Bush Gets Rough Reception in Utah

[Alonzo]

PARK CITY, Utah - President George W. Bush visited Park City to help shake the pockets of donors at a Deer Valley function to bolster Republican campaigns. The Park Record has no report of how well the money-rustling went, but it does report that Bush was greeted, after a fashion, with crude signs and hand gestures.

These hand gestures apparently weren’t friendly hand waves. Summit County Sheriff Dave Edmunds described them as “classless and embarrassing.”

To ensure the president’s safety, 47 law officers were called out to help monitor the motorcade route. The cost to local taxpayers for overtime pay was $30,000.

The county commissioners supported the expenditure, if not necessarily Bush.

“Frankly I don’t care whether he lives or dies,” said one commissioner, Sally Elliott. “But don’t let him die in Summit County.”

http://www.vaildaily.com/article/20080604/NEWS/830608442

Wow, I knew he was unpopular but damn that's rough, and in Utah?

[ECW]

There are sensible people even in Utah who realize their country is being ripped apart by the Neocon Bozo George W Bush. They gave him the appropriate welcome.

[micfranklin]

Serves his right.

[Trish]

Yep, even in Utah, there are people with no class and no concept of showing respect to the office if not the officeholder. Our freedom of speech gives us all the right to demonstrate with disgusting regularity how low class and uncivil we can be.

[Elrathin]

Yep, even in Utah, there are people with no class and no concept of showing respect to the office if not the officeholder. Our freedom of speech gives us all the right to demonstrate with disgusting regularity how low class and uncivil we can be.

Respect is not guaranteed, it is earned.

[Alonzo]

Well, this line goes a bit beyond lack of respect:

“Frankly I don’t care whether he lives or dies,” said one commissioner, Sally Elliott. “But don’t let him die in Summit County.”

Though it is kind of funny.

[Trish]

Well, this line goes a bit beyond lack of respect:



Though it is kind of funny.

Can you imagine the turmoil that comment would have caused if it had been said related to Senator Obama? Hell Senator Clinton mentions that RFK was assassinated in June while still campaigning for the nomination and she's damn near lynched for "hoping" Senator Obama will be assassinated. If someone had made this comment about not caring whether Senator Obama lives or dies, I cringe to think of the reaction! But since it's about President Bush - it serves him right.

[Trish]

Respect is not guaranteed, it is earned.

And the "office" earns the respect? The office is due a level of respect even if the office holder is not. It's like in the military - you salute the rank - not the person.

[potter]

Yep, even in Utah, there are people with no class and no concept of showing respect to the office if not the officeholder. Our freedom of speech gives us all the right to demonstrate with disgusting regularity how low class and uncivil we can be.

I can't think of anyone more low class and vulgar than Bush. He himself has distrepected the office more than any middle finger ever will.

You may maintain they were flipping off "the office", however they were indeed flipping off "the chimp".

[Trish]

I can't think of anyone more low class and vulgar than Bush. He himself has distrepected the office more than any middle finger ever will.

You may maintain they were flipping off "the office", however they were indeed flipping off "the chimp".

I am aware of who they were flipping off. My point was that their desire for expressing their disdain for the man trumped the respect for the office - hence my comment "...there are people with no class and no concept of showing respect to the office if not the officeholder."

[tecoyah]

I can't think of anyone more low class and vulgar than Bush. He himself has distrepected the office more than any middle finger ever will.

You may maintain they were flipping off "the office", however they were indeed flipping off "the chimp".


....I am forced to agree with this sentiment. They were dissing George Bush....not the President of the United States, had he been a competent and well liked man he would not have been subjected to ridicule.

[suedanim]

Yep, even in Utah, there are people with no class and no concept of showing respect to the office if not the officeholder. Our freedom of speech gives us all the right to demonstrate with disgusting regularity how low class and uncivil we can be.

Respect for the office is a given. George Bush, the officeholder, has earned no respect hence he gets back what he has given the American people. I wish him no harm, but he IS responsible for much horror, including a debt my great-grandchildren will be paying off in their dotage. The buck stops in the Oval Office.

I'm quite sure the good people who bothered to come out are ALL decent, honorable citizens. In fact, some lost their sons in the Iraq war, while others are former soldiers. This rally was organized by the former Mayor of SLC.

The really disgusting, uncivil thing about Bush's visit was his reason for being there in the first place, to wheedle millions out of Utah's elite for John McCain's campaign! Oh yeah... and McCain doesn't even want to be SEEN beside the George Kryptonite Bush. How disgusting is that?! Bush has become toxic to most Republicans campaigns for office.

So... there is a good valid reason why the people might be upset with George and Republican candidates know it all too well. Young people are more and more angry and antiwar students, as some of us well know, will rarely give kudos or respect to those in elected office who send their peers off to die in a war for all the wrong reasons, based upon lies.

From another source....


Demonstrators gather to protest Bush, war (http://media.www.dailyutahchronicle.com/media/storage/paper244/news/2008/06/04/News/Demonstrators.Gather.To.Protest.Bush.War-3378356.shtml)



By: Dan Fletcher (http://media.www.dailyutahchronicle.com/user/index.cfm?event=displayAuthorProfile&authorid=1507211)

Issue date: 6/4/08 Section: News (http://media.www.dailyutahchronicle.com/news/2008/06/04/News/)

Hundreds of demonstrators packed Washington Square Park on May 28 to let President George W. Bush know that not all Utahns are behind the war in Iraq or his administration.

"Let us all, without regard to political partisanship, join together in restoring our democracy, restoring the role of law and restoring our nation's moral standing on history's high road," said former Salt Lake City Mayor Rocky Anderson as the sun set over a crowd of people ranging from mohawk-sporting punks to stroller-bearing soccer moms. "Let us never be silenced."

This declaration sent the crowd into applause and brought the Peace and Human Rights Rally to a close.

The event coincided with Bush's visit to Salt Lake City. Bush hosted two fundraising events for Sen. John McCain's presidential campaign alongside Mitt Romney-the first a $30,800-per-plate dinner at Romney's Deer Valley home. The second, more affordable event was held at the home of Sam Stewart, a local investment-fund manager, in Salt Lake City's Avenues neighborhood.

David Hansen, a Spanish major at the U and member of Salt Lake City's chapter of the Brown Berets, stood with his group members as they chanted outside the Salt Lake City and County Building.

"Bush is raping our nation," Hansen said.

The Brown Berets is a Chicano/a activist group that opposes racial discrimination, lack of political representation for minorities, inadequate public education and the wars from Vietnam to Iraq.

The rally featured speeches from Anderson; Marshall Thompson, a local soldier-turned-peace-activist; Kathy Snyder, a Cache Valley mother who lost her son in Iraq; and Daniel Ellsburg, the now-legendary whistle-blower who released the Pentagon Papers during the Vietnam War.

"The kind of republic that our framers had in mind doesn't exist at this moment," Ellsburg said. "But the question is, can we get it back? And what do we have to do?"

"Students must be proactive," Hansen said. "Education is the key to solving this problem. We have to take a look at our history and come to terms with what has to be done."

The Berets are working with Hands Off Latin America, Utah Workers International and other local groups on the Caravan to Cuba campaign-a collection drive that aims to provide Cuba with medicine and other supplies that are in shortage because of the U.S. embargo.

As the masses dispersed, Anderson was still swarmed by supporters shaking hands and taking pictures.

"Young people have always been at the forefront of major social movements in this country," he said. "They're the ones who have led."

d.fletcher@chronicle.utah.edu (d.fletcher@chronicle.utah.edu)

[Trish]

Respect for the office is a given. George Bush, the officeholder, has earned no respect hence he gets back what he has given the American people. I wish him no harm, but he IS responsible for much horror, including a debt my great-grandchildren will be paying off in their dotage. The buck stops in the Oval Office.

I'm quite sure the good people who bothered to come out are ALL decent, honorable citizens. In fact, some lost their sons in the Iraq war, while others are former soldiers. This rally was organized by the former Mayor of SLC.

The really disgusting, uncivil thing about Bush's visit was his reason for being there in the first place, to wheedle millions out of Utah's elite for John McCain's campaign! Oh yeah... and McCain doesn't even want to be SEEN beside the George Kryptonite Bush. How disgusting is that?! Bush has become toxic to most Republicans campaigns for office.

So... there is a good valid reason why the people might be upset with George and Republican candidates know it all too well. Young people are more and more angry and antiwar students, as some of us well know, will rarely give kudos or respect to those in elected office who send their peers off to die in a war for all the wrong reasons, based upon lies.

From another source....


Demonstrators gather to protest Bush, war (http://media.www.dailyutahchronicle.com/media/storage/paper244/news/2008/06/04/News/Demonstrators.Gather.To.Protest.Bush.War-3378356.shtml)



By: Dan Fletcher (http://media.www.dailyutahchronicle.com/user/index.cfm?event=displayAuthorProfile&authorid=1507211)

Issue date: 6/4/08 Section: News (http://media.www.dailyutahchronicle.com/news/2008/06/04/News/)

Hundreds of demonstrators packed Washington Square Park on May 28 to let President George W. Bush know that not all Utahns are behind the war in Iraq or his administration.

"Let us all, without regard to political partisanship, join together in restoring our democracy, restoring the role of law and restoring our nation's moral standing on history's high road," said former Salt Lake City Mayor Rocky Anderson as the sun set over a crowd of people ranging from mohawk-sporting punks to stroller-bearing soccer moms. "Let us never be silenced."

This declaration sent the crowd into applause and brought the Peace and Human Rights Rally to a close.

The event coincided with Bush's visit to Salt Lake City. Bush hosted two fundraising events for Sen. John McCain's presidential campaign alongside Mitt Romney-the first a $30,800-per-plate dinner at Romney's Deer Valley home. The second, more affordable event was held at the home of Sam Stewart, a local investment-fund manager, in Salt Lake City's Avenues neighborhood.

David Hansen, a Spanish major at the U and member of Salt Lake City's chapter of the Brown Berets, stood with his group members as they chanted outside the Salt Lake City and County Building.

"Bush is raping our nation," Hansen said.

The Brown Berets is a Chicano/a activist group that opposes racial discrimination, lack of political representation for minorities, inadequate public education and the wars from Vietnam to Iraq.

The rally featured speeches from Anderson; Marshall Thompson, a local soldier-turned-peace-activist; Kathy Snyder, a Cache Valley mother who lost her son in Iraq; and Daniel Ellsburg, the now-legendary whistle-blower who released the Pentagon Papers during the Vietnam War.

"The kind of republic that our framers had in mind doesn't exist at this moment," Ellsburg said. "But the question is, can we get it back? And what do we have to do?"

"Students must be proactive," Hansen said. "Education is the key to solving this problem. We have to take a look at our history and come to terms with what has to be done."

The Berets are working with Hands Off Latin America, Utah Workers International and other local groups on the Caravan to Cuba campaign-a collection drive that aims to provide Cuba with medicine and other supplies that are in shortage because of the U.S. embargo.

As the masses dispersed, Anderson was still swarmed by supporters shaking hands and taking pictures.

"Young people have always been at the forefront of major social movements in this country," he said. "They're the ones who have led."

d.fletcher@chronicle.utah.edu (d.fletcher@chronicle.utah.edu)

I realize I'm hopelessly old-fashioned about many things - including the value of civil deportment. However, I believe that there are limits to how anyone should express their displeasure or dislike of the President - ANY President. Flipping off a person - any person - is a crude, boorish gesture. Flipping off the President of the United States is beyond boorish. Dislike the man, hate the man, despise the man - fine and dandy. The OFFICE he holds deserves better from the people of this country.

If and when Senator Obama becomes President of this country - HE will also deserve a level of respect because of the office he holds irregardless of whether or not I think he deserves respect as a man.

[Rage]

There are sensible people even in Utah who realize their country is being ripped apart by the Neocon Bozo George W Bush. They gave him the appropriate welcome.

As ignorant and uncouth and uncalled for as it was.

[micfranklin]

I realize I'm hopelessly old-fashioned about many things - including the value of civil deportment. However, I believe that there are limits to how anyone should express their displeasure or dislike of the President - ANY President. Flipping off a person - any person - is a crude, boorish gesture. Flipping off the President of the United States is beyond boorish. Dislike the man, hate the man, despise the man - fine and dandy. The OFFICE he holds deserves better from the people of this country.

If and when Senator Obama becomes President of this country - HE will also deserve a level of respect because of the office he holds irregardless of whether or not I think he deserves respect as a man.

Bush would get the respect from people when he admits he fucked up big time and starts respecting the country, moreso the constitution and the soldiers he sent to die in Iraq. No one flips him off because they're bored, they flip him off because he's a fucktard.

[Sublimating]

And the "office" earns the respect? The office is due a level of respect even if the office holder is not. It's like in the military - you salute the rank - not the person.

What do you mean "the office is due respect"? That is perhaps the biggest pile of crap I've ever heard in my life! Do you honestly suppose that simply because a man holds the office that he should be exempted from the brutal realities of what happens when you utterly fail the people who elected you to hold that office? Give me a break! Kings have been beheaded for less than Bush has done to this great country and its people. Tell the thousands of families who buried loved ones because of the foolish war Bush led us into that they need to "respect the office" This man lied and manipulated a nation still grieving the tragedy of 9-11 and used the death of the thousands who died to garner support for and ill conceived and unnecessary war. Meanwhile ignoring the international community and all credible intelligence contradicting his desires. The man was and still is a fool and a total disgrace to the office.
He deserves the respect given to mass murderers.

[lily]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YVynnbx1Xsc

Yeah, it is rather crude and boorish..


........I suppose if there was a way that Bush could get to these fundraisers without going through public streets, then he wouldn't know things like this happen or how people feel about him.......of course I suppose we could make the no free speech zone larger, like a mile in either direction?

[Buck Laser]

If and when Senator Obama becomes President of this country - HE will also deserve a level of respect because of the office he holds irregardless of whether or not I think he deserves respect as a man.
But Trish, do you think ANY of the Obama bashers here are gonna modify their behavior? One mod has already promised five more years of bashing. I did compliment him on recognizing that Obama's election is practically a sure thing.

I lived--suffered--through eight years of Clinton bashing, and now nearly eight years of the most horrifically incompetent resident ever to disgrace the office. I'm not surprised that no one will be sorry to see him go. I don't wish death on him at all--but an anal cyst wouldn't bother me too much.

[Trish]

No wonder we have a nation of kids who have no concept of respect, have no concept of what is appropriate behavior and what is not, no concept of anything beyond themselves - we've taught them that.

Oh and Lily - context is everything. Remember?

[Trish]

But Trish, do you think ANY of the Obama bashers here are gonna modify their behavior? One mod has already promised five more years of bashing. I did compliment him on recognizing that Obama's election is practically a sure thing.

I lived--suffered--through eight years of Clinton bashing, and now nearly eight years of the most horrifically incompetent resident ever to disgrace the office. I'm not surprised that no one will be sorry to see him go. I don't wish death on him at all--but an anal cyst wouldn't bother me too much.

IF Senator Obama is elected and is treated to exhibits of such behavior, it will be equally ill-bred and disrespectful then as well. It's the BEHAVIOR that is reprehensible and to which I object - not the object.

[suedanim]

IF Senator Obama is elected and is treated to exhibits of such behavior, it will be equally ill-bred and disrespectful then as well. It's the BEHAVIOR that is reprehensible and to which I object - not the object.

Oh get a grip. What those people did is NOT reprehensible. All that illbred crap is ridiculous pontificating. Save your drama for people who are in horrific pain or buried..and their families who suffer from loss, from grief, from the horrors they have lived with every day in Iraq and Afganistan and here in the US.

Whats reprehensible is the imprisoned human beings at Guantanamo without due process, the hundreds rendered to other countries for SPESHUL torture, those tortured by Americans, sexually abused, humiliated and murdered. Reprehensible as well, are the thousands sickened, some permanently by toxic trailers, homeless thousands, over 1,000 drowned, over 1 million Americans displaced in their own country where the governments local, state and Federal failed them and STILL fails them.

PROTEST is the American way. I guess when the tea was dumped in the waters off Boston somebody was calling that reprehensible too. But, there comes a time when Americans have had enough and now is that time. As far as I'm concerned its a day late and a dollar short. We should have been in the streets BEFORE the invasion.

I don't advocate violence. I think the whole lot of them could have turned their backs on him and made a better statement. But.... people are angry and its going to get a lot worse before it gets better... especially if McCain is allowed to pick up where these horrible people have left off.

[Drocket]

PROTEST is the American way. I guess when the tea was dumped in the waters off Boston somebody was calling that reprehensible too. But, there comes a time when Americans have had enough and now is that time.

*applause*

As far as I'm concerned its a day late and a dollar short. We should have been in the streets BEFORE the invasion.

Actually, people were, in the largest demonstrations in American history. The media has done their best to pretend that never happened, though, because it interferes with their "Nobody could have known that Iraq would be a disaster!" cover-up of their own involvement.

[Elrathin]

And the "office" earns the respect? The office is due a level of respect even if the office holder is not. It's like in the military - you salute the rank - not the person.

They aren't flipping off the office, they were flipping off the PERSON that holds that office. There is a difference and you know it.

[Trish]

Oh get a grip. What those people did is NOT reprehensible. All that illbred crap is ridiculous pontificating. Save your drama for people who are in horrific pain or buried..and their families who suffer from loss, from grief, from the horrors they have lived with every day in Iraq and Afganistan and here in the US.

Whats reprehensible is the imprisoned human beings at Guantanamo without due process, the hundreds rendered to other countries for SPESHUL torture, those tortured by Americans, sexually abused, humiliated and murdered. Reprehensible as well, are the thousands sickened, some permanently by toxic trailers, homeless thousands, over 1,000 drowned, over 1 million Americans displaced in their own country where the governments local, state and Federal failed them and STILL fails them.

PROTEST is the American way. I guess when the tea was dumped in the waters off Boston somebody was calling that reprehensible too. But, there comes a time when Americans have had enough and now is that time. As far as I'm concerned its a day late and a dollar short. We should have been in the streets BEFORE the invasion.

I don't advocate violence. I think the whole lot of them could have turned their backs on him and made a better statement. But.... people are angry and its going to get a lot worse before it gets better... especially if McCain is allowed to pick up where these horrible people have left off.

I'll stop the ridiculous pontificating when you stop the self-righteous finger pointing and self-promotion.

Because one CAN say or do something doesn't mean they SHOULD. If you disagree - fine - disagree. Next time someone displays their freedom of speech to be disrespectful to Senator or Mrs. Obama - I'll remind you of your words. PROTEST is the American way - and any way one chooses to protest - crass or not - is a-okay with sue!

[Trish]

They aren't flipping off the office, they were flipping off the PERSON that holds that office. There is a difference and you know it.

Yeah, I know the difference, El. It's the difference in not showing President Roosevelt in his wheelchair although it was widely known he was crippled and asking a presidential candidate what kind of underwear he wore. It's a matter of respect - if not for the man, then the office the man holds. We once knew what that meant - we no longer give a damn.

[Elrathin]

we no longer give a damn.

When the man holding the office no longer gives a damn, why should we?

[Trish]

When the man holding the office no longer gives a damn, why should we?

That assumes that your statement is correct. Unless you have the ability to read the President's heart and mind, that's pure conjecture on your part. Maybe it's right, but maybe it's not.

As to why we should care - because it's the right thing to do? Because it demonstrates character, integrity and honor? Because it's simply the classy thing to do? Because being an ill-mannered jerk tends to diffuse one's message rather than strengthen it? Take your pick.

[Elrathin]

That assumes that your statement is correct.

Actions speak loudly and his actions speak that he doesn't care about anything but his "legacy"..

[suedanim]

I'll stop the ridiculous pontificating when you stop the self-righteous finger pointing and self-promotion.

Because one CAN say or do something doesn't mean they SHOULD. If you disagree - fine - disagree. Next time someone displays their freedom of speech to be disrespectful to Senator or Mrs. Obama - I'll remind you of your words. PROTEST is the American way - and any way one chooses to protest - crass or not - is a-okay with sue!

That line of disrespect has already been crossed long ago, by Geraldine Ferraro, Hillary Clinton.. some rightwingers... those who put his image in crosshairs, made jokes about him leaping under a chair from gunfire, have threatened his life, ect. Been there, done that with my own husband and family. You're talking to a tough old bitch that already been knowing whats up since 1967 when I began working with civil rights orgs and a Duke University newsletter. Freedom of speech is calling my children n***** and spitting in their hair. I have NO illusions about what some people will say and do to Obama and his family and I am VERY sure they have none either.

So...you won't have to be reminding me of anything.

[suedanim]

Actually, people were, in the largest demonstrations in American history. The media has done their best to pretend that never happened, though, because it interferes with their "Nobody could have known that Iraq would be a disaster!" cover-up of their own involvement.

I remember and no it didn't get much airtime... There were massive demonstrations around the world. It was surreal. I remember they were in Japan, Spain, London, France.... The world is watching us and its unbelievable to me that we ..at long last... after all the death and horror, still have people who are defending the policies and the people who brought them about.

[Trish]

I believe the President believes he has done and is doing the right thing for this country. He's not deaf or blind. He hears and sees the things said about him. If he didn't believe in what he's done and is doing why in the world would he set himself up for the staggering amount of hatred directed at him personally? Why would anyone select a "legacy" for himself that involved such loathing?

I'm not saying he's right in all his decisions. I am saying that I believe he does care and care deeply for this country. I don't think his "legacy" has a damn thing to do with his decisions. I have listened to him and watched him as he spoke, and I am convinced that he believes he is doing what is right for the country. Whether it is or not is another discussion - but as to him caring - I think it's obvious he cares greatly.

[ECW]

No wonder we have a nation of kids who have no concept of respect, have no concept of what is appropriate behavior and what is not, no concept of anything beyond themselves - we've taught them that.



The arrogance of this WH, the president, and all the Flying Monkeys who follow him have taught our kids that boorish behavior and bullying people is SOP. The fine folks in Utah were just applying the old dictum: what goes around comes around. You should not be surprised that the people who you show disrespect to turn around and show you the exact same disrespect in return.

Those people were entirely within their rights. I won't even mention the fact that the First Amendment says nothing about boorish behavior. Even Utahns are allowed to exercise those rights when they choose to, not when someone says they "ought" to.

BTW, Bush only cares about the people who agree with him. Nothing in seven years in the WH has shown me otherwise. Nothing in six years in Texas before that dissuaded me either. Shit, he cares so much he can't even get the name of our party correct. Yeah, he cares alright. My ass, he cares.

[Osborn F. Enready]

My point would be this Trish....

People feel smothered and helpless by the system to effect change, or stop things they don't agree with. If they could affect change, they might respect the office as they did in yesteryear when propaganda was stronger, but anymore the divide between bi-partisan Washington D.C. and the American people is beyond that respect.... hence the reason many politicians often seat their crowd with partisan loyalists and insiders for important speaking events....so now the fingers come out, the cat-calls grow louder and the people are being pushed to their limits on tolerance for this divide. I have never heard of a "free-speech zone" in a free-speech country.....that doesn't deserve my respect.

That is my opinion.

[Trish]

The arrogance of this WH, the president, and all the Flying Monkeys who follow him have taught our kids that boorish behavior and bullying people is SOP. The fine folks in Utah were just applying the old dictum: what goes around comes around. You should not be surprised that the people who you show disrespect to turn around and show you the exact same disrespect in return.

Those people were entirely within their rights. I won't even mention the fact that the First Amendment says nothing about boorish behavior. Even Utahns are allowed to exercise those rights when they choose to, not when someone says they "ought" to.

That's very true, ECW. They were entirely within their rights. If they want to demonstrate to the world they have no class, they certainly have the right to do so and don't need permission from me or anyone else in the process. By the same token, I don't need permission to relegate such behavior to that of uncivilized louts or to decry the decline in public comportment in our society.

[Trish]

My point would be this Trish....

People feel smothered and helpless by the system to effect change, or stop things they don't agree with. If they could affect change, they might respect the office as they did in yesteryear when propaganda was stronger, but anymore the divide between bi-partisan Washington D.C. and the American people is beyond that respect.... hence the reason many politicians often seat their crowd with partisan loyalists and insiders for important speaking events....so now the fingers come out, the cat-calls grow louder and the people are being pushed to their limits on tolerance for this divide. I have never heard of a "free-speech zone" in a free-speech country.....that doesn't deserve my respect.

That is my opinion.

Os -

And you gave your opinion respectfully and courteously. I appreciate that. I just feel very strongly that there is a right way and a wrong way to demonstrate one's distate or objection to things. Publicly flipping off anyone, much less the President of the United States, just goes beyond the pale for me. I quite understand that people feel helpless. I'm not immune to that feeling or to wanting things to change. I just don't feel that getting down into the gutter with the most common expression like giving the finger is helpful in accomplishing anything positive. The only thing such accomplishes in my opinion is to make the person doing it look small, mean, and out-of-control.

[Osborn F. Enready]

I see your point Trish, but I still think there are many who are ready to skip the rude gestures all together and just start the violence to rectify some new, and some old and long sawing wrongs.

We may be rude, but we are tolerant to a fault sometimes.

I am not advocating violence here, just saying there are many who think we are past talking and gestures, be thankful (or not) that it wasn't of that variety a welcome he received.

Before this nations people revolted against England, they sought peaceful means of recognition for wrongs for ten long years. There are some in this country who have been fighting wrongs for 50 years, hell, some political PARTIES that have fought that long for recognition that they still can't get, yet we aren't to violence yet......but everyday we seem to taking a step backwards toward it because so many today seem to think its impossible it will happen again.

Perhaps those who seek peaceful change should be happy it was only fingers being flown, and provide another reason to keep plowing for that change to happen, and eventually remove the insistence for the gestures, or the violence.

[lily]

Oh for the love of God.......the man is protested in every country he goes to, and Trish is upset because a few poeple gave him the finger in his own country. Unbelievable . He either better get used to it, stay in the White House or get darker windows if he travles through a city again.

[Drocket]

Just out of curiosity, would it be OK to give him the finger after he leaves office? :)

[apdst]

Does this mean that we're not going to hear a buncha cryin' when the same thing happens to Obama? Will he, too, be the Chimp in Charge?

[NortheastCynic]

This [like most things] didn't offend me in the least. Do I like the President, nope. Do I hate the President, nope. Would I give him the finger, nope; but the choice of other to do so doesn't really give me any pause.

I'm also very happy to hear this talk of 'when' Obama is President. I'll need something to laugh at after the inescapable reality of having John McCain as President for four years kicks in.

-NC

[PatrickHenry]

but as to him caring - I think it's obvious he cares greatly.Let me show you how much Bush cares...

http://streetknowledge.files.wordpress.com/2008/04/george-bush-middle-finger.jpg

Heh. And yet he still has the support of a "Democrat" in Texas...

[ECW]

Does this mean that we're not going to hear a buncha cryin' when the same thing happens to Obama? Will he, too, be the Chimp in Charge?

Nah. We expect it from you.

This made news because it was from Utah. They merely showed Bush the class he has shown everyone else. What goes around comes around.

[Trish]

Let me show you how much Bush cares...

http://streetknowledge.files.wordpress.com/2008/04/george-bush-middle-finger.jpg

Heh. And yet he still has the support of a "Democrat" in Texas...

The "President" has my support, PH. Bush just happens to be President currently. As I've stated, I feel the same about this type of behavior directed at ANY President. It's not Bush specific.

[Elrathin]

Does this mean that we're not going to hear a buncha cryin' when the same thing happens to Obama? Will he, too, be the Chimp in Charge?

Conservatives did similar things with Clinton so what do conservatives care? Oh yeah it's Bush, I forgot, have to have respect for a REPUBLICAN president. puuuhlease, time for some conservatives to get off their soapboxes and come back to reality.

And apdst, some conservatives just want to call Obama a Chimp because he is black. Bush earned the title for a couple of reasons, one was because he looks like one through his expressions.

[Elrathin]

The "President" has my support, PH.

We'll see just how much if Obama becomes the president Trish.

[Trish]

We'll see just how much if Obama becomes the president Trish.

If and when he's subjected to that kind of treatment, yes you will, El.

[Buck Laser]

Let me show you how much Bush cares...

http://streetknowledge.files.wordpress.com/2008/04/george-bush-middle-finger.jpg

Heh. And yet he still has the support of a "Democrat" in Texas...
PH, the picture of Bush captures his attitude all right, but the flag part is badly photoshopped, and it isn't necessary to make the point of Bush's disdain for his critics.

[potter]

The "President" has my support, PH. Bush just happens to be President currently. As I've stated, I feel the same about this type of behavior directed at ANY President. It's not Bush specific.

So it's OK for bush to disrespect the people of the US by giving them the finger but not the other way around? Doncha ever get tired of Washinton telling "we the people" to f*#k off?

This is why we need to completely scrap our political system and start over.

[micfranklin]

The "President" has my support, PH. Bush just happens to be President currently. As I've stated, I feel the same about this type of behavior directed at ANY President. It's not Bush specific.

He'll get my support when he admits he fucked up and starts fixing everything. Since that's very unlikely he won't have my support and I'd enjoy flipping off FDR if he were around.

[apdst]

And apdst, some conservatives just want to call Obama a Chimp because he is black. Bush earned the title for a couple of reasons, one was because he looks like one through his expressions.

Obama said there were 57 states. Sounds purdy chimpish, to me.

[ECW]

You really don't want to start matching up Obama misspeaks for Bush misspeaks, do you? That would be a contest I would dearly love to engage in. Two or three misspeaks does not a chimp make... unless you are a racist and just want a reason to call a black man an ape. Someone even made a coloring book featuring the misquotes of your illustrious WAR president.

http://images.amazon.com/images/P/1891053949.01._SCLZZZZZZZ_.jpg

[apdst]

Bush has never mispoke the way Obama has mispoke. "I see some of the soldiers we've lost sitting right in front of me". "Our soldiers are dieing for nothing". "We've been to 57 states". The list goes on.

Two or three misspeaks does not a chimp make... unless you are a racist and just want a reason to call a black man an ape.

Anyone that criticizes Obama is a racist? That's to be expected.

[Deadshot]

Bush has been wrong and people died. Anyone die because of Obama's missteps?

[ECW]

Bush has never mispoke the way Obama has mispoke. "I see some of the soldiers we've lost sitting right in front of me". "Our soldiers are dieing for nothing". "We've been to 57 states". The list goes on.

You are up to three. Big f'n whoop. I got your three and raise you 300.

Anyone that criticizes Obama is a racist? That's to be expected.

Nice strawman but that's not what I said. Typical response from a Neocon, though. Try again. Try to get it right this time. If you are capable...

[Elrathin]

The fact is funny you don't even understand how Bush got the name "Chimp" Easy. Again, most conservatives just want to call Obama a Chimp because he is black.

[apdst]

Anyone die because of Obama's missteps?

Obama isn't in any position to make decisions, so we shall see. I predict that if Obama is elected, his miscalculations will cost the lives of millions. History will repeat itself like we've never seen before.

You are up to three. Big f'n whoop. I got your three and raise you 300.

Give Obama time. He'll exceed that in his first twelve months.


Again, most conservatives just want to call Obama a Chimp because he is black.

No, I call him a chimp because he's a Liberal. I don't care what color his skin is, unlike the Libbos.

[NortheastCynic]

Two things, Apdst.

First: are you aware of the racist overtones and history of calling a black man any variation of the word 'monkey'?

Second: Explain to me why chimp = liberal. The symbolism makes no sense to me.

-NC

[apdst]

are you aware of the racist overtones and history of calling a black man any variation of the word 'monkey'?

So? Obama gets a special pass because he's black? Or should he be subject to everything that Bush has been? The latter, I would think.

Did Obama misspeak when he said he voted against authorization for the war in Iraq, or was he just lieing?

[NortheastCynic]

So? Obama gets a special pass because he's black? The question was of the yes-or-no variety. So, yes, you're aware of the history? Special treatment? You obviously don't know where the 'chimp' thing came from with regard to the current President, do you? This is just stupid, Apdst, and I suspect you're doing this for the outrage [which I'm not, by the way, outraged, I've heard much worse, and it's virtually impossible to offend me; I'm simply stating that this 'chimp' business will be considered offensive to most...I just find it incredibly stupid and/or immature]. If we had an Asian candidate and you believed he was cowardly, and you called him the 'yellow man', waited for accusations of racism and then claimed you only called him that because he's a coward, it'd be the same thing. For every race, there are some words that you just don't say about it. I'd be saying the same thing if an Irish candidate was called a mick, an Italian [which I am, 50%, that is] a guinea, etc. etc. This is just basic, ever-day, common sense.

Did Obama misspeak when he said he voted against authorization for the war in Iraq, or was he just lieing?I think he was being misleading, like most politicians.

I don't like Obama...In fact, I really don't like Obama, you won't see me defending him very much.

What is indefensible is calling a black guy a monkey. Sorry. Actually I'm not.

Also, I find it interesting that you completely ignored my question: what does 'chimp' have to do with 'liberal'...What's the connection there?

-NC

[ECW]

Obama isn't in any position to make decisions, so we shall see. I predict that if Obama is elected, his miscalculations will cost the lives of millions. History will repeat itself like we've never seen before.

apdst meet Phil Gramm. (I remember how his prognostications fell flat on their face as well.)

Give Obama time. He'll exceed that in his first twelve months.

That's a bet I'd take if I thought for ONE SECOND you would pay up without whining.

No, I call him a chimp because he's a Liberal. I don't care what color his skin is, unlike the Libbos.

That just doesn't pass the smell test. Sorry.

[apdst]

The fact is, any criticism of Obama is going to be answered with accusations of racism. It's not going to matter what he's called.

Gotta problem with calling Obama a chimp? Then maybe you'all should have thought about that before you invented the term for Bush. What goes around comes around. Sucks ass, huh?

[apdst]

That's a bet I'd take if I thought for ONE SECOND you would pay up without whining.

Ok, what's on the table?

[NortheastCynic]

...like talking to a wall.

The fact is, any criticism of Obama is going to be answered with accusations of racism. It's not going to matter what he's called.
I agree that accusations or more often, insinuation of racism is common among Obama supporters when no racism is on display. And I hate that, I do. But calling a black man 'chimp' is racist...It's that simple.

Gotta problem with calling Obama a chimp?
No. Just wanted to let you know why others do...And why others have a valid beef with it. I don't care because A: I don't let stupid things like that annoy me and B: I never take any negative thing you say about anyone seriously.

Then maybe you'all should have thought about that before you invented the term for Bush. What goes around comes around. I didn't invent the term.

And for the third time, Apdst: What does the term 'chimp' have to do with 'liberal'? Not answering this question only validates claims of your racism. And if your term 'chimp' does, in fact, have to do with liberalism, this should be an easy question to answer.

-NC

[apdst]

Obama is half black. I'm speaking to the white half.

[NortheastCynic]

:madlaugh:

You can't do it.

You can't answer a simple question.

You:"I'm not calling Obama chimp cause he's black, it's cause he's liberal."
Me: "What does chimp have to do with liberal?"
You: Uh...Uh....He's half white, anything I call him will be called racist and what goes around comes around."
:lmao:

-NC

[apdst]

You can't do it.

You can't answer a simple question.

You:"I'm not calling Obama chimp cause he's black, it's cause he's liberal."
Me: "What does chimp have to do with liberal?"
You: Uh...Uh....He's half white, anything I call him will be called racist and what goes around comes around."

Calling Obama a chimp has as much to do with being a Liberal as calling Bush a chimp has to do with him being a Republican.

[NortheastCynic]

The President is not called 'chimp' because he's a Republican.

So therefore calling Obama a 'chimp' because he's a liberal is equally nonsensical.

So I'll ask again, why do you call Obama a 'chimp'?

-NC

[Alonzo]

Here's how Bush became a chimp:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2005/dec/13/usa

How did Obama become a chimp?

[apdst]

'How often does a leader of the free world come along who resembles a monkey in every particular?'

Twice, evidently.

[NortheastCynic]

Okay, so you are calling him a monkey based on appearance.

Just checking.

You're an idiot if you don't understand why some would be offended by you saying that a black dude looks like a monkey.

I'm glad I'm not one of the people who would be offended by that; but I do recognize that they exist.

-NC

[apdst]

You're an idiot if you don't understand why some would be offended by you saying that a black dude looks like a monkey.

You're an idiot for pushing a double standard. There. We're even.

[NortheastCynic]

Well then, now that it's just us idiots; why don't you explain just how I'm pushing a double standard?

I haven't expressed outrage about you calling a black man a monkey based on his appearance.

In fact, I've stated several times that what you're saying doesn't offend me.

I'm saying that calling a black man a monkey will raise the ire of some people.

And I'm NOT one of those people.

So what exactly are you talking about, Apdst, do you know?

-NC

[NortheastCynic]

In addition, if you read what I said carefully, you'd notice that what I said is that "you're an idiot IF you don't understand why some would be offended by you saying that a black dude looks like a monkey."

Do you understand why some would be offended by your claim that a black man looks like a monkey?

-NC

[ECW]

Here's how Bush became a chimp:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2005/dec/13/usa

How did Obama become a chimp?

The day he was born to a white mother having a black father. One drop is all it takes for that crowd.

[ECW]

That's a bet I'd take if I thought for ONE SECOND you would pay up without whining.Ok, what's on the table?

The claim you asserted that Obama would have 300 of those verbal errors in his first year as President (assuming he is actually elected). Trouble is that I have made enough bets online and in real life with rightwingers to know they don't pay up and when they do, they whine like underfed bitches about it.

Quite frankly, I'm not expecting you to stick around after the election so I'm not going to bother making the bet with you.