Senator Obama resigns Trinity membership

[Trish]

Senator & Mrs. Obama have resigned their memberships in Trinity United Church of Christ.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/24908975/

[micfranklin]

"I quit the church, are you all done bitching now? If not you can all go straight to hell."

Probably what he might be thinking.

[Alonzo]

If that's the case mic, what does that tell you? He'll toss aside his religious beliefs for politics? He'll toss aside his friends for politics?

He's just another politician is what it tells me.

[NortheastCynic]

Just in time Barrack!

Ha.

So which is it, should Obama have abandoned his Church [meaning it is a legitimate issue] or he shouldn't have [meaning he put politics over his faith]?

-NC

[micfranklin]

If that's the case mic, what does that tell you? He'll toss aside his religious beliefs for politics? He'll toss aside his friends for politics?

He's just another politician is what it tells me.

You know, as I sit here thinking about it, the only reason he quit was for the sake of the presidency and the race, so he kinda sold out his religion for politics. I'm sure he doesn't agree with what the pastors says about inventing AIDS to kill blacks or whatever (and I dare someone to find actual, cold-hard proof that he does, like maybe reading his books).

It's kind of a "damned if you do, damned if you don't" cliche. If he stayed with the church, he would've been criticized for remaining with a radical "racist" church. If he left everyone would criticize him for being a sellout.

And if I haven't said it already everything feels a little too convenient regarding this particular church, especially considering that Wright's "God Damn America" sermon wasn't just that.

[NortheastCynic]

You're exactly right, Mic. He was damned if he did and damned if he didn't. He could only mitigate the damage his past associations will do to him, not eliminate them. This was the right move in the long term.

-NC

[micfranklin]

You're exactly right, Mic. He was damned if he did and damned if he didn't. He could only mitigate the damage his past associations will do to him, not eliminate them. This was the right move in the long term.

-NC

You sure about the long term, because now everyone will see him as some guy who will ditch his church or any other association he grew up with when people start their bitching.

[NortheastCynic]

It's either that Mic, or he stays with them, more videos surface and the claims that he subscribes to the Church's ideology become validated. At least now he can point out the hypocrisy of people criticizing him for leaving the Church.

Either way, this is going to be an issue, but as I said, he mitigated the potential damage, I think.

-NC

[micfranklin]

And that reminds me, only certain videos from this church seem to surface and at just the right times too. So does TUCC always tape these controversial sermons for the media to cherrypick with?

[NortheastCynic]

Good question. It strikes me as odd that the Church continued to tape these sermons after the Wright video went public. It's as if they were trying to harm Obama. I don't get it either.

-NC

[AlanC]

You all don't get it do you. That is the church. That is their faith. It is based on black liberation and political activism. Its interwoven in their beliefs and impossible to seperate the two even if they wanted to.

Obama's trouble is just that. Its obvious what the political and social bent of the church is. He knew it when he joined 20 years ago and it is beyond belief that he didn't know it. There is no aspect of the church that is not intertwined with politics.

The guest pastor got a hundred grand from Obama when he was a state senator. He donated $1500 to Obama's campaign. Its impossible for Obama to serperate himself from that. He has spent the last 20 years developing those relationships.

His association with Ayres is the same thing. They didn't just pass in the night on some committee. Ayres hosted a fund raiser for Obama at his house. They are closely associated. Its who Obama is. It is his past. He can't divorce himself from it and the more he tries the worse he looks.

[dgun]

He'll toss aside his religious beliefs for politics? He'll toss aside his friends for politics?

He's just another politician is what it tells me.

Which is why you're voting for Hillary Clinton. lol.

[PostmodernProphet]

Good question. It strikes me as odd that the Church continued to tape these sermons after the Wright video went public. It's as if they were trying to harm Obama. I don't get it either.

-NC

no, they just blew his cover too early.....

[preservanation]

AC is right.
Black Liberation Theology is based on the belief that the white man is evil and is responsible for most of the black woes not just in this country but around the world, and must be gotten even with and made to pay for their sins.
The biggest difference between Black Liberation Theology and Farrakhan's Nation of Islam...is the name.

[Alonzo]

Which is why you're voting for Hillary Clinton. lol.

Because they're all politicians and she's the best one.

[preservanation]

Because they're all politicians and she's the best one.Hate to agree with Zo...but it happens.
I and a lot of other Republicans are breathing a huge sigh of relief that it looks like Hillary is done...she would have won the GE, IMO.
I think Obama will make a worse and much more dangerous POTUS than her, but he's also a worse candidate and has less of a chance in the GE against McCain...God willing.

[suralos]

Just in time Barrack!

Ha.

It's never too late for Obama because he's backed by concept-challenged liberal idealogues who get stoned on sound bytes and will never understand the significance of his combination of dense resistence to common sense and knee-jerk politics lifted from others as he finds expedient.

So which is it, should Obama have abandoned his Church [meaning it is a legitimate issue] ... [snip]? -NC

It seems to me that this can't be overemphasized, and it should be cause for great concern that blacks are constantly trying to "turn the page" and sweep under the rug the entire issue that belies a fundamental problem with Obama.

Because they're bored with it or something.

[suralos]

Obama actually blames the media for his decision to leave the church, playing on liberal sympathy with every calculating word that tumbles out of his mouth.
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0508/10724.html

[suedanim]

You all don't get it do you. That is the church. That is their faith. It is based on black liberation and political activism. Its interwoven in their beliefs and impossible to seperate the two even if they wanted to.

Obama's trouble is just that. Its obvious what the political and social bent of the church is. He knew it when he joined 20 years ago and it is beyond belief that he didn't know it. There is no aspect of the church that is not intertwined with politics.

The guest pastor got a hundred grand from Obama when he was a state senator. He donated $1500 to Obama's campaign. Its impossible for Obama to serperate himself from that. He has spent the last 20 years developing those relationships.

His association with Ayres is the same thing. They didn't just pass in the night on some committee. Ayres hosted a fund raiser for Obama at his house. They are closely associated. Its who Obama is. It is his past. He can't divorce himself from it and the more he tries the worse he looks.

You people kill me. Its one Obama bashing thread after another.. on the flimsiest of reasons. Its time to place focus on John McCain... and that I promise to do.

First... he didn't quit his religion, he resigned from that particular church. oh wow! Politicians do and say politically expedient shit! REVELATION... THIS is big news. Moving church memberships is common people, get a grip. John McCain changes his mind so often on critical issues its seriously insane and not a whimper from you people. This is exactly what impugns every thread begun to slam Obama. While claiming objectivity the utter lack of it is displayed in thread after thread after endless Obama bashing threads.

Second... Now that the cat is out of the bag that black people know white people have often oppressed them in this country and in response developed a way in which to speak specifically to the needs of black people.... you people act scared. No, its seriously odd and funny to me that you are so clueless that you would 1) not know that this is old as dirt 2) a valid response for oppressed people and 3) that you actually think black people are so unified in purpose they are organizing to take over with Barack leading the charge.

Yeah, thats the ticket. Barack Obama is a secret terrorist, secret Muslim and he's tricking people into voting for him so he can take over the world and then black people are gonna make fun of white people, boss 'em around and generally... take over.

:help:

[Alonzo]

Politicians do and say politically expedient shit! REVELATION... THIS is big news.

The whole point of Obama was that he wasn't a typical politician who did that sort of thing.

2) a valid response for oppressed people and

So if one is on the receiving end of bigotry they are justified in returning it?

[micfranklin]

This guy seems to think Obama is out to encourage all black people to get whitey.

http://www.geneclark.net/BarackHusseinObama.html

[Alonzo]

Guess that counters Wright's view that whitey deserves it.

[suedanim]

The whole point of Obama was that he wasn't a typical politician who did that sort of thing.

He says that and McCain claims he's a straight talker and its obvious he is NOT Clinton talks out the side of her neck regularly... And...?

imo... Obama comes a lot closer to being truthful about not being the usual than the other two.. But, thats jmo!


So if one is on the receiving end of bigotry they are justified in returning it?

Justified? I wouldn't use that word.

Bigotry is always wrong, always ignorant and always cruel. Recipients rarely know when it will happen, where its coming from. I already know... my family members and friends have been victims of it often enough.

[Alonzo]

He says that and McCain claims he's a straight talker and its obvious he is NOT Clinton talks out the side of her neck regularly... And...?

imo... Obama comes a lot closer to being truthful about not being the usual than the other two.. But, thats jmo!

I fail to see much difference in overall honesty.


Bigotry is always wrong, always ignorant and always cruel. Recipients rarely know when it will happen, where its coming from. I already know... my family members and friends have been victims of it often enough.

You claimed it was a valid response. I grew up around indian people and have been in many situations where it was made clear to me that I was an outsider, due to race, and this was done sometimes verbally. Other times I've felt perfectly accepted.

[suralos]

Liberals constantly rely on what they consider conservative hypocrisy to support their positions. All they are saying is, if they (conservative hypocrites) can do it, we can do it; or variously, anything you can do we can do in spades.

Please enlighten me how that is beneficial to anyone, not least of all the liberal fools heralding it.

Try abandoning that ridiculous frame of reference for awhile, and see how far you get.

[micfranklin]

God forbid the man starts flip-flopping every single issue a la John McCain.

[suedanim]

This guy seems to think Obama is out to encourage all black people to get whitey.

http://www.geneclark.net/BarackHusseinObama.html

This guy has claimed Obama is gay too. How and from where he gets his information is a guess. So now we are to believe Obama is many, many things.. a secret Muslim, secret terrorist, closet gay, going to organize black people to take over the world!!

Sounds like someone has taken Pinky and the Brain a bit too seriously.

[suralos]

God forbid the man starts flip-flopping every single issue a la John McCain.


Yeah, yeah, yeah ... the hypocrisy of it all, right?

For a kid with quite a bit of baggage already for such a short tenure, and ambition bigger than his stomach, Obama is doing plenty of flip-flopping -- his various, contradictory positions on Iraq being the most egregious, in my view.

[suedanim]

Yeah, yeah, yeah ... the hypocrisy of it all, right?

For a kid with quite a bit of baggage already for such a short tenure, and ambition bigger than his stomach, Obama is doing plenty of flip-flopping -- his various, contradictory positions on Iraq being the most egregious, in my view.

In your view... :shame: egregious? :madlaugh:

What contradictory positions would those be? LINKS!

What baggage? oh yeah, his preacher, his church, his past association with someone never convicted as a domestic terrorist 40 years ago, he's REALLY a closest gay, he's REALLY a Muslim disguising himself as a Christian... and, and....he's BLACK, so is his wife and kids. OMG! All in all.. he's just a really, really bad guy, cause, well, he's black and you know how all black people think alike and work togethor with that nasty black theology, while Hillary Clinton and John McCain are saints, never broke the law, never flipflopped and ALL of their associations, past and present are squeaky clean.... above reproach.

We get it. Some of you hate the guy, in fact are TERRIFIED the big black man is coming to GETCHA! Your greatest fear realized. And at the slightest hint...post a thread in which the THUNDER from stomping feet RUNNNG to post a big AMEN is heard around the internet.

Take home message ad nauseum ... Obama is a danger to the WORLD, but not John rage-syndrome, can't remember shit, flip-flopping liar McCain.

Gotcha.

[4Reaganomics]

It is sad that you break everything down to race Suedanim. From a campaign that says race is not an issue, his supporters sure want to make it an issue.

"Big Black Man" coming to get us?

Maybe we just disagree with the message of his church and his policies. For you to put forth this Pfleger type speech filled with race only further contributes to the problem with society. We are at a point where Hillary supporters are racist and McCain supporters are racist and anyone who doesn't support Obama is a racist.

I personally have a problem with the theory that we are afraid of a black man. Is it beyond the realm of possibility that we judge him "on the content of his character" like Dr. King said?

[Muser]

It is sad that you break everything down to race Suedanim. From a campaign that says race is not an issue, his supporters sure want to make it an issue.

"Big Black Man" coming to get us?

Maybe we just disagree with the message of his church and his policies. For you to put forth this Pfleger type speech filled with race only further contributes to the problem with society. We are at a point where Hillary supporters are racist and McCain supporters are racist and anyone who doesn't support Obama is a racist.

I personally have a problem with the theory that we are afraid of a black man. Is it beyond the realm of possibility that we judge him "on the content of his character" like Dr. King said?

Thank you!!!! :clapper:

[Alonzo]

In your view... egregious?

What contradictory positions would those be? LINKS!

