at the very least, with a deliberate turning of a blind eye). See http://www.ansarburney.org/womens_rights-karo_kari.html
(http://www.ansarburney.org/womens_rights-karo_kari.html)
It's fair to say that honor killings are not sactioned by any religion, but rather stem from ancient patriarchal systems and cultural traditions that regard family matters as domain of the tribe rather than the state. That they would seem to occur more often within Islamic cultures (or amongst people raised in that culture) has a great deal more to do with the generally-accepted attitudes and beliefs about women and their inferiority to men, i.e. property to be controlled and subjugated, unequal rights and punishment, etc. To be fair, India's Hindu culture is none-too-friendly towards women, either.

Clash of culture, as it were. Rashid has acted upon his culturally-accepted practices - now the US legal system will act upon theirs. One thing it should NOT do is treat this man differently from the rest of the prisoners - his request (http://www.ajc.com/news/content/metro/clayton/stories/2008/07/08/clayton_daughter_killed.html?cxntlid=inform_artr) should be outright ignored:

You're absolutely right.

And they should give him pig at least twice a week.

[Muser]

You're absolutely right.

And they should give him pig at least twice a week.

I can't say I'd condone that...merely that he be treated no differently than any other prisoner, and be fed the same menu as everyone else. If bacon just so happens to be on the menu that day, sorry 'bout your luck.

[Invayne]

I can't say I'd condone that...merely that he be treated no differently than any other prisoner, and be fed the same menu as everyone else. If bacon just so happens to be on the menu that day, sorry 'bout your luck.

Heh...you can always skip the bacon and not go hungry. Give him a big ol pork dinner. Let the prisoners have a pig pickin once a week!:lmao: