Is John McCain Good for the Republican Party?

[Burning Giraffe]

Regardless of your party affiliation, do you think John McCain (whether he wins or loses) will leave the Republican Party in better shape due to his campaign and leadership than where it's been the last eight years?

[AlanC]

You left out the obvious choice.

This question is irrelevant because he is the guy and if you don't like him you will have to elect conservative congress critters to curb some of his more liberal instincts.

[Burning Giraffe]

You left out the obvious choice.

This question is irrelevant because he is the guy and if you don't like him you will have to elect conservative congress critters to curb some of his more liberal instincts.

But does that really matter? I mean, if McCain isn't good for the Republican Party than why would Republicans vote for him?

[AlanC]

But does that really matter? I mean, if McCain isn't good for the Republican Party than why would Republicans vote for him?


Because he is less liberal than Obama and will do less damage.

[cronic]

I think he is better then Bush
but alot isn't going to be told until,
and if, he takes that seat

[Burning Giraffe]

Because he is less liberal than Obama and will do less damage.

But that doesn't necessarily make him good for the Republican Party. Even if McCain wins he could do horrible damage to the party.

[AlanC]

But that doesn't necessarily make him good for the Republican Party. Even if McCain wins he could do horrible damage to the party.


I have heard that argument, but I worry more about the country than I do a party.

[ptif219]

Bush already took the party left McCain would take it further left.

Soon both parties will be liberals leaving conservative out in the cold.

[Rage]

Umm, is that supposed to be a slogan or something?

[ptif219]

Umm, is that supposed to be a slogan or something?

No just an opinion.

[Osborn F. Enready]

McCain is just more of the same......lies and lack of accountability, and a voting record that leaves you wondering where his principles are.

[Rage]

Well its not better than barack. I went to his site to see his views. I had to register, ok so I did that. After I did that I couldn't get past anything. Way to go.

[Burning Giraffe]

McCain and Obama are both looking for power and nothing besides. Only a Democracy as corrupt as ours would tolerate the incompetence of our politicians the way we do. Why? Because they pay us off with pork. They harm our enemies. They keep the "other side" out of power. Hooray for US Democracy - not only has it taken us down to the lowest common denominator on nearly every field of play, but it has also taken us into the realm of the stupid and the ridiculous.

[heyjude]

The neo-cons have nearly destroyed the Republican party. I think McCain is going to do less harm to the party than another neo-con would have. The conservatives may be able to take their party back when the election is over. I hope so.

The progressives will destroy the Democrats. If our country survives. And Obama strikes me as an incipient dictator. He destroys anything that gets in his way. I hope the country is strong enough to survive. We survived Wilson and he was pretty close to a dictator.

[Buck Laser]

I voted a "huge improvement over Bush." But then a painted rock would be a huge improvement over Bush.

[preservanation]

Man, good question.
My gut instinct is that if he wins it will do much to discredit conservatives in the GOP.
The Checked pants club and the big Govt Republicans will say "See, we don't need conservatives to get elected". They would be wrong of course, but it would be some Rockefeller types selling point.

I guess it's all on how he governs.
My guess is that he'll work with Dems, that's what he's famous for.
Anything that goes against the Dem controlled congress, including judges, is going to be shot down out of the sky anyway.

This is a great thread...there's so much more, but if I don't get to the hardware store soon, my wife is going to bonk me on the head with an empty can of Valspar semi-gloss.

Later...

[namguy]

Regardless of your party affiliation, do you think John McCain (whether he wins or loses) will leave the Republican Party in better shape due to his campaign and leadership than where it's been the last eight years?

Is there pleasing these Republicans? They don't like McCain, I believe their boy was that Ron Paul.

[davo]

John McCain is definately up with the worst the GOP can offer. It would be hard for them to go much lower; except perhaps if they nominated Rudy Giuliani.

[ptif219]

The neo-cons have nearly destroyed the Republican party. I think McCain is going to do less harm to the party than another neo-con would have. The conservatives may be able to take their party back when the election is over. I hope so.

The progressives will destroy the Democrats. If our country survives. And Obama strikes me as an incipient dictator. He destroys anything that gets in his way. I hope the country is strong enough to survive. We survived Wilson and he was pretty close to a dictator.

Actual the GOP is being destroyed by people like McCain taking it left.They have left the conserative principles behind.

[NIOSA]

"No. McCain is the worst the GOP has to offer"
But then, the GOP isn't the GOP it was before it took congress for the first time in 40 years in '93. They started out great, now I can't tell the difference in the GOP & the DNC, the party platforms are different, that's it, IMO.

[Burning Giraffe]

"No. McCain is the worst the GOP has to offer"
But then, the GOP isn't the GOP it was before it took congress for the first time in 40 years in '93. They started out great, now I can't tell the difference in the GOP & the DNC, the party platforms are different, that's it, IMO.

Well, I think the GOP and the DNC both have different objectives concerning who they want to regulate, which special interests they want to serve with nominations of Supreme Court justices and so forth. :) But they both LOVE government and the power that comes with it.

[namguy]

John McCain is definately up with the worst the GOP can offer. It would be hard for them to go much lower; except perhaps if they nominated Rudy Giuliani.

You got that right...

[NIOSA]

Well, I think the GOP and the DNC both have different objectives concerning who they want to regulate, which special interests they want to serve with nominations of Supreme Court justices and so forth. :) But they both LOVE government and the power that comes with it.

Hmmmm, ya know, you're right. :D

[Englehard]

I don't know if McCain is the worst that the Republican party has to offer, but win or lose, the Republican party will be worse off than it has been traditionally.

[webwarrior]

Burning GiraffeI mean, if McCain isn't good for the Republican Party than why would Republicans vote for him?
Because he's a liar and a con, plus he's promoting new tax breaks for big oil and the Bush crime family.

[Interrested]

I vote yes, but I'm not sure what relevance Bush is in this poll. The question states "Is John McCain Good for the Republican Party", not "Is John McCain Better Than Bush?". They are two separate questions, just as Bush and McCain are two separate people with different opinions.

[lily]

They are two separate questions, just as Bush and McCain are two separate people with different opinions.


Eh......not so much really.

[william the wierd]

McCain is just more of the same......lies and lack of accountability, and a voting record that leaves you wondering where his principles are.
Just curious, what principles, if any, do you think McCain has? Really Just wondering because this is a very rare accusation for McCain.

[william the wierd]

What I think the Rep strategy is: let the Dems win this one, move left after Obama marginalizes the dems in the coming downturn and become an ogliarchy. The LP and CP will split the "right" while the Dems and Greens hold the futility sweepstakes on the "left". I also think the Reps have grossly underestimated the damage of continuous inflation even during downturns under mostly Rep leadership.

[Troubadour]

Because he is less liberal than Obama and will do less damage.

There's damage left to be done?

Bush already took the party left

Left of what? He did everything you people demanded and more: Cut your taxes to historically low levels, deregulated or privatized (legally or otherwise) virtually everything, made the military the single biggest federal budget item, removed all remaining traces of Executive accountability to Congress or the Judiciary, packed the courts with deranged right-wing ideologues who hold the Bible and their personal bigotries above the Constitution, and instituted totalitarian spying programs that spend more time targeting marijuana farmers and peace activists than catching terrorists, and now you're pretending he betrayed you because the paradise you promised everyone would follow turned out to look more like the Hanoi Hilton.

Well, excuse me if halfway to flashing a thumbs-up, another finger should happen to steal the honor. Conservatives are trying to rewrite history and erase their guilt, just like every other mass-murdering legion of greedy conquer-monkeys before them, and we won't forget the events of the past eight years. Americans may be slow on the draw when it's someone else's life and someone else's money, but they got a great big mouthful of the conservative idea of government and "self-reliance" after Hurricane Katrina, and yet again after the Iowa floods. Then they got a great big heaping whiff at the other side of the conservative mouth when the banks started collapsing, and Republicans moved with the swiftness of a mother protecting her children to save the helpless multibillion-dollar banks at taxpayer expense. The vast majority of people involved in those banks would have been secure no matter what, through FDIC and other direct federal coverage. No, we had to pay to save the bank's investors, and secure its executives' bonuses and severance packages. Republicans have stolen our tax money while cutting their own; they've stolen our flag while burning our ideals and attacking our freedom; and now the piper comes calling.


McCain would take it further left.

You mean further to the right, but with ever-decreasing ability to hide the consequences. Hardcore conservatives just can't forgive him because he's not a competent predator - he's upfront about being so out of touch with reality and the lives of ordinary people that he believes they'd be horrified at the idea of raising rich people's taxes. Even the GOP's internal polling of the electorate doesn't support that, but McCain keeps running attack ads about it, basically campaign commercials for Obama. And I'm grateful that Republicans have finally gone so far off the deep end they can't even sense the naked, short-term self-interest that is usually their only motivation.

Soon both parties will be liberals leaving conservative out in the cold.

No. Soon Democrats will be moderate and reasonable rather than center-right and servile, and Republicans will either join them in rational discussion or be cast aside. Frankly, given the nature of the right, I'm guessing it'll take a Democratic supermajority before those raving fascists get it through their 4-inch Neanderthal craniums that Americans demand some semblance of reason and decency from people who set foot in their government. The White House paper shredders will be running 24/7 throughout November and December.

[william the wierd]

Obama is going to take office at the start of the biggest downturn in more than two centuries and despite his quiet but strong ties to Wall Street he will be unable to do anything but fail.
The current real estate bubble got much bigger relative to GDP than the analogous bubbles of the 1920s, 1880s or 1830s but not as bad as the Ohio valley land boom that helped lead to currency collapse.
At the moment stock market capitalization is 50% greater than GDP relative to the market than was the case in august 1929.

And just for the record Andrew Jackson the founder of the Dems invented modern genocide, advocates of the original proto-NAZI do not fool anyone with their use of the term fascist as a non-self description.

[Troubadour]

Obama is going to take office at the start of the biggest downturn in more than two centuries and despite his quiet but strong ties to Wall Street he will be unable to do anything but fail.

That sounds more like a prayer than a prediction.

The current real estate bubble got much bigger relative to GDP than the analogous bubbles of the 1920s, 1880s or 1830s but not as bad as the Ohio valley land boom that helped lead to currency collapse.
At the moment stock market capitalization is 50% greater than GDP relative to the market than was the case in august 1929.

And that would mean something if the Great Depression stemmed directly from the stock market crash, but they both came from a third condition - overproduction. Workers were paid too little to consume what they were producing, so profits fell, layoffs occurred, factories were shut down, and consumption fell even further in continuous downward cycles. It's called a Hoover Spiral, and it's not the problem we face.


And just for the record Andrew Jackson the founder of the Dems invented modern genocide

The 19th century Democratic Party has no more relationship to the Democratic Party of today than Lincoln's Northern liberal Republican Party resembles today's nest of ignorant, corrupt, racist Southern maniacs. A remedial review of American history is clearly in order.


advocates of the original proto-NAZI do not fool anyone with their use of the term fascist as a non-self description.

You're just stringing words together in random combinations to attack your opponents. You aren't even speaking English.

[IndieVisible]

Regardless of your party affiliation, do you think John McCain (whether he wins or loses) will leave the Republican Party in better shape due to his campaign and leadership than where it's been the last eight years?

This is a very tough question. there are two ways to look at this.

From a Democratic prospective, McCain is the most liberal Republican they have, so it can't be too bad or worse then Bush.

From a Republican prospective, McCain is the most liberal Republican they have, but still more conservative then Obama.

Now as a Independent who usually leans to the left for social programs, but holds some conservative views I can tell you I could live with McCain being President. I wouldn't be shattered.

I think McCain will be good for the Republican party, after all bush is a easy act to follow.

[Interrested]

Eh......not so much really.


If we're going to be vague, I suppose you would say Barack and Hillary are the same?

[4Reaganomics]

Republicans will be worse off with McCain in my opinion, but the country will be worse off with Obama.

It puts me in quite the debacle. I am uncertain as to whether to contribute to a further retreat of republican values that come with a McCain presidency or to endure the pain of a Obama presidency in the hopes of a true fiscal conservative and pro-liberty candidate restoring the republican party to greatness in 2012

an awful 4 years or a bad outlook for the Republican party for quite some time, maybe my life time, tough choices

[Troubadour]

Republicans will be worse off with McCain in my opinion

That depends what you mean by "worse." The GOP had a choice - it could have a candidate fully on board with its agenda, or it could survive. The American people are demanding some basic concessions to decency, sanity, and ethics from Republicans, and (mind-boggling as it is) John McCain is the best they could do. Personally, I too would have loved to see Republicans go out in a blaze of ideological glory, proudly accusing laid-off workers of being lazy from their $10,000-per-plate dinners at Exxon-Mobil headquarters.


but the country will be worse off with Obama.

Is that a prediction, or a wish?


It puts me in quite the debacle.

Dilemma (or quandary). A debacle is a dramatically catastrophic single event.


I am uncertain as to whether to contribute to a further retreat of republican values that come with a McCain presidency

How exactly could one "further retreat" from republican (lowercase 'r') values after George W. Bush? Institute hereditary titles? Add a golden throne room to the Oval Office with a kneeling rug and jeweled floor basin for visitors to wash His Majesty's feet?


or to endure the pain of a Obama presidency in the hopes of a true fiscal conservative and pro-liberty candidate restoring the republican party to greatness in 2012

Good luck finding a Republican who would scale back a $700 billion Pentagon budget.

an awful 4 years or a bad outlook for the Republican party for quite some time, maybe my life time, tough choices

Quite a contrast in attitude. Democrats are eager for Obama to get in office and confront America's problems - eager to show by contrast just how incompetent Republicans are. And while ordinary Republicans may feel as you do - that Obama would fall on his face - your Party's leaders know otherwise. Please do turn out for McCain, and add to the glory of Obama's victory.