What baggage? oh yeah, his preacher, his church, his past association with someone never convicted as a domestic terrorist 40 years ago, he's REALLY a closest gay, he's REALLY a Muslim disguising himself as a Christian... and, and....he's BLACK, so is his wife and kids. OMG! All in all.. he's just a really, really bad guy, cause, well, he's black and you know how all black people think alike and work togethor with that nasty black theology, while Hillary Clinton and John McCain are saints, never broke the law, never flipflopped and ALL of their associations, past and present are squeaky clean.... above reproach.

We get it. Some of you hate the guy, in fact are TERRIFIED the big black man is coming to GETCHA! Your greatest fear realized. And at the slightest hint...post a thread in which the THUNDER from stomping feet RUNNNG to post a big AMEN is heard around the internet.

Take home message ad nauseum ... Obama is a danger to the WORLD, but not John rage-syndrome, can't remember shit, flip-flopping liar McCain.

Denial at it's finest. You're even arguing over whether ayer's was a terrorist when he himself admits to building bombs and helping to bomb places. Hell, you'd probably argue with Ayer's himself over it.

Oh, and I like how you hinted that Clinton and McCain supporters were just big ol' racist afraid of black people. Nice touch!

[suedanim]

It is sad that you break everything down to race Suedanim. From a campaign that says race is not an issue, his supporters sure want to make it an issue.

"Big Black Man" coming to get us?

Maybe we just disagree with the message of his church and his policies. For you to put forth this Pfleger type speech filled with race only further contributes to the problem with society. We are at a point where Hillary supporters are racist and McCain supporters are racist and anyone who doesn't support Obama is a racist.

I personally have a problem with the theory that we are afraid of a black man. Is it beyond the realm of possibility that we judge him "on the content of his character" like Dr. King said?


I didn't bring up race. You people do constantly and I am addressing it. It isn't his supporters starting thread after bashing thread...

You don't JUST disagree on the message. You call the messengers racists, the church racist, the members...racist, black liberation theology.. racist. RACE is a major issue for conservatives... and it is insinuated within the accusation he is secretly Muslim to secretly a terrorist to black liberation theology... and about every other talking point you people use for ammunition.

Conservatives bring it up regularly and start whining when challenged on it. To challenge it is to have brought it up.. one too many times. IF you actually USED the arguments you now make above.. I might have a different reaction. Don't make me search quotes, threads and such.

You personally have a problem being confronted on the fact that you ARE judging him based on his associations with either pastors or Ayers or the school he attended before the age of 10.... whatever.

I'll tell you whats sad.... that you and yours can dish it out but you can't take it, that your duplicity is showing.

On second thought... I think I WILL do a little research on this site and we will see just WHO uses the racist accusation, racism excuse more often.

[micfranklin]

This guy has claimed Obama is gay too. How and from where he gets his information is a guess. So now we are to believe Obama is many, many things.. a secret Muslim, secret terrorist, closet gay, going to organize black people to take over the world!!

Sounds like someone has taken Pinky and the Brain a bit too seriously.

I'd like to know if there's a clip around of him saying he was gay, because he seems like just another hate-mongerer to me.

[suralos]

In your view... egregious?

What contradictory positions would those be? LINKS! Gotcha.

Obama removed from his official web site his position on Iraq due to glaringly contradictory elements that made him look like a flip-flopping fish out of water. The reason is because, in fact, he has deferred to the sentiment of Congress going into Iraq before he arrived in Congress, and he maintains that politically popular concensus to this day. There is nothing about him that doesn't squiggle and squirm like squishy gelatin when he's challenged.

He hasn't said anything that someone else, especially Clinton, hasn't already proposed.

Link: Google. Fetch.

Your avatar reminds me of a jellyfish that killed a guy in the water off Atlantic City. He was a Libertarian-leaning Republican.

[preservanation]

You don't JUST disagree on the message. You call the messengers racists, the church racist, the members...My interpretation of this issue is all based on what the pastors in Obama's church said.
Is pointing out racism, racism in itself?
If so...we're doomed.

Maybe I can understand this better, suedanim, if you can answere one question please.
"Do you consider what was said by Wright and Pfleger racist in any way?

This will help me understand your argument better.
Thank you.

[micfranklin]

I'm thinking about the issue again and I feel that even if he dropped the church when the first sermon was aired, he'd still be facing the same criticism now.

[suedanim]

My interpretation of this issue is all based on what the pastors in Obama's church said.
Is pointing out racism, racism in itself?
If so...we're doomed.

Maybe I can understand this better, suedanim, if you can answere one question please.
"Do you consider what was said by Wright and Pfleger racist in any way?

This will help me understand your argument better.
Thank you.

First... I'd rather discuss it in a seperate thread, different forum, dedicated to that topic. You start it, I'll join it. And if you lay it down in the way in which you did above, it allows me to respond without getting my hackles up.

Second.. long story short.. Both said inflammatory, rude and theatrical stuff. I think the term racist is thrown out there when ignorant works better for me, in this case, though I don't doubt some racist stuff was said. Racism pervades American society, from reverse to intraracism and includes racism between minority groups. The good news things are better than they were 40 years ago when I was a teenager.

BUT... in the case of Wright.. I'd have to look at it again.. in context.. He said a LOT of stuff. Preachers have NO PLACE in politics. So right out of the gate, I have an attitude JUST because a bunch of preachers are being given air time...looped again and again AND speaking on political topics IN church.

Ministers, imo, should be ministering the word of God... not political animals. JMO!

In regards to the white priest's comment.. he used the word... entitled.. Some whites may view that as racist... It isn't. I'm willing to explore white entitlement aka white privilege in that other thread I suggested. But, I won't go there unless parameters for discussion are laid down in the opening thread.

[Pookie]

Obama didn't chuck his religious beliefs. He chucked that particular church because of that idiot pastor.
He'll join another church, you all wait and see. He just needed to keep that moron out of his inner circle or whatever.
That idiot thought he could rise to fame by exploiting Obama.
He's a joke, and Obama was smart to get out.
NOW what's the Rev. Wright gonna do?
And I will bet many parishioners will follow suit.
Let's see what happens.
Purrs,
Pookie

[NortheastCynic]

Denial at it's finest. You're even arguing over whether ayer's was a terrorist when he himself admits to building bombs and helping to bomb places. Hell, you'd probably argue with Ayer's himself over it.

Oh, and I like how you hinted that Clinton and McCain supporters were just big ol' racist afraid of black people. Nice touch!
We are all racists, Zo. We hate black people, happy children and laugh when old people fall.
We are the worst kinds of excuses for humanity the world has or will ever see.

Obama is our only hope.

Through His infinite wisdom and infallible perfection, and only through His infinite wisdom and infallible perfection can we be saved.

Obama be praised :worship:.

:madlaugh:

I hate John McCain, but I will laugh for a very long time after he wins this election.

-NC

[micfranklin]

Obama didn't chuck his religious beliefs. He chucked that particular church because of that idiot pastor.
He'll join another church, you all wait and see. He just needed to keep that moron out of his inner circle or whatever.
That idiot thought he could rise to fame by exploiting Obama.
He's a joke, and Obama was smart to get out.
NOW what's the Rev. Wright gonna do?
And I will bet many parishioners will follow suit.
Let's see what happens.
Purrs,
Pookie

The church, especially Wright, did give Obama a jump start to his political career. What about that?

[Pookie]

True. But the pastor overstepped his bounds and made too many ridiculous comments that hurt Obama.
So tell me, what's up with that? Sure, maybe all that is true, but this goon was riding on Obama's coattails and he made a bad mistake doing that.
To me, if you give a person a jump start, you don't go making a total ass out of yourself. You shut the hell up and let the person go with the career. It's HIS, Obama's career. Wright is an idiot.
Purrs,
Pookie

[lily]

When the story came out about some visiting preacher making some stupid remarks in church and of course they had to have the video for back up, the first thing that came to mind was.......is there some kind of list? I mean there has to be, no one ever heard of Wright or this visiting Catholic priest before......it seems they now all want to speak at that church, make their statements and get some TV time.......there has got to be a waiting list.

As for Obama changing churches.........what's the big deal? I doubt he's been in that church since he moved to Washington anyway......what really gets me though is I can't remember religion or even what church someone belonged to being a big deal since Kennedy ran.

I also want to touch a bit on the rascist term being thrown back and forth......he's the first Black to ever run seriously.........of course race is going to be an issue. People here, in the media or in public life saying it's not an issue are lying to themselves.

[micfranklin]

When the story came out about some visiting preacher making some stupid remarks in church and of course they had to have the video for back up, the first thing that came to mind was.......is there some kind of list? I mean there has to be, no one ever heard of Wright or this visiting Catholic priest before......it seems they now all want to speak at that church, make their statements and get some TV time.......there has got to be a waiting list.

I keep saying it, the fact that all these videos of the bad material keep coming up in the media is just all too coincidential, too well-played out.

[suralos]

I keep saying it, the fact that all these videos of the bad material keep coming up in the media is just all too coincidential, too well-played out.

You don't keep dredging up "bad material" unless there's a mutha load of "bad material" to be dredged up.

No, actually it's a white conspiracy to discredit and denigrate black degeneration of an entire civilization.

[lauren]

I keep saying it, the fact that all these videos of the bad material keep coming up in the media is just all too coincidential, too well-played out.

Obama is favored by the media. Things like what Wright said couldn't be overlooked. It's not some evil conspiracy by the media.

[4Reaganomics]

I still do not understand the position that brining up Wright's racist comments means that we are afraid of the color of Obama's skin.

I don't want a presidential candidate attending a church that produces white hate, black hate, or any other hate based on race.

Being against racism is somehow seen as Obama supporters as actually being racists.

I would simply like to be able to criticize the man without being accused of being afraid of a black president or envoking fear in people over having a black president.

If McCain was black and Obama was white, I'd still support McCain

[NortheastCynic]

I still do not understand the position that brining up Wright's racist comments means that we are afraid of the color of Obama's skin.It doesn't. The argument that states 'attacking Trinity Church in Chicago is attacking the black church in general' is absurd and often made by who? White people. This campaign thing is better than comedy.:clapper:

Major criticisms of Obama will be countered by subtle and some not-so-subtle implications of racism. That's how it works.

-NC

[micfranklin]

Obama is favored by the media. Things like what Wright said couldn't be overlooked. It's not some evil conspiracy by the media.

He's favored maybe, but anything even remotely negative about him gets blown up by the media, and really quickly too, Wright not being the first time.

[Alonzo]

It doesn't. The argument that states 'attacking Trinity Church in Chicago is attacking the black church in general' is absurd and often made by who? White people. This campaign thing is better than comedy.:clapper:

Major criticisms of Obama will be countered by subtle and some not-so-subtle implications of racism. That's how it works.

-NC

I can attest to that. At least two different posters seemed on the verge of calling me racist for favoring Hillary over Obama, and I think if I wasn't admin the line between suggest and outright accuse me of racism would have been crossed. One even denounced me as a Karl Rove supporting republican. Never mind the fact that I've repeatedly said I'd vote for Obama if it's Obama vs. McCain, the fact that I'm not fawning over Obama is damning enough. .

[NortheastCynic]

I hear you, Zo. And what makes it worse is that some who do it are aware that coming right out and saying, "you're a racist" would be shameless, so they do it subtly...That's what I cannot tolerate.

-NC

[lauren]

He's favored maybe, but anything even remotely negative about him gets blown up by the media, and really quickly too, Wright not being the first time.

Yes, but any mistake made by any of the canadites is going to appear somewhere in the news 'blown up'.

[apdst]

"I quit the church, are you all done bitching now? If not you can all go straight to hell."

He's thinking, "I better bail, before I look like an even bigger asshole than I already do"

[micfranklin]

He's thinking, "I better bail, before I look like an even bigger asshole than I already do"

Like I said he was screwed either way but if he never went to church he wouldn't be the one with the nomination.

[apdst]

Like I said he was screwed either way

How was he screwed either way?

[preservanation]

Pfleger removed


The Chicago cardinal has removed Father Michael Pfleger, at least temporarily, from his duties at St. Sabina parish there, the Sun-Times reported.

He's a popular, well-known figure in Chicago, so this story — triggered by his attacks on Hillary Clinton from a protestant pulpit — probably isn't over. LINK (http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0608/Pfleger_removed.html)
Way to take a bullet for the team...you foolish man.

[micfranklin]

How was he screwed either way?

He stays with the church, people bitch about his ties to a racist pastor in a racist church.

He leaves the church, people bitch about him ditching his religion and friends, most notably the man (Wright) who gave him a head start in the first place, for politics.

He never attended the church at all, he wouldn't be where he is now.