Do liberals hate evangelical christians?

[ptif219]

I found this list just wonder what you think.

http://www.christianworldviewnetwork.com/article.php/2062/Rev_Dr_David_M_Berman_ThD

1) Liberals are relativists and hate Christians because Christians believe in absolute truth.
2) Liberals do not want anyone to say that immorality is immoral.
3) Liberals are selfish and are more interested in their “feelings” then they are with what is right for others.
4) Liberals misunderstand what Christians really believe.
5) Since liberals see themselves as the superior enlighten ones they do not recognize that taking a position against their position is not automatically hate.
6) Liberals do not want to listen to what makes sense, they would rather listen to their senses.
7) Liberals ignore the clear evidence of the result of their philosophical positions influence on the last 40 years. It had been a social disaster and they do not want to hear it.
8) They see Christians as intellectually inferior.
9) Liberals see Christians as wanting to impose their religion on them when in truth it is the liberals who have used the courts system to impose their secular humanism religion on all of us.
10) Liberals are spiritually lost and blind to the truth of the gospel.

[Buck Laser]

Actually, at least a third of Evangelical Christians consider themselves to be liberals. You might look up Jim Wallis, an evangelical pastor and noted liberal.

[PostmodernProphet]

Actually, at least a third of Evangelical Christians consider themselves to be liberals. You might look up Jim Wallis, an evangelical pastor and noted liberal.

ah, but what percentage of liberals consider themselves to be evangelical Christians.....even better, what percentage of liberals are willing to admit they would have an evangelical Christian over for dinner.....

[ECW]

I found this list just wonder what you think.

The list is dream child of someone who has no clue about Christians and Liberals and does not realize that there are millions of people who are both. They just don't impose their version of Christianity on everyone else.

1) Liberals are relativists and hate Christians because Christians believe in absolute truth.

Liberal Christians do not believe that one version of Christianity is superior to another and resent people who make Christianity one-size-fits-all because it is not.

2) Liberals do not want anyone to say that immorality is immoral.

Liberal Christians have their standards of immorality and because it is not a one-size-fits-all philosophy there will be differences. Some people cannot stand the thought that someone might have a differing opinion.

3) Liberals are selfish and are more interested in their “feelings” then they are with what is right for others.

Liberal Christians get the concept of what is right for others but they do not attempt to impose their standards on everyone. The Christian Charity concept no longer gets taught in the rightwing crowd and it shows.

4) Liberals misunderstand what Christians really believe.

Liberal Christians get the concept pretty clearly. It's the evangelicals who think they are infallible that don't get it.

5) Since liberals see themselves as the superior enlighten ones they do not recognize that taking a position against their position is not automatically hate.

Funny, we've been saying the same thing about you all for years. You don't listen either. I remember a story about removing the log in one's own eye before worrying about the mote in mine.

6) Liberals do not want to listen to what makes sense, they would rather listen to their senses.

A stereotype that is hardly worth responding to.

7) Liberals ignore the clear evidence of the result of their philosophical positions influence on the last 40 years. It had been a social disaster and they do not want to hear it.

Liberal Christians realize that for most of the last 40 years Republicans have been president and their lack of leadership and discipline has wrecked the government and the social safety net that was created after the Great Depression. There is your evidence. Nothing like blaming the victim mentality to win your case.

8) They see Christians as intellectually inferior.

Liberal Christians see one-size-fits-all Christianity as inferior because it leaves love out of the equation.

9) Liberals see Christians as wanting to impose their religion on them when in truth it is the liberals who have used the courts system to impose their secular humanism religion on all of us.

No one has imposed anything upon Christians except the idea that church and state ought to be separate. If you think it is a good idea for them to join together, go to Iran for six months, come back and then tell me again how that idea works.

10) Liberals are spiritually lost and blind to the truth of the gospel.

Liberal Christians don't subscribe to one-size-fits-all preachings of the Gospel. MLK jr was a Liberal. I don't think he was lost. We're not on the same path so WE are lost? I don't think so.


That's what I think of this list.

[Buck Laser]

ah, but what percentage of liberals consider themselves to be evangelical Christians.....even better, what percentage of liberals are willing to admit they would have an evangelical Christian over for dinner.....
Typical obfuscatory response. The evangelicals in my family are all liberal. But have an evangelical for dinner? I hear they DO taste like chicken!

[Pookie]

Dang, Buck, I was going to point that out about Jim Wallis. I'm a liberal, I don't agree with those statements.
However, I do agree with #9. While I was at Wal-Mart last year shopping for Christmas gifts and was standing in line, I noticed the lady behind me had a silver cross around her neck. I smiled, and said, "Merry Christmas!"
She grinned back, pleased, "Oh, it's so good to hear that. Thank you, dear, and Merry Christmas to you, too." I was about to say I appreciated her for returning my greeting, when this bitch behind her said LOUDLY, "You don't say Merry Christmas in public! That is Illegal now. That's religious persecution and you can't do that."
We were stunned. The Christian lady behind me and I just stared at each other like, WTF?
I finally said to the bitch, pointing to her cell phone in her hand, "So call the cops on me. I'm sure this nice lady here (pointing to the one wearing the cross) will be more than happy to bail me out of jail."
That lady with the cross on turned and looked at the bitch behind her and said, "Damn right. And I have a good lawyer she can use, too."
HAH!!
Christians: 1
Assholes: 0

I love that! I'll never forget it.
Purrs,
Pookie

[preservanation]

Great story Pookie!

"You don't say Merry Christmas in public! That is Illegal now. That's religious persecution and you can't do that."

It's amazing how dead wrong and totally misled people can be!
Not to mention the utter irony of the last part of her statement.

[ptif219]

Explain to me how christians can be liberal and support abortion and gay marriage.

Evangelical christians follow God's Word not some liberal watered down version that is more humanist then christian.

[Elrathin]

Explain to me how christians can be liberal and support abortion and gay marriage.

Simple, just like my liberal Christian friends do. They believe abortion and gay marriage is wrong, but aren't willing to force their morals on other people. They wouldn't engage themselves in a homosexual relationship and they wouldn't have abortions.

I guess to you, a Christian means you have to force morals on everyone eh?

[PostmodernProphet]

I guess to you, a Christian means you have to force morals on everyone eh?

to me, abortion isn't about forcing morality on anyone....it's about forcing death on children......

[BoogyMan]

Simple, just like my liberal Christian friends do. They believe abortion and gay marriage is wrong, but aren't willing to force their morals on other people. They wouldn't engage themselves in a homosexual relationship and they wouldn't have abortions.

I guess to you, a Christian means you have to force morals on everyone eh?

If they see that it is wrong El, would they show such hatred for those they see in error as to not say anything to them about it? How could one evidence any more despicable attitude toward someone in error than to not say something?

[Elrathin]

to me, abortion isn't about forcing morality on anyone....it's about forcing death on children......

That's nice, to me it is about the rights of a woman's body, to each their own.

[Pookie]

Great story Pookie!

"You don't say Merry Christmas in public! That is Illegal now. That's religious persecution and you can't do that."

It's amazing how dead wrong and totally misled people can be!
Not to mention the utter irony of the last part of her statement.

You got that right, Pres! But the Christian lady's response was totally priceless, I thought. And any feelings of anger I had were quickly dissolved with her reply. I believe she is a real, true Christian, even though I don't know her.
I just wish there were more Christians like her, but when I run into a Christian like that, it just confirms my belief in God. I think He sends people like her into our lives from time to time to remind us that He is there.
Purrs,
Pookie

[Buck Laser]

Great story Pookie!
"You don't say Merry Christmas in public! That is Illegal now. That's religious persecution and you can't do that."

It's amazing how dead wrong and totally misled people can be!
Not to mention the utter irony of the last part of her statement.
I have a good many friends who are Jewish, and I've learned from them how if feels to be a religious minority in a thouroughly culturally Christian country. So I try to avoid stereotypical "Christian" terms in public. I have no difficulty in avoiding giving gratuitous offense to people.

For 25 years, I was a member of a Kiwanis Club where I would frequently be called upon to speak the invocation. Not a single time did one of the Christian members ask me to add "in Jesus' name" to the prayer.

My own considered opinion is that this business of "eradicating religion" is nothing but a red herring intended to appeal to people who are more interested in form rather than content. If that offends, I'm sorry.

[Elrathin]

If they see that it is wrong El, would they show such hatred for those they see in error as to not say anything to them about it? How could one evidence any more despicable attitude toward someone in error than to not say something?

Boogy I have no idea what you are trying to say in your first sentence.

I explained it quite clearly. They wouldn't engage in that activity themselves, but they aren't going to force their morals on other people. Doesn't get much simpler than that.

Do they tell people it's wrong? Yes. Do they vote against something like gay marriage or abortion and force their morals on others? No. Do you not see the difference in saying something is wrong and forcing someone not to do it?

[BoogyMan]

Boogy I have no idea what you are trying to say in your first sentence.

I explained it quite clearly. They wouldn't engage in that activity themselves, but they aren't going to force their morals on other people. Doesn't get much simpler than that.

Do they tell people it's wrong? Yes. Do they vote against something like gay marriage or abortion and force their morals on others? No. Do you not see the difference in saying something is wrong and forcing someone not to do it?

So voting against something is force? That is a ridiculous argument. What you are essentially saying here is that their faith means very little and man is placed above it.

To see error, believing that such error will lead to condemnation by God, and to say nothing would show that they have no love for their fellow man.

[ptif219]

Simple, just like my liberal Christian friends do. They believe abortion and gay marriage is wrong, but aren't willing to force their morals on other people. They wouldn't engage themselves in a homosexual relationship and they wouldn't have abortions.

I guess to you, a Christian means you have to force morals on everyone eh?

But when they vote liberal they are condoning abortion and gay marriage because they know liberals will support this.

That is why I can not vote for Liberals they go against God's word.

[Elrathin]

But when they vote liberal they are condoning abortion and gay marriage because they know liberals will support this.

So when you vote for YOUR candidate, are you saying you agree with them 100% as well as condone EVERYTHING they do? Are you sure you want to go to those extremes?

That is why I can not vote for Liberals they go against God's word.

Good for you, I don't care lol

[Elrathin]

So voting against something is force? That is a ridiculous argument. What you are essentially saying here is that their faith means very little and man is placed above it.

To see error, believing that such error will lead to condemnation by God, and to say nothing would show that they have no love for their fellow man.

Ah I get it, is this one of those comments where you are telling us how good a Christian you are and how lousy a Christian everyone that doesn't follow your belief is? Got it.

[ptif219]

So when you vote for YOUR candidate, are you saying you agree with them 100% as well as condone EVERYTHING they do? Are you sure you want to go to those extremes?

On issues of morality and Biblical principle yes.

Good for you, I don't care lol

I know you are an elitist and look down on christians.

[BoogyMan]

Ah I get it, is this one of those comments where you are telling us how good a Christian you are and how lousy a Christian everyone that doesn't follow your belief is? Got it.

How do you get that sillyness out of what I said El?

[Pookie]

to me, abortion isn't about forcing morality on anyone....it's about forcing death on children......

Right. Many Christians feel this way. Also, most of the Christians I know don't like the idea of abortion, but if it is a matter where an unwanted child is born and gets abused and treated horribly, even killed, they call it a necessary evil and just leave it at that. The Christians I know would have the child and do their best to raise him/her with love and stability, or whatever they can offer. Not abuse, as all children, like we are, are children of God.
But they sure don't want a child born into the world who will just suffer agonies of abuse and die at some point. I've had this conversation with so many Christian friends and that is how they feel.
Purrs,
Pookie

[Alonzo]

Dang, Buck, I was going to point that out about Jim Wallis. I'm a liberal, I don't agree with those statements.
However, I do agree with #9. While I was at Wal-Mart last year shopping for Christmas gifts and was standing in line, I noticed the lady behind me had a silver cross around her neck. I smiled, and said, "Merry Christmas!"
She grinned back, pleased, "Oh, it's so good to hear that. Thank you, dear, and Merry Christmas to you, too." I was about to say I appreciated her for returning my greeting, when this bitch behind her said LOUDLY, "You don't say Merry Christmas in public! That is Illegal now. That's religious persecution and you can't do that."
We were stunned. The Christian lady behind me and I just stared at each other like, WTF?
I finally said to the bitch, pointing to her cell phone in her hand, "So call the cops on me. I'm sure this nice lady here (pointing to the one wearing the cross) will be more than happy to bail me out of jail."
That lady with the cross on turned and looked at the bitch behind her and said, "Damn right. And I have a good lawyer she can use, too."
HAH!!
Christians: 1
Assholes: 0

I love that! I'll never forget it.
Purrs,
Pookie

Want to bet that it was just sarcasm that went over your head?

[Elrathin]

How do you get that sillyness out of what I said El?

Simple Boogy right here after I explained how my Christian friends vote:


To see error, believing that such error will lead to condemnation by God, and to say nothing would show that they have no love for their fellow man.

So my liberal Christian friends are obviously lousy Christians compared to your superiority right?

Sorry, but they love their fellow man to know that man needs to make the decision to follow gods word. So your accusation that they don't is you saying they are somehow "lesser" Christians.

[ptif219]

Right. Many Christians feel this way. Also, most of the Christians I know don't like the idea of abortion, but if it is a matter where an unwanted child is born and gets abused and treated horribly, even killed, they call it a necessary evil and just leave it at that. The Christians I know would have the child and do their best to raise him/her with love and stability, or whatever they can offer. Not abuse, as all children, like we are, are children of God.
But they sure don't want a child born into the world who will just suffer agonies of abuse and die at some point. I've had this conversation with so many Christian friends and that is how they feel.
Purrs,
Pookie

So they believe women should play God and kill their children.

That is christian?Christians I know believe all babies including those in the womb have the right to life unless an act of God stops it and takes their child home to heaven.

[ptif219]

Simple Boogy right here after I explained how my Christian friends vote:



So my liberal Christian friends are obviously lousy Christians compared to your superiority right?

Sorry, but they love their fellow man to know that man needs to make the decision to follow gods word. So your accusation that they don't is you saying they are somehow "lesser" Christians.

I would say misguided christians

[Elrathin]

On issues of morality and Biblical principle yes.


In the bible does it say to deceive, lie, steal, cheat, have affairs etc?

So you are saying candidates you have voted for have done NONE of these?

Obviously you don't agree with what they do all the time then, so your comment is contradicting.

I know you are an elitist and look down on christians.

Nope, I simple just don't care what you think in that regard of what is immoral or not.

[BoogyMan]

Simple Boogy right here after I explained how my Christian friends vote:

So my liberal Christian friends are obviously lousy Christians compared to your superiority right?

Sorry, but they love their fellow man to know that man needs to make the decision to follow gods word. So your accusation that they don't is you saying they are somehow "lesser" Christians.

No that is a fantasy that only you could come up with El, only you.

The Corinthians ignored sin in their midst and said nothing, read 1st Corinthians and see the corcern shown for them by Paul. He pulled no punches and told them the truth they needed to hear.

[Elrathin]

I would say misguided christians

I'd say they have it spot on.

[PostmodernProphet]

Right. Many Christians feel this way. Also, most of the Christians I know don't like the idea of abortion, but if it is a matter where an unwanted child is born and gets abused and treated horribly, even killed, they call it a necessary evil and just leave it at that. The Christians I know would have the child and do their best to raise him/her with love and stability, or whatever they can offer. Not abuse, as all children, like we are, are children of God.
But they sure don't want a child born into the world who will just suffer agonies of abuse and die at some point. I've had this conversation with so many Christian friends and that is how they feel.
Purrs,
Pookie

if there were only two options, killing the unborn child or leaving it to suffer abuse, that might seem like a logical conclusion......however, there is no reason to consider those the only two options.....

[Elrathin]

No that is a fantasy that only you could come up with El, only you.

The Corinthians ignored sin in their midst and said nothing, read 1st Corinthians and see the corcern shown for them by Paul. He pulled no punches and told them the truth they needed to hear.

Words have meaning Boogy, and the ones I quoted you saying mean a lot. And they aren't what you are explaining them to be now.

They aren't ignoring the sin, they speak on it, and quite often. However, they believe that it is an individuals right, not theirs to change. That doesn't mean they don't love their fellow man.

Egads Boogy, this is beneath you.

[BoogyMan]

Words have meaning Boogy, and the ones I quoted you saying mean a lot. And they aren't what you are explaining them to be now.

They aren't ignoring the sin, they speak on it, and quite often. However, they believe that it is an individuals right, not theirs to change. That doesn't mean they don't love their fellow man.

Egads Boogy, this is beneath you.

Once again I ask you to actually debate something instead of making foolish and uninformed generalizations from what I posted. I asked a question about how one could evidence faith by not telling someone of their error and you twisted it into a statement requiring the Christian to forcibly remove someone from their sins. What a complete and utter misrepresentation of what I said? It is laughable, but expected.

When you wish to debate honestly, look me up.

[PostmodernProphet]

They aren't ignoring the sin, they speak on it, and quite often. However, they believe that it is an individuals right, not theirs to change. That doesn't mean they don't love their fellow man.
but what you are proposing is that the Christian should do more than love their fellow man, you propose that the Christian should love it that their fellow man sins.....

[Elrathin]

but what you are proposing is that the Christian should do more than love their fellow man, you propose that the Christian should love it that their fellow man sins.....

Nowhere did I say that. When interracial marriage ban was lifted there was still (and even today there are) people that don't believe in it. They don't love it but they can't force people not to marry.

The same thing here.

[BoogyMan]

Nowhere did I say that. When interracial marriage ban was lifted there was still (and even today there are) people that don't believe in it. They don't love it but they can't force people not to marry.

The same thing here.

This makes no sense in the context of the false statements you made about my line of argumentation, and really it doesn't have much to do with the argument at hand in any fashion.

[Elrathin]

This makes no sense in the context of the false statements you made about my line of argumentation, and really it doesn't have much to do with the argument at hand in any fashion.

Boogy I quoted your context quite well. If you choose to ignore that, it is your business. You claimed that if Christians don't vote against "sin" then they don't have love for their fellow man.

[PostmodernProphet]

Nowhere did I say that. When interracial marriage ban was lifted there was still (and even today there are) people that don't believe in it. They don't love it but they can't force people not to marry.

The same thing here.

I missed the part where scriptures said being black was a sin.....

you have said it is wrong for Christians to take a position on whether something is wrong or not.....that they must simply love their fellow man...if you remain silent about what is wrong are you not condoning it?.....

[BoogyMan]

Boogy I quoted your context quite well. If you choose to ignore that, it is your business. You claimed that if Christians don't vote against "sin" then they don't have love for their fellow man.

Another falsehood, how unexpected.

I said "To see error, believing that such error will lead to condemnation by God, and to say nothing would show that they have no love for their fellow man."

That was a completely separate statement from the response to your comments about the vote. You tried to make the argument that voting is force which is another falsehood, and I pointed out that your line of thought puts man above God.

[Elrathin]

You tried to make the argument that voting is force which is another falsehood, and I pointed out that your line of thought puts man above God.

So if I vote for Christianity to be illegal, I'm not forcing anything on you as a Christian?

[Pookie]

Want to bet that it was just sarcasm that went over your head?

If you wish to say that, fine. You weren't there.
Want to bet you missed the whole point?
Pookie

[BoogyMan]

So if I vote for Christianity to be illegal, I'm not forcing anything on you as a Christian?

No, you are not, because I can always vote against that foolish garbage, and I will carry on whether or not you like my being a Christian.

[Elrathin]

No, you are not, because I can always vote against that foolish garbage, and I will carry on whether or not you like my being a Christian.

Yeah until such time as it passes and your religion is illegal. That's my point Boogy. That would never happen because religion is protected of course from mob rule, but if it did, that vote would be forced upon you.

So yes, a vote preventing someone from doing something is a vote of force. Sometimes that force is good in the public eye, and sometimes it isn't.

[Pookie]

So they believe women should play God and kill their children.

That is christian?Christians I know believe all babies including those in the womb have the right to life unless an act of God stops it and takes their child home to heaven.

I said Christians I know. I am not an expert on what is Christian and what isn't.
I am simply telling you all of my experience. Pick it apaert as you will, and remember, who are we to judge?
Judge them badly if you will...it's not my job.
Pookie

[BoogyMan]

Yeah until such time as it passes and your religion is illegal. That's my point Boogy. That would never happen because religion is protected of course from mob rule, but if it did, that vote would be forced upon you.

So yes, a vote preventing someone from doing something is a vote of force. Sometimes that force is good in the public eye, and sometimes it isn't.

If it passed and my religion became illegal, do you know what this little bit of obfuscatory argument would mean? Nothing. I might have to spend some time in jail, but I would do my job of exposing error and trying to bring those involved in it to an understanding of the truth, regardless.

No, a vote is not force, claiming such is little more than a precursor to a call for anarchy without the ability to cast such a vote.

[lily]

but what you are proposing is that the Christian should do more than love their fellow man, you propose that the Christian should love it that their fellow man sins.....


Whatever happened to all that love the sinner, hate the sin?

With abortion being legal, it means that a person has a choice. It may not be your choice, but that doesn't mean it should be illegal. No one is forcing you to have an abortion.

I don't own a gun, yet I'd never tell anyone they couldn't and that also takes a life.

[Elrathin]

No, a vote is not force, claiming such is little more than a precursor to a call for anarchy without the ability to cast such a vote.

That is your opinion that it isn't force, that isn't mine.

[BoogyMan]

That is your opinion that it isn't force, that isn't mine.

The vote is a constitutionally guaranteed right El. The vote is provided so that force is removed as an option.

You are redefining the term.

[ptif219]

Here is another site with 60 truths of liberals.

http://famguardian.org/Subjects/Politics/Articles/Liberals.htm

[Pookie]

Here is another site with 60 truths of liberals.

http://famguardian.org/Subjects/Politics/Articles/Liberals.htm

Mercy. That is so full of hate that I wonder, the person who says all this, can he/she really be a Christian?
I thought Christianity was about love.
Purrs,
Pookie

[Alonzo]

Here is another site with 60 truths of liberals.

http://famguardian.org/Subjects/Politics/Articles/Liberals.htm

So you're telling me that not only do I routinely bash christians, but I'm also an active promoter of pedophilia.

[Truth_and_Power]

I found this list just wonder what you think.

http://www.christianworldviewnetwork.com/article.php/2062/Rev_Dr_David_M_Berman_ThD

1) Liberals are relativists and hate Christians because Christians believe in absolute truth.
2) Liberals do not want anyone to say that immorality is immoral.
3) Liberals are selfish and are more interested in their “feelings” then they are with what is right for others.
4) Liberals misunderstand what Christians really believe.
5) Since liberals see themselves as the superior enlighten ones they do not recognize that taking a position against their position is not automatically hate.
6) Liberals do not want to listen to what makes sense, they would rather listen to their senses.
7) Liberals ignore the clear evidence of the result of their philosophical positions influence on the last 40 years. It had been a social disaster and they do not want to hear it.
8) They see Christians as intellectually inferior.
9) Liberals see Christians as wanting to impose their religion on them when in truth it is the liberals who have used the courts system to impose their secular humanism religion on all of us.
10) Liberals are spiritually lost and blind to the truth of the gospel.

Well it's refreshing to hear your point of view. Some of this is true, some of the time. But the reverse is also true, some of the time. And the fact is, christianity came first. You have to ask yourself, "do we?" Many of the things above compute to
1. You are wrong, we are right
2. You want to make us live your way, but in fact you should live our way
3. You think we are wrong, but you are wrong

The fact is, christianity was doing all this to those that felt differently before "liberals" started doing what you accuse us of. I say "liberals" in quotes, because the group you refer to include libertarians and others who do not believe in a christian state.

So if your morality is absolute and you believe others shouldnt impose their religion on you, but you SHOULD impose yours on them, then I guess you're comfortable with all of what I have talked about. But if you are, why do you bother to accuse the other side of it? I mean, if you really do think everyone should be forced to live your way, i.e. non-moral-relativist, why bother criticizing the other side? I mean isn't that like offering up to the germans a list of why they are wrong on christmas eve from one set of trenches to another?

[Elrathin]

The vote is provided so that force is removed as an option.

You are redefining the term.

Yeah whatever Boogy, I'm sure those that couldn't get married at one point and time because their spouse was a different color weren't forced. Sell that to someone who will buy it.

[ptif219]

Well it's refreshing to hear your point of view. Some of this is true, some of the time. But the reverse is also true, some of the time. And the fact is, christianity came first. You have to ask yourself, "do we?" Many of the things above compute to
1. You are wrong, we are right
2. You want to make us live your way, but in fact you should live our way
3. You think we are wrong, but you are wrong

The fact is, christianity was doing all this to those that felt differently before "liberals" started doing what you accuse us of. I say "liberals" in quotes, because the group you refer to include libertarians and others who do not believe in a christian state.

So if your morality is absolute and you believe others shouldnt impose their religion on you, but you SHOULD impose yours on them, then I guess you're comfortable with all of what I have talked about. But if you are, why do you bother to accuse the other side of it? I mean, if you really do think everyone should be forced to live your way, i.e. non-moral-relativist, why bother criticizing the other side? I mean isn't that like offering up to the germans a list of why they are wrong on christmas eve from one set of trenches to another?

I accused nobody of anything. I showed a website and made a poll then asked what people thought.

The point is many people look at liberals as elitist because of their views annd the fact they seldom admit to being wrong.

I do believe that some liberals hate christians who take a stand on morals and principles.

To listen to the rants and rhetoric on some of the gay threads you can see the hate and disdain toward the christians who stand on Biblical principles and Biblical teachings.

Some of the reactions are funny and the other link with 60 facts on liberals has some truth but also parts seem funny to me.

[ptif219]

Yeah whatever Boogy, I'm sure those that couldn't get married at one point and time because their spouse was a different color weren't forced. Sell that to someone who will buy it.

You seem a bit obsessed with interracial marriage.

[PostmodernProphet]

Whatever happened to all that love the sinner, hate the sin?



that's my point....El's approach is to love the sin.......

[4Reaganomics]

lmao

The answer to the question posed

Some liberals hate Christians

Some liberals are tolerant of Christians

and some liberals pretend to be Christians

next poll

[BoogyMan]

Yeah whatever Boogy, I'm sure those that couldn't get married at one point and time because their spouse was a different color weren't forced. Sell that to someone who will buy it.

Try an argument that makes sense with the topic El. You made up that mess, I just swatted it down.

Voting is not now, nor will it EVER be force. It is a right of every citizen. Christian's voting their conscience are no different that non-christians voting theirs. Is it force when a liberal votes against something dear to Christians? No.

[Charles V]

9) Liberals see Christians as wanting to impose their religion on them when in truth it is the liberals who have used the courts system to impose their secular humanism religion on all of us.

Now give me an example of 1) how can secular humanism possibly be legally ''imposed'' and 2) what of it do you disagree with.

10) Liberals are spiritually lost and blind to the truth of the gospel.

Just as Christians are blind to the truth of the Qu'aran.

[firefox]

Some of them do, but I'm sure most of them don't. How could anyone know for sure what "all liberals" think?

[Elrathin]

Try an argument that makes sense with the topic El. You made up that mess, I just swatted it down.

The only thing you swatted is air Boogy. Other than that you didn't shoot any of my argument down, you flat out avoided it with a self-pat on your back LOL.

[GhostintheMachine]

A slightly more thoughtful examination of the difference between liberals and conservatives...http://psychologytoday.com/articles/pto-20061222-000001.xml

[Charles V]

A slightly more thoughtful examination of the difference between liberals and conservatives...http://psychologytoday.com/articles/pto-20061222-000001.xml

The first few paragraphs reminded me of a certain Daily Show episode (http://www.thedailyshow.com/full-episodes/index.jhtml?episodeId=174764)... why does ''Terrorist Attack'' + ''Election'' = ''Republican''?

[GhostintheMachine]

The first few paragraphs reminded me of a certain Daily Show episode (http://www.thedailyshow.com/full-episodes/index.jhtml?episodeId=174764)... why does ''Terrorist Attack'' + ''Election'' = ''Republican''?

haha that was amazing. Carry the Cheney...brilliant.:clapper:

[I Like Beer]

So you're telling me that not only do I routinely bash christians, but I'm also an active promoter of pedophilia.

Well, if that's where PTIF gets his information, no wonder he's so screwed up.

[ptif219]

Well, if that's where PTIF gets his information, no wonder he's so screwed up.

Always criticizing sources and not commenting on what the thread is about.

[Alonzo]

You accused me of bashing christians and actively promoting pedophilia, I'd like to see that backed up.

[ptif219]

You accused me of bashing christians and actively promoting pedophilia, I'd like to see that backed up.

I accused no one of anything.I posted a list and asked what people thought.

But if the shoe fits so be it. :madlaugh:

[Mia]

I only hate'' them when they call me a liberal for not agreeing with everything they say.

[Alonzo]

I accused no one of anything.I posted a list and asked what people thought.

But if the shoe fits so be it. :madlaugh:

You said:

Here is another site with 60 truths of liberals.

http://famguardian.org/Subjects/Politics/Articles/Liberals.htm

And I'm a liberal. So if they're truths, aren't you accusing liberals, such as me, of those things?

[ViolaLee]

Explain to me how christians can be liberal and support abortion and gay marriage.

Evangelical christians follow God's Word not some liberal watered down version that is more humanist then christian.

Same way they can support eating shell fish and refrain from stoning their daughters to death for having sex.

[ECW]

The point is many people look at liberals as elitist because of their views annd the fact they seldom admit to being wrong.

The counter point is that many people look at conservatives as elitist because of their views and their arrogance and the fact they never admit to being wrong. And who determines who is right in theological questions? Evangelicals? Laypersons? Baptists? The Pope? The RNC? Who?

I do believe that some liberals hate christians who take a stand on morals and principles.

I do believe that some conservatives hate liberals who take a stand on morals and principles which do not agree with what conservatives think everyone ought to believe about Christianity.

To listen to the rants and rhetoric on some of the gay threads you can see the hate and disdain toward the christians who stand on Biblical principles and Biblical teachings.


In reading the gay threads I can see the arrogance and moral superiority that so-called Christians have towards anyone who does not read scripture in EXACTLY the same fashion that they do. There is plenty of hate emanating from the "Christian side" so much so that Christians who hold differing beliefs are not willing to side with the haters on either side.

[ptif219]

The counter point is that many people look at conservatives as elitist because of their views and their arrogance and the fact they never admit to being wrong. And who determines who is right in theological questions? Evangelicals? Laypersons? Baptists? The Pope? The RNC? Who?

Seems both sides look the same

I do believe that some conservatives hate liberals who take a stand on morals and principles which do not agree with what conservatives think everyone ought to believe about Christianity.

Morals and liberals seems like an oxymoron

In reading the gay threads I can see the arrogance and moral superiority that so-called Christians have towards anyone who does not read scripture in EXACTLY the same fashion that they do. There is plenty of hate emanating from the "Christian side" so much so that Christians who hold differing beliefs are not willing to side with the haters on either side.

I wouls say the oppisite.I see the hate and disdain of liberals as they show their arrogant elitist attitude like you have here.

[GhostintheMachine]

I wouls say the oppisite.I see the hate and disdain of liberals as they show their arrogant elitist attitude like you have here.

To quote your own words: "Morals and liberals seems like an oxymoron"

How is that statement neither arrogant or elitist? Pot calling the kettle black?

[ECW]

The counter point is that many people look at conservatives as elitist because of their views and their arrogance and the fact they never admit to being wrong. And who determines who is right in theological questions? Evangelicals? Laypersons? Baptists? The Pope? The RNC? Who?

Seems both sides look the same

You seem to be catching on...

I do believe that some conservatives hate liberals who take a stand on morals and principles which do not agree with what conservatives think everyone ought to believe about Christianity.

Morals and liberals seems like an oxymoron

And now you've lost it again.


In reading the gay threads I can see the arrogance and moral superiority that so-called Christians have towards anyone who does not read scripture in EXACTLY the same fashion that they do. There is plenty of hate emanating from the "Christian side" so much so that Christians who hold differing beliefs are not willing to side with the haters on either side.
I wouls say the oppisite.I see the hate and disdain of liberals as they show their arrogant elitist attitude like you have here.

I have no distain for conservatives or Christians but people like you throw out unfounded stereotypes, inaccurate allegations, and blasphemous charges expecting to be... what? Greeted with open arms and warm re-assurances? Agreed with so you won't go off on us? Please. Hostile words create a nasty backlash and if you have gotten that treatment from Liberals then I seriously doubt you did absolutely nothing to warrant it. In fact, just from your post here I can surmise what you said to get bitchslapped.

You really have a lot of traumatic real world experiences in front of you if you think that people are going to let you cast aspersions upon them, their faith, and their beliefs without calling you to account for your words.

Hate? Distain? I could return to you some of the things that people just like you (who think they have all the answers) have said to me over my lifetime. You would see for yourself some real loathing & hatred from people who call themselves Christian but only seem to remember Christ's teachings between 11am and 12:30pm Sunday morning. I won't because that would bring me down to your level and there are some things that even I won't do.

Nice talking to ya.

[BoogyMan]

The only thing you swatted is air Boogy. Other than that you didn't shoot any of my argument down, you flat out avoided it with a self-pat on your back LOL.

That would be because air and faked up allegation is all that borderline personal attack you started this with was, El.

[tecoyah]

I would say the opposite.I see the hate and disdain of liberals as they show their arrogant elitist attitude like you have here.


I have yet to meet anyone who Hates Christianity, as most understand it is a beautiful and rich tradition, and the Teachings of the Christ are loving for the most part. I have however, known many who dislike individual Christians ( I am one of them as a matter of fact), This has little to do with Christianity as a religion, and much to do with the personality of the person.
A simple thought experiment may clarify my point:

If you are a devout Christian, and never try to convert anyone, or explain to someone they are banished to oblivion because they do not think as you do, what would you say are the chances you will feel anything negative concerning your faith?

If you are a devout Christian, and do not try to convince someone else that something unprovable exists, what would you say are the chances another will call you out for some kind of evidence the thing exists?

If you are a devout Christian, and keep your personal religion to yourself ( as most others do unless asked), what chance is there someone else will not only guess your faith, but decide they need to confront you about it?



I personally, have NEVER confronted someone on belief, unless they felt the need to confront me first by expressing either something I disagree with and insulting my stance, or they were an arrogant a$$hole I felt deserved to be taken down a notch.

Read your posts in this thread if you disagree with what I have written.

[PostmodernProphet]

In reading the gay threads I can see the arrogance and moral superiority that so-called Christians have towards anyone who does not read scripture in EXACTLY the same fashion that they do. There is plenty of hate emanating from the "Christian side" so much so that Christians who hold differing beliefs are not willing to side with the haters on either side.

the problem, as I see it, is that those in favor of gay unions are frustrated by the fact that all who are opposed to gay unions don't fall into some easy category to dispute.....you want us to interpret scriptures the same way that extreme fundamentalists do, so you dismiss us as extremists......in short, the secular humanists have more in common with the Rev. Phelps than do most Christians.....

[Truth_and_Power]

lmao

The answer to the question posed

Some liberals hate Christians

Some liberals are tolerant of Christians

and some liberals pretend to be Christians

next poll

Some christians hate liberals
some christians are tolerant of liberals
And I personally wouldn't presume to call anyone else a pretender in their beliefs

Next hypocrite..

[preservanation]

Hating a person's views and hating a person are two very different things, IMO.

[Truth_and_Power]

I accused nobody of anything. I showed a website and made a poll then asked what people thought.

The point is many people look at liberals as elitist because of their views annd the fact they seldom admit to being wrong.

I do believe that some liberals hate christians who take a stand on morals and principles.

To listen to the rants and rhetoric on some of the gay threads you can see the hate and disdain toward the christians who stand on Biblical principles and Biblical teachings.

Some of the reactions are funny and the other link with 60 facts on liberals has some truth but also parts seem funny to me.

I can switch liberals and christians in your post.. hell most every "here's why liberalz suck!" post in this thread, and have it be "equally" true. The thing is, though, liberals are not telling christians that their church has to marry gays. Christians are telling liberals that NO church should be allowed to marry gays.

[NortheastCynic]

Disagreeing on political issues is not equivalent to hatred.

In addition, an answer of 'yes' to the question would be a massive generalization of millions of people. Not very logical.

The answer to the poll question is: quite obviously, no.

One perk of libertarianism's relative obscurity that I'm happy with is that our political opponents don't make absurd generalizations about us en masse very often.

-NC

[ECW]

Originally Posted by ECW:
In reading the gay threads I can see the arrogance and moral superiority that so-called Christians have towards anyone who does not read scripture in EXACTLY the same fashion that they do. There is plenty of hate emanating from the "Christian side" so much so that Christians who hold differing beliefs are not willing to side with the haters on either side.
the problem, as I see it, is that those in favor of gay unions are frustrated by the fact that all who are opposed to gay unions don't fall into some easy category to dispute.....you want us to interpret scriptures the same way that extreme fundamentalists do, so you dismiss us as extremists......in short, the secular humanists have more in common with the Rev. Phelps than do most Christians.....

That's where your analogy falls apart with me. I could care less about gay marriage. I understand both sides but neither side has me with them because my argument is simply that marriage is not (should not) be a function of government; to tell people whether or not they can get married. It is a church function and, therefore, private matter. Leave it up to the church to decide who can get married and who cannot. Government has assumed the role and I do not feel it is any of the government's business. Whether gays get married or not is not my concern. I have no horse in this race.

I classify the people who oppose gay marriage into one simple category: people who oppose gay marriage. It goes no further than that. If you want to toss your religion into it or take religion out of it, go ahead. I don't really care. It does not affect me in the slightest.

I don't want anyone to interpret scripture in any particular way, no matter what you assert. That's between you and God, not me, you and God.

I have not found secular humanists to be anywhere close to being as closed minded and hate filled as Phelps and his ilk. Maybe you are running around with a bad crowd.

[PostmodernProphet]

I have not found secular humanists to be anywhere close to being as closed minded and hate filled as Phelps and his ilk. Maybe you are running around with a bad crowd.

the parallel is here....Phelps uses Leviticus to call for hatred of homosexuals......the left translates any objection to homosexual relationships into the equivalent of the mindset of Phelps.....anytime a debate about homosexuality arises, some idiot is going to post "yeah?, well what about shellfish?" or "you want to bring back stoning".....thus, the left and Phelps agree on how Leviticus should be understood by Christians, but they stand apart from pretty much all of Christianity....the net result is that the left looks as ignorant of Christianity as Phelps does......

[tecoyah]

the parallel is here....Phelps uses Leviticus to call for hatred of homosexuals......the left translates any objection to homosexual relationships into the equivalent of the mindset of Phelps.....anytime a debate about homosexuality arises, some idiot is going to post "yeah?, well what about shellfish?" or "you want to bring back stoning".....thus, the left and Phelps agree on how Leviticus should be understood by Christians, but they stand apart from pretty much all of Christianity....the net result is that the left looks as ignorant of Christianity as Phelps does......

It seems most people translate an objection to Homosexuality as ...uh...an objection to Homosexuality. If you decide to base this objection on your religious beliefs, then those beliefs will naturally be blamed for the attitude by anyone who feels Homosexuality is not objectionable. If you base it on You Grampa Jimmy...it is likely they would blame Grampa Jimmy.

If you have a problem with Gays...don't be gay.

If you have a Problem with Gay Marriage....get the Government to change tax codes, or adapt Civil Unions to level the playing field.

If you have a problem with Leviticus...welcome to the club, ignore it with the rest of us. But work to distance yourself from Phelps and Co.



Your religion is not under attack......you are.

[ECW]

the parallel is here....Phelps uses Leviticus to call for hatred of homosexuals......the left translates any objection to homosexual relationships into the equivalent of the mindset of Phelps.....anytime a debate about homosexuality arises, some idiot is going to post "yeah?, well what about shellfish?" or "you want to bring back stoning".....thus, the left and Phelps agree on how Leviticus should be understood by Christians, but they stand apart from pretty much all of Christianity....the net result is that the left looks as ignorant of Christianity as Phelps does......

Again, I have not found "the left" to be breathing hatred in the same fashion as Phelps. Also, I have not found "secular humanists" to be breathing hatred in the same fashion as Phelps. Your intentional pairing of the two reveals more about you than I originally thought. Besides, if you are allowing someone to derail you so easily with discussions of shell fish or stoning when the subject is gay marriage, your problem is not with "the left" or with "secular humanists" but with something else.

There are numerous restrictions and laws in the Old Testament but those are laws intended for the Jews, not Christians. Our holy book is the New Testament. Too many Christians use both to make their religion but they do not follow every law there is in the OT, only the ones they want to follow or have "others" follow. It is the weakness and Achilles heel of every argument like this.

[GhostintheMachine]

the problem, as I see it, is that those in favor of gay unions are frustrated by the fact that all who are opposed to gay unions don't fall into some easy category to dispute.....

I have yet to hear an empirically or constitutionally valid argument that claims that gay unions should be prevented.

you want us to interpret scriptures the same way that extreme fundamentalists do, so you dismiss us as extremists......in short, the secular humanists have more in common with the Rev. Phelps than do most Christians....

Yeah like Noam Chomsky, John Lennon, and Charles Schulz....they are just seething with hatred and ignorance.

[ptif219]

.

I have yet to hear an empirically or constitutionally valid argument that claims that gay unions should be prevented.

I agree civil unions are fine
Yeah like Noam Chomsky, John Lennon, and Charles Schulz....they are just seething with hatred and ignorance.

You mean the pro gay who show their hate for christians.

Rather then go through the legislature the legal law making process they go the low road and use activist judges that legislate from the bench.

[4Reaganomics]

Again, I have not found "the left" to be breathing hatred in the same fashion as Phelps. Also, I have not found "secular humanists" to be breathing hatred in the same fashion as Phelps. Your intentional pairing of the two reveals more about you than I originally thought. Besides, if you are allowing someone to derail you so easily with discussions of shell fish or stoning when the subject is gay marriage, your problem is not with "the left" or with "secular humanists" but with something else.

There are numerous restrictions and laws in the Old Testament but those are laws intended for the Jews, not Christians. Our holy book is the New Testament. Too many Christians use both to make their religion but they do not follow every law there is in the OT, only the ones they want to follow or have "others" follow. It is the weakness and Achilles heel of every argument like this.

There was an awful lot of cheering going on in Trinity, ten thousand hands clapping

and how many on the left support Obama and his support of black power theology

hate is coming from those on the left who are supporting the hate candidate, Obama

[ptif219]

There was an awful lot of cheering going on in Trinity, ten thousand hands clapping

and how many on the left support Obama and his support of black power theology

hate is coming from those on the left who are supporting the hate candidate, Obama

You don't have to look far in the Obama network


http://www.onenewsnow.com/Election2008/Default.aspx?id=156226

http://www.onenewsnow.com/Election2008/Default.aspx?id=157362

[PostmodernProphet]

Your intentional pairing of the two reveals more about you than I originally thought.of course....I'm not as good as you are.....

Too many Christians use both to make their religion but they do not follow every law there is in the OT, only the ones they want to follow or have "others" follow.

sorry, but I don't intend to let this type of comment "derail" me......

[ptif219]

of course....I'm not as good as you are.....



sorry, but I don't intend to let this type of comment "derail" me......

Think he knows there is a new and old covenant and that Jesus took the place of Leviticus laws?

[namguy]

I found this list just wonder what you think.

http://www.christianworldviewnetwork.com/article.php/2062/Rev_Dr_David_M_Berman_ThD

1) Liberals are relativists and hate Christians because Christians believe in absolute truth.
2) Liberals do not want anyone to say that immorality is immoral.
3) Liberals are selfish and are more interested in their “feelings” then they are with what is right for others.
4) Liberals misunderstand what Christians really believe.
5) Since liberals see themselves as the superior enlighten ones they do not recognize that taking a position against their position is not automatically hate.
6) Liberals do not want to listen to what makes sense, they would rather listen to their senses.
7) Liberals ignore the clear evidence of the result of their philosophical positions influence on the last 40 years. It had been a social disaster and they do not want to hear it.
8) They see Christians as intellectually inferior.
9) Liberals see Christians as wanting to impose their religion on them when in truth it is the liberals who have used the courts system to impose their secular humanism religion on all of us.
10) Liberals are spiritually lost and blind to the truth of the gospel.

That's not so.

[ptif219]

That's not so.

Show me whats not so.

[namguy]

Show me whats not so.

Show you?!! Please explain to me just how I can do this.

[ECW]

Show you?!! Please explain to me just how I can do this.

Don't bother. When I showed him he called me an arrogant, elitist hater. You'll be in for the same "Christian" attitude if you venture there, my friend.

[ptif219]

Show you?!! Please explain to me just how I can do this.

Your the one that said so back it up.:ponder:

[ptif219]

Don't bother. When I showed him he called me an arrogant, elitist hater. You'll be in for the same "Christian" attitude if you venture there, my friend.

You showed nothing you just slammed conservatives and christians.

[namguy]

Don't bother. When I showed him he called me an arrogant, elitist hater. You'll be in for the same "Christian" attitude if you venture there, my friend.

I think it's more like YOUR attude. I'm not your friend.

[ECW]

You showed nothing you just slammed conservatives and christians.

When viewed thru the eyes of a hater, I can see how you can take a differing opinion and twist it all up to come to that conclusion. Pray I never stoop to the level of "Christian Love" you have plummeted to.

I think it's more like YOUR attude. I'm not your friend.

Yep. That's pretty clear now. Good luck!

[tecoyah]

I am Not a Liberal...nor do I hate Christians.


However, after reading this thread I am sorely tempted.

[Buck Laser]

I am Not a Liberal...nor do I hate Christians.
However, after reading this thread I am sorely tempted.
I understand exactly what you mean, tecoyeh. I am both a Christian and a liberal, even from a denomination that our resident "expert" declares to be "evangelical," the United Methodists. But the claptrap that's been spewed in this thread absolutely boggles the mind.

Mahatma Ghandi once said something like "I love your Jesus, Lord, but please protect me from his followers." I feel sorta like I need a long shower after seeing the "love" some of these Christians spew.

[Pookie]

I don't hate anyone, and I'm a liberal.
WTF?
That's nuts, hating anyone. There is too much love and joy in this world for me to even think about hate.
What is wrong with people, who need to hate?
Gaaaahhhh!
Get a life.
Purrs,
Pookie

[namguy]

When viewed thru the eyes of a hater, I can see how you can take a differing opinion and twist it all up to come to that conclusion. Pray I never stoop to the level of "Christian Love" you have plummeted to.



Yep. That's pretty clear now. Good luck!

The only thing that's clear is that you can't back up what your trying to say(?). You sit in judgement over me making assumptions; "He who is without sin cast the first stone."

[ECW]

The only thing that's clear is that you can't back up what your trying to say(?). You sit in judgement over me making assumptions; "He who is without sin cast the first stone."

Sorry, but I did back up what I was saying. Go back and read the second post in this thread. Some folks did not like what I was saying and tried to make it seem like I was throwing hate around but I wasn't. I guess that's what you get when you try to have a rational conversation with people who have already made up their minds about things and take any variance of their point of view as "elitism" or "hatred." In fact, the personal attack launched in this thread was done by ptf219, not me. There's your judgement for ya.

I'm not sitting in judgement over anybody (including you) and that's the very point of this thread. My opposition was judging me and my point of view while trying to claim that Liberal Christians were the ones doing the judging. I made no assumptions about you, for you, with you or without you. I only warned you if you were going to jump in this thread and express an opinion contrary to the "evangelical" opinion already expressed that you may be called a hater. You took it from there.

And since we are exchanging Bible verses, I have one for you: Love One Another, my friend.

Good luck!

[Thirdparty]

But the scriptures are clear on homosexuality , six passages, four in the New Testament. Maybe not so clear on abortion, although certainly killing is wrong under most circumstances, even all, except some might be necessary, like self defense.

TP


Simple, just like my liberal Christian friends do. They believe abortion and gay marriage is wrong, but aren't willing to force their morals on other people. They wouldn't engage themselves in a homosexual relationship and they wouldn't have abortions.

I guess to you, a Christian means you have to force morals on everyone eh?

[tecoyah]

The only thing that's clear is that you can't back up what your trying to say(?). You sit in judgement over me making assumptions; "He who is without sin cast the first stone."

I can only Assume that stone you just threw will be backed up without judgment.

[namguy]

Sorry, but I did back up what I was saying. Go back and read the second post in this thread. Some folks did not like what I was saying and tried to make it seem like I was throwing hate around but I wasn't. I guess that's what you get when you try to have a rational conversation with people who have already made up their minds about things and take any variance of their point of view as "elitism" or "hatred." In fact, the personal attack launched in this thread was done by ptf219, not me. There's your judgement for ya.

I'm not sitting in judgement over anybody (including you) and that's the very point of this thread. My opposition was judging me and my point of view while trying to claim that Liberal Christians were the ones doing the judging. I made no assumptions about you, for you, with you or without you. I only warned you if you were going to jump in this thread and express an opinion contrary to the "evangelical" opinion already expressed that you may be called a hater. You took it from there.

And since we are exchanging Bible verses, I have one for you: Love One Another, my friend.

Good luck!

That's not a quote from the Bible, you miss quoted the verse.
Misunderstood the thread.

[ptif219]

That's not a quote from the Bible, you miss quoted the verse.
Misunderstood the thread.

Thats ok namguy not a big deal Shake the dust off you sandals and move on.

Trust me we never lose sleep over ECW don't take him to serious.

[namguy]

Thats ok namguy not a big deal Shake the dust off you sandals and move on.

Trust me we never lose sleep over ECW don't take him to serious.

Ha, ha...okay.

[Buck Laser]

That's not a quote from the Bible, you miss quoted the verse.
Misunderstood the thread.
Take a look at John 13:34, namguy.

[ptif219]

Take a look at John 13:34, namguy.

That does not qualify when you cherry pick a few words out of a verse.

Quote the verse in context.

[ECW]

That's not a quote from the Bible, you miss quoted the verse.
Misunderstood the thread.

Yeah. Right. I "miss quoted the verse."

John 13:34-35 (New International Version)
New International Version (NIV)
Copyright © 1973, 1978, 1984 by International Bible Society


34 "A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another.

35 By this all men will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another."

Thats ok namguy not a big deal Shake the dust off you sandals and move on.

Trust me we never lose sleep over ECW don't take him to serious.

More of the Christian love you are famous for.

Right on, doode.

[ptif219]

Yeah. Right. I "miss quoted the verse."

John 13:34-35 (New International Version)
New International Version (NIV)
Copyright © 1973, 1978, 1984 by International Bible Society


34 "A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another.

35 By this all men will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another."


You earned that all on your own with you attitude.I just say it as I see it.
More of the Christian love you are famous for.

Right on, doode.

[tecoyah]

That's not a quote from the Bible, you miss quoted the verse.
Misunderstood the thread.

John 13:34-35 (New International Version)
New International Version (NIV)

Copyright © 1973, 1978, 1984 by International Bible Society
[NIV at IBS] [International Bible Society] [NIV at Zondervan] [Zondervan]

34"A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. 35By this all men will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another."


It's clear that regardless of what might be posted verbatim from scripture here, it will be interpreted differently by everyone to fit the agenda. This is EXACTLY why the Bibles should not be used as a textbook (in my opinion). There can be no agreed upon version of "Gods Word", as long as it is read by Humans.

[Deadshot]

:clapper::clapper:Well put tecoyah. :clapper::clapper:

Liberals don't hate Christians, we hate the idea that one sect can claim one reading as the "Word of God" and another can claim the exact opposite.

So many Christians, good-kind-loving people simply live by the Golden Rule; a few, vocal-angry-fearful Christians want to use their voice to hurt others and force their ideals on the rest of us.

All and all, I think Liberals like Christians, and when you consider that the last few elections have 48% of the USA voting for the DEMS in '04; 48%, the majority of the popular vote, voted for DEMS in '00; and we elected a DEM POTUS in '92 & '96 I think it's fascinating when you compare those facts with this one...http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_the_United_States...Most U.S. adult citizens identify themselves as Christians (76.5 - 78.5%)

[namguy]

Yeah. Right. I "miss quoted the verse."

John 13:34-35 (New International Version)
New International Version (NIV)
Copyright © 1973, 1978, 1984 by International Bible Society


34 "A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another.

35 By this all men will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another."



More of the Christian love you are famous for.

Right on, doode.

Personally, I don't refer to any other Biblle other than the KJV, my personal thing.

[Deadshot]

But to be honest, namguy, that's the problem. Each has their own Bible and interpretation of such book. Hence the reason that some Christians accept homosexuality and others condemn it, all the while both believing in Jesus Christ and his teachings...

[ptif219]

But to be honest, namguy, that's the problem. Each has their own Bible and interpretation of such book. Hence the reason that some Christians accept homosexuality and others condemn it, all the while both believing in Jesus Christ and his teachings...

Show me where the Bible accepts homosexuals.

[Deadshot]

"Treat others as you would have them treat you." It's the Golden Rule.

You shouldn't hate or damn anyone. Be accepting and it will all work out.

BTW, from WIKI, "A few Christian denominations do not condemn homosexual acts as bad or evil. Many liberal Christians are open and affirming to active homosexuals. Indeed, there is a denomination of 40,000 members, the Metropolitan Community Church, devoted to being open and affirming to active homosexuals. The United Church of Christ also condones gay marriage and some parts of the Anglican and Lutheran churches allow for the blessing of gay unions. The United Church of Canada also allows same-sex marriage, and views sexual orientation as a gift from God."

[BoogyMan]

"Treat others as you would have them treat you." It's the Golden Rule.
Wouldn't you want someone to tell you if you were in error? This verse does not erradicate the teachings of Romans and 1 Corinthians that condemns homosexuality as sin.

Be accepting and it will all work out.
I would love to see some biblical references for this DS.

[Deadshot]

Wouldn't you want someone to tell you if you were in error? This verse does not erradicate the teachings of Romans and 1 Corinthians that condemns homosexuality as sin.


If you think that they're in error, tell them about it, but do not legislate and fight to have laws enacted to stop their actions. Biblically, MANY marriages should not be allowed to have a divorce or be annulled. Jeez-Louise Rudy Guilliani had his 16 year marriage ANNULLED!

Preach against it, as you would porn or divorce, but don't outlaw it.





I would love to see some biblical references for this DS.

We've played this game before Boogy. I bring my quotes and you say that I've misinterpretted, and we argue about interpretation.

I said "You shouldn't hate or damn anyone. Be accepting and it will all work out.", you want proof that the Bible says you shouldn't hate or damn people, well Boogy, why don't you find the proof that the Bible says that it's ok to Hate and Damn people. I try to look for the good and positive in the word of God, I'll let you look for His hatred.

[BoogyMan]

We've played this game before Boogy. I bring my quotes and you say that I've misinterpretted, and we argue about interpretation.

I said "You shouldn't hate or damn anyone. Be accepting and it will all work out.", you want proof that the Bible says you shouldn't hate or damn people, well Boogy, why don't you find the proof that the Bible says that it's ok to Hate and Damn people. I try to look for the good and positive in the word of God, I'll let you look for His hatred.

Cop out as usual.

I asked you to support your "be accepting and it will all work out" rhetoric. You can not find that ANYWHERE in the New Testament. It isn't there. With regard to homosexuality, it certainly isn't there as it is specifically condemned.

The Corinthians were accepting sin among their ranks and it merited a whole epistle to deal with their error.

"Be accepting and it will all work out" is quite simply a sure path to condemnation.

[Deadshot]

Treat others as you wish to be treated. That's how I live my life and things are pretty good. Wonderful, attractive wife (definitely out of my league), great loving kids, good job, good benefits, good education, etc.

It's worked out pretty well for me so far Boogy. Tell me, how has condeming people worked out for you?

As to the Corinthians, that's your reading and interpretation, not everyone's.

If we followed the Golden Rule, instead of the myriad of Biblical interpretations out there, then we'd be better off.

By the way, hows the NT deal with people's of differing religions, Boogy? Doesn't the NT codemn different religions as wrong? We doing anything about outlawing religion?

[BoogyMan]

So you are actually going to argue that 1st Corinthians was not specifically written to the church in Corinth to deal with their acceptance of sin among their ranks? That has to be the most revealing comment you have made so far. It shows not only that you have no biblical knowledge, but that you will simply toss out a "point" without doing any research.

I see you wish to try and claim that pointing out error is equivalent to trying to write law against something again. That tired old dishonest dog won't hunt DS.

[Buck Laser]

What Boogy seems to suffer from is bibliolatry. He worships the bible, and if it doesn't please him, he changes it. He can easily dismiss stuff like the rapture (which I also dismiss), because he can interpret around it. He likes the Old Testament unless it doesn't exactly fit his his preconceptions. Most other Christians worship Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

Some of us have been trying to point this out to him for as long as we've been on DF, but he obtusely refuses to admit the possibility of different understandings than his.

So in response to the original question, "do liberals hate evangelical Christians?," I must say that I certainly don't hate them in general, but some of them are so annoying that they piss me off royally. I will now expect a reply telling me I'm running away from the question.

[BoogyMan]

What Boogy seems to suffer from is bibliolatry. He worships the bible, and if it doesn't please him, he changes it. He can easily dismiss stuff like the rapture (which I also dismiss), because he can interpret around it. He likes the Old Testament unless it doesn't exactly fit his his preconceptions. Most other Christians worship Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

The reply you should expect is not that you are running away from the question, but that you are making the question up to suit your demand that the bible be seen as something that no-one can understand.

When the bible clearly condemns something there is no interpretation required, Buck.

[Buck Laser]

In the famous words of Rush Limbaugh, "see? I told you so.":clapper:

[namguy]

But to be honest, namguy, that's the problem. Each has their own Bible and interpretation of such book. Hence the reason that some Christians accept homosexuality and others condemn it, all the while both believing in Jesus Christ and his teachings...

Okay...

[ttriber]

What Boogy seems to suffer from is bibliolatry. He worships the bible, and if it doesn't please him, he changes it. He can easily dismiss stuff like the rapture (which I also dismiss), because he can interpret around it. He likes the Old Testament unless it doesn't exactly fit his his preconceptions. Most other Christians worship Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

Some of us have been trying to point this out to him for as long as we've been on DF, but he obtusely refuses to admit the possibility of different understandings than his.

So in response to the original question, "do liberals hate evangelical Christians?," I must say that I certainly don't hate them in general, but some of them are so annoying that they piss me off royally. I will now expect a reply telling me I'm running away from the question.

Liberals don't hate the average Christian, they despise them just look at the voting records of most liberals. If they cared they wouldn't have voted for Abortion, taking away prayer from school, have kids be taught sex ed..

A good example of What I'm talking about is Charlie Wilson's War movie, when a person comes to see the Congressmen and tells the congressmen about a christian issue and the Democrat congressmen throws him out of the office. Liberals have never cared about christianity and this movie shows it. The only time they do care about christians is when the voting season starts then they flaunt there 1 or 2 laws they claim as christian and trie to get christians to vote for them.

Christians aren't stupid like some liberal posters here have made the point to make, most christians vote republican because the republicans have been helpful and have obviously helped christian conservatives get there issues on the main platform.

[BoogyMan]

In the famous words of Rush Limbaugh, "see? I told you so.":clapper:


I see that you didn't read the post as usual, Buck. :thumbsup:

[Buck Laser]

I see that you didn't read the post as usual, Buck. :thumbsup:
And you, as usual, don't connect with reality. I don't care if you want to hang on to your own beliefs--just don't try to drag me into your beliefs. If God punishes me for not believing as you do, I promise I won't blame you. I hereby absolve you of any obligation to try to "correct" me. Now please leave me alone.

[BoogyMan]

And you, as usual, don't connect with reality. I don't care if you want to hang on to your own beliefs--just don't try to drag me into your beliefs. If God punishes me for not believing as you do, I promise I won't blame you. I hereby absolve you of any obligation to try to "correct" me. Now please leave me alone.

Anything you post in an open forum is up for question and debate Buck, pure and simple.

[Kyi Yo]

I voted "No". But, after reading this thread and what evangelical Christians believe about forcing their beliefs on others......... Well, out here in Indian Country, we've been the victims of that kind of mentality before.

I think I'll go change my vote....... We don't want anymore Christian boarding schools forced on us!

*grumbles* Okay, can't change my vote. Just so ya'll know to add one more to the "yes" pile and take one off the "no" pile. Sad day when I join the haters on this board.

[tecoyah]

Sad day when I join the haters on this board.


Don't Hate....do what the rest of us do.

*Shakes head in pity and chuckles at the failed logic*

[AnnEsthesia]

I do not hate evangelicals. I just wish they would leave people alone once they know they do not wish to hear it.

[Deadshot]

AMEN!

[Kyi Yo]

Heck, it's kind of hard to do "Indian sarcasm" without people being able to see facial and hand gestures. Just know that's what it was *G*

[NIOSA]

I don't believe that being a liberal makes one hate or even dislike Christianity anymore than being a conservative necessairly makes one love Christianity.
A political idealogy, IMO, has nothing to do with religion or even faith.
So, "I'm not sure" is what I voted, cause who knows the hearts of anybody?

[AnnEsthesia]

Also, it begs the question... do people dislike evangelicals because they are 'evangelical christians', or because of the way those people act and treat other people?

[NIOSA]

Explain to me how christians can be liberal and support abortion and gay marriage.

Evangelical christians follow God's Word not some liberal watered down version that is more humanist then christian.

Well, not all liberals do support abortion, Harry Reid comes to mind.

[NIOSA]

to me, abortion isn't about forcing morality on anyone....it's about forcing death on children......

I sure agree with that.

[Deadshot]

I sure agree with that.


NIO, what's the answer then? I'm adopted and wished more people would take that route, but they don't. So tell me, what is the answer?

Abstinence?
Forced Adoption?
Forced Sterilization?
Forced Abstinence?

What's the answer? Before Abortion, people still had them, so were we to stop it tomorrow, people would still have them. Give me a viable option that trumps abortion.

[NIOSA]

Also, it begs the question... do people dislike evangelicals because they are 'evangelical christians', or because of the way those people act and treat other people?

"Those people act & treat other people"
I think that's a bit far fetched, "those poeple"? How do "those people" act & treat other people? Are you lumping millions & millions of "those people" in the same pot? Isn't that a tad hypocritical? You don't want "those people" doing whatever it is you imagine they're doing, but it's ok for others to push their agenda onto those that disagree with their agenda?

[NIOSA]

NIO, what's the answer then? I'm adopted and wished more people would take that route, but they don't. So tell me, what is the answer?

Abstinence?
Forced Adoption?
Forced Sterilization?
Forced Abstinence?

What's the answer? Before Abortion, people still had them, so were we to stop it tomorrow, people would still have them. Give me a viable option that trumps abortion.

The answer should not be state sanctioned killings.
Yes, abortions have been around for a long time before it was made legal.
I have no idea what the answer is except that maybe people should start taking some responsibility for their actions. "For every action, there is a reaction" Maybe if morals were made more acceptable rather than glorifying these young girls for "laying down".

[AnnEsthesia]

"Those people act & treat other people"
I think that's a bit far fetched, "those poeple"? How do "those people" act & treat other people? Are you lumping millions & millions of "those people" in the same pot? Isn't that a tad hypocritical? You don't want "those people" doing whatever it is you imagine they're doing, but it's ok for others to push their agenda onto those that disagree with their agenda?

The question was whether 'liberals' hate 'evangelical christians'. If you are asking whether all 'liberals' hate all 'evangelical christians', then the answer is clearly no. But if some 'liberals' dislike some 'evangelical christians', my question is whether you believe it is because of what they are, or what they are doing.

[NIOSA]

The question was whether 'liberals' hate 'evangelical christians'. If you are asking whether all 'liberals' hate all 'evangelical christians', then the answer is clearly no. But if some 'liberals' dislike some 'evangelical christians', my question is whether you believe it is because of what they are, or what they are doing.

I have answered that, post #138.

[Deadshot]

The answer should not be state sanctioned killings.
Yes, abortions have been around for a long time before it was made legal.
I have no idea what the answer is except that maybe people should start taking some responsibility for their actions. "For every action, there is a reaction" Maybe if morals were made more acceptable rather than glorifying these young girls for "laying down".

But you've made my point for me, NIO, "young girls" sometimes don't have morals. Mistakes, have and will continue to be made, and some cannot handle those mistakes and choose a bad way, i.e. abortion, as a way out.

What's to stop them from doing that? Abstinence has lowered the rate, but not stopped abortions, so that isn't the answer. As to morality, that's an individual call. Many of the men I know lost their virginity before leaving high school, and quite a few of the women too - does that mean their all immoral, or that they simply gave in to lust at one time?

Again, what's the solution?

[AnnEsthesia]

But since you are not the only other person on this thread, the hypothetical question was not just for you.

[tecoyah]

I dislike ANYONE who is arrogant enough to think they should decide what my personal life will be like. I avoid them whenever possible, ignore them when I can't, and confront them if they get pushy...it does not matter what part of MY life they try to push on.

[NIOSA]

But you've made my point for me, NIO, "young girls" sometimes don't have morals. Mistakes, have and will continue to be made, and some cannot handle those mistakes and choose a bad way, i.e. abortion, as a way out.

What's to stop them from doing that? Abstinence has lowered the rate, but not stopped abortions, so that isn't the answer. As to morality, that's an individual call. Many of the men I know lost their virginity before leaving high school, and quite a few of the women too - does that mean their all immoral, or that they simply gave in to lust at one time?

Again, what's the solution?

Again, i don't have the solution, but still say that states sanctiong any death (yes, i am against the death penalty as well) should not be, IMO.
Sex outside of marriage is immoral, again, IMO, so yes, abstinence should be taught.
Older women that find themselves asking for their unborn baby to be killed are bereft of the sanctity of life, IMO.
I don't pretend to judge anyone for what i believe is wrong, however, i don't expect the same people that pass judgement on me for my beliefs are any better than I would be at passing judgement.

[NIOSA]

I dislike ANYONE who is arrogant enough to think they should decide what my personal life will be like. I avoid them whenever possible, ignore them when I can't, and confront them if they get pushy...it does not matter what part of MY life they try to push on.

Then i'd bet that you really hate politicians, the ones that decide what your life will be or not be in so many areas.

[NIOSA]

But since you are not the only other person on this thread, the hypothetical question was not just for you.

I don't even know what that means. :confused: Did you not bring the OP question up to me, i answered it.

[Truth_and_Power]

I didnt vote on this question intially because I thought it was a stupid question.. but upon further review I think I am starting to hate them just a little bit :blah:

[tecoyah]

Then i'd bet that you really hate politicians, the ones that decide what your life will be or not be in so many areas.

Yes, as a matter of fact most fit the ignore criteria...or are avoided. Some however do impact my life directly...and I confront them with my vote.

[NIOSA]

Yes, as a matter of fact most fit the ignore criteria...or are avoided. Some however do impact my life directly...and I confront them with my vote.

See there, you exercise your right to vote, others exercise their right to free speech.

[tecoyah]

See there, you exercise your right to vote, others exercise their right to free speech.

Which I have no real issue with, until they do so in my face.

[namguy]

Which I have no real issue with, until they do so in my face.

Okay